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Thread: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

  1. #1

    Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Hi,

    I have fun picking up janky deck concepts and tweaking them to get more or less competitive results. Since everyone plays TNN.dec, RUG or Combo right now, Mono Black doesn't seem too bad after all due to the huge number of removal and sac effects it can run. Additionally, being immune to Wasteland is always an advantage because it voids an important part of some strategies. Historically, MBC's problem has always been that it sucks against noncreature Permanents, but since the printing of Hero's Downfall, that should be somewhat mitigated.

    MBC 2013/14

    17 Swamp
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Wasteland

    4 Innocent Blood
    3 Diabolic Edict
    3 Hero's Downfall
    1 Infest
    2 Damnation

    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Hymn to Tourach

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Phyrexian Arena
    1 Skeletal Scrying
    1 Crucible of Worlds

    2 Sorin Markov
    2 Batterskull
    2 Grave Titan

    SB:
    3 Tombstalker
    4 Duress
    4 Surgical Extraction
    4 Pithing Needle


    Given that you draw decently, it ought to be an easy one to succeed against RUG and other decks that rely on little threats in conjunction with disruption. The removal suite is supposed to be able to handle all creatures that are commonly played right now ( Mongoose, TNN, MoR, Geist ), hence most them are sacrifice effects. As stated before, I consider Hero's Downfall, while it's relatively expensive, as a asset because you can finally deal with planeswalkers aside discarding them. Previously, a resolved Jace basically meant game over because you can't apply pressure with so little threats.

    I prefer Thoughtseize because at the end of the day, Inquistion and Duress just can not compete with the merits of flexibility Thoughtseize has. Inquistion is fine against aggro-control and sucks vs control while the opposite is true for Duress. Thoughtseize on the other hand is decent in every matchup. The lifeloss can be awkward, but so far it hasn't proved to be a decisive disadvantage.

    The cardadvantage and -manipulation package should be self-explanatory because I can hardly think of better ways in black to generate CA & CQ other than Top, Arena and skeletal Scrying. Crucible is in there to open the possibility to wastelock the opponent (which is my answer to Punishing Fire engine btw ) and provides a constant stream of shuffle effects for top. Maybe Mishra's Factory could be an reasonable addition as well because it kills Planeswalkers and can fulfill the finisher role as well.

    I consider Sorin and Batterskull to be the best choices in the finisher spot because one the one hand they're resilient to common removal, while on the other they regain you the life you lose from Thoughtseize, Arena and Scrying. Grave Titan is immune to Bolt and Decay while only vulnerable to Stop, but you should be able to discard that before you drop him and if it doesn't work you'll still get 2 2/2s which is still a acceptable deal.

    I appreciate any suggestions or opinions on this deck.

  2. #2

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I am not trying to dismiss the idea of MBC in Legacy, but you're playing Sorin Markov.. A card that's not even good enough in Modern.. You also need more discard if you want to beat combo. I think Liliana of the Veil should be in here. Actually, isn't your deck just worse than the Smallpox deck?

  3. #3
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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Add Liliana of TV, then come back to tell us how it helped...
    You got Arena and Crucible to fight her drawback, and the fact that it kills creatures is invaluable.
    If only there'd be something similar to Genesis or whatever to feed Lili. Krovikan Horror? Meh. Undead Gladiator? Hm... It was played.

  4. #4

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I'm intrigued that you find Sorin bad. In fact, I consider him as pretty solid. He's mostly used for his first ability, because it acts as an repeatable Shock and 2 damage often suffice to kill opposing creatures right now. Also, the lifegain helps you to shift the state of the game to your favor. His Mindslaver can also create huge blowouts. Besides, he's another way to deal with planeswalkers. Frankly, I was actually leaning to increase his number up to 3 but you don't want to see him too early.

    I'm aware that 8x discard + 0 pressure won't suffice to succeed against combo but that's what the sb is for, hence I run additional disruption and a reliable clock there. On a side note, Tombstalker sometimes gets boarded in against noncombo matchups as well, because they usually side out their removal and then he can serve as a pretty decent wall.

