[Deck] Sneak and Show

[HeartNana]

Hey guys :)

This is the list I am playing at the moment & I am doing very well with it.
I made 2 Top8's the last two local tournaments and after a long testing session yesterday I can say this list is the best at the moment for a meta with lands,loam,grixis delver,miracles,eldrazi,dnt, sneak show mirror and eldrazi

MAIN(60):
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Intuition
1 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Lotus Petal
1 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Mountain
3 Island
3 Volcanic Islands
SB(15):
2 Blood Moon
2 Defense Grid
2 Pyroclasm
1 Sudden Shock
2 Through the Breach
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction or maybe 1 Grafdigger's Cage ?
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pithing Needle
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wipe Away

Best regards Elmar :)

[LRats]

Thx for answer dude :)
I agree with all of your statements.
But the problem will be if the have the new thalia and also karakas then it will be hard for us.

That's what Omniscience is for. If you're still on traditional Sneak and Show your D&T match-up is abysmal anyway.

[Chatto]

I finally gave way, and have made a U-based deck for fun. Right now, I just need a couple of cards for Show and Tell (already have the manabase): Sneak Attack and Emrakul. Could you guys give me a good standard list? I thought about using JPA's list for reference, would that be okay? Thanks in advance.

[JPA]

I finally gave way, and have made a U-based deck for fun. Right now, I just need a couple of cards for Show and Tell (already have the manabase): Sneak Attack and Emrakul. Could you guys give me a good standard list? I thought about using JPA's list for reference, would that be okay? Thanks in advance.

Welcome.

Sneak and Show (2 Jace could be 2 Intuition or 1 Misdirection 1 Preordain, or a mix of those / 4th Probe / anything you want)
Omnisneak

[Chatto]

Welcome.

Sneak and Show (2 Jace could be 2 Intuition or 1 Misdirection 1 Preordain, or a mix of those / 4th Probe / anything you want)
Omnisneak

Thanks, and thanks!

[Fallen_Empire]

Has anyone tried playing with diamond valley? Seems like a great way to gain life after you sneak in the fatties.

[Tokugawa]

Has anyone tried playing with diamond valley? Seems like a great way to gain life after you sneak in the fatties.

For a competitive constructed format(e.g. legacy in 2016), it is not a serious card.

[drude1]

New to the thread. Picked this deck up online and have been enjoying it. I do have a question about Sol lands though. This seems like the one deck where Crystal vein might actually be better than the other ones. You typically only need the double colorless once to cast your bomb spell. Otherwise tapping for one colorless routinely also works well. I had actually one game where I built up enough mana to hard cast Emrakul against miracles using the Crystal vein. Would not have survived the damage from ancient tomb and obviously can't play four city of traders. This is obviously a corner case but the point remains. Anyone else have any thoughts about Crystal vein over ancient tomb or city of traders?

Also, I'm playing the version with omniscience and cunning wish. For people playing that version, why am I not seeing firemind's foresight in the sideboard more often in other people's lists? People just don't want to make the room for it?


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[Koby]

@drude1
Likely the result of exho chamber. Copy/pasta week in and week out.

[JPA]

This seems like the one deck where Crystal vein might actually be better than the other ones. You typically only need the double colorless once to cast your bomb spell.

We're rarely an all-in deck. A reusable Sol-Land is much better than Crystal Vein, outside of budget reasons.

Also, I'm playing the version with omniscience and cunning wish. For people playing that version, why am I not seeing firemind's foresight in the sideboard more often in other people's lists? People just don't want to make the room for it?

I have seen exactly one Omnisneak list without Firemind's Foresight so far. Seems pretty nonsensical to run Release the Ants without Firemind's Foresight.

[LRats]

@fallen Empire. Diamond Valley is garbage. We can't afford to run a land that doesn't produce mana, and is only relevant when we use Sneak Attack. It's just a waste of a slot.

@drude1. We really don't want to be sacrificing our lands. We want our Sol lands to stick around as long as possible. They can help us get to a point where we can hardcast Force if we have to, and they are also great against taxing effects. As for Firemind's Foresight, just about every Cunning Wish list runs it, so I don't know what lists you are looking at (unless the only one you've looked at was the one JPA linked).

[snaga]

The biggest selling point for Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors over the likes of Crystal Vein, Sandstone Needle or Saprazzan Skerry is the ability to still function around taxing effects in your development turns.
Being able to cast Brainstorm / Ponder / Impulse through a Thalia or Thorn of Amethyst or Daze or Spell Pierce AND being able to use those same land in your combo turn is a big plus.

