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Thread: [Deck] Food Chain Combo

  1. #21

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by grokh View Post
    My Food chain altered in Winter mode was refused by a Head judge on a BIG event, so i asked the alterator to do it again but with not so much snow, here's the new Food chain Winter :

    Did he say why it was refused? That's kinda odd that a bit of snow would be the reason!
    “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
    - Albert Einstein

  2. #22

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by grokh View Post
    Hi,

    As you asked here are my 4 Seasons Food chain alters :


    This is the Food chain on bottom right of this pic which was refused, not the new one !

  3. #23

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Bizarre. Hmm, glad you were able to replace it so quickly with such a beauty (:
    “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle".
    - Albert Einstein

  4. #24

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Obould View Post
    Hi, I played yesterday with my food chain deck in a GPTrial Paris Legacy-event in a local store. 21 players showed up and we played 5 rounds of swiss and top8. I went 3-1-1 with the following list and was 3rd after the swiss and made myself to the tops.

    Lands
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wooded Foothills
    1 Dryad Arbor
    2 Ancient Tomb
    2 Forest
    2 Island

    Creatures
    3 Misthollow Griffin
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3 Fierce Empath
    1 AEthersnipe
    1 Griselbrand
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Progenitus
    2 Birds of Paradise

    Spells
    4 Food Chain
    4 Force of Will
    2 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Misdirection
    4 Natural Order
    3 Manipulate Fate

    Sideboard
    3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Wipe Away
    4 Show and Tell
    2 Omniscience
    1 Empyrial Archangel
    1 Relic of Progenitus

    R1 vs. BUGstill 2-1
    R2 vs. Affinity 2-1
    R3 vs. UR-delver 1-2
    R4 vs UWR-delver 2-1
    R5 vs. BUG id (played for fun and I won 3-0)

    Top8 R1 vs. another UR-delver 0-2
    Hi Obould,

    I played exactly your list to Grand Prix Paris this week-end.

    R1 : Lose 1-2 against Painter
    R2 : Win 2-1 against UB Reanimator
    R3 : Lose 1-2 against TES
    R4 : Draw 1-1 against a kinda Stoneblade packing True-name Nemesis, Knight of the reliquary, Scavenging ooze ...
    R5 : Win against no opponent, then test and win 2-0 against another player having no opponent playing Zombardment

    I dropped after R5 cos i could reach only 19 pts and i needed 21 pts for going on the 2nd day.

    Here are my thoughts :
    ++ :
    - The maindeck is just awesome, i think i'll make no changes, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman or with 3 Ancient tomb
    - Show and tell transformal SB is just awesome too !
    - Against Reanimator : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 then Show and tell on AEthersnipe (in case he would put something) on turn 3

    -- :
    - You real need to pray when playing against Storm.deck for touching your lone Spell pierce in SB
    - Same when need to touch one of your 3 SB-pieces against Grave.deck
    - Painter who puts Blood moon + Ensnaring bridge + Painter's servant + Grindstone and totally locks me
    - Against TES : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 and seeing him combo off on his turn 2 ...

    So here are my ideas for improve the SB :
    1) Play Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in your SB, you can
    - fetch it with Fierce empath then cast it with Food chain
    - tutor it with Natural Order
    - get it into play with Show and tell
    - costs almost nothing to buy, real cheap solution

    And it's a real solution against Storm.decks, maybe combo.decks in general !

    2) Play Terastodon in your SB, for same reasons as Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, and you can destroy lots of permanents able to lock you, and you can go for 1 9/9 and 3 3/3 Elephant tokens if needed by destroying your own lands if needed.

    3) For graveyard hates, I thought to play :
    - 1 Savannah + 2 Rest in peace for grave.decks but maybe ?
    - 1 Scavenging Ooze you could tutor with Natural order maybe ?

    On the MD, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman for being better against grave.decks, or 3 Ancient tomb to go faster.

    Tell me your thoughts about it Obould !

    Thank you
    Last edited by grokh; 02-17-2014 at 02:45 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Hello there,

    I have not put that deck together on paper yet but I have half the cards and goldfished a bit with it online. It is definitely in my queue of decks for the legacy local events.

    Does any one have any experience on how it fares against Pox? There is quite some in my meta. I would expect that once you have a Food Chain on the table, you should be safe getting off in one turn and avoiding their sorcery-speed sac' effects since you get Emrakul's extra turn to swing. Then I guess bringing the SnT plan after boarding will throw off their hate/discard/extirpate. Anything else to think about?