    Yes, Liliana of the Veil is played by mana black decks but that doesn't necessarily mean that she's an autoinclude in every deck playing swamps. She's fine if you want to stop your opponent from recovering while applying pressure by creatures, but her main ability downright contradicts the actual gameplan of a control deck. And her merit of being an answer to Mongoose and TNN is barely relevant here, given how many sac-effects I already have.

    I can't tell if Pox is better of worse, but really, aside from its colors and some cards, MBC has almost nothing in common with Pox, those decks actually pursue a whole different strategy.

  5. #5

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I address BedDeckPlayer's suggestion in my previous post as well.

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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Wouldn't something like the Black Devotion pile fit into what you are trying to do?
    He also ran Arenas and Downfalls, with Gray Merchant as a win condition.
    A lot of people dismissed his list as jank, but it ran some tools that might fit in this pile.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Hi man, cool deck. I have messed around with these kind of decks a decent amount, and they can be pretty fun.

    Since the cards played in these kind of decks are fairly metagame dependent, I will list a bunch of cards that can potentially fit in your deck that might be worth considering instead of giving specific advice.

    Removal/Discard:
    wretched banquet
    ghastly demise
    dismember
    spinning darkness
    go for the throat
    victim of night
    chainer's edict
    toxic deluge
    shriekmaw
    fleshbag marauder
    gatekeeper of malakir
    funeral charm
    inquisition of kozilek
    Liliana of the veil


    Lands:
    urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
    cabal coffers
    volrath's stronghold

    Recursion to consider:
    shriekmaw/fleshbag marauder + volrath's stronghold or even with something like phyrexian reclamation if your deck is dense with creature/removal hybrids. Note that any creature recursion cards also have the added bonus of late game inevitability from your grave titans if they are killed/countered and not removed from the game.

    Hope this is helpful!

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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    I address BedDeckPlayer's suggestion in my previous post as well.
    Yep, I wrote that I'm not sure if she's that good namely without any recursion engine other than CoW. Otoh, she might be pretty annoying for the combo players that try to sculpt hand. Is Liliana Vess viable for this matter?
    I guess that Cabal Coffers would be the prime Wasteland target. They were good in Ext, for big Drain Life spells. But in Legacy... not really.
    Shriekmaw is a good idea and so is the one-of Volrath's Stronghold, maybe. It's once again a Waste target, but this one actually does something. Otoh playing it just for the Shriekmaw seems weak and you definitely don't want more creatures, unless you'd go full-on with Nekrataal/Chiterring Rats/etc. effects. Which clearly can't be anyone's intention mainly because it's awful tactic.
    But I'd play Shriekmaw and/or Edict-guy even in a pretty small number as it serves as a crappy removal and crappy wincon, which simply can't be bad coz it's flexible.
    I thought that there some black Elspeth, a PW that makes constant stream of (even small) creatures, but then I realized that it's the WB Sorin. Sadface.
    I like Chainer's Edict. I'm not sure if you really need another/different removal, but it's CA, though slow. Against decks like RUG, this might be good, you overload them with removal and then it sits in your gy waiting for them to topdeck creature in late game only to immediatelly sac it. But well, late game is not what' Legacy about, esp. considering RUG-like matchups.
    I'm surprised you don't have any of Pithing Needle, Rathcet Bomb, and such, versatile answers to annoying things that are close-to-free.
    Also, is Leyline of the Void good? Or Faerie Macabre? I heard that sometimes one may remove their Grisly and get a 2/2 flier out of it, but I understand that it's not the greatest priority.

    Otoh, you know what serves you the best, I guess you played "a few" games with it. Just my feedback and thughts, before I'd dismember and dismantle your deck, I should play it. But I really think that few of my/community's ideas are quite reasonable, esp. those in removal dpt. like Shriekmaw (versatility) and Ch. Edict (card advantage).

    EDIT: I see that exceopt for the Grave Titan (an StP target of choice), you're completely dead to Counterbalance. Is it even played today? And if it is, then what's your plan? I'd be tempted to simply throw one Emrakul into the pile...

