I'm Also wondering the same thing, the most card draw I can see coming from Venser + Wall of Blossoms is from the following chain.
Play Wall of Blossoms (1st extra card). Cast Venser, bounce and play Wall of Blossoms (2nd extra card). Karakas targeting Venser, play Venser, Bounce and play Wall of Blossoms (3rd extra card).
3 extra cards is pretty good IMO if you combine with sylvan library, fetch lands, brainstorms, shardless agents. But there is still a big chance you miss finding Emrakul or Tidespout, but on the bright side of things you will still have 4 griffins in play so the clock is very short.
I was playing this deck online earlier today and was able to fog a Wurmcoil Engine while sifting through my deck with Vendilion Clique + Karakas looking for Food Chain to combo out and win. Just having the ability for these little interactions is awesome and makes me want to play this deck vice a very linear combo deck like storm or reanimator. The only thing i'm not really sold on from the SCG LA list is the sideboard it's good but online the meta is crazy so i'm still trying to tweak the sideboard to help shore up some matches, if anyone has some cool new sideboard tech they found i'd love to hear some cause i'm just hitting brick walls sometimes.
I played the current shardless / no fierce empath version today at a 33 man local event and went undefeated the whole way to take first place. The list is pretty much the same as the one Job had at the recent SCG, which was actually a carbon copy of the list from MODO which my friend Phil Stolze had 4-0d a couple of dailies with. The only changes I made were cutting the second wall and a venser to play 2 more death rites. I also changed up the sideboard a lot, which had 4 ancestral visions for all the BGx decks that just want to hymn you. I also had flusterstorms to fight combo, I wouldn't have beaten my high tide opponent without them. The deck was pretty sweet, just casting manipulate fate for value was so awesome against all the fair decks. The one thing that was missing was catch all for hate cards in the board. I had games against death and taxes where I had to jump through a ton of hoops because they had 3 different hate bears on the board and I couldn't combo. I'm going to try playing some engineered explosives in my sideboard for that reason. The only cards that could ever beat me in fair matchups were 2 drops, and EE is insane there since food chain has barely any 2s in it at all. I'm not sure if I'll keep playing the deck going forward, but for anyone who really wants to work on it, they should really try some EEs in the board.
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
I don't think cutting the walls in favor of Deathrite is the way to go, i'd much rather shardless into a wall for the cantrip then have another Deathrite in play when i'm trying to push the combo forward. Engineered Explosives is an interesting card for the board I was trying to find an answer to Death and Taxes or other fast paced decks. I'm not a fan of puting Ancestral Vision's in the 75 they would be awesome in the right circumstance but i'd rather be playing a Noble Hierarch on first turn then suspending a Visions and if you draw one later trying to find a Brainstorm and Shardless Agent to set up the free 3 card combo would be tricky. I know it's a strong combo in Shardless BUG but I just think it may make this deck a little to clunky. What I have been thinking about is trimming a few spots for a couple Living Wish in an attempt to give a little versatility to the combo turn so we could wish for Emrakul or Tidespout Tyrant but trying to jam a couple in without diluting the deck is very tricky. I feel like the flow of the UG Shardless version that Job ran is very good the way it is. I'm still messing with my sideboard to try and optimize it against the MTGO meta but don't feel it's in a good place yet to try to pilot through a daily.
After seeing the coverage I was also inspired to build and play this deck. It's a blast to play and the first tournament I played with it went 3-1, loosing to rug delver nut draws. Since the deck already plays white via noble heirarch, has any one one tried white over the deathrite "black splash". White gives you RIP out of sideboard. It also gives you access to swords to plowshares and Geist of st traft, when you covert the deck to planB mode.
Also, I never thought I would get into a counterspell war over a wall of blossoms, but it happened! Wall -> daze -> FoW (pitching griffin) -> FoW back. Lolol
I am playing the current list:
1 Tidespout Tyrant
2 Griselbrand
2 Noble hierarch
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Misdirection
3 Manipulate Fate
4 Force of will
4 Brainstorm
4 Food Chain
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Forest
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
I think Griselbrand is more easy to cast from hand than Emrakul without combo . Really funny deck. With food chain and Griffin(s) in play is nearly imposible to lose Vs Miracles, Delver, etc... Very interesting creature Misthollow Griffin.
