[Deck] Sneak and Show

[JPA]

I got a new idea. What if we sided board grove and punishing fire combo? Sweet huh?

No.

This has been discussed in this thread before and we came to the conclusion that there is no point in playing slow, clunky spot-removal over sweepers like Pyroclasm.

[Juice11]

1. If your meta is infested with DNT, petal is good against Thalia.
3. I don't like cutting sneak attack here. I personally run 1 Elesh Norn and 1 Massacre Wurm, and board out two griselbrand against DNT.


@Juice11 I think this deck already has a vintage version, see BOM list.

I actually just picked up a massacre wurm because there are a few D&T players by me. I looked for the BOM list, but couldn't find it. Do you have a link by any chance?

[GoblinZ]

I actually just picked up a massacre wurm because there are a few D&T players by me. I looked for the BOM list, but couldn't find it. Do you have a link by any chance?

The wurm is awesome against DnT, I play Elesh Norn mainly because I don't have a second wurm. With this kind of SB, you don't need cut SNT against DnT any more.

All the vintage sneakshow lists are categorized into Rogue on Tc Decks, including the bom list last year. I feel really sorry I can't give you the link now because of my f***ing internet.....

[dcosiem]

No.

This has been discussed in this thread before and we came to the conclusion that there is no point in playing slow, clunky spot-removal over sweepers like Pyroclasm.

Really? I guess I ain't reading all of the threads. Thanks for the notice.

[mulder]

What are the reasons to use Petal instead of Simian Spirit Grunt?
Grunt is uncounterable, provides a 2/2 body when needed and can give you a surprise answer to Daze or Spell Pierce. The only disadvantage i see is that it only gives red mana... .

[menace13]

What are the reasons to use Petal instead of Simian Spirit Grunt?
Grunt is uncounterable, provides a 2/2 body when needed and can give you a surprise answer to Daze or Spell Pierce. The only disadvantage i see is that it only gives red mana... .

Mainly to drop early Show and Tell and keep hands with Sol Land, Petal, and Cantrips. I played SSG in few dailies on mtgo when Emidln refused to return Petals he borrowed from me. I like having the flexibility of blue mana over Surprise Daze payments, sneaky Sneak Attack activation, or surprise REBS.

[Unassigned]

Had a little 17-player tournament at my LGS last night and ended up taking 4th due to some poor tiebreakers.

Ran with the following list:

3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Volcanic Island
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors

4 Lotus Petal

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show & Tell

4 Griselbrand
4 Emrakul
1 Ashen Rider

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm

2 Jace TMS

1 Fire / Ice
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Sideboard:

2 Through the Breach
2 Blood Moon
2 Pyroclasm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ashen Rider
1 V Clique
1 Pyroblast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Fluserstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shattering Spree


Round 1: Ian w/ Merfolk

Win G1 quickly, but games 2 & 3 I draw no counters. Game 3 he Turn 1's a Chalice of the Void (his only one in the Sideboard) on 0... I smile and say OK. I then proceed to draw 3 Lotus Petals in a row with no Brainstorm to go with my fetchland. M'k...

Round 2: Brendan w/ UWR Delver

Game 1 I mull to 3, having no less than 3 monsters in hand every mulligan. I keep a hand of Island, Force of Will and Ponder. Needless to say, I lose this game. Game 2 I get down an early Blood Moon and protect a Sneak Attack to win. Game 3 was a very close match that I should have lost. I keep his board empty with Pyroclasms, but he navigates them effectively by not overcommitting. I'm at 4 life, staring down his board of 5 lands, flipped Delver, and a True Name with Sword of Feast & Famine equipped. He has no cards in hand. I have Emrakul and Sneak Attack in hand and draw Brainstorm with four land and a Lotus Petal in play. I Brainstorm to see Griselbrand and two Show & Tell. Since my only way I can possibly win is to attack with Gris this turn to stay above lethal, I put one Show back with Emrakul on top. Show Sneak into play and sneak Gris in, gaining 7 with no cards in hand. He draws and swings in with both guys and passes. I draw, activate Sneak and swing in with Emrakul when he realizes he forgot to hold the flipped Delver back.

Round 3: Nick w/ Sneak & Show

I get Game 1 with Sneak Attack backed by Flusterstorms and a pair of Force's. Game 2 we cantrip away, but I can't find any of my creatures. I counter 2 Sneak Attacks in a row, but he has a third and I lose the resulting counter war. Game 3 I was able to draw into multiple counterspells while he was locked on three land. I power a Sneak Attack into play and win with Emrakul while he put himself to 15 with Gitxian Probe, fetchlands and Forces.

Round 4: Ian w/ Belcher

I get Game 1 with a turn 2 Griselbrand, knowing that I have enough countermagic to stop his mana spells if he puts a Charbelcher into play. He drops LED into play and scoops after two attacks. Game 2 I keep another Turn 2 Gris hand and he plays a turn 1 Xantid Swarm. My countermagic is nullified and he had just enough mana to cast and activate Charbelcher. Game 3 I have a counter-heavy hand and bide my time. I stop his attempts to go off with Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce until I draw Sneak Attack for my Griselbrand into Emrakul and win.