    Has there been any thoughts around playing cards like Venser, Shaper Savant, Draining Whelk, Mystic snake / i.e. counterspells that could be played off Food chain? I would think they could prove useful when going for the half/non-combo described in the beginning of the thread.

    Any thoughts about Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir to do some Food chain shenanigans in the opponent's turn? Chomp block -> Exile Misthollow griffin to Food chain -> Cast it immediately again without waiting next turn/summoning sickness, perhaps?

  6. #26

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by grokh View Post
    Hi Obould,

    I played exactly your list to Grand Prix Paris this week-end.

    R1 : Lose 1-2 against Painter
    R2 : Win 2-1 against UB Reanimator
    R3 : Lose 1-2 against TES
    R4 : Draw 1-1 against a kinda Stoneblade packing True-name Nemesis, Knight of the reliquary, Scavenging ooze ...
    R5 : Win against no opponent, then test and win 2-0 against another player having no opponent playing Zombardment

    I dropped after R5 cos i could reach only 19 pts and i needed 21 pts for going on the 2nd day.

    Here are my thoughts :
    ++ :
    - The maindeck is just awesome, i think i'll make no changes, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman or with 3 Ancient tomb
    - Show and tell transformal SB is just awesome too !
    - Against Reanimator : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 then Show and tell on AEthersnipe (in case he would put something) on turn 3

    -- :
    - You real need to pray when playing against Storm.deck for touching your lone Spell pierce in SB
    - Same when need to touch one of your 3 SB-pieces against Grave.deck
    - Painter who puts Blood moon + Ensnaring bridge + Painter's servant + Grindstone and totally locks me
    - Against TES : Casting Natural order on Progenitus on turn 2 and seeing him combo off on his turn 2 ...

    So here are my ideas for improve the SB :
    1) Play Ruric Thar, the Unbowed in your SB, you can
    - fetch it with Fierce empath then cast it with Food chain
    - tutor it with Natural Order
    - get it into play with Show and tell
    - costs almost nothing to buy, real cheap solution

    And it's a real solution against Storm.decks, maybe combo.decks in general !

    2) Play Terastodon in your SB, for same reasons as Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, and you can destroy lots of permanents able to lock you, and you can go for 1 9/9 and 3 3/3 Elephant tokens if needed by destroying your own lands if needed.

    3) For graveyard hates, I thought to play :
    - 1 Savannah + 2 Rest in peace for grave.decks but maybe ?
    - 1 Scavenging Ooze you could tutor with Natural order maybe ?

    On the MD, maybe test with 3 Deathrite shaman for being better against grave.decks, or 3 Ancient tomb to go faster.

    Tell me your thoughts about it Obould !

    Thank you
    Hi,

    your suggestions seems legit. I was expecting a lot of bug and delver/TNN decks and other aggro like burn and boros. Thats why I chose angel over terastodon. I think this deck doesn't care much about gravedecks other than the faster ones like Oops, all spells and reanimators because they are faster than us and against them surgical extractions with counterspells are good enough. I was hoping not to get paired against TES ;) Ruric is a good call! I think next time I try ruric and terastodon in place of wipe away and angel. If I tune MD I think I start trying with 3 ancient tomb because we need to be fast and shaman is just a 1/2 beater against bug and other shaman decks.

  7. #27

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Obould View Post
    Hi,

    your suggestions seems legit. I was expecting a lot of bug and delver/TNN decks and other aggro like burn and boros. Thats why I chose angel over terastodon. I think this deck doesn't care much about gravedecks other than the faster ones like Oops, all spells and reanimators because they are faster than us and against them surgical extractions with counterspells are good enough. I was hoping not to get paired against TES ;) Ruric is a good call! I think next time I try ruric and terastodon in place of wipe away and angel. If I tune MD I think I start trying with 3 ancient tomb because we need to be fast and shaman is just a 1/2 beater against bug and other shaman decks.
    Yep, as you say i don't think adding Deathrite shaman is a good idea cos he's not always able to produce mana.

    So maybe trying with 3 Ancient tomb seems better.

    I think, as you noticed that it's better to have a SB full of green creatures cos your Natural order becomes real more powerful on game 2 as a tutor rather than praying for getting 1 lone Spell pierce / Wipe away in SB

    And you don't care about delver/TNN decks cos if you're able to get your combo, you'll win in the turn.

  8. #28

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Something came up last night while Joe Lossett (sp?) was streaming; if you are using deathrite shaman you can exile your griffin to cast it again… this is certainly not common but it may be a useful interaction. I guess the same holds true for Scavenging Ooze.

