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Thread: [Deck] Sneak and Show

  1. #21

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    The reference to the Gemstonemind was, i think, a joke. It is referenced in the 3rd post on here I think. I saw it also, so I know he isn't crazy.

  2. #22
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by nodahero View Post
    The reference to the Gemstonemind was, i think, a joke. It is referenced in the 3rd post on here I think. I saw it also, so I know he isn't crazy.
    The Gemstone Mine - go was a reference to the "how to identify"-section.

    Edit: Added a "Tips and Tricks"-section to the primer.

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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Good re-write to the archetype, JPA. The updated matchup sections is very neat and concise.
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  4. #24

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Why anybody test Stronghold gambit? Vs fast combo decks like reanimator, tin fins, omnitell, TES, ANT, Belcher, Spiral tide, Doomsday or control decks with few creatures like Miracles, BUG standstill, Pox, lands, enchantress, 12post, Tezzeret control is much better than S&T. GP winner deck only has 10 creatures. I think is an overpowered untested card.

    With 4 main Gitaxian probe could be great, even mirror.

    The price of this card a 0,50 $, I think very cheap.

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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Glad you like it, Koby.

    Quote Originally Posted by atopebenidorm View Post
    Why anybody test Stronghold gambit? Vs fast combo decks like reanimator, tin fins, omnitell, TES, ANT, Belcher, Spiral tide, Doomsday or control decks with few creatures like Miracles, BUG standstill, Pox, lands, enchantress, 12post, Tezzeret control is much better than S&T. GP winner deck only has 10 creatures. I think is an overpowered untested card.

    With 4 main Gitaxian probe could be great, even mirror.

    The price of this card a 0,50 $, I think very cheap.
    It would obviously be a sideboard-only card. And playing 4 Gambit to bring in for Show and Tell against fast-combo and creature-light decks seems just not worth it at all to save 1 mana. I'd rather have specific hate against the fast combo decks in that slot.

  6. #26

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by JPA View Post
    Glad you like it, Koby.



    It would obviously be a sideboard-only card. And playing 4 Gambit to bring in for Show and Tell against fast-combo and creature-light decks seems just not worth it at all to save 1 mana. I'd rather have specific hate against the fast combo decks in that slot.
    Agreed. It's close to "sideboard in 4 Simian Spirit Guides" to get a faster combo. Unnecessary, but cute. If SnT end up getting banned in the future, it might start seeing play in a weird hybrid Sneak/Gambit/TTB deck.

  7. #27
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    I'm really diggin' my singleton Massacre Wurm in the SB. It's great surprising tech and can be a decent finisher.
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  8. #28
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Has there been a discussion about ashen rider? I haven't been able to find it in the old thread and was curious about peoples' thoughts since BBD ran 2 in his sideboard at the invitational. It seems to be really strong in the matchups where your opponent is trying to keep karakas in hand for when you show and tell? Answers karakas very well and other annoying things that they are trying to race/answer. I guess it could function as wipe away. I really don't know what I am talking about and was hoping for some input.

    Thanks.
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by rockout View Post
    Has there been a discussion about ashen rider? I haven't been able to find it in the old thread and was curious about peoples' thoughts since BBD ran 2 in his sideboard at the invitational. It seems to be really strong in the matchups where your opponent is trying to keep karakas in hand for when you show and tell? Answers karakas very well and other annoying things that they are trying to race/answer. I guess it could function as wipe away. I really don't know what I am talking about and was hoping for some input.

    Thanks.
    Ashen Rider is comparable to Woodfall Primus (an old Sneak & Show stand in); in that they both have synergy with Sneak Attack, and remove two problems. They are both useless vs Humility, and that's a big enough reason to second guess their inclusion.

    Karakas can be fought with a second red mana. Ensnaring Bridge needs a removal spell. Humility needs a removal *spell*. Ashen Rider and Woodfall Primus can deal with the two former, but not the latter.
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  10. #30
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    I'm really diggin' my singleton Massacre Wurm in the SB. It's great surprising tech and can be a decent finisher.
    is this is the wrong thread?
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    is this is the wrong thread?
    Jared Boettcher swapped the Sulfur Elemental for a Massacre Wurm in a tournament he played some weeks ago. It's fine against D&T, I guess.

