[Deck] Food Chain Combo

[WarpWorld]

Caio402 I have been playing a 1 of each dual list for about 3 years now off and on. Lately to decent success locally with a 7-3-1 record over the last 3 events. I play a greedy 18 lands list with a noble in the 19th land slot. Not sure on how many flusters we should be playing and those are my flex spots at the moment. I could see cutting a Balista and a fluster for trinket mage and a relic which some people have been doing lately. I would be interested in people's thoughts. So here's the list...

Lands (18)
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Creatures (18)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch

3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Eternal Scourge

3 Baleful Strix
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

2 Gurmag Angler
3 Walking Ballista

Instant (13)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut

*Enchantment (5)
4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

Sorcery (6)
3 Manipulate Fate
3 Ponder

Sideboard (15)
2 Flusterstorm
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Hydroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Fatal Push

[battousai555]

I would be interested in people's thoughts. So here's the list...

I really dig the Trinket + Relic maindeck because of the utility and ability to "get" some decks G1, but that's just me. 3 delve spells seem like a bit much to me, but ymmv. I would cut 1 Gurmag and 1 Fluster for the Trinket and Relic. How is the Noble working out for you? I've never tried it.

[janchu88]

18 lands in a deck that tries to resolve a lot of cmc3 and cmc4 spells just isnt right. 19 feels like the absolute minimum to me and that only under the condition that i play 4 ponder. Over the course of a longer tournament you are definitely going to lose a few games to that mana base, because you will be missing land drops

[WarpWorld]

Thanks for the replies.

I do understand the risks of my mana base it is greedy. I feel comfertable playing 3 and 4 mana spells with 5 mana dorks at the moment. I do have a habit of fetching basics first to play around wasteland which might contribute to some of my success with the mana base but it may catch up to me. I also generally try to keep 2 land hands when possible but what is in the hand and match up matter when making these choices. The first DRS generally gets answered if possible by most people but the old saying is "bolt the bird". The noble has been good for me so far. It either eats the first removal spell and protects my DRS or goes unchecked and let's me cast my 3 and 4 mana spells. The exalted trigger has been nice so far as well. Turning my guys into 4/4s has mattered, flicker wisp doesn't trade and batterskull is a trade. It also helps with the misinformation plan. Most people tend to think I am on infect or a blade deck when I lead on noble over DRS. My first land also matters here as well. It doesn't produce black mana but I haven't come across a time where it has mattered yet. If DRS gets the ban hammer I could see playing 3 or 4 nobles and some number of birds as the mana dorks.

Three delve spells seems to be the right number in this build. I don't think I would run more than 3 at this point. They do a good job recycling dead Griffins. I do like playing a delve spell and recasting a griffin in the mid to late game. I have been switching between Tombstalker and one of the anglers which is why I am on 2 swamps at the moment normally it would be the 3rd island, not sure which is better. The murderous cut has been great for me and could see playing a second copy in the 75 but I am unsure what I would cut to make room for it, as the list feels tight and I don't want to play more than three delve spells. It does become a bit easier if I add trinket / relic, which I will give a try and see how it does at the next time I take the deck out. I might go down to 2 Balistas with the inclusion of trinket mage because he fetches them out but they also act as removal.

Thanks for the thoughts and criticisms. I enjoy the discussion and view points. Keep it up.

[benjiman13]

Any love for the new Squee?
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/carte?ref=dom130

[Karhumies]

So a few of my friends and I have been talking about brewing an RG prison/food chain list which would utilize the new squee. It takes a different approach from BUG food chain, so not sure if it warrants it's own thread or not. Basically the deck eschews countermagic and discard spells to go for chalice of the void and blood moon, and has a possibly faster way to combo by using sol lands, spirit guides, and lotus petals. As was already mentioned imperial recruiter can get both squee and walking ballista, which is sort of what led us down this path in the first place.

...

I'm interested to hear some community feedback or other ideas to incorporate. This list started off as kind of a joke but sounded better and better as we kept talking about cards that would work well in it, so I'm excited to try it out when the set gets released.