  9. #29

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    So ive been playing this deck for a few weeks now, got second place at a small local tournament losing only to BG Pox. Beat Lands, and High Tide.

    Current List

    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Emrakul, The Aeons torn
    1 Griselbrand
    1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
    3 MullDrifter
    3 Fierce Empath
    3 Wall of Roots
    1 Aethersnipe
    3 Misthollow Griffin

    4 Food chain
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Ponder
    3 Beck // call
    3 Manipulate Fate

    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Tropical Island
    2 Island
    2 Forest
    2 Ancient Tomb


    So far its all in on the combo, but its been working very, very well. In my testing and from the games yesterday, it feels very solid. Turn 3 was my average turn on the day, Beck is an amazing card in here though costing 2 is a little annoying. The reason why I am playing Beck over Glimpse of Nature is the fact that Beck states MAY draw a card. Allowing you in your combo turn to play it and just pick up cards from your library until you have a win+ protection to go off through. I do not yet really have a sideboard for the deck, so I played fearless on the day and was still able to do as well as I did, though it was a small tourney.

    Thoughts on sideboard cards:
    2-3 Flusterstorm to improve the combo matchup exponentially.
    2-3 Misdirection to make Abrupt decay worse and to protect Food Chain.
    2-3 Leyline of the Void anti Graveyard spell, also considering testing adding 1-2 Savannah and using Rest in Piece instead to prevent discard from preventing usefulness of Misthollow
    Beyond this I draw a blank, at the moment I am thinking on a possible NoPro Style sideboard plan or an aggro plan with TNN, Goyf and Delver. Notable cards I'm also considering, Spell Pierce, Green Sun's Zenith, and Daze.
    Belcher
    Delver
    Dredge

    When your heart won't beat, your eyes go black
    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

  10. #30
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    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatusnox View Post
    The reason why I am playing Beck over Glimpse of Nature is the fact that Beck states MAY draw a card. Allowing you in your combo turn to play it and just pick up cards from your library until you have a win+ protection to go off through.
    When would you choose not to draw a card? I guess if your Emrakul is the last card in the deck, maybe?

  11. #31
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    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Has anyone considering using Imperial Recruiter in this deck?
    You can chain them into each other, and then move into the Emath-Snipe-Griselbrand plan.

    Nut draw, which doesn't require a Griffin in hand:

    Turn 1:
    Land, Hierarch (or DRS)

    Turn 2:
    Land, Food Chain
    Chain Hierarch into any 2-drop
    Chain 2-drop (+RRR) into Recruiter(1) (-RRR) and search for Recruiter(2).
    Chain Recruiter(1) (+RRRR) into Recruiter(2) (-RRR) and search for Recruiter(3). R floating.
    Chain Recruiter(2) (+GGGG) into Recruiter(3) (-RGG) and search for Fierce Empath. GG floating.
    Chain Recruiter(3) (+UUUU) into Fierce Empath (-UUG) and search for Aethersnipe. UUG floating.
    Evoke Aethersnipe (-UUG, empty pool) and bounce the Fierce Empath.
    Chain the Aethersnipe with the sacrifice-trigger on the stack (+GGGGGGG) and cast Fierce Empath (-GGG), finding Griselbrand. GGGG floating.
    Chain Fierce Empath for BBBB and cast Griselbrand.

    They could also be used to tutor for silver bullets, although that would take the deck towards a more (and probably too) durdly plan.

    If anybody tinkered with a build in this vain, I would like to hear from your experiences.

    Grtz,

    Tom

  12. #32

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Holden1669 View Post
    When would you choose not to draw a card? I guess if your Emrakul is the last card in the deck, maybe?
    Generally speaking, in any event where the number of times you must cast griffin is greater than the number of cards in your library. Or if you are playing against random janky decks such as mill where leaving cards in your library can prevent random auto losses. If I have the definite win+ strong backup in hand, often times ill stop drawing. Though I will admit pick up my library kill you is fun.
    Belcher
    Delver
    Dredge

    When your heart won't beat, your eyes go black
    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

  13. #33

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    I really suggest you for having at least a second win con in main or at least in side. Every once and then opponent plays extirpate/surgical extraction and with discard and/or counters they just take your win con away. That doesn't happen too often but when it does it is just too annoying. Some times griffins are enough but I wouldn't rely on them. Also without removals a single phyrexian revoker or medling mage naming food chain kills your combo (I faced both of them in my last tourney and managed to get through with natural order and show and tell).

