[Deck] Sneak and Show

[JPA]

The stock sideboards usually have 2 Through the Breach in them, so the swap of 2 TTB for 2 Show and Tell seems logical against Miracles, which usually has a lot of Show and Tell into creature hate (sandbagged Karakas, Venser, Jace, ...).

In the sideboarding guide of the primer I have Progenitus, Vendilion Clique and no TTB in my sideboard, so there is no need to side out Show and Tell.

4 REB would be really good against that particular list, but since it's not the stock list, your friend's statement has some truth in it. You should expect your Sneak&Show opponent to board out some amount of Show and Tells and bring in 2 Through the Breach, making your REBs a little worse.

[JPA]

By the way, I did some testing against Bant and found that Nodahero's suggestion of boarding out all counters for bombs like Defense Grid, Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Pyroclasm is a pretty good way to go against them. It's still a terrible matchup, though.

[koba]

It's been awhile since I played SneakAttack, and I don't plan on coming back - but there has been a discussion forcing me to come in here and ask what you think of one very specific aspect of boarding.

I was talking with a friend of mine about the 15th sideboardslot in his Miracle. I did suggest a 4th copy of REB, just as my SB is featuring it. When asked why I would do that I ofc mentioned alot of aspects, containing the Show and Tell - MU. Well, he was under the assumption, that good Sneak-Pilots board out their Show and Tells again Show and Tell, loading up on Sneak+Through the Breach. Following this thought boarding REB isn't that much of a priority any more, as there are other options and stuff.

I can totally understand the process of thought behind this very Argument, though I do not agree on its conclusion. And that's why I am here. Those of you, who are really experienced with this deck:"Is boarding out Show and Tell a valid method against Miracle" and "Is it general knowledge to do so?"(I just can't believe the second one).

Thank you very much for the time invested.

Greetings

I keep show and tell against miracles. Showing a griselbrand is still gg most of the time, even if the opponent has karakas or venser of whatever (except humility). You still get to draw seven or 14 cards, which should seal the deal.

Siding out two show and tells for ttb is reasonable I guess (although I do not like it), siding out 4 is not. 6 win conditions are not enough in this matchup imo, especially with potential sideboard cards like needle from miracles.

Even in the unlikely case where most sneak show players side out all show and tells, pyroblast is still a strong sideboard card. Hitting brainstorm/ponder is often the right play anyway.

[Nocley]

I'm beginning to think as well that bringing in Defense Grids is better than extra counters in the board.

Right now I'm running Bottcher's MD and the following board:

2 Divert
2 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon

I'm highly considering taking out the Divert/Swan Song package for Defense Grids and a Wipe Away (or two if I take out flusterstorm as well). The question is, what is everyone's thoughts on having this approach to counters opposed to having the counters for storm as well?

[JPA]

I'm beginning to think as well that bringing in Defense Grids is better than extra counters in the board.

Right now I'm running Bottcher's MD and the following board:

2 Divert
2 Swan Song
1 Flusterstorm
2 Through the Breach
1 Ashen Rider
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyroclasm
3 Blood Moon

I'm highly considering taking out the Divert/Swan Song package for Defense Grids and a Wipe Away (or two if I take out flusterstorm as well). The question is, what is everyone's thoughts on having this approach to counters opposed to having the counters for storm as well?

You kind of answered your question already. If you are fine with your combo-matchup worsening, adding Defense Grid to your sideboard will improve your tempo-matchup a lot. You still have a high amount of counters main deck to fight off opposing combo decks and the recent popularity of UWR Delver might make the swap worth it.

Even though Jared had great sucess without a single bounce spell in his sideboard, I would always run (at least) one to have outs against Ensnaring Bridge, Humility and Mother of Runes + Revoker/Gaddock.

[nodahero]

Ashen Rider. while not bounce, does answer basically all the opponents hate save humility. I have had decent success with the Rider as of late. If they have a humility they got me, and I accept that. The ability to solve basically anything and beat face is handy. I am really on the fence though if he is better then running the classic Woodfall Primus. Are there any creatures we care about really beyond Mangara that the Rider could answer and Primus couldn't?

I suppose there are really crazy ones like a hand with "removal threat" show and tell, sneak attack vs a revoker on Sneak, but even then...