Round 5: Adam w/ BG Pox

Game 1 is a bit of a grind because while scouting after matches, I noticed that he never had a Wasteland in hand or in play. Ever. So I made the assumption that he didn't play/own them. I was wrong and he Loam locks me and even has some weird Urborg/Spreading Algae shenanigans. Either way, my deck forgives me and allows me to eventually get a Sneak Attack into play thanks to Lotus Petal. I bid my time and wait for a fetchland or other source of red mana for my Emrakul/Griselbrand in hand. I get it and we go on to Game 2. I keep a land heavy land and know he's boarding into heavy discard, so I keep a 5 land, Force and Griselbrand hand. Turn 1 Inquisition of Koz bricks and we play land-go for several turns. He hits a few of my lands and then lays a Chains of Mephistopheles into play. This slows me down a lot and he eventually finds a Crop Rotation for a Dark Depths/Thespian Stage win. Game 3, I lay down a Turn 2 Blood Moon and he plays no basics. We play Draw/Go for two turns and I find my Sneak Attack for the win.


Most of my sideboard was not utilized, as I wasn't paired up against High Tide, 12 Post, ANT or the Dredge decks that were running around. I wasn't impressed with my addition of V Clique in the sideboard either. I think I would have been happier with that slot being either a Boseiju or another Pyroclasm. I won't be running this configuration in Somerset next weekend, because this is mainly tuned for my local meta. Hope to see some of you in New Jersey!

[Lawyer]

Hey, I run the version of sneak and show found here,


http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7851&d=245217&f=LE

I'm having a lot of trouble playing against merfolk. They get to being 5/5s very quickly and there is enough counter magic to disrupt my deck. How should I play against this deck. Should I remove swan song from my sb for red elemental blast?

Thanks for your time

Thanks rxavage. The primer is still in progress, more sections like "How to identify you play against X" (similar to what apple713 did) and "Tips and Tricks" will be added soon.


@apple713: I appreciate your work, but there are a few mistakes in what you wrote; you also left out UWR Delver completely. Here are some corrections:



I will add my own version to the matchup-section in the primer soon.

[JPA]

Thanks for the report, Adam, and good luck in Somerset!

Hey, I run the version of sneak and show found here,


http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=7851&d=245217&f=LE

I'm having a lot of trouble playing against merfolk. They get to being 5/5s very quickly and there is enough counter magic to disrupt my deck. How should I play against this deck. Should I remove swan song from my sb for red elemental blast?

Thanks for your time

As I wrote in this thread before, I don't like the Todd/CVM-list (which Boswell copied). Merfolk is a tough matchup, no doubt. If you manage to go off on T2-4 with Daze-backup, it's usually enough, but they do have some pretty explosive starts, often paired with counters.

REB is a pretty strong sideboard-card in general, I wouldn't go without at least one or two. If you want to hate out Merfolk specifically (like Sulfur Elemental vs Death and Taxes), you could swap the Pyroclasms for Volcanic Fallouts. Hate-fatties like Massacre Wurm are another option.

[somethingdotdotdot]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

[Captain Hammer]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

Dig through time gets you two cards that you want, intuition only gets one. That's very relevant since you want to combo with free counter protection and play 8 threats, 8 enablers and 8 free counters so the odds of getting both missing pieces is very good when you dig.

[JPA]

I like Intuition a bit more, at least in theory (haven't tested with Dig). Generally, you want to spend Turn 3/4/5 comboing off, not cantripping. I feel it's really slow and cheaper cantrips might just be more effective overall.

[apple713]

dig would at best be a 1-2 of in sneak and show. It would replace the intuition spot but that being said it doesn't actually do anything better than intuition. It is likely to end up costing the same as intuition and achieve the same goal of assembling your combo. Anyone who's played with the deck knows that 7 cards may not be enough sometimes. For such a large investment you want more solidified results. Also note that many versions have cut intuition entirely from the deck for more reliable means of searching like SDT.

Lets consider optimal situations where you can cast this card quickly
T1 fetch cantrip (2 cards in grave)
T2 Fetch cantrip cantrip (5 cards in grave)
T3 fetch spell pierce (7 cards in grave) DTT eot

so maybe on T3 after fetchalnds and cantrips its possible. I think it's likely to have an average of T4 in our deck.

Intuition is T2 possible and gets exactly what you need. Very rarely will you keep an opening hand where you do not have any combo pieces in hand.


just my 2 cents...

[catmint]

Dis is much slower (avg turn to cast) as intution and not as powerful in assembling the combo fast. Even intution is slow sometimes, but has enough power to be a solid 2 of in the maindeck as it can bait counters EOT and give you exactly what you need. Imagine you dig into a cantrips and need to spend another turn to find what you actually want. My verdict: way to slow for maindeck but people will try it out because it is such a cool effect.

