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Thread: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

  1. #1561

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmen View Post
    Have anyone tried Spellseeker? Im gonna try the oneoff, seems like a good fit. Gets manipulate fate, push, Brainstorm and sideboard cards like surgical. And is good on a chain to griffins!
    Someone just t8 dual for duels with 2x spellseeker in food chain -- seems like it might have legs

  2. #1562

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    Someone just t8 dual for duels with 2x spellseeker in food chain -- seems like it might have legs
    Could you show us the list with the 2 Spellseeker please ?

  3. #1563

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo


  4. #1564

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    6/10/2018 SCGCON Legacy Classic Top 4 Tournament Report:

    Decklist: http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/121672

    Round 1 - Czech Pile

    I lost the die roll (never lucky), open with gemstone caverns (always lucky), and proceed to exile a tropical island (not good at magic) which leaves me with forest and gemstone caverns as my 2 lands to start. Brainstorm doesn't find me a source to cast baleful strix. I decay his DRS and then get my hand ripped by hymn then snapcaster hymn because I exiled the tropical island and couldn't cast all the strixes I drew.

    SB In: Needle (for JTMS), Toxic, Liliana, Surgical; sometimes add fluster/brutality/2nd needle
    SB Out: Tidespout, Emrakul, 2 Fow; sometimes take out all Fow and both shardless if adding fluster

    Game 2 is a grind that I think I'm going to lose. He has a board of liliana last hope, 5/6 goyf, leovold, DRS, and strix to my food chain + scourge + 1 griffin. I cannot pressure liliana at all which is ticking up to my doom (on scourge), and I cannot brainstorm. I fall from 17 to 12 because of goyf. And then I topdeck Toxic Deluge. I exile my griffin, cast Toxic to wipe his board and go to 6, then replay my exiled dudes. Game won.

    Game 3 starts with a mull to 6. Scry spellseeker to the top, which later finds me manipulate fate to undo the mull. It is another grindy game where we go to turns, where traverse gets hostage taker to take DRS for a 2 deathrite swing. I present lethal with DRS and griffin to his JTMS and hand of 3 cards. I ask for concession, he refuses, says he has removal plus jace but puts his hand into library, so who knows? It is round 1 and he has every right to take the draw; plus the draw bracket favors me anyway.

    0-0-1

    Round 2 - Belcher

    So I get paired up, so much for draw bracket, right? It's Belcher! His game 1 hand is t1 tons of goblins despite my Force of Will to stop mana chain. I lose.

    SB In: 13 Cards (everything but cage and liliana)
    SB Out: 3 Decay, Cut, 4 Chain, Emrakul, Tidespout, 2 Shardless, Forest on Draw/Gemstone on Play

    Game 2 I mull to 5 and have Fluster, Fow, Blue Card, Needle, Swamp. Scry a Delta to the top. I Start with needle on belcher and pass, praying for a not goblins kill through force. He doesn't go off. I get fluster up now and eventually find a win con to kill.

    Game 3 he goes for a t1 kill. I force his mana to strand him with 2 cards in hand. I follow up with a premature thoughtseize out of curiosity, seeing burning wish and belcher, so I take wish. I eventually draw needle, plague, and toxic to cover all bases, with another fluster/force too! Can't complain about the luck.

    1-0-1

    Round 3 - Czech Pile

    Another match up. Well I might not get to grind versus Czech Pile all day but I'll gladly take the improved tiebreakers. Turns out it was Czech Pile anyway.

    I don't remember much from this match, other than me winning games 1 and 3 due to being able to do the food chain grind thing. Game 2 I almost beat a JTMS on an empty board, but alas it was not meant to be. (SB similar to prior).

    2-0-1

    Round 4 - Czech Pile

    Now in the draw bracket, it is another Czech Pile. He is a gracious opponent and we have some grindy but fun and swingy games. I win game 1 on the power of manipulate fate plus deathrite shaman.

    Game 2 I felt so far ahead due to my board state of good cards, being able to again traverse for hostage taker to go for a 2 deathrite swing. But he is able to czech pile grind me out of DRS and present his own DRS for lethal. I dealt with 1 goyf but the 2nd one was too big.

