[Deck] Sneak and Show

[Ellomdian]

I think Gitaxian Probe shines best against matchups where Show & Tell is sometimes a liability...

This is a bit of an understatement, but I feel like it is a good summary why I love Probes in this deck. Knowing that you have a few turns to assemble a more resilient combo is worth just as much as finding out that the coast is clear right now. While you might not be able to eke out extra value on a Therapy, having complete information about a given turn is invaluable.If you are encountering situations where you wish the Probe was something else, odds are you could (and should) have cycled the Probe already.

[Koby]

Hence my boarding plan against them:

-3 Gitaxian Probe
-2 Force of Will
-2 Dig Through Time

+3 Pyroclasm
+2 Defense Grid
+2 Echoing Truth

I think that in this case, boarding in Echoing Truth is the over-boarding. I would also keep the Forces in, as countering an early Delver is a good way to buy a ton of time. DTT is rubbish for this matchup tho, so that's an easy board out.

[JPA]

I think that in this case, boarding in Echoing Truth is the over-boarding. I would also keep the Forces in, as countering an early Delver is a good way to buy a ton of time. DTT is rubbish for this matchup tho, so that's an easy board out.

Echoing Truth can also buy a ton of time as well as getting rid of random permanent hate like Needle (which I encountered online a lot).

I don't feel 4 FoWs are necessary when we have Defense Grid post-board. 3 Pyroclasm are enough to get rid of Delvers, no need to FoW them.

[Unassigned]

Echoing Truth can also buy a ton of time as well as getting rid of random permanent hate like Needle (which I encountered online a lot).

I don't feel 4 FoWs are necessary when we have Defense Grid post-board. 3 Pyroclasm are enough to get rid of Delvers, no need to FoW them.

Truth is definitely the right call in the Delver matchup. But as for Defense Grid, I really just prefer Boseiju in that slot, especially since Defense Grid has no effect on Counterbalance.

JPA - Thoughts on Fallout?

[JPA]

Truth is definitely the right call in the Delver matchup. But as for Defense Grid, I really just prefer Boseiju in that slot, especially since Defense Grid has no effect on Counterbalance.

JPA - Thoughts on Fallout?

I just prefer Defense Grid in a Tempo-heavy metagame. Boseiju is obviously awesome against Miracles and in the mirror, where Defense Grid is useless.

@Fallout: I don't really like it. Boseiju+Pyroclasm does the same job against UR Delver and Pyroclasm's upside ( less) outweighs the instant-speed and uncounterability of Fallout in my opinion.

It's awesome against Merfolk, though - a super annoying matchup!

[Unassigned]

@Fallout: I don't really like it. Boseiju+Pyroclasm does the same job against UR Delver and Pyroclasm's upside ( less) outweighs the instant-speed and uncounterability of Fallout in my opinion.

With the booming popularity of Delver, I'm not sure that I want to rely on a 2 card combo that still doesn't do 2 damage to my opponent (still 2 to me due to Boseiju) and no longer instant speed to wipe a board. I'm still in the very early stages of testing this, and with work, Halloween and my anniversary with my wife coming up on Sunday, I haven't had time to test this much at all since the initial night. I think I'll run it during my local Tuesday night Legacy and go from there.

[MGB]

Ruh Roh!

[MaximumC]

Ruh Roh!

That horrible noise you hear from the next room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players cackling manically.

[Koby]

That horrible noise you hear from the next room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players cackling manically.

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

I'm mistaken. It might still be bad for Sneak & Show. They can Vial in Containment Priest, even though it stops future Vial cheats.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The sudden silence you hear from the other room is the sound of all the Death & Taxes players realizing yet again that they still don't play blue.

[wonderPreaux]

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

The fact they need to cast this (with mana) is a point against it from the D&T perspective. That means it can be countered.

I'm mistaken. It might still be bad for Sneak & Show. They can Vial in Containment Priest, even though it stops future Vial cheats.