Long time Monored Stompy player here. I don't own a set of Food Chains yet, but I feel like maybe it's time for me to make the purchase soon.

Here's my take on the list you had submitted earlier (Squee should be the new one BTW):

Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x City of Traitors
1x Forest
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Plateau
2x Taiga
4x Windswept Heath
2x Wooded Foothills

Artifact (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Lotus Petal

Creature (20)
4x Imperial Recruiter
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
2x Squee, Goblin Nabob
4x Tarmogoyf
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Walking Ballista

Enchantment (6)
1x Blood Moon
4x Food Chain
1x Sylvan Library

Sorcery (3)
3x Commune with the Gods

Instant (3)
1x Eladamri's Call
2x Enlightened Tutor

Sideboard (18)
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Karakas
1x Mana Tithe
4x Orim's Chant
1x Rest in Peace
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Xantid Swarm

I initially had white for Recruiter of the Guard, but ended up cutting it and keeping E.Tutor.

Monored Stompy has 8 moon effects + 4 Chalice (+ Ensnaring Bridge + Trinisphere + Thorn of Amethyst + Goblin Rabblemaster depending on the exact build), so this deck has significantly less powerful t1 plays available. That's why I am advocating E.Tutor as an additional t1 play even though Chalice 1 + tutor is a nonbo. Mostly because I have problems coming up with relevant t1 plays since we don't run black discard or blue cantrips for cmc1, and blind Revoker or another cmc2-3 artifact like Thorn of Amethyst, Ensnaring Bridge or Trinisphere is not really progressing our game plan. Normal Food Chain lists are running DRS/Noble Hierarch and blue cantrips in their cmc1 slot, but those are not very good for this list. E.Tutor grabs Moon, Food Chain, Ballista, Chalice and Sylvan Library. What's not to like?

1-3 split between Moon-Magus: Magus can beat the opponent in 10 turns, but we need 1 Moon for t1 E.Tutor into t2 Moon.

Tarmogoyf: Solid plan is to have moon/chalice to slow our opponent down t1 + t2 Tarmogoyf beats. Plays a role similar to Goblin Rabblemaster in the monored stompy aggro builds. Also synergy with Commune "self mill", petals, fetches and even E.Tutor. Plays a similar role to Gurmag Angler in "normal" Food Chain lists. Hooting Mandrills would be the green Delve mechanic alternative. Quirion Dryad would be the old school alternative which "goes infinite" with Squee + Food Chain without needing the Ballista. But Tarmogoyf is almost always better on t1, t2 and t3 than either one of those.

Thalia: toolbox creature good enough to run as "fun of". Occasionally Recruiter worthy target. We are not running cantrip chains like the blue Food Chain builds. Gaddock Teeg would also be a toolbox creature but I feel it's too narrow for MD.

Eladamri's Call: Experimental flex slot. Might end up cutting this for a 4th Commune. Or maybbe run a 1of Planeswalker mostly just to pump Tarmogoyf?

Sideboard is all over the place. More prison elements like Trinisphere, Ensnaring Bridge or Thorn of Amethyst?

[battousai555]

Just saw this list and was surprised to see Altar of the Brood. I've never seen anyone use it before, so I was wondering if y'all have any experience with it. Seems pretty cool to have an alternate win condition that's retrievable with Trinket if someone has a Pithing Needle or Revoker on Walking Ballista.

[Kaono]

Does nothing on its own, and plenty of opponents also scoop to an infinite/infinite ballista attacking them every turn. Plus we have Decay etc to answer Needle/Revoker if necessary. Barring a very specific meta I am not a fan of wasting a slot on it.

edit: Altar was discussed before Ballista was printed, and I remember a few people playing mage/altar/SDT back then for a while.

[ang3lfir3]

I played a list similar to the above mentioned one at GP Seattle, including the single copy of altar (yet another card your opponent has to read). I was a tad skeptical at first, but thought I would give it a shot. I ended up decking a number of opponents by dropping an altar and a food chain. It did come in to play interestingly in a match against big prison where i was able to mill a large number of powerful cards to keep my deathrite powered up. I don't think that is a great reason to play it but it did work out well enough. Not sure I will spend the card on it in the future.

