No speed, nor consistency. How could that work?Originally Posted by Purple Blood
If such "strategy" exists, you would already see UWR blade or UR burn players siding in Show and fatties, switching to combo deck after board.
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
I would imagine it would basically play like the more controlling versions of Modern Twin decks. The idea is you're not an all in combo or control deck but you hedge against both strategies. You can also board in such a way to tweak the deck toward one strategy or another depending on the match-up.
IIRC, there was a "Twin-Blade" list floating around that tried to do that sort of "control into combo" thing: https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16910&d=304595&f=LE
IDK that it'd work with Show and Tell, though, since you'd be giving the opponent a way to slip a threat past all your counters, and then you'd have to remove it at a mana disadvantage since you're the one casting Show and Tell. I think the idea that the Tap-Guys can block and control the board while the Twin can generate value makes it easier to justify that combo in a control shell, whereas the Show and Tell/fatty cards would just be dead cards in a control players grip.
EDIT: Purple Blood and I are apparently on the same wavelength, though I am the slower typist evidently
Haha yup!
I just like that play-style myself dunno if it would actually work. I may test this out later on. If I do I'll try to report back.
The only thing *everyone* seems to agree about in the Post-DRS meta is that anyone who has ever thought that Reanimator was cool will be trying to force it. Leyline has seen a ~40% price bump online in the last 4 weeks, and it's showing up as a 3-4x in a lot of SBs. And Reanimator is one of the few non-trick decks that can outrace SnS.
Graveyard hate is pretty binary: it's like Vintage - if everyone in the room slacks off on Dredge hate, it collectively increases the expected power level of bringing the deck. If 40% of the room is packing multiple Leylines in the board, it's going to discourage casual Reanimator players.
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
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Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
JPA probably has forgotten more about Sneak and Show than I know, but I've tried Leyline of the Void and I think it's an absolutely putrid card in this deck. It's fine against BR Reanimator, but UB Reanimator is the deck that everyone wants to jam right now. UB almost always has some bounce like Echoing Truth in the board, and even if the UB player didn't know you were boarding in Leyline against them, they'd still board in Echoing Truth to deal with your fatties. The second problem is that Leyline isn't symmetrical like like RiP and we have Griselbrands of our own. That means UB can just Thoughtseize us, bin a Griselbrand, and then Reanimate it through Leyline. The cherry on top is that you cant even realistically cast it if you draw it, and sometimes you'll draw a reasonable hand that doesn't have a Leyline and now you're 7.5% to draw a completely dead card. No thank you.
From nothing came teeth.
I played a large tournament(129 men) yesterday with sneakshow. I was ill and had a lot of trouble in my personal life these days, didn't do well but a friend in my local store played sneakshow too and won the tournament. Although I dropped early but would like to share some thoughts and my report with you.
Thanks to my recent testing and advice from JPA（I am really thankful）, I gave up the idea playing omnisneak and settle down on a more traditional list. I played 3 Emmy, because I expected there could be a lot of combo and miracle(I was right). And I played one fire/ice in the main for the dnt match-up, which I didn't meet in the whole game. I played EE in the sb, which proved to be excellent. And I initially planned to play a simian spirit guide and a through the breach in the main in place of 2 omniscience to fight reanimator, mirror and decks with bridges. Now I feel regretful for giving up this idea. Also, I had considered playing 3rd spell pierce over 2nd flusterstorm but didn't make any change at last, which was obviously a mistake.
Now for the report.
match one vs miracle (0:2), game one we both mulliganed to six and he was stuck on 2 island. he played surgical extraction on my ponder, which surprised me a lot. I tried to play sneakattack with 2 fow and 2 blue cards in hand, but he had 2 fow and a flusterstorm. Then he played snapcaster mage to flashback his surgical on my sneakattack, which I don't think really matters, but I never drew any other action then...
game two, I was wrong to believe time was not enough for game 3, so I played very hurriedly. he was stuck on two island too, and I played through the breach into a griselbrand through the boseiju. I drew 7 cards and got a bunch of lands, which forced me to drew other 7 cards. I discarded carefully in case he had the surgical. Next turn I played show and tell into sneakshow with abrade in hand, he put down a humility. Then he began to draw lands and I got nothing relevant to answer the humility.