Only relevant matchup where it is better than intuition is miracles, but without thinking about too much I can't imagine having Dig in the sideboard over the powerful hate cards sneak can play.

Dig might be better in the monoblue dreamhalls deck where card advantage matters more and you care much less about the board position/life total (speed) since you kill in the turn you go off. Without being an expert in this deck I think it plays more cantrips and could cut some preordains for that. Maybe it gets lejay to stop playing with a single leyline in the maindeck.

[Unassigned]

Given that all of KTK is now spoiled, have any of you given any thought to adding Dig Through Time into the deck as a 1-2 of? I think the card is very similar to intuition, which certain versions still run as a 1-2 of. I wanted to compare the two a bit and see if any of you guys think dtt is better than intuition:

Pros of intuition
- as long as there are 3 copies of a card left, it's a 3 mana instant demonic tutor
- castable t2 with island/sol land
Cons of intuition
- cant find a card if less than 3 are in the deck (usually relevant when goin off the second time)
- weak to surgical extraction postboard
- significantly lowers the odds of drawing the tutored card afterwards (relevant if the card you intuition for gets countered)

Pros of dtt
- results in card advantage--which means you could potentially get both enabler+fattie
- wont reduce the chance of w/e you get
- can shrink opposing goyfs
- utilizes a resource that is otherwise unused in this deck (gy)
Cons of dtt
- wont necessarily find the card you want
- probably wont be cast until turn 3-4

So what do you guys think?

I don't like either of these cards in Sneak & Show. Treasure Cruise perhaps has a place in Omni and/or Dredge, but I can see too many instances where it's a dead card in your hand.

As for Dig Through Time, I don't like the idea of depending on blind luck to hit your combo pieces. Think of when we've missed when drawing 7 with Griselbrand? I can see that easily happening here. Intuition is cheaper, more direct, gets you exactly what you want and just overall wins out over DTT.

[dcosiem]

Anyone who replaces Intuition for Dig Through Time is an idiot. Intuition get's you want you want instantly oppose to the latter card. We are playing a combo deck that requires 2 cards to win. It's not storm where we're fishing for a set of cards to win that will number out more than 3 usually. Sneak and Show is just an all-out powerful deck when it runs well. You can luck out easily and win matches 10 minutes into your round. Tell me you haven't done that before?

[J-Funk]

I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.

If we fail to combo off the first time we attempt, and you all know how that feels, Dig Through Time is the BEST way to refuel to go off again. Pick up a combo piece+cantrip, post board silver bullet plus protection spell, two copies of combo piece, the results are varied and valuable.

This is not comparable to drawing seven of griseldaddy since we're always looking or something very specific off him, usually either petal or FoW. Dig gets you options, it opens up lines, it gets you back into the game. I will be testing two or three of them in my deck.

Anyway, I just took third in a 30 man top-8 event yesterday, pre DDT changes with this list:


4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
1 Fire // Ice
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
3 Spell Pierce
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
3 Flooded Strand
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island

1 Ashen Rider
2 Blood Moon
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Divert
1 Pithing Needle
1 Shattering Spree
1 Fire // Ice


Only losses were to Bant Maverick in the first round (Counterspells, Teeg, Karakas was an issue) and Miracles in the semifinals. The loss to miracles was brutal:
I have three show and tells, an emrakul, and a jace in hand. Three land in play
1. I play show and tell, we fight over it, he uses up all his countermagic to counter it.
2. He passes
3. I play show and tell, I put in Emrakul, he puts in Venser for the bounce.
4. Attack with Venser, pass
5. I play my third Show and Tell, put in emrakul.
6. He untaps, plays Jace, bounces.
7. I draw land, play Jace, he pyroblasts it.
8. I draw Sneak attack, forced to tap out to try to resolve it.
9. He wear//tear 's it.

Totally brutal, I thought I had it locked up. If I had Griselbrand instead of Emrakul in hand we would have gotten there. Alternatively, a fifth land would have let me get one Emrakul hit in at least. Rough beats.

I still contend that this is a top deck in the format, and I'm not sure why people have been shying away from it. The only changes I will be making is probably removing the Diverts from the sideboard. when they are good, they are good, but I don't think they are relevant enough. Not sure what I will be replacing them with yet, maybe Swan Songs or Boseiju's

Looking forward to testing Dig Through Time in the future.

[JPA]

Congrats on your result, Jeremy! Miracles is a close matchup and if neither player gets the nut-draw it gets even closer and grindier.

I will definitely test Dig through Time, because I find it hard to evaluate its power without actually playing it.

Gus Schade made Top 8 of SCG Indy with a new take on the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=73450

I messaged him on Facebook and am curious to hear his thought process behind the list and how it performed.

[Lans89]

I played 5 games with my Miracles vs Sneaky Show playing 2x Dig, and it was awesome! I lost 1-4 and in 3 games Dig found the winconditions or the FoW + blue card. It isn't even hard to cast both if you find them! But when playing Sneaky Show I would still be worried with all those Needles in peoples sideboards (to fight Miracles lately)...

[klaus]

I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.

This.