  10. #10

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    First of all, thank you for your participation and interest.

    ScatmanX, you appear to miss the point. The Gate, at best, is a questionable hybrid of Suicide and MBC. I doesn't fullfill neither role particularly well, that's why it is actually pretty bad. Just because a deck has got some prominence and shares a few similarities with a 'new' approach, it doesn't necessarily mean that the initial is the way to go. It's the same as to the guy who suggested to play Pox instead.

    PirateKing, I remember this pile vaguely from a while ago, perhaps you could post a link to it? I have to say though that the Devotion mechanic doesn't really appeal to me, mostly because I fear that I would be obliged to play cards that are either weak or don't fit in the theme (don't suggest Phyrexian Obliterator please).

    Speed of Dark, thanks for your list of potential removal cards, although I knew most of them already, but I agree, the best choices are always those who address the metagame best. I felt that my removals of choice would fit the best to the current metagame, because they serve as reliable answers to almost all threats that are currently played, whereas cards like Smother, Victim of the Knight and go for the threat are insufficient against RUG and TNN. I have to admit though that BDP's suggestion to run Chainer's Edict is interesting though, mainly because it's a 2-1 and 7 mana is not that hard to reach. My only concern is that it's sorcery and I learned that having a sufficient amount of instant removal can be crucial when facing Karakas in conjunction with Thalia/Clique etc. However, I feel that the idea of running cards like Shriekmaw and Gatekeeper of Makakir is definitely worth a try due to the reasons BDP already mentioned, it's both flexible and gives your another source of inevitability when paired with recursion. It has to be acknowledged though that they would certainly cripple the manacurve. The deck is already pretty packed in the CC3 slot ( I switched to 2 Infest instead of the 3. Diabolic Edict) and running Fleshbag Marauder and Gatekeeper of Malakir instead of the aforementioned cards would certainly make it even worse. Another important downside of Shriekmaw is that it does hit neither Deathrite Shaman nor Dark Confidant, which is kind of bad to be honest. Phyrexian Revoker can be annoying too if they name Sensei's Divining Top.

    BedDeckPlayer (I'll name your BDP from now on), I partly went into your proposal in the above part. As I stated before, I'll give the cards like Shriekmaw, Fleshbag Marauder and Gatekeeper of Malakir a try, although I have some reservations for the reasons I cited before. It's still uncertain whether the deck needs more board presence, but if that proves to be the case I'll definitely resort to Gatekeeper and Shriekmaw because after all, a removal suite containing 4 Shriekmaw (cc2) and 4 Gatekeeper (cc3) doesn't seem too bad due to the bonus of a creature body which can be used to stall or the finish the game more quickly. Furthermore, I can see the merits of Cabal Coffers as well, especially since there's so much broken stuff you can do in black by having a huge load of mana. As you mentioned an Eldrazi as well, I thought of an approach that runs a few more nonbasics (Coffers, Urborg, Volrath) and uses Emrakul or even Ulamog (Vindicate for MBC) to finish the game while Gatekeeper and Shriekmaw serve as removal and board presence. Thereby, Volrath's stronghold wouldn't be the only nonbasic which would make it more reliable. I think that such a deck is conceivably viable, but testing has to show it yet.



    Do you disagree with my estimations or have you got some further suggestions? I still welcome every comment.

  11. #11

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    You made a list with Arena and Crucible with no LotV. I'd question your acumen in the field of mono black control.

  12. #12

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    What does LotV stand for? Leyline of the Void? If so, why would that card be so important to run? Or are you speaking of Lord of the Void (wtf)?