  14. #34
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    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Hey guys just a heads up i love the deck and will be playing it on the 16th at a win a dual legacy event.
    I will post the list afterwards and let you all know how it performs.

  15. #35
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    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinSrednoselac View Post
    Hey guys just a heads up i love the deck and will be playing it on the 16th at a win a dual legacy event.
    I will post the list afterwards and let you all know how it performs.
    I hope you crush it! Looking forward to hearing how it went :)

  16. #36

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Obould View Post
    I really suggest you for having at least a second win con in main or at least in side. Every once and then opponent plays extirpate/surgical extraction and with discard and/or counters they just take your win con away. That doesn't happen too often but when it does it is just too annoying. Some times griffins are enough but I wouldn't rely on them. Also without removals a single phyrexian revoker or medling mage naming food chain kills your combo (I faced both of them in my last tourney and managed to get through with natural order and show and tell).
    Aethersnipe is fairly effective as an answer to Needle or Revoker but I agree with them being a huge issue. As of right now I am fairly happy with the main but definitely am clueless on a sideboard plan. The one I am more closely leaning towards would be a nopro style setup.

    The side I will try to test this week.


    2 flusterstorm
    2 misdirection
    2 spell pierce
    3 natural order
    2 progenitus
    1 Aethersnipe
    2 natures claim
    Belcher
    Delver
    Dredge

    When your heart won't beat, your eyes go black
    There's a light in the tunnel and you can't turn back
    Your friends can't save you, your family's gone
    You're waiting on your judgment at the foot of the throne
    Will you beg for some mercy? Will you cop some pleas?
    Will you stand on your own or get down on your knees?
    Will your angels release you from where demons dwell?
    Will you make it into Heaven or go right back to Hell?
    Only time will tell

  17. #37

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Beatusnox View Post
    Aethersnipe is fairly effective as an answer to Needle or Revoker but I agree with them being a huge issue. As of right now I am fairly happy with the main but definitely am clueless on a sideboard plan. The one I am more closely leaning towards would be a nopro style setup.

    The side I will try to test this week.


    2 flusterstorm
    2 misdirection
    2 spell pierce
    3 natural order
    2 progenitus
    1 Aethersnipe
    2 natures claim
    If you are trying natural order I would also suggest adding one dryad arbor main (maybe in place of one tropical island?). It has won me quite many games when opponent tries to keep board clear of creatures or fetching it in response to liliana's sac-ability. Also if you are willing to add black abrupt decays would be better than extra aethersnipe and natures claim..? I'm not saying that these are better solutions, but worth a try. Also how is Maga working for you? Is it just a win more because you can't tutor it with empath and when you are drawing cards with beck//call you can just win with emrakul, griselbrand and griffins hitting face?

    EDIT: And I would also try to fit in the misdirections MD. Maybe -1 Maga(if maga isn't too important), -1 mulldrifter or beck//call, +2 misdirection?

  18. #38

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    I am testing this list,

    don't know yet if it is better than both standard food chain or dark depth.
    It seems that food chain can ignore dark depths hate(wasteland/sword/karakas), and dark depth can ignore food chain hate (decay/revoker).
    I haven't done much testing yet though.
    With infinite mana and a billion of land tutor you can get eye for emmy.
    Side is in construction, basically the same that when i played dakr depths.

    I am also wondering why people play more than 1 elfe tutor for emmy, while green sun's zenith does the same thing but allows turn one dryad arbor.

    Thoughts ?


    4 Food Chain
    3 Misthollow Griffin
    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Vampire Hexmage
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    4 Thespian's Stage
    1 Ghost Quarter
    4 City of Brass
    3 Manipulate Fate
    1 Eye of Ugin
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Sejiri Steppe
    1 Forest
    4 Yavimaya Coast
    2 Gemstone Mine
    3 Sylvan Library
    4 Expedition Map
    4 Pithing Needle
    3 Sylvan Scrying
    SB: 1 Ancient Tomb
    SB: 4 Ratchet Bomb
    SB: 4 Trinisphere
    SB: 4 Swan Song
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 Envelop
    1 Marit Lage
    Last edited by adrieng; 03-10-2014 at 04:02 AM.

  19. #39

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post

    I am also wondering why people play more than 1 elfe tutor for emmy, while green sun's zenith does the same thing but allows turn one dryad arbor.
    You can only cast creature spells with the mana from food chain so the mana can't be spent to cast GSZ or activate eye of ugin.

  20. #40

    Re: [Primer] Food Chain Combo

    Ok tanks for the info, so my deck won't work ...

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