    Game 3 started with only 10 minutes left, so I boarded a tidespout back in for a combo chance. We play fast, I go on the beats and present both DRS and griffin in turns to be 1 turn of short of lethal (2 if he forces one). He has force + snapcaster (no removal or draw spells in GY) when I cast those cards and he chose to not force after some decisions. I cannot kill him but ask for concession due to lethal board. He agrees, as a 2nd draw for both of us makes the road much tougher.

    3-0-1

    Round 5 - Grixis Delver

    Another draw bracket opponent with underground seas... this time Grixis Delver. I am firmly in control all 3 games, as I am able to kill off threats and resolve manipulate fate, playing around daze and all the delver-y things. Game 2 he steals back because of a topdecked bolt when I had lethal on following turn. Game 3 he has little pressure and concedes to my 4th land drop after resolving manipulate fate. Traverse for tombstalker was excellent in this matchup.

    SB In: 2 Surgical, 2 Brutality, Toxic, Plague, Liliana
    SB Out: Emrakul, Tidespout, Spellseeker, Hostage, Chain, 2 Shardless

    4-0-1

    Round 6 - Grixis Delver

    We do the math. Because of all the draws that happened, we now have a double win and in. We both know what we are on based on having sat next to each other. Despite losing the die roll, I end up winning both games on the draw. Same thing as prior matchup in playing carefully to not get delver'd. Win with close margins, though only one game would've been stolen with a top deck bolt.

    5-0-1

    Round 7 - (Monored Prison, didn't know until top 8)

    Draw to lock top8 at likely 2nd-5th seed! (It was 3rd seed)

    5-0-2

    Quarterfinals - Grixis Delver

    High seed means I'm on the play, yay! I deal with all the threats, don't let the deck do delver-y things. Start casting phantom monsters each turn to race TNN, which it does win.

    Game 2 on the draw, I am lucky! Open Gemstone Caverns and pitch a land with plenty more in hand. I answer turn 1 delver with my turn 1 decay. Turn 2 delver meets the same fate. I am able to brutality a young pyro, but not after brainstorm makes a token. I get a strix down but won't trade it off for the token. That token gets in for 4 turns as we rebuild our hands, putting me to 14. I answer TNN with traverse for tombstalker. Race won. DRS and ground threat ends it even faster.

    6-0-2

    Semifinals - Grixis Delver (Eventual Champion)

    I am on the play in both games, but lightning bolt decides the race both times. Fun matches. It's only a matter of time until delver deck finally does delver-y things to me.

    However, game 2 does present a opportunity that I shied away from that may have caused me the game. I am facing a delver and DRS with slight pressure due to my blockers. I have a toxic deluge that my opponent knows about from a prior probe. By the time I got the mana to cast it, my opponent had already brainstorm'd and ponder'd multiple times. My hand is force of will and toxic deluge. Only 4 lands in play. I figured Daze was boarded out, but I had to play around FoW and spell pierce. I decide to wait until another blue card as the pressure was not high. He rips a therapy to take my Deluge and I die to his eventual removal on my blockers. Casting Deluge would've resolved, but my board was poor enough that had it been countered I lose. I'm not sure what the right play was here, perhaps I was baited by my own FoW (drew 3 straight non-blue, non-land cards as land allows me to cover spell pierce).

