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Thread: [Deck] Sneak and Show

  1. #381
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Funk View Post
    I think everyone is missing a really important aspect of Dig Through time: That it gets two cards instead of one. Being able to pick up a combo piece AND a piece of protection off of the same card is incredible. Worst comes to worst you at least pick up some more cantrips and filter away some unneeded lands or spells.
    This.

    Also: SNT ain't no all-in Combo.dec such as Belcher. VS Control.decs being able to reinforce efficiently is vital.
    Last edited by klaus; 10-01-2014 at 04:50 PM.

  2. #382

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by JPA View Post
    Congrats on your result, Jeremy! Miracles is a close matchup and if neither player gets the nut-draw it gets even closer and grindier.

    I will definitely test Dig through Time, because I find it hard to evaluate its power without actually playing it.

    Gus Schade made Top 8 of SCG Indy with a new take on the list: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=73450

    I messaged him on Facebook and am curious to hear his thought process behind the list and how it performed.
    I've actually been waiting to talk to him as well. I was planning on playing Miracles in Columbus and GPNJ, but if the Dig's impress me enough in testing, I might stick to my Legacy roots. I also noticed his list included the two main deck Blood Moon's, a Misdirection and cut the Ponder count to two. Can't argue with the results, and I'm sure the Blood Moon G1 caught a lot of people off guard.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmythegreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    --Complaining about combo decks, cheap threats, and less player interaction--
    Welcome to legacy bra.

  3. #383

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassigned View Post
    I've actually been waiting to talk to him as well. I was planning on playing Miracles in Columbus and GPNJ, but if the Dig's impress me enough in testing, I might stick to my Legacy roots. I also noticed his list included the two main deck Blood Moon's, a Misdirection and cut the Ponder count to two. Can't argue with the results, and I'm sure the Blood Moon G1 caught a lot of people off guard.
    Seems like cutting the Ponders is not right. Anyways, last night I took this deck to locals for the first time in a few months so I could test out DTT. I wanted to see how good the card was and started with 4 copies. I went 3-1 losing to BUG Delver and beating Elves, a rogue deck, and High Tide (though I should chalk HT up to a loss because he