[quadich]

The thing with crystal vein is that it is only really better in cornercase scenarios that are much rarer than the situation where the sacrifice clause makes it worse.

Anyways against what meta would you guys recommend the cunning wish list? I have been testing it and it really only feels worse against delver decks, which have become a rather small portion of the metagame ever since the rise of the eldrazi.

[drude1]

So, the arguments being laid out for the other Sol lands don't really make sense to me. First, against taxing effects, the vein still taps for one so you can pay your Thalia costs etc and not take 2 damage every time while they are beating you in the face. You can also advance your land drops against their Rishadan Ports without losing your City of Traitors. You could make an argument that the other two are better at hard casting force of will recurrently but how often does that come up? I guess I will continue to play the deck and see when there are situations that I really wish my Crystal Vein was a City of Traitors.

[genuine fugazi]

Sol lands allow you to jam S&T or Sneak Attack turn after turn when you have multiples on hand.

[drude1]

Sol lands allow you to jam S&T or Sneak Attack turn after turn when you have multiples on hand.

Yeah, this I can get behind to some degree, although I think I would still use Crystal Vein over City of Traitors simply for the reason that I really want to advance my lands and if you go for a Show and Tell on turn 2 and it gets stopped, then you are holding lands in following turns because you don't want to lose the City. I have been playing Painter forever and Eldrazi for months now and I like City in Painter because I can use it to play a Blood Moon and then play more lands after. It's just a necessary evil in Eldrazi but you end up losing it all the time and that is why you typically only see one or two copies in those lists because you want it to be the last land you need to play. This doesn't happen with Sneak and Show.

[LRats]

In your situation where you're casting a turn two S&T City is still better than Vein. You have to sacrifice the vein to do it (barring Lotus Petal), getting you 2 mana. With City, you can float the mana and then play another land on the next turn. This still lets you cast another S&T or use the mana to get around Thalia. If you sacrifice Crystal Vein then you are already behind the 8 ball waiting to build back up. Letting City of Traitors die is not a big deal if you have nothing else to do with it. You can also get the same situation as Painter with your Blood Moons.

[drude1]

The difference being in Painter though that you get to keep your City of Traitors AND play new lands after blood moon resolves. My point otherwise is that you tend to stall on lands when you are playing City of Traitors. The worst is when you are getting wastelanded and the only land they leave you with is your city. Generally, City of traitors feels much more like a one time use land than does Crystal Vein in this deck. I think I just need to test it some more and see what feels right. Overall though, the deck is fun to play. The delver MU feels a little iffy but it's fun to play with brainstorms and ponders for a change.


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[LRats]

Being left with only city shouldn't happen that often. The first land you want to get is almost always a basic Island.

[RStien321]

I had actually one game where I built up enough mana to hard cast Emrakul against miracles using the Crystal vein. Would not have survived the damage from ancient tomb and obviously can't play four city of traders. This is obviously a corner case but the point remains.

You could make an argument that the other two are better at hard casting force of will recurrently but how often does that come up?

Come on now. Hardcasting a 15 mana creature in Sneak and Show is a reason to play Crystal Vein, but we are ready to quickly dismiss casting a five mana counterspell?

Crystal Vein is a fine budget option - no doubt, but City of Traitors has been a staple in the deck for years and for good reason. Crystal Vein has been around since 1996, if it was the right call to play it, it would be in the stock manabase by this point.

This is a deck that, at times, wants to jam show and tells right into counter magic. This is especially true when faced with an early clock (Delver for example), or when multiple Show and Tells and/or Sneak Attacks are in hand.

Some scenarios:
Ex. Turn one: Lotus Petal, City, Show and Tell. Turn two, float two mana, play island, cast show and tell.
Ex. Turn two (with island already in play): play City of Traitors, cast show and tell. Turn three, cast another show and tell, Turn four, float two from city, play land, sneak attack.

These are definitely not corner cases, and are scenarios that come up at least once a tournament playing Sneak and Show. I haven't played as long or as much as some on the board here, but I've played Sneak and Show for the last three years. Crystal Vein is a one shot pony for accelerating out a Show and Tell, while City of Traitors can give multiple turns of two mana.

Yeah, this I can get behind to some degree, although I think I would still use Crystal Vein over City of Traitors simply for the reason that I really want to advance my lands and if you go for a Show and Tell on turn 2 and it gets stopped, then you are holding lands in following turns because you don't want to lose the City.

Why are you worried about developing your lands? Be more worried about being able to develop an Emrakul, Griselbrand, or Omniscience. You don't have to play out City if you don't need to, but holding back a turn to develop your lands is a good way to get beat down by a delver, or let your miracles opponent draw their relevant answers.