[Deck] Sneak and Show

[HeartNana]

@All sneak show pilots - has anyone tried the black splash maybe? I've recently read an article of Owen Turtenwald from 2013 involving black splash for thoughtseize main. I was wondering if anyone tried it maybe. Thx in advance

Hey Ragdoll ;)

I`ve tried the black splash I think a year before and it wasn´t worth to splash black.
It can make sense if you are on the mono blue omnishow deck, but in sneak show you want as much as cantrips as you can have & the rest is combo and counter back up.

greetz ;)

[Ragdoll]

Don't own any copies of u-sea, and haven't play with or against such build. But if that build exists, the manabase would be extremely vulnerable.

Manabase is here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...neak-and-show/ It doesn't look that bad

Hey Ragdoll ;)

I`ve tried the black splash I think a year before and it wasn´t worth to splash black.
It can make sense if you are on the mono blue omnishow deck, but in sneak show you want as much as cantrips as you can have & the rest is combo and counter back up.

greetz ;)

Yeah I'm using black in omnitell and I was wondering if the same thing would work in here. Just out of curiosity what were you playing with? I mean a full playset of thoughtseize? Some other numer? Or maybe additional black cards in side besides main thoughtseizes?

Anyway thx for your answers :)

[quadich]

hey guys,

long time lurker first time poster :D.
So i have been following this thread for a little while now ( though i have not read everything that was posted).
i have been wondering, also since the deck used to be a very solid tier 1 deck up to the point where death and taxes was created
with the sole purpose of beating this deck: shouldnt this deck, with regards to the decline in death and taxes decks and the decrease
in containment priest as a sideboard card, allow the deck to be a tier 1 deck again? Although i have played this deck a little at my LGS
i am still a novice at it.
Thus i would love to hear a master explain to me why this deck is not the feared beast it was before.

[HeartNana]

Manabase is here: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...neak-and-show/ It doesn't look that bad




Yeah I'm using black in omnitell and I was wondering if the same thing would work in here. Just out of curiosity what were you playing with? I mean a full playset of thoughtseize? Some other numer? Or maybe additional black cards in side besides main thoughtseizes?

Anyway thx for your answers :)

I played 2 ts in the main and 2 in the sideboard. I didn`t run any other black cards in the sideboard.

[HeartNana]

hey guys,

long time lurker first time poster :D.
So i have been following this thread for a little while now ( though i have not read everything that was posted).
i have been wondering, also since the deck used to be a very solid tier 1 deck up to the point where death and taxes was created
with the sole purpose of beating this deck: shouldnt this deck, with regards to the decline in death and taxes decks and the decrease
in containment priest as a sideboard card, allow the deck to be a tier 1 deck again? Although i have played this deck a little at my LGS
i am still a novice at it.
Thus i would love to hear a master explain to me why this deck is not the feared beast it was before.

The problem with Sneak Show and being a Tier 1 deck is the fact you have so much very hard mu, then it was for 2-3 years.
1) Miracle is getting stronger and stronger with sideboard cards like wear/tear and containment priest and council judgement and so on, and also a very fast clock with mentor can sucks.
2) Death and Taxes is our lifetime nemesis, because white as sad as it is has access to the fucking best cards against us.
3) Shardless Bug for me was longtime the best MU preboard i can have after elves and something like that, but this deck can be also explosive with hymn and force backup, following by liliana. And the most of the lists are running more discard in the sideboard, flusterstorms and also some list meddling mage and needle and so on.
4) Eldrazi depends on the list, but against the uw version and the mono white version it`s almost unbeatable, you can sit and watch them kill you bro :(
5) The number of Bug Delver is also raising, which is also a very hard mu in my opinion. For a few months they were running the stifle and daze version but nowadays they switch to the heavy discard version paired with counters and fast clock than can also be very hard to beat.
6) Grixis Pyromancer, obvious the same as 5)
7) ANT and TES are also trying to beat faster as before because they want die too chalice, and this mu`s are also even very close.
8) The number of Reanimator Decks and also Tin Fins are raising and this is also a very bad mu for us :(
9) The Lands decks switch to discard in sb and a faster clock with could also be sometimes not so funny :(
10) All in all you can say the number of our good or best Matchups like elves, every Esper build, every fair deck are going fewer and fewer.

Hope that helps a little bit.

greetz Elmar ;)

[Svyelunite]

Newest episode of Legacy's Allure is posted! SCG's very own Chris VanMeter joins us to discuss the ins and outs of Legacy's most broken combo deck, Sneak and Show. Check it out!