  13. #13

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    What does LotV stand for? Leyline of the Void? If so, why would that card be so important to run? Or are you speaking of Lord of the Void (wtf)?
    Liliana of the Veil

    I agree with the other posters, your curve is too high. Also, why only 3 wastelands? Why not run 8 fetches if you're running top? It'll give you much better card selection. Not to mention, you definitely want liliana, since she pressures your opponent's hands, whereas you can discard your lands and then play them with crucible. Also, you have way too much removal. You're going to be packing a lot of dead cards, and it won't help against combo. Again, this is why you want liliana; she doubles as both board control, and she rips combo decks apart if they get a slow start. I would also cut the grave titans and batterskulls, and probably use some combination of tombstalker, abyssal persecutor, and phyrexian obliterator. Maybe even gray merchant of asphodel. Either that, or run recursive threats like bloodghast that generate crazy card advantage, especially since you're running a crucible engine.

    I forgot to mention: deathrite shaman. Seriously. Don't even run green, just use him for the ramp and the reach. He wins games by dealing 6-8 damage per game on average, and he makes you a turn faster, which is important in a deck like this.

  14. #14
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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Shriekmaw's removal can be restrictive but it is almost never dead. How many times will you run into MB or all artifacts in a legacy tournament on average? Probably once, maybe twice if you are unlucky. Most decks that run artifact creatures or black creatures run other colours as well. Since your deck has plenty of removal, you can just hit the DRS/bob/revokers/etc with your other removal.

    Although tbh, shriekmaw is a pet card of mine. I never build MB without a few copies of it and a volrath :P

  15. #15

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I suspect that your removal suite core should consist of:

    Liliana of the Veil
    Ultimate Price
    Go for the Throat
    Shriekmaw

    The reason you go for Ultimate Price over the others is that there aren't that many cards that both it and the 'Maw can't hit (DRS or Emrakul), whereas GftT can hit both. GftT can hit everything but Revokers and Affinity. From the board, you can bring in Engineered Plague and other answers. You might also want Hero's Downfall in your suite, as it's a mono-black way to hit Jace and Tezzeret.

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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    The reason you go for Ultimate Price over the others is that there aren't that many cards that both it and the 'Maw can't hit (DRS or Emrakul), whereas GftT can hit both.
    Rules stuff:

    I am not sure if I am understanding you properly, but it sounds like you are saying that Ultimate price and shriekmaw cannot hit Emrakul but GftT can.

    Emrakul has "protection from colored spells", so only shriekmaw in your list can kill him.

    When you cast (or evoke) shriekmaw, the text "When Shriekmaw enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature." is a triggered ability from a Permenant (shriekmaw). Since Emrakul is not an atrifact, not black and does not have protection from Permanents, it is a legal target and it will be destroyed by shriekmaw's triggered ability.

    On that note, shriekmaw and fleshbag marauder are nice cards to have in hand when your opponent casts show and tell.

  17. #17

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedOfDark View Post
    Rules stuff:

    I am not sure if I am understanding you properly, but it sounds like you are saying that Ultimate price and shriekmaw cannot hit Emrakul but GftT can.

    Emrakul has "protection from colored spells", so only shriekmaw in your list can kill him.

    When you cast (or evoke) shriekmaw, the text "When Shriekmaw enters the battlefield, destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature." is a triggered ability from a Permenant (shriekmaw). Since Emrakul is not an atrifact, not black and does not have protection from Permanents, it is a legal target and it will be destroyed by shriekmaw's triggered ability.

    On that note, shriekmaw and fleshbag marauder are nice cards to have in hand when your opponent casts show and tell.
    AS if the Giant Elder God wasn't hardcore enough, I forget that he has protection from colored spells.

  18. #18

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Illusions View Post
    Liliana of the Veil

    I agree with the other posters, your curve is too high. Also, why only 3 wastelands? Why not run 8 fetches if you're running top? It'll give you much better card selection. Not to mention, you definitely want liliana, since she pressures your opponent's hands, whereas you can discard your lands and then play them with crucible. Also, you have way too much removal. You're going to be packing a lot of dead cards, and it won't help against combo. Again, this is why you want liliana; she doubles as both board control, and she rips combo decks apart if they get a slow start. I would also cut the grave titans and batterskulls, and probably use some combination of tombstalker, abyssal persecutor, and phyrexian obliterator. Maybe even gray merchant of asphodel. Either that, or run recursive threats like bloodghast that generate crazy card advantage, especially since you're running a crucible engine.