Are you sure? Doesn't the fact that it's a static effect mean that it exiles itself upon entering the battlefield?

they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

Yeah, but most lists afaik only run a singleton Cavern. In a list with no draw whatsoever, that sounds like an out, not a strategy.

-ABC

[d0nkey]

they can cavern it, human is a good tribe for them, they even get thalia, right?

It doesn't counter it, it just RFG's it instead.

[i_b_TRUE]

This card should only show up in DnT. Plus we have Pyroclasm for it already for that matchup for EOT Echoing Truth... we shouldnt be to worried.

[Koby]

Are you sure? Doesn't the fact that it's a static effect mean that it exiles itself upon entering the battlefield?

Yes, check out Comp Rules 614.12:

614.12. Some replacement effects modify how a permanent enters the battlefield. (See rules 614.1c-d.) Such effects may come from the permanent itself if they affect only that permanent (as opposed to a general subset of permanents that includes it). They may also come from other sources. To determine which replacement effects apply and how they apply, check the characteristics of the permanent as it would exist on the battlefield, taking into account replacement effects that have already modified how it enters the battlefield (see rule 616.1), continuous effects generated by the resolution of spells or abilities that changed the permanent's characteristics on the stack (see rule 400.7a), and continuous effects from the permanent's own static abilities, but ignoring continuous effects from any other source that would affect it.

Example: Voice of All says "As Voice of All enters the battlefield, choose a color" and "Voice of All has protection from the chosen color." An effect creates a token that's a copy of Voice of All. As that token is put onto the battlefield, its controller chooses a color for it.
Example: Yixlid Jailer says "Cards in graveyards lose all abilities." Scarwood Treefolk says "Scarwood Treefolk enters the battlefield tapped." A Scarwood Treefolk that's put onto the battlefield from a graveyard enters the battlefield tapped.
Example: Orb of Dreams is an artifact that says "Permanents enter the battlefield tapped." It won't affect itself, so Orb of Dreams enters the battlefield untapped.

614.12a. If a replacement effect that modifies how a permanent enters the battlefield requires a choice, that choice is made before the permanent enters the battlefield.

[Brentane]

I was really into getting this deck, but now I am scared of Containment Priest. It's just so good for D&T. Want to kill the Elves matchup? CP. Want to kill Reanimator? CP. Want to kill Sneak & Show? CP.

[i_b_TRUE]

This could be depressing if this card destorys 3 decks... but for Sneak and Show we do have SnT and Pyroclasm out of the board. So I think we should be fine. Reanimator and Elves have an issue.

[Unassigned]

Ruh Roh!

One more reason why I'm liking the instant speed of Volcanic Fallout more and more over Pyroclasm.

[Polishguy00]

I was playing around with some weirder lists this weekend in mtgo dailies:

Tried playing 2 Cruises and 2 Digs instead of Spell Pierce with some success. I just wanted to try to find something that continues to be good on it's own later in a game. Still, it not much to go on as I had a few bad keeps and an epic punt from being a bit rusty in Legacy since the scene recently died at my LGS. There seems to be a tiny advantage where I have to sac or discard Emrakul after I have already delved--get rid of the lands, etc. Plus, DTT and the Cruises also ate up counters to open the doors a couple times.

I'm still playing 2 Fire/Ice instead of two Jace. One main deck TTB for 9th enabler is the other one.

On that white card, I was mad at first, but it really is just another bad card in a bad match-up. Not sure if it is any worse than Clique taking an enabler.

Just working on tweaking the SB for Jersey; my first Legacy GP. I am down to

1) Deciding on trying 2 Daze main like the two recent top 20 finishes at SCG Opens did. Fire/Ice would probably be what I take out.
2) Switching out 2 Swan Songs for Defense Grids on SB

Anyone else try anything above recently?

[JPA]

Switching out 2 Swan Songs for Defense Grids on SB

I wouldn't replace one with the other, since they are boarded in completely different matchups (Song against Combo/Miracles, Defense Grid against Tempo).