    6-1-2

    Parting Words/Thoughts on the New Spice:
    1) Traverse is insane and easy to get delirium in this deck. I want to try a 2nd but the person who gave me the tech said he tried 2 and it was clunky. I used it to both get basics to hit my land drops and to get tombstalker/hostage taker. Didn't use it much to get Griffin/Emrakul/Tidespout though. Spellseeker was boarded out 50% of the time (not sure if that was correct). I did get Leovold once versus Czech to cause a concession if I recall correctly.
    2) Spellseeker felt good and powerful. I was unsure if boarding it out versus grixis delver was correct, as there became times where I did have the mana to use it. Passed the approval of this tech to the guy who gave me Traverse tech (he promptly top 4'd with 2x spellseeker in a duals event). We discussed that this card may possibly take over shardless for the value spot, allowing for ballista's return!
    3) Gemstone Caverns is cute, can be very good when it is good. Not sure if a Hierarch on Ponder is better instead, as I really just want 19.5 lands. But someone (or actually all of my car) said just do it when I asked if I should, so I did! I've been known to run Karakas as land #20, so this isn't much different.
    4) Back to the laboratory to see what else I brew up next. Unfortunately, I am also moving and leaving the rich East Coast Legacy scene, so I don't know when I will get to play a major tournament next. Maybe I'll be able to get time off to attend GP Richmond later in the year?
    5) Not quite varied opponents, so more testing is required.
    Last edited by cosmosis; 06-20-2018 at 12:51 PM.

  5. #1565

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Great report! Keep brewing and winning with spicy list, Cosmo

  6. #1566

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Has anyone ever tried Bant Food Chain? Gives access to Hierarch, maybe Thalia with shardless main deck, and STPS. Plus added color of white for board options and disruption. With Grixis delver big right now, a path in the board seems like it would be good. I have played BUG Food Chain for a while, with and without Walking Ballista. Just wanted to switch things up and see if the deck can still function. Also makes me feel like we would b able to grind a bit better with a 4/4 griffin off of Hierarch instead of a 3/3. Any ideas or suggestions would b appreciated.

  7. #1567

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    I did for a while, but found DRS and Strix were too good to replace. Here's the last list I tested, I was trying out a mini-Legendary package:

    3 Misthollow Griffin
    3 Walking Ballista
    1 Eternal Scourge
    1 Trinket Mage
    1 Vendilion Clique
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Venser, Shaper Savant

    4 Food Chain
    1 Relic of Progenitus

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Manipulate Fate
    4 Ponder

    1 Forest
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tundra
    1 Plains
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Windswept Heath
    1 Karakas

    Sideboard:
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 Rest in Peace
    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Disenchant
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    1 Council's Judgment


    I don't think switching colors is the right way to beat Grixis Delver. As discussed in the past, I think the BUG version of FC is very favored vs them already.

  8. #1568

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    That's exactly the line I was thinking of with Bant. But playing BUG beforehand I get where you are coming from with Baleful and DRS. I don't know if spalishing white would help with Czech, but for Miracles and Grixis we are already pretty good. I'm still tinkering with ideas just for fun at FNM, but as soon as I have a list and results I will post them.

  9. #1569

  10. #1570

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Oh that's sweet! I love having stoneforge in there. As we talked about before, non DRS build would have more trouble against Grixis. With SOFI I think it would help us out a lot. I dig the list. Now with the addition of a mini stoneforge package we start doing a bit of both things. You can treat it as just another threat or a post board option when you board out Food Chain.

  11. #1571

    [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Eventhough RIP is Sweet with griffins i would hesitate to run not only 4 do nothing enchantments but 6.
    If DRS got banned my guess is that all kinds of combo plus Canadian Threshold-eque delver will become stronger leaving food chain in a worse position, due to less midrange and lands to pray upon.

  12. #1572

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Deathrite shaman and Gitaxian probe are now banned.

    For me i'll stay BUG, with the same list, testing 4 Birds of Paradise instead of 4 DRS

  13. #1573

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    4 birds is too much. DRS was important because the stuff it did next to ramp. It was good all stages of game. BoP is a bad topdeck. I think we can play 3 max.

    I'll be trying:

    -4 drs
    -1 angler

    +2 bop
    +1 relic
    +2 Tombstalker

    Relic was great before, now it's gonna be better than ever and we're one of the few decks that can get crazy value out of it. Maybe we even want 3. Also might again be time to think about Thoughtseize in the maindeck.

  14. #1574

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    4 birds is too much. DRS was important because the stuff it did next to ramp. It was good all stages of game. BoP is a bad topdeck. I think we can play 3 max.