    I forgot to mention: deathrite shaman. Seriously. Don't even run green, just use him for the ramp and the reach. He wins games by dealing 6-8 damage per game on average, and he makes you a turn faster, which is important in a deck like this.
    I don't think that the curve is too high to be honest. Keep in mind, this is a control deck, which means that your main goal is to survive the early game and win by superior (and high-costed) cards in the late game. The more you lower the overall cost of your spells, the more you'll probably end up with significantly weaker spells: I can't afford running too many 1 for 1- but have to rely on cards that actually create card advantage (Infest/Damnation). It's definitely important to pack some cheap spells that engage your opponent on the first turns as well, because otherwise he can just save his counterspells for your more powerful spells, but you always have to focus on keeping the business density as high as possibly (Sensei's Divining Top, TS, Hymn, Crucible, Arena, Scrying, BS, Grave Titan, Sorin, Damnation). However, I can concede that the removal count is a bit high considering that there's still a bit of combo and control in legacy, even though creature decks appear to represent the majority. Right now, I would agree that the deck looks one-sided on the creature.dec-matchup and that this could be alleviated by running more versatile cards, namely Liliana of the Veil, which was proposed by many of you. The more I think about her, the more I can conceive her to be an asset, mostly because of her mentioned versatility but also because of her ability to handle noncreature permanents. I'll have to think about what to cut from the deck to fit her in. Then on the other hand, I have to reject your cards suggestions for the the finisher role, because I deem the cards you proposed to be way inferior to those I have chosen. As far as the 'threat' density is concerned, it appears to be pretty low, which is the case with most control decks btw. For this reason, you have to make sure that your finishers are equipped with some sort of 'immunity' or at least resiliency against the commonly played removal (Stop, Bolt, Decay, Punishing Fire). All those cards your suggested to not provide this ability while Batterskull, Sorin and Grave Titan are all pretty invulnerable to removal. Altogether, I feel that your suggestions tend to be more suited for a midrange deck, which is clearly not the strategy of this deck.

    SpeedofDark, my thought was also that Shriekmaw's restrictions could be of not much consequence because you still have a large number of removals beside of it, but from my experience this turns out to be true only to a limited extent in reality, because your either have no other removal at your disposal or are forced to handle your opponents threats immediately, which is particularly true for Dark Confidant to a smaller extent for Deathrite as well (turn 2 Shardless Agent, Liliana or turn 3 Jace can be game-decisive). That's why I still feel somewhat uncomfortable with running him as my primary removal. One has to acknowledge though that its potential against S&T is huge, which is why one should think of ways to make him work properly. How would your removal package look like if you were to run MBC right now?

    Darkenslight, while I agree that Liliana of the Veil and Shriekmaw are good cards and should be included in a sensible way, I can't imagine why Ultimate Price and even Go for the Throat would be any better than the cards I already run. Their upside is that they're instants which can be advantageous sometimes, but on the other hand the cost 2 mana (Daze, Spell Pierce) and still have some limitations, which is why I consider Innocent Blood and Diabolic Edict as highly superior. Furthermore, I already have 3 Hero's Downfall in the deck because the ability to handle walkers is indeed an huge improvement. I contemplated about Engineered Plague as well, but figured that there was no real point of running in in the SB when my MD already addresses the creature-decks so extensively.



    I repeat myself, but I still rejoice about any new comments in here, so feel free to post your opinions please!

  19. #19
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    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I'm still not sure if Lili of TV is that great for your deck, as you lack recursion and have just few sources of CA. Maybe increase the number of fetches and CoWs, so that you may use the fetchlands for mana development, card filtering and feeding Liliana. But I wouldn't play too high number of them, as Stifle exists, life loss matters and real Swamps add mana.

  20. #20

    Re: Mono Black Control - Yes, I'm serious.