Does it makes sense to play 4 DRS as a sort of plan B (burn out)? Is the 4 NHeirarch and 3 DRS good enough?
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I've played builds with no hierarchs and 4x Deathrites and have generally been pleased. I currently like a 2/3 split of hierarch/shaman as I like having a mana dork consistently and exalted can be really good.
The "burn" plan can be very relevant as part of the plan b (beat down, midrange style) as well as exiling griffins from the yard to perma block can be nice in a pinch so I would always try to run 2 or more Deathrites I think.
That's what I noticed mostly from Jonathan Job's list-- that is, lack of multiple DRS to interact with "dead" Misthollows.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
My plan A is generally to stop food chain. Whether it be by discarding it, or having revoker to stop it, that is a plan. Generally a mid range deck will have a better beatdown plan since SoFaI is real good vs this deck. I think discard is pretty alright vs this deck. Nothing amazing, but Food Chain is attempting to assemble a 3 card combo so taking a piece or two can slow them down.
My current list (61 Cards)
2 DRS
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Baleful Strix
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Edric, Spymaster Trest
4 Shardless agent
4 Food chain
4 Misthollow Griffin
4 Force of will
1 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
3 Manipulate Fate
2 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Emrakul
4 Tropical Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Karakas
2 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
SB
2 Dread of Night
2 Null Rod
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Flusterstorm
4 Obstinate Baloth
2 Grafdigger's Cage
During my Playtest with Edric and baleful strix, I find that it really slowed Opponent down long enough for me to my combo pieces. Opponent often hesitate to use Delver to attack with Edric and strix in play. At the very least Edric and Strix lures a bolt which will otherwise land on your head. Edric makes your Ordinary Shardless agent and deathrite looks deadly and lands you cards with your flyers if opponent doesnt have much flying blockers. Any feedback on my list? Weakness that I encountered so far is an opening hand with no mana dorks and cantrips; an resolved grim lavamancer, Mirran crusader equipped with a Swords of Fire and Ice. I am struggling to cut that one card to 60.
2 hilarious tourney that I have encountered with this deck was that opponent nearly scooped when i landed a turn 1 Dread of Night and a turn 2 null rod against this deck's nemesis DnT; rendered his Thalia, Mother and Vial useless. Against a grindy Mudpost deck, I was on the verge of losing with a Platinum Angel (saving him for 5+ turns as his life was negative due to my griffin beatdown and his ancient tombs), a wurmcoil engine and a darksteel colossus beat down. Things doesnt help when a Revoker joined in the ranks rendering my food chain useless. After sending my armies of griffins,strix,cliques,agents in an desperate attempt to stop darksteel. At 2 life and 9 infect counters, a top deckked Tidespout came to the resuce, much to the dismay of my opponent. I suppose this was the only time I missed Venser
This deck is really a blast to play, in casual games I tried the 4 colour cascade package (+4 Bloodbriad elves, +2 Diabolic Intent,-2 Edric, -1 Tidespout Tyrant, -1Misdirection,-2 Clique). You would have imagine the look on opponent's face when bloodbraid elves cascade to shardless Agent into Baleful Strix and drew a brainstorm; and within the brainstorm you have the diabolic intent for the combo win.
Hi,
Played in a 22 player local tourney yesterday and made myself to the tops again. We played 5 rounds of swiss (3-2, 7th place) and top8 (got myself to top4). My list was almost the same than in the first page of this thread with the following differences: MD -1 verdant catacombs, +1 ancient tomb and side -1 spell pierce, -1 wipe away, +1 ruric, +1 terastodon.
R1 vs. Show and tell with hivemind 2-1 (game 1 won with a natural order-progenitus after he show and tells to emrakul and I shower aethersnipe. I beated with it him to 10 life and then managed to get progenitus online. He got emrakul, but progenitus killed him. G2 he show and telled hivemind and I put emrakul. He pacted. G3 Food chain to emrakul. At some point I had managuys, food chain and a griffin online and couple of lands. Then he show and telled to emrakul and I put nothing. Next turn I natural order to fierce getting emrakul to hand and comboed with griffin netting me extra turn ftw.)