Webcast: https://youtu.be/WigoU5ZPcdk
Podcast: https://archive.org/details/LegacysA...ndSneakAndShow

[mistervader]

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11945&d=268385&f=LE

The same player just got Top2 again, in a 238 players event.

This looks beautiful! Stupid question, though... what's the boarding plan with a deck like this? Who do you board the Mentors in against?

[JPA]

A pretty stock list made Top 8 of the 200 player SCG Columbus Classic, going undefeated in the Swiss. Going up to 3 Blood Moon seems like a good call at the moment.

[cvk]

Hi,
Maybe I have overseen that in a previous post (my apologies, if so), but what is the general mulligan advise
assuming a pretty stock list?
Thank you!
Christian

P.S. Just wanted to say, that this is an extremely well-written primer and I appreciate that a lot!

[JPA]

what is the general mulligan advise

That's highly matchup- and play/draw-dependent. Against an unknown opponent you should try to keep a proactive hand that can combo off early. Don't keep hands without any combo-pieces, unless you have multiple cantrips.
If there are some keeps that you are unsure about, feel free to post them here.

[cvk]

Thanks for your reply!

If you have just a single blue land/fetch-land, then I guess the decision to keep the hand would also involve the number of cantrips you have in the hand:

Would you keep a hand with a single cantrip and a single blue (fetch) land on the play or on the draw, respectively? (provided, the rest of the hand looks good)


Also a completely different question:

Recently you played an Omni-Tell and Sneak and Show Hybrid: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/399023

How did you like it in comparison to a plain Sneak and Show? A little slower? More flexible? Less/more consistent?

Thank you!

Christian

[JPA]

Would you keep a hand with a single cantrip and a single blue (fetch) land on the play or on the draw, respectively? (provided, the rest of the hand looks good)

A hand with one cantrip, one land and five "good" cards (combo-pieces + permission) is a keep most of the time. It gets a little worse on the draw, as your cantrip gets exposed to discard spells.

How did you like it in comparison to a plain Sneak and Show? A little slower? More flexible? Less/more consistent?

Omnisneakshow is definitely a strong choice at the moment and capitalizes on the "rogue-factor". If you win via Omniscience in game 1, your opponent is extremely unlikely to bring in stuff like Needle, and might get surprised by Sneak Attack. Cunning Wish provides a lot of flexibility and the deck is very good in a meta full of Eldrazi and Miracles.
It's generally a little slower than Sneak&Show (needs more setup at times), but still faster than Omnishow (thanks to Lotus Petal and the higher possibility of a two-card combo kill).

[GoldenCid]

A pretty stock list made Top 8 of the 200 player SCG Columbus Classic, going undefeated in the Swiss. Going up to 3 Blood Moon seems like a good call at the moment.

What does sudden shock eat?

[Ciubulu]

What does sudden shock eat?

deck's nemesis: containment priest

[dynamic_e]

Anyone try the transformational sideboard with Mentors? I've seen a few lists, between a 5-0 league on Modo and the Japanese lists. Seems like a great surprise transformation like the mentor plan in TinFins(which i've been having a blast with)

[GoldenCid]

deck's nemesis: containment priest

Sir, you have saved my life lol

[oracL3]

A hand with one cantrip, one land and five "good" cards (combo-pieces + permission) is a keep most of the time. It gets a little worse on the draw, as your cantrip gets exposed to discard spells.



Omnisneakshow is definitely a strong choice at the moment and capitalizes on the "rogue-factor". If you win via Omniscience in game 1, your opponent is extremely unlikely to bring in stuff like Needle, and might get surprised by Sneak Attack. Cunning Wish provides a lot of flexibility and the deck is very good in a meta full of Eldrazi and Miracles.
It's generally a little slower than Sneak&Show (needs more setup at times), but still faster than Omnishow (thanks to Lotus Petal and the higher possibility of a two-card combo kill).

Hi, i m testing the new version of this deck with Omniscience in it. I would like to know the use or cunning wish because it seems to me a dead card when i draw it. In the case i went of with Omniscience on the board, i can take firemnid in the sideboarding, but in early game or other situation ???? Ty

Inviato dal mio TF300T utilizzando Tapatalk

[JPA]

I would like to know the use or cunning wish because it seems to me a dead card when i draw it.

You can get Through the Breach or Intuition, depending on which combo pieces you're missing. Cunning Wish is basically never dead, it can find Breach/Intuition to set up the combo, Flusterstorm/Pyroblast/Surgical Extraction as protection or disruption and bounce spells / removal to buy time or get rid of hateful permanents.