    I played monoblack a while ago when the meta was infested with tempo deck because it's fun to deny their main strategy with only basic and no fetch. Some new card has been released so probably I'm missing something.
    As first impression I agree that the deck is a little slow a lacking of win condition; I mean you've got only 2 batterskull (5 cmc) and 2 sorin + 2 Grave titan (6 cmc).
    As a more deep analysis:

    -Land:I'd play a couple more fetch, stifle is less used than a while ago so you can indulge in more fetch not only for taking away land from your deck but also for have more shuffle effect for SDTop, it's already been suggested but Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is really good even 2-3 it also make your fetch and wasteland give black mana.

    -Removal:I think you're playng a little too many removal, against deck with few or no creature you've got 13 useless card, is nearly 25% of the deck. Liliana of the Veil enter here as 3-4, 4 is not bad because even if you have 2 in your hand and you resolve the first you can toy a little with -2 and play the other or just let it feed it to the -1. I used to play Gatekeeper of Malakir as an edict but with a 2/2 body to hit my opponent; Hero's Downfall is good enough for its ability to target PW but I still wouldn't go over 10 removal between Liliana, gatekeeper and downfall.

    -Discard:It's ok here, I used to playCabal Therapy because I played 3 Bitterblossom but thoughtseize are fine. Remember Liliana help here with +1.

    -Draw: I'd play 3 Top, it's good to have but I don't need more than 1; Phyrexian arena, I used to play Bob akaDark Confidant but if you keep your mana curve so high arena is better(but it cannot hit the opponent), about Skeletal Scrying, you said the gate is a suicide deck but with this, thoughtseize, arena and fetch you're on the same boat, and your only way to gain life is a batteskull after turn 5 or sorin after turn 6 if they are allowed to enter the battlefield or you're going to suicide before the opponent attack you once, I used 2Umezawa's Jitte but you need more creature to be able to use equipment reliably.

    -Finisher: First you need more finisher, on analysis sorin is too slow if you start with -3 and proceed with +2 it take you 6 turn after the at least 6 turn(best case scenario where you make land drop each turn) probably if I had to pay 6 for sorin I'd rather pay 7 forKarn Liberated. Batterskull per se is a good card but again is slooow, you need 5 mana with no kind of acceleration, the fact that there are (nearly) no way to destroy basic land don't make 5-6 cmc finisher without acceleration good. I don't think Grave Titan is good in this deck.

    The main problem of this deck is it slowness, if you're a control deck the most important thing is how to close games, is useless control and being incapable of close game. Remember that the greater weakness of black is it's impotence to topdeck mode and 4 of your finisher are creature so if the opponent topdeck a creature removal you'r probably screwed.
    There are 2 way to close the game: the aggro way and the combo.

    To be aggro you need more creature and you need them soon enough to start erode the opponent hp while you try to keep control of the game with discard and removal, remember you're black so no brainstorm-ponder and reactive game like blue can, you have to seize the moment.
    So at the time I used 4 bob, 4 batman(Vampire Nighthawk), 3 gatekeeper, 4 Oliterator, 3 bitterblossom with 2 jitte but I don't know if meanwhile something better has been released. As an alternative you can try a more "Poxish" approach with bloodghast or nether spirit but the race will take a more time, more so those 2 creature suffer from Swords to Plowshares and Deathrite Shaman, I don't really recommend them nowadays.

    The combo way is a lot harder for many reason, first of all the combo with black that come to mind are the dark depth(+Vampire Hexmage and/or Thespian's Stage) and Leyline of the Void+Helm of Obedience, the problem are that both combo require 2 pieces in game and you still have no way to protect them from topdeck answer, second to find them you have to rely on SDTop and arena because all good tutor are banned from the format.

    Another tip, no matter what strategy or what card you want to you you need some accelerator, I used to run 4 Dark Ritual for explosive start with land ->Ritual->Thoughtseize+Bob/Hymn or to make an obliterator turn 2, but ritual have the downside of being less usefull lategame(well usually, in a deck with 5-6c mc finisher probably not). The alternative is Chrome mox it give you less explosiveness but more long term advantage.

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