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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    is this is the wrong thread?
    It's mentioned in the primer and I've been using it to some nice results. -2/-2 and the lifeloss to your opponent when you sweep their board (Delver, Thalia, Mom, Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman, True-Name Nemesis, Phyrexian Revoker) can finish them off. It's probably not for everyone, but my meta is crawling with TNN and Weenies, so it's pretty nifty.
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  13. #33

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    This is an exercise I do for my own benefit, where I write up my thoughts on what to sideboard and why. I figure sharing it with you guys (atm only Shardless BUG is done) isn't a bad thing. Any feedback or discussion?

    Version 1.0

    Mainboard:

    4x Emrakul
    4x Griselbrand
    4x Show and Tell
    4x Sneak Attack
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    2x Preordain
    1x Gitaxian Probe
    1x Sensei’s Divining Top

    4x Force of Will
    2x Misdirection
    3x Spell Pierce

    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Scalding Tarn
    3x Misty Rainforest
    3x Volcanic Island
    3x Island
    1x Mountain
    3x Ancient Tomb
    2x City of Traitors

    NOTE: 1x Probe + 1x SDT played over 2x Daze

    Vs. Shardless BUG

    Game Plan : The scary part about playing any UBx deck is that it attacks you on multiple axes. Its extremely tricky to balance fighting their discard with stocking up on counterspells and combo pieces. I’m not sure what the best sideboarding strategy is, but here are a few.
    Leyline of Sanctity : Being attacked on multiple axes is hard. So why not make it easy and just remove one of their lines of play? Opening with Leyline shuts down a huge portion of their deck (6+ cards postboard) and makes the game much more manageable. The downside is we aren’t playing cards like Dream Halls, so the only realistic way to cast Leyline is to open with it.
    Blood Moon : An autowin card that exploits BUG’s tendency to play zero basics. Need to be careful with this strategy as, if it doesn’t come down fast, the opponent might assemble a clock that makes Blood Moon by itself less powerful.
    Misdirection/Divert : These cards are phenomenal in the early game against opposing Thoughtseizes and Hymns and also contribute to the later game plan of resolving a S&T or Sneak Attack. Unfortunately these are more grindy cards in that they sometimes don’t generate card advantage, but the tradeoff is that you can draw them outside of your opening hand and still have them be useful.

    -1 Probe : Gitaxian Probe is the lowest impact draw spell and loses even more stock postboard because we’ll know what they have via Misdirecting/Diverting Thoughtseizes and Hymns.

    -4 Lotus Petal : Theoretically, the game should slow down significantly as focus will transition away from comboing off and towards spending more time sculpting an unbeatable hand through the opponent’s discard and countermagic. Lotus Petal is a card that functions more optimally in scenarios where both players have undeveloped mana because the impact of Petal’s acceleration hits harder in these board states. You can see a logical contradiction between these two points - the game is going to go long, and Lotus Petal loses value as the game drags out. Thus Petal is probably not needed, especially since we’re not really that worried about mana issues in this matchup. Between Cascade and Visions, this matchup is all about generating the right types of value - aka depleting their hand while keeping yours full - and Petal doesn’t contribute to this game plan. Another thing is identifying our goal of having a postboard deck that is super resilient to discard. This requires that our cards have more standalone value, which is why cards like Brainstorm and Ponder are wonderful. Lotus Petal has little standalone value and is not a strict part of our combo, so it can be cut postboard.

    -1 Emrakul*** : If space is really (note: really, REALLY) needed, a singleton of this card can be cut. Postboard we should expect anywhere from 2 to 4 Lilianas (and maybe a few JTMS), which a S&T’d Emrakul is not good against. However, the plan in most postboard games is to Sneak in Emrakul/Griselbrand, so the argument that Lili trumps a S&T’d Emrakul is somewhat invalid. For that reason I would advise against cutting the Emrakul. Additionally, unlike Lotus Petal, Emrakul is a core combo piece and, though in hand its value/purpose is quite linear, the card is still very necessary to draw into. That being said, trimming one of these is definitely an option and its always good to be aware of available options.

    -2 Show and Tell*** : I don’t have too much experience with this card in this matchup, but looking at recent lists would suggest BUG has nothing frightening to put into play off our S&Ts. Worst case scenarios involve them putting into play a clock or an extra land that lets them follow up with a scarier card like Liliana or Jace. This sideboarding option is more of a Game 3 strategy that is calculated after seeing what the opponent has boarded in (ex. Caleb Durward sided Ensnaring Bridges in his 4C Cascade deck) and is strictly to be replaced by Through the Breach. Because this is a combo deck, we must always keep in mind postboard ratios of combo pieces and try our best as we sideboard to keep those ratios as high as possible.