What I will say was the most impressive new card was the sideboard hostage taker (I only played one). Taking a Griselbrand hostage and casting it off a Scourge/Griffin and a Food Chain was basically disgusting. Still had issues dealing with storm and I think I only faced it once. All in all my event didn't go great but FC felt good most of the time. I didn't have a golgari charm and missed it on several occasions.

I honestly think the deck has some decent game against delver and the other deathrite/Leovold decks. BR reanimator is a terrible matchup however but unless it picks up in popularity I'd rather just avoid it then try and beat it. I was originally going to play eldrazi at the event but I enjoy this deck too much and find some advantage in not having your opponent know what is up.

I'd be interested to hear other people's thoughts on the matchups for FC and any sideboarding experience people have. I am still working on getting better at this part of the deck.

[Nightrider]

Hi Community,

do you think that Muldrotha, the Gravetide from Dominaria is a good add to this deck to make it more resilient?

Thanks.

[JackaBo]

Hi Community,

do you think that Muldrotha, the Gravetide from Dominaria is a good add to this deck to make it more resilient?

Thanks.

Not really. We generally want to play as few cards a possible that is dead outside of combo.

[WarpWorld]

Not really. We generally want to play as few cards a possible that is dead outside of combo.

JackaBo I think you are right and wrong. I dont think it is good in this deck. As far as I can see it is a dead card in the combo because it doesn't add anything to our combo or win us the game. Where it shines IMO is outside of the combo by recasting food chains that have been countered. I think that's too narrow of a use for the card to be good in this deck.

[JackaBo]

JackaBo I think you are right and wrong. I dont think it is good in this deck. As far as I can see it is a dead card in the combo because it doesn't add anything to our combo or win us the game. Where it shines IMO is outside of the combo by recasting food chains that have been countered. I think that's too narrow of a use for the card to be good in this deck.

Yes i was both right n wrong. Right in that it's dead without food chain, being 6 cmc. Wrong in that it's dead* even with food chain.

*aka there's better finnishers

[Manroe]

Can you use food chain mana to cast kicked creatures? If so is there any new creature that has merit?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[WarpWorld]

Can you use food chain mana to cast kicked creatures? If so is there any new creature that has merit?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Yes you can use it to pay the kicker cost because the kicker cost is part of the casting cost of the spell. No there aren't any really exciting creatures for us outside of squee the immortal.

Playing devils advocate for Muldrotha. First she is not a combo creature or win condition for the deck. She fills the role recurring our threats in the late game. I don't think getting the 6 Mana is unreasonable in the late game without the combo. She allows us to recast our creatures and food chains from our graveyard. The problem is that we have to untap with her because I don't think we'll get to 9 mana to cast her and food chain in one turn. Baleful Strix is either an artifact or creature which is good value. She is also blue to pitch to force of will. The question becomes what do we cut.

[Jesture]

Playing devils advocate for Muldrotha. First she is not a combo creature or win condition for the deck. She fills the role recurring our threats in the late game. I don't think getting the 6 Mana is unreasonable in the late game without the combo. She allows us to recast our creatures and food chains from our graveyard. The problem is that we have to untap with her because I don't think we'll get to 9 mana to cast her and food chain in one turn. Baleful Strix is either an artifact or creature which is good value. She is also blue to pitch to force of will. The question becomes what do we cut.

Cut nothing? Muldrotha seems bad, since when was being able to repeatedly cast Griffins and Scourge from exile not grindy enough? In a slow and durdly game, we'll have all the time and mana we need to flood the board with 3/3's. In the faster combo-off matchups, a 6 mana creature might as well be a blank card.