match two vs mud (2:1), I was very frustrated about the loss, mulliganed to 6 but I had only one ancient tomb. I played the tomb and pass. My opponent played trinisphere on turn two but I drew island on turn 3 and began to play my cantrip. My oppent then resolved chalice on one and a lodestone golem. Finally, I played my second tomb and resolved a sneakshow with one mountain untapped. I was at one life at the time and have Emmy and Griselbrand in hand. I pretended that I have nothing and pass quickly. He played warping wail to creat a 1/1 token eot, which was really scary. On his turn, he heastiated for a while but decided to attack with two creatures. I activated the sneakattack into griselbrand blocking his golem and sneaked into emmy on my next turn to hit him down to one life. He left a chalice and a land on board and we both began to play topdeck game, I finnally drew a fire/ice to shoot on his face.
game 2 was fast and stupid, he played spyglass turn one naming sneakattack, I showed a Emmy on turn one(I indeed boarded out 2 snt) but he put down an Ensnaring Bridge. I did expect he might have something weird for my snt, but didn't expect that he had the bridge because he himself should play a lot of big creatures, and considering he had mulliganed and I did not have other cards relevant, I was actually forced to play the snt. He then played three chalice and I just conceded.
game 3 was fast and stupid too. I mulliganed and kept a hand with snt(again!) ,griselbrand and some cantrips. I played turn too snt and this time he did not have anything relevant.
match 3 vs mirror (1:2), game one, I resolved sneakattack and won. game two, he had boseiju and played through the breach. game three, I mulliganed and had boseiju and a lot of actions but didn't see a creature.
match 4 vs pox(2:0), I mulliganed and spell pierced his dark ritual on his first turn,(I feared he was on storm and played ritual, duress to kill me). But then I found I was wrong and got my hands emtpy due to his discard spells and lilianna. I finnally resolved sneakattack and sneaked a griselbrand to get away his liliannna with 6 counters. I drew 7 cards and got no creature and cantrip, next turn I was killed by his factory and bloodghust.
game 2 I kept a 5-lands hand, which was horrible but keepable against heavy discard decks. I countered his chains of mephistopheles and got the grielbrand on the board at last.
game 3 I forgot the details but I won the game very guickly.
Match five vs Tezz control (1:2) game one was fast, I mulliganed and kept a hand with 2 show, grisel and some lands. I showed on turn 2, and he had the bridge.
game 2 was really long and grindy. I played very well, didn't make any mistake, baiting his fow and echoing truth on his brige finnally and attack with my griselbrand.
game 3 was long and grindy too. I made two big mistakes in series at critical time. First I spell pierced his chalice for no reason(which was really irrelevant, because I had the kill in my hand) while he had two lands untapped after I confirmed on this. the second was after I realized I had made such a stupid mistake, In panic，I responded to this chalice with sacrificing my lotus petal for brainstorm (I planned to sacrifice it for my ee in hand, and set up a through the breach kill next turn). I have never made such stupid mistakes in any sanctioned games in my life, it is really hard to understand why I did such a play. But the good thing is I was too tired at that time and finnally could drop to have some rest.
I was overall satisfied with SNT, although there are ton of decks with bridge and chalice in my meta, which means the process of the game is much harder to control than ever. EE really shines as a sideboard card. I would play one more copy next time. Omniscience sucks whole day(I board it out against tezz, pox and mud), maybe it is not worth playing it and there are other ways to beat containment priest anyway.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
Please please don’t turn this into a control deck like twin. All the control players will jump onboard the moment you do and Show and Tell will get banned within an year.
The control players already got Top and Shaman killed, don’t let them take another core staple away from us.
Relax, control players already have something better than sneakshow package as finisher, for example, rest in peace+helm of obedience.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
Played TPSs list from MTGO today, -1 Flusterstorm Main +Pierce (I am short Flusters...) It's dumb how clean the list is right now, assuming you don't have to worry about more than 1 DnT match-ups.
Honestly, I had completely the wrong reaction. Defense Grid is Sooooo Goooood making matches better/easier that you have like 8 loose slots. You can afford to run the set of Leylines if you think you are going to play against GY decks, and you can afford to mulligan to them aggressively in those matchups.
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
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Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
Arcane Artisan
In addition to appearing in Bob Huang's 5-0 list from this week, he also top 4'd the team open this weekend, dropping only one game on camera.
He played Arcane Artisan and it looked great to me. Better than the one-of Through the Breach, dodging spell pierce and flusterstorm seems big. And when you don't have a creature in hand, you can just loot.
What is everyone's thoughts on this development? It also appeared in this weekend's Classic top 16.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/122354
Also of note: 4 copies of Grafdigger's Cage in his SB (no leyline).