    -1 Force of Will*** : The argument behind trimming a copy of Force of Will is that the matchup is going to be grindy and Force of Will’s strict card disadvantage is not good in grindy matchups. However, I find this rationale applies mostly when fair decks are fighting other fair decks. For combo, the amount of Force of Wills needed is relative to how many things you’re expecting to need to counter. The following are the relevant cards I feel should be expected postboard:
    • 4x Thoughtseize
    • 3x Hymn
    • 2-4x Liliana
    • 2-3x JTMS
    • 4x Force of Will
    • 2-3x Counterspells (Flusterstorm, Swan Song, Pierce, etc)
    That’s actually a lot of relevant cards that we need to keep under control. To do so probably requires the 4th Force of Will, which will be operating in tandem with multiple Spell Pierces, Misdirections, and counters from the sideboard. You should only really consider trimming Force of Will if you know their list isn’t threat-heavy. Otherwise its safer to just keep Force of Will in as a catch-all to whatever they slam.

    -1 Spell Pierce*** : The same argument for Force of Will applies here.

    NOTE: Because we are playing a combo deck we should follow a rule of not sideboarding out too many essential pieces. If we dilute our 60 cards to the point where it can’t execute its primary function, we are doing something conceptually wrong. The combo is the decks greatest strength, so remember to have a postboard deck that keeps the combo intact!

    NOTE: Red*** indicates a sideboard change I would not personally advocate, though it is still an option to be aware of as sideboards will constantly change for different metas. Green is the sideboarding option I would probably do, given this list and a generic meta.

  14. #34
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    @ AnziD:

    I would never board out Lotus Petal except against UWr Miracles and maybe the slow combo mirror. Especially against discard, you want to go off as fast as possible , since they attack your hand more than your spells on the stack. If you board out Lotus Petal, their discard will destroy you.

    The list you posted is already pretty well equipped to fight Shardless BUG. Since you have a lot of cantrips and SDT, boarding out Force of Will seems fine to me. Your plan should just be to power out threat after threat and Spell Pierce + Sneak Attack should still be enough to get around their planeswalkers.
    I just don't like Force of Will against non-combo-discard-strategies.

    Also remember that you have to board out Misdirection if you play Leyline of Sanctity in the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Ashen Rider is comparable to Woodfall Primus (an old Sneak & Show stand in); in that they both have synergy with Sneak Attack, and remove two problems. They are both useless vs Humility, and that's a big enough reason to second guess their inclusion.

    Karakas can be fought with a second red mana. Ensnaring Bridge needs a removal spell. Humility needs a removal *spell*. Ashen Rider and Woodfall Primus can deal with the two former, but not the latter.
    Ashen Rider is great in the mirror while Woodfall Primus isn't. If BBD expected a lot of mirror and D&T I understand his decision, even though it might still be too narrow.

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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by JPA View Post

    Ashen Rider is great in the mirror while Woodfall Primus isn't. If BBD expected a lot of mirror and D&T I understand his decision, even though it might still be too narrow.
    These matchups seem like a poor inclusion for the premium sideboard slots. Gilded Drake and Pithing Needle, respectively, are much better suited. Needle in particular, is likely better overall due to its cost and flexibility.
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  16. #36

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Needle doesnt answer Humility, Revoker, or Bridge.

    Personally I think Woodfall is better probably better then Rider primarily becaue of the Sneak Attack interaction although I can see the destroy target non-CREATURE part being a huge hinderance.

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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    I think Wipe Away is the best of the bunch and is the most resilient answer. You can easily setup the field with a Sneak Attack and Emrakul in hand, then bounce the problem card and Annihilate.
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  18. #38

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    While Wipeaway has the potential to be impressive I dislike the idea of needing UUR1 on the combo turn. Yes, I suppose you can go Sneak Attack go, take your next turn to filer and bounce on their end step and then combo... but I would rather not leave my Sneak Attack unprotected like that.

  19. #39
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    I agree with this. I ran with Wipe Away for quite a while only because I didn't want to worry about Mom or extra counters but I think I would have preferred to have a 2cc bounce without the split second in most of the situations I faced.
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  20. #40
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Say I play wipe away out of my sideboard, what decks do I bring it in against? It seems like any deck can run humility out of the board even elves and I could potentially board in wipe away in every match up... Also, every deck basically runs karakas.

    Sorry, I'm new to the deck so I am trying to become more proficient in the ideas behind it.
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