[mahelfri94]

JPA, would you mind doing a full sideboard guide based on Jared's list?

Or an updated list based on your current sb?

[rockout]

Ashen Rider. while not bounce, does answer basically all the opponents hate save humility. I have had decent success with the Rider as of late. If they have a humility they got me, and I accept that. The ability to solve basically anything and beat face is handy. I am really on the fence though if he is better then running the classic Woodfall Primus. Are there any creatures we care about really beyond Mangara that the Rider could answer and Primus couldn't?

I suppose there are really crazy ones like a hand with "removal threat" show and tell, sneak attack vs a revoker on Sneak, but even then...

Peacekeeper

The only one I can think of...

[JPA]

Peacekeeper

The only one I can think of...

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Griselbrand, Blazing Archon, and other creatures Reanimator might have. I would definitely play Ashen Rider over Woodfall Primus.

JPA, would you mind doing a full sideboard guide based on Jared's list?

Or an updated list based on your current sb?

I will make a new sideboard guide with my current list (very similar to Jared's) after the GPT on saturday.

[jimmythegreek]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.

[apple713]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.

It's fun if you're Johnny (think its johnny) player and a spike player because it's competitive but the way you win with the competitive deck is with big fat creatures so it's a lot of fun if that's your play style

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Johnny is combo, timmy is big critters and spike is competitive.

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[JPA]

Is this deck fun to play? I understand fun is kind of relative to the individual but I'm wondering if it's worth investing in. Goblins is my maindeck but I'm interested in picking up a combo deck with a lower learning curve. I appreciate any possible feedback and apologize for the obscure post.

If winning and not having to play 40-50 minutes each round are fun to you, then yes.
If complex combat math and multiple small decisions each turn that don't win you the game immediately are fun to you, then the deck is not fun.

[dorvaan]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

[apple713]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

I agree and wish that the other primers for the other decks would follow suit to make the legacy community better as a whole.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Not all decks in the format are as agreed upon as this archetype. I direct your attention to the DeathBlade thread...I understand that there are two different builds of Sneak and Show but both are largely agreed upon by their respective players.

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[apple713]

Not all decks in the format are as agreed upon as this archetype. I direct your attention to the DeathBlade thread...I understand that there are two different builds of Sneak and Show but both are largely agreed upon by their respective players.

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true but for the ones that are it would be nice to have a formal write up for them. It makes it much easier for new players to decide on a deck if they have something like that to reference.



On a separate note, has anyone tried gamble in the list?

[nodahero]

I have not tried Gamble however it seems like a worse version of intuition because you have no idea what card you will get to keep. In legacy, and honestly all formats, the more random the less valuable an ability is.

[apple713]

I have not tried Gamble however it seems like a worse version of intuition because you have no idea what card you will get to keep. In legacy, and honestly all formats, the more random the less valuable an ability is.

intuition cost too much. i figure gamble would set up a lot of t2 wins. I'll have to test it and get back to y'all. I understand more random is less valuable but if you look at it for consistency its not terrible because at the beginning of the game you'll have 6 cards in hand when you cast it. meaning if you have 1 piece already in your hand cast gamble, then 1/3rd of the time gamble will fail, but that means 2/3rds of the time it will succeed. increasing t2 potential seems good.

[JPA]

I created this account just to say thank you for this. As someone that is in the process of building Sneak and Show, this is the best primer I've ever seen. Hell, this might be one of the best primers I've ever seen for any deck. So, thanks!

Thanks! Very glad it's helpful for you.

intuition cost too much. i figure gamble would set up a lot of t2 wins. I'll have to test it and get back to y'all. I understand more random is less valuable but if you look at it for consistency its not terrible because at the beginning of the game you'll have 6 cards in hand when you cast it. meaning if you have 1 piece already in your hand cast gamble, then 1/3rd of the time gamble will fail, but that means 2/3rds of the time it will succeed. increasing t2 potential seems good.

Gamble is a very bad card, it can completely destroy your game plan by hitting a land or any other crucial piece. Unlike the Mono-R-version, we have access to all the awesome blue cantrips and therefore no reason at all to play a horrible card like that.

Gamble doesn't increase T2-potential, it would just make you lose a lot more games. Play 12 cantrips if you want to increase the chance of going off early.