[Cetan]

Decklist:

20	Combo Package
4	Show and Tell
3	Sneak Attack
3	Omniscience
3	Emrakul
3	Gristlebrand
3	Cunning Wish
1	Split Decision
	
21	Mana
3	Island
1	Mountain
7	Fetchland
3	Volcanic
1	City of Traitor
3	Ancient Tomb
3	Lotus Petal
	
7	Disruption
4	Force of Will
3	Spell Pierce
	
12	Cantrips
4	Brainstorm
4	Ponder
2	Preordain
2	Intuition
	
15	
1	Flusterstorm
2	Teferi's Realm
1	Firemind's Forsite
1	Echoing Truth
2	Kozilek's Return
1	Intuition
1	Pyroblast
1	Sudden Shock
1	Surgical Extraction
1	Release The Ants
1	Eladarmi's Call
1	Boseiju
1	Jace Vryn's Prodigy

Goals:
Have an instant speed win condition
Be resilient to discard
Have a non-bounce answer to hate permanents
Be optimized to beat: Miracles, Death and Taxes, Infect, BUG/Grixis Delver, and Reanimator

Tournament report:
I’ve been playing show and tell decks for about a year now and for the last month I’ve been cycling through UW omni /w mentors, eurekatell, Grixis omni, UB omni, UR omni, monoblue omni, and Sneak and Show. I’ve done well with most of these decks locally but I felt that the list above (work in progress) is going to give me the most mileage against the decks I want to do well against at GP Columbus and what I predict the metagame will be like.

Round 1: Vs Tin Fin (the SCG Classic list /w transformational sideboard)
Game 1: I keep a hand with force of will and turn 2 cunning wish on the draw. When he went to shallow grave the gristlebrand I wish for a surgical, he goes to pact of negation and I force it. I am able to get sneak attack into play eventually and go for the win.
Board Plan: Out Intuition, In Echoing Truth and Flusterstorm
Game 2: Much the same, he rips my hand apart while I float a cunning wish with cantrips. He goes for it and I cunning wish for a surgical again to strip his gristlebrands. I re-assemble my combo and win a while later.
Round 2 (1-0) Vs RBG Goblins
Game 1: I am on the play. He gets out a turn 1 lackey, I turn 2 out gristlebrand with a show and tell, he puts in a matron to get the bounce goblin. He uses caves to cast it to bounce gristle brand, I draw 14, go to 3 after attacks and I was able to find the win in those 14 cards.
Out Intuition, 1 Force of Will, 1 Spell Pierce, in 2 Kozilek's Return, 1 Pyroclasm and, a sudden shock.
Game 2: He ends up mulling to 5. I end up having a quick win in hand and the game ends without conflict.
Round 3 (2-0) Vs ANT
Game 1, I keep a hand with force of will and turn 3 Emrakul on the play. On turn 2 he rips the force from my hand, and sees the coast if clear, I show and tell Emrakul into play the following turn and he kills me on turn 3.
Board: + Flusterstorm, - intuition.
Game 2, I keep a 2 lander with show and tell, Emrakul, ponder, force, and some other blue junk. I ponder into a sol-land and a show and tell. He duresses the show and tell out of my hand and I draw another from the ponder, turn 2 Emrakul and he scoops.
Game 3, He goes for it on a turn 3 win after seeing I don’t have a force of will in my hand. I had a brainstorm and was floating a force of will on my library, counter his infernal tutor after he discards his hand and then kill him a few turns later.
Round 4 (3-0) Vs Big Red.
Game 1 I keep a solid hand with 2 force of wills, a basic island, some cantrips. I’m on the play and go island cantrip. He responds with turn 1 blood moon. It takes about 6 turns to get to 3 lands to kill him but he tries to win twice in that period and I was able to force both of his sneak attacks.
Board: I board out intuitions, a cunning wish and 2 ponders. I board in 2 Teferri’s Realm, an echoing truth, a flusterstorm, and Jace.
Game 2 We both mull to 6, he keeps a turn one combo kill, I had the force of will which I mulled to. That was basically the game.

Thoughts:
I wasn’t really worried about any of the matchups I ended up playing, combo / agro matchups feel great for the deck; however, I’m not sure if my sideboard will sufficiently stand up to harder matchups.

[Daniel89]

This looks beautiful! Stupid question, though... what's the boarding plan with a deck like this? Who do you board the Mentors in against?

I'm curious too, where the strengths and weaknesses of this build are. possibly it's boarded it when the enemy boards the removal out?

edit: missed "the removal"