    I'll be trying:

    -4 drs
    -1 angler

    +2 bop
    +1 relic
    +2 Tombstalker

    Relic was great before, now it's gonna be better than ever and we're one of the few decks that can get crazy value out of it. Maybe we even want 3. Also might again be time to think about Thoughtseize in the maindeck.
    I have already my Relic MD

    Tombstalker can be hard to cast with BB nope ?

  15. #1575

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by grokh View Post
    I have already my Relic MD

    Tombstalker can be hard to cast with BB nope ?
    I'm going from 1 relic to 2 MD. I'd love to play more but don't want to overkill. GY decks are gonna come out the woodworks. Threshold is back.

    BB is harder, yes, but I was playing Angler to beat other Anglers. Now that there'll be less, I want a better threat. Current lists already play stalker just fine.

    Other question to you Food Chainers is do we switch up our manabase? I'm not sure if 10 fetches are necessary anymore (dont need the drs food, and they're now stifle targets), and I kind of want to go back up to 20 lands. Maybe like:

    3 Delta
    3 Misty
    3 Verdant
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest
    2 Bayou
    2 Trop
    2 U Sea
    1 Volrath's Stronghold (or 7th dual/5th basic?)

  16. #1576

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    I'm going from 1 relic to 2 MD. I'd love to play more but don't want to overkill. GY decks are gonna come out the woodworks. Threshold is back.

    BB is harder, yes, but I was playing Angler to beat other Anglers. Now that there'll be less, I want a better threat. Current lists already play stalker just fine.

    Other question to you Food Chainers is do we switch up our manabase? I'm not sure if 10 fetches are necessary anymore (dont need the drs food, and they're now stifle targets), and I kind of want to go back up to 20 lands. Maybe like:

    3 Delta
    3 Misty
    3 Verdant
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Forest
    2 Bayou
    2 Trop
    2 U Sea
    1 Volrath's Stronghold (or 7th dual/5th basic?)
    What about this list :
    http://www.lotusnoir.info/magic/decks/bug-food-chain/

  17. #1577

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by grokh View Post
    There's only relic and 2 sb Surgicals to deal with all GY stuff in the format. That's not enough IMO.

    I think you're a bit glutted on 3-drops.

    I forgot to mention Scavenging Ooze before, I think we should def be playing 1 main (and maybe 1 more sb).

  18. #1578

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    There's only relic and 2 sb Surgicals to deal with all GY stuff in the format. That's not enough IMO.

    I think you're a bit glutted on 3-drops.

    I forgot to mention Scavenging Ooze before, I think we should def be playing 1 main (and maybe 1 more sb).
    -1 Spellseeker + 1 Ooze

    updated

  19. #1579

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    After the DRS ban yesterday I started to play around with 4 Veteran Explorer and 4 Cabal Therapy, so basically the NicFit pieces.
    It worked really well online in the ~20 games in played against non DS non Probe decks. It even allows T3 Combo and the discard really helps against combo.
    Still working on a more tuned list, currently I am not playing much GY-Hate in the MD (1 Relic with 1 Trinket Mage) but of course it is hard to tune a list without actually knowing the meta.

    I am certainly not saying this is the way to go, but it is interesting to play and feels very consistent. So if someone is interested in also trying it, be my guest.

  20. #1580

    Re: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

    I followed this link ad i made a little change for my personal tastes:


    3 Misthollow Griffin
    3 Walking Ballista
    1 Eternal Scourge
    1 Trinket Mage
    4 Baleful Strix
    4 Birds of Paradise
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

    4 Food Chain
    1 Relic of Progenitus

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Manipulate Fate
    3 Ponder
    1 Murderous Cut or 1 Gurmag Angler

    1 Forest
    1 Swamp
    2 Island
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Bayou
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Verdant Catacombs


    Sideboard:
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Dread of Night
    1 To the Slaughter
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Thougtseize


    I like this configuration of mana because i want, more than before, start with green mana. I need also a lot of green source of mana for my Scooze. 8 fetches to pic up our Swamp against decks with Wasteland or Blood Moon.
    I think BUG version is still playable.

    Bye

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