Arcane Artisan is the real deal. Through the Breach is such a mediocre card in non-Cunning Wish lists that, Artisan feels like a strong upgrade. I was a little surprised to see it against TES since my first impression was that it's a card that will help you grind against fair blue decks, but given that storm goes after your hand pretty hard with discard, having a card that lets you get down half the combo and dodges Duress does seem pretty appealing, and the camera match showed that. Looks like it's bought out everywhere now lol.
From nothing came teeth.
I think it is a meta choice. If your opponent cannot remove a blue creature after sideboarding, Artisan is fairly effective. If they can, it may just bait a REB.
I hear they got twisters miles wide in the Midwest.
One Question ¿How sideboarding versus decks with karakas? For exemple Death & Taxes, Blood Moon is good?,the Omniscience in or out?
(disclaimer: son is DnT, I'm SnS, so we play this a lot at home)
- 4 FOW
- 4 counters (mine is 3 spell pierce 1 flusterstorm)
+ 2 pyroclasm
+ 2 abrade
+ 2 blood moon
+ 2 wipe away (this is going off soon in my next iteration of sideboard)
Omniscience stays in. Leonin Relic-warden and phyrexian revoker are to be answered by abrade (used for any artifact hate like chalice, bridge, needle, etc) and pyroclasm (goblins, elves, DnT, generally creature based decks). Blood moon against karakas and ports, wipe away against karakas and anything else e.g. leonin relic-warden, revoker, prelate, etc etc so that's 6 hate cards for their lock pieces (1 karakas on the board, 2-3 revokers, 1 leonin-relic-warden)
Thanks,thanks, thanks, I think karakas is one of the worst card for the deck and Arcane Artisan can't do anything with karakas because the copy is a legend too.
Do you sideboarding Arcane Artisan versus Death and Taxes?
If you are that worried about Karakas, Pithing Needle and Blood Moon take care of it handily and without much fuss.
What is the difference between classic S&S and the version with 3 omniscience and cunning wish?
In which matchup do you prefer the version with wish, and against RUG deck which do you prefer?
I've always played the classic version and I do not know which one to choose now... plese help me
Traditional S&S is more streamlined and consistent with Sneak Attack being a much more prominent part of the gameplay. Omnishow is a lot more reliant on resolving a Show and Tell because it leans a lot more heavily on Omniscience (cunning wish is kinda a putrid card if you don't have a Omniscience in play). Generally speaking, the Omnishow version is better at beating decks with cards that traditionally hose regular S&S (Karakas, Ensnaring Bridge, o-ring effects, etc). Omnishow is also a lot better in the "mirror" match if you're playing against traditional S&S. So if your meta has a lot of stuff like D&T, Maverick, Stompy decks with Ensnaring Bridge, and even other S&S players, then the omnishow version would be better.What is the difference between classic S&S and the version with 3 omniscience and cunning wish?
In which matchup do you prefer the version with wish, and against RUG deck which do you prefer?
I've always played the classic version and I do not know which one to choose now... plese help me
By "RUG deck" I'm going to assume you mean RUG Delver, and in that case traditional S&S is better. The allure of Omnishow is that sometimes decks can beat your plan of cheating a fatty into play and you need some additional game to go over the top of them. RUG Delver is not one of those decks. They are, for the most part, just stone dead once you cheat a fatty into play.
If you have a really good read on your local meta and think that Omnishow would be a better choice, then go for it. In an open meta, I think that the traditional version is better. It's more consistent and doing what the deck wants to do - Omnishow gets incongruent hands more often and loses to itself a little more as a result. Also, traditional S&S gets a real sideboard which makes it easier to adjust to certain matchups. Omnishow has to devote a certain amount of the board to wish targets and the instant speed combo kill. It gives the deck more of a tool box feel. This has some pros and cons - on the plus side you'll never have to feel like an idiot and pick up your cards if your opponent manages to stick an Ensnaring Bridge game one. On the other hand, cards like Release the Ants and Fireminds Foresight are completely worthless except in the very narrow situation of when you're comboing off. I personally hate the feeling of having "wasted" sideboard slots like that, but YMMV.
From nothing came teeth.
Won a small tournament with traditional list last night，finally this deck worked well for me once again.
2-0 grixis control
I got there through a lot of discards and counters on game 2.
2-1 RIP UW control
I showed on game one baiting for counter because I assumed the only 3 cards in his hands might contain a fow. But it turned out that he put a helm down and killed me next turn.
2-1 Post Eldrazi
I lost game one because I couldn't find a creature in time.
Team Blood, Beijing.
Currently play: Sneaky Show/ Lands
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