[Deck] Sneak and Show

[apple713]

What would Young Pyromancer even be good against? You can make a handful of extra 1/1 creatures, which do nothing ultimately. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

I've been testing with a Burning Wish-based version of Show and Tell, and early results are decent. It gives you access to some nice removal and/or discard game 1, as well as the 5th-7th copy of Show and Tell in the face of discard, and less dead cards against opposing Show and Tell decks. Don't ask me for a current build (yet), because it's still in testing and probably will be for a while. It's promising though.

curious to see the list when u have something but is increasing the S&T consistency really worth it? Sneak attack is preferred to S&T, at least imo and i think others would agree. additionally it only gets a enabler as opposed to either.

this reminds me of when personal tutor was considered.

[JPA]

Three Sneak and Shows in the Top 16 of SCG Indy.

[GoblinZ]

Hello everyone, I just pick up this deck and I take "Chas" Hinkle's GP list with a little tweak in the sb.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...pwas13/welcome (I am sorry I cannot open the page of TCdecks right now)

My current sb is like this ( I am still tweaking it for my meta):

2 REB
2 defence grid
2 TTB
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 wipe away
3 pyroclasm
2 cage

With this list, I have several questions:
1. Agaisnt death and taxes, I am not very sure what to take out and what to bring in. I guess I should take out 3 pierce 1 fow 1 SnT 1 probe for 3 pyroclasm 1 wipe away and 2 TTB. Is that correct? I donnot know wether I should take out intuition or not.

2. Agaisnt Bant, since they have tons of permissions and permanent hate (clique, teeg, pikula or even humility) post board, I really donnot know how to side board agaisnt them. Should I take out some Snt here for the sake of their humility and Knight of Reliquary?

Waiting for your suggestions.

[nodahero]

I'm an odd duck but against tempo decks I actually board out basically all my counters and simply switch over to Defense Grids, Blood Moons, and Clasms. It has done way better for me then trying to fight a counter war.

[GoblinZ]

I'm an odd duck but against tempo decks I actually board out basically all my counters and simply switch over to Defense Grids, Blood Moons, and Clasms. It has done way better for me then trying to fight a counter war.

Thank you man! But I think the problem with defense grids in bant match up is that they can just tutor their qasali pridemage to deal with it. If you drop your counters and also lose your grid, then it seems there is no chance to win the counter war.

[koba]

Hello everyone, I just pick up this deck and I take "Chas" Hinkle's GP list with a little tweak in the sb.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...pwas13/welcome (I am sorry I cannot open the page of TCdecks right now)

My current sb is like this ( I am still tweaking it for my meta):

2 REB
2 defence grid
2 TTB
1 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 wipe away
3 pyroclasm
2 cage

With this list, I have several questions:
1. Agaisnt death and taxes, I am not very sure what to take out and what to bring in. I guess I should take out 3 pierce 1 fow 1 SnT 1 probe for 3 pyroclasm 1 wipe away and 2 TTB. Is that correct? I donnot know wether I should take out intuition or not.

2. Agaisnt Bant, since they have tons of permissions and permanent hate (clique, teeg, pikula or even humility) post board, I really donnot know how to side board agaisnt them. Should I take out some Snt here for the sake of their humility and Knight of Reliquary?

Waiting for your suggestions.

The sideboard plan against dnt looks fine to me. I would keep the intuition and would not sideboard out fow, but a petal or probe instead.

Bant is a hard one to sideboard against. It also depends on the list; bounce becomes better if you know they play humility for example. I would probably take out 2 show and tells for 2 ttb and the intuition, a petal and another card (spell pierce?) for 2 rebs and a clique.

[nodahero]

The beauty of the situation that you described is very subtly elegant. If they are using Zenith for Pridemage (which given its a one of if I'm not mistaken) is that they are spending 3 mana there and then a 4th to activate the him. That gives you a solid window to go for something with the only options to worry about are likely Daze or Force. I would take those odds. It is very similar to trying to go off turn 1 on the play. The difference is they have active daze but with ALOT less cards in hand. I will take those odds every day personally.

[GoblinZ]

@koba. Thx, I tested the dnt match up tonight on my own. Intuition is good post board, I can intuition for pyroclasm. As for bant match up, it is really a headache. Although I may never met a bant player in any tournament, I think I should spend some time thinking what exactly I should take out or bring in.

@nodahero. That makes sense to me. I think I saw your SCG top 16 list before, so I know you run 4 defense grids. My current list contains only 2 copies of grids. I think if I follow your suggestions, I should at least add one more copy.

[JPA]

Defense Grid is fine against Bant, they usually have some number of Swan Song / Flusterstorm / Envelop in their sideboards and it also shuts off Vendilion Clique in response to one of our enablers.

[GoblinZ]

shutting off clique sounds great...I think I should cut something to make room for the third defense grid.

[nodahero]

Personally I would cut the blasts. The matches you bring Grids in are the same you would normally bring in Blast and they are a rather big non-combo.