R2 vs. Mono-B Pox 2-1 (G1 turn 3 progenitus with backup dudes on board, The breaking point was when misdirected his sinkhole to his own swamp. G2 drew only managuys and lands and no combo. G3 turn 2 show and tell to emrakul with a managuy on the table.)
R3 vs. ANT 0-2 (G1 had a decent hand, but he duresses in a first couple of turns and got my fows away. In turn 3 he comboed. G2 I mulliganed but drew no counters or fast combo, on his turn 1 he probed and comboed.)
R4 vs. UWR Delver 0-2 (G1 he put a turn 1 delver which flipped while countering my food chain attempts. G2 I flooded hard and delver hitted face.)
R5 vs. UR Delver 2-1 (G1 he counters my food chain attempts and burned my managyus while delver and guide hitted face. G2 turn 2 show and tell to emrakul ftw with a backup counter. G3 he had only a mountain in play and a lavamancer. Burned me hard still trying to get fast kill, but I show and telled turn 3 -countered- and turn 4 which I managed to get through putting empyrial archangel to the board. I was at 10 life and had emrakul in hand, but he could have killed me next turn without angel. Angel was enough this time.)
TOP8
R1 vs. the same ANT 2-0 (G1 he probed me 3 times with phyrexian mana and I hitted him with noble + shaman and got him to around 10-12 life. Then he adnauseamed but it was really bad and he got only few cards and stopped at 2 life, gg. G2 I got turn 2 ruric with natural order.)
R2 vs. BG Loam pox 1-2 (G1 he destroyed my lands and I didn't drew any in many turns. While I drew few lands I was at 2 life and could have food chained to fierce-'snipe-griselbrand, but he had cursed scroll online. G2 I got turn 2 show and tell to omniscience to emrakul. G3 was though, He destroyed my early hand and got bridge on board while factories hitted face. At a point I had 2 lands + 2 fetches in play and natural order + 2 other irrelevant cards in hand. Then he drew hymn and hymned the irrelevant cards away and I was happy because next turn I would have got terastodon, BUT he got also ravens crime taking natural order away :( )
All in all a great tourney and the deck is really fun to play and hard to side against. My version includes many combos so it is quite hard to hate all of them. Also there is a plan C beatdown with griffins with nobles + couple of shamans.
Hi there, can be burning tree emisary a good card for this deck? Its a free creature and with a food chain is +5..
Any issues?
Is anyone still playing this deck? What are everyone's opinions on this list Food Griffin - oarsman ?
20 LANDS
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
15 CREATURES
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Fierce Empath
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tidespout Tyrant
21 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Force of Will
3 Manipulate Fate
3 Thoughtseize
1 Misdirection
4 Food Chain
SIDEBOARD
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Duress
3 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Massacre
1 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
Split the finals of a 140 person event for 40 duals with the deck. I'll have a report up soon.
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
Congrats to both of you! I can not wait to hear how things went! I think this deck still has a lot of latent potential…and your results certainly support that. Unfortunately, I have been unable to play the deck recently. Looking forward to being able to in the upcoming weeks.
Report is up here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...259#post810259
You can't pull out the RUG from under me, CUZ I AM THE RUG!
Nice tournament, nice report. Congrats. I have been considering removing the Wall of Blossoms and putting the second Venser back. Wall blocks sometimes, and cantrips, but as a one-of I think it has less impact than a second Venser to bounce problematic permanents (Pithing Needle, Revoker, Canonist, etc), occasionally (sort of) counter key spells, or save your own Food Chain from an Abrupt Decay or something.
How do you sideboard against BUG? I assume that you bring in the Ancestral Visions and Misdirection but what do you take out? I have been leaving in a few copies of Force of Will against fair decks more often than when I'm playing with something else because the Griffin can mitigate the card disadvantage. But this could be wrong, I don't know.
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