[janchu88]

Can you use food chain mana to cast kicked creatures? If so is there any new creature that has merit?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

The best you can find, that aint completely dead outside of the combo is wolfbriar elemental. Tried it in a shardless list and actually hardcasted it several times

[WarpWorld]

Lands (18)
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Creatures (18)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Eternal Scourge
3 Baleful Strix
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Tombstalker
1 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista

Instant (13)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut

Enchantment (5)
4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

Sorcery (6)
3 Manipulate Fate
3 Ponder

Artifact (1)
1 Relic of Progenitus

Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Hydroblast
1 Murderous Cut
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Fatal Push

Took this list to a local yesterday with 28 players. Good for 5 rounds with a top 8. Went 3-0-2 in the Swiss which was good enough for 1st after the Swiss. Lost in the top8 to B/R reanimator in 2.
Round 1 on camera vs TinFin Depths 2-1. http://https://m.twitch.tv/videos/255442734
Round 2 vs B/R reanimator 2-1 Game 2 he had a turn 2 grisselbrand which was to much.
Round 3 vs 4c Pile 2-0 I feel like relic did a lot of work here in Game 1. I just seemed to out value him and grind him out. Tombstalker was king in Game 2 by doing most of the work and rebuying a griffin that traded with a strix a turn earlier.
Round 4 ID with burn
Round 5 ID with goblins
Top8 lost to B/R reanimator 0-2* Game 1 I kept a solid hand that offered a fast combo and some disruption. Got unmasked and Theropied and that was followed up with a grisselbrand. Game 2 I kept a greedy one lander with needle and cage. Got my ponder unmasked. They found echoing truth before I found land or DRS which let them reanimate Tidespout Tirrant. I eventually found some lands but no answer to Tirrant and it was almost impossible to stick a creature to the board. I needed them to not draw a spell so I could win the following turn. They drew a spell and they swung for exacties. Me being at 2 with the ability to gain 2 life and them swinging for 4.

Feel like it was a reanimator was over represented on the day with 3 in the top 8. I should have probably had some number of surgicals and probably will going forward. Relic was good on the day and pulled it's weight when I had it.

[JackaBo]

Lands (18)
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou

Creatures (18)
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Eternal Scourge
3 Baleful Strix
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gurmag Angler
1 Tombstalker
1 Trinket Mage
2 Walking Ballista

Instant (13)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut

Enchantment (5)
4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

Sorcery (6)
3 Manipulate Fate
3 Ponder

Artifact (1)
1 Relic of Progenitus

Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Hydroblast
1 Murderous Cut
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Collective Brutality
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Fatal Push

Took this list to a local yesterday with 28 players. Good for 5 rounds with a top 8. Went 3-0-2 in the Swiss which was good enough for 1st after the Swiss. Lost in the top8 to B/R reanimator in 2.
Round 1 on camera vs TinFin Depths 2-1. I will see about a link.
Round 2 vs B/R reanimator 2-1 Game 2 he had a turn 2 grisselbrand which was to much.
Round 3 vs 4c Pile 2-0 I feel like relic did a lot of work here in Game 1. I just seemed to out value him and grind him out. Tombstalker was king in Game 2 by doing most of the work and rebuying a griffin that traded with a strix a turn earlier.
Round 4 ID with burn
Round 5 ID with goblins
Top8 lost to B/R reanimator 0-2* Game 1 I kept a solid hand that offered a fast combo and some disruption. Got unmasked and Theropied and that was followed up with a grisselbrand. Game 2 I kept a greedy one lander with needle and cage. Got my ponder unmasked. They found echoing truth before I found land or DRS which let them reanimate Tidespout Tirrant. I eventually found some lands but no answer to Tirrant and it was almost impossible to stick a creature to the board. I needed them to not draw a spell so I could win the following turn. They drew a spell and they swung for exacties. Me being at 2 with the ability to gain 2 life and them swinging for 4.

Feel like it was a reanimator was over represented on the day with 3 in the top 8. I should have probably had some number of surgicals and probably will going forward. Relic was good on the day and pulled it's weight when I had it.

Awesome ! Please look for that Link. I would love to see some food chain action on stream. Gravedecks are like that: when everybody runs GY-hate they vanish, then when people start skimning on hate, they return with a force.

[WarpWorld]

Added the link above.