Additionally, I personally would rather run echoing truth over Wipeaway. I never have the mana I want to cast Wipeaway and combo. Especially when there are Thalia's running around. I personally think she is the MOST IRRITATING hate bear to deal with. I often find myself feeling like its a pseudo timewalk that smacks me. READ the above as I think the one more mana isn't worth the split second. The only time I would care about split second really is against Miracle's and that is a very small portion of the format.

[JPA]

Personally I would cut the blasts. The matches you bring Grids in are the same you would normally bring in Blast and they are a rather big non-combo.

Additionally, I personally would rather run echoing truth over Wipeaway. I never have the mana I want to cast Wipeaway and combo. Especially when there are Thalia's running around. I personally think she is the MOST IRRITATING hate bear to deal with. I often find myself feeling like its a pseudo timewalk that smacks me. READ the above as I think the one more mana isn't worth the split second. The only time I would care about split second really is against Miracle's and that is a very small portion of the format.

Blast is extremely important. Grid is our best card against Tempo and also good vs counter-heavy versions of Esper and Miracles. Blast is way more versatile, being great in the mirror and very versatile against Miracles, Tempo, Shardless BUG, Reanimator, etc.
I would not play more than 2 Defense Grid if you already have Blood Moon which serves a similar purpose against Tempo (shutting off most of their counters).

Wipe Away has been so much better for me than Echoing Truth (what I used to play in the past). It is great against Miracles, Reanimator, Storm and the mirror. I wouldn't call that "a small portion of the format" ;-)
It's also a way to shut off Karakas against a sneaky Griselbrand, while E-Truth does nothing against Karakas. The additional blue mana doesn't matter; if we are stuck at two mana we usually lose, anyway.

[nodahero]

Taken from page 2 of this thread by me, "While Wipeaway has the potential to be impressive I dislike the idea of needing UUR1 on the combo turn. Yes, I suppose you can go Sneak Attack go, take your next turn to filter and bounce on their end step and then combo... but I would rather not leave my Sneak Attack unprotected like that."

UR1 is significantly easier on the mana base. The only think that Wipeaway answeres that Truth doesn't is Karakas, but that is why we bring in Bloodmoon anyway. Also the argument is less important because you can take the extra U out of Wipeaway and have it be a R and simply reactivate Sneak Attack anyway; plus that doesn't take a card.

[JPA]

The only think that Wipeaway answeres that Truth doesn't is Karakas

Echoing Truth won't be relevant against an opposing Griselbrand and doesn't give you the random "oops I win" vs Infernal Tutor.

If Echoing Truth works better for you, no problem. I stated why I think Wipe Away is better, but maybe some day I will encounter a situation that changes my opinion.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

How do you think wipe away helps against infernal tutor? If you think you can bounce LED in response to the tutor, you are incorrect. They pop led before passing priority. Even in response to that, wipe away doesn't work because led is a mana ability, making it speed 3 and impervious to bounce, as it's ability will already have resolved.

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[JPA]

How do you think wipe away helps against infernal tutor? If you think you can bounce LED in response to the tutor, you are incorrect. They pop led before passing priority. Even in response to that, wipe away doesn't work because led is a mana ability, making it speed 3 and impervious to bounce, as it's ability will already have resolved.

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Bouncing a land lol

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Wow. I failed there.

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[nodahero]

I can see the value in your situations to be sure. I fully agree with the Storm being a point to your argument. I just don't think the Grisel point is valid EXCEPT in the Show and Tell case. If they Sneak it, all they do is replay it.

[JPA]

I just don't think the Grisel point is valid EXCEPT in the Show and Tell case. If they Sneak it, all they do is replay it.

I was referring to Reanimator. It's not as good in the mirror, I agree; but still better than Echoing Truth.



I played in a 5-man-all vs all - "tournament" yesterday, featuring forum prominence such as Lemnear and Sawatarix.

Went 4-0, defeating Vial-Deadguy 2-0, bUrg 2-1 (sawatarix), Bugs Bunny (BUG Control) 2-0, Miracles 2-0 (Lemnear).

Considering how bad my matchups were, I am very happy with how my current list is performing and will probably bring it to our GPT next saturday.

[Einherjer]

It's been awhile since I played SneakAttack, and I don't plan on coming back - but there has been a discussion forcing me to come in here and ask what you think of one very specific aspect of boarding.

I was talking with a friend of mine about the 15th sideboardslot in his Miracle. I did suggest a 4th copy of REB, just as my SB is featuring it. When asked why I would do that I ofc mentioned alot of aspects, containing the Show and Tell - MU. Well, he was under the assumption, that good Sneak-Pilots board out their Show and Tells again Show and Tell, loading up on Sneak+Through the Breach. Following this thought boarding REB isn't that much of a priority any more, as there are other options and stuff.

I can totally understand the process of thought behind this very Argument, though I do not agree on its conclusion. And that's why I am here. Those of you, who are really experienced with this deck:"Is boarding out Show and Tell a valid method against Miracle" and "Is it general knowledge to do so?"(I just can't believe the second one).

Thank you very much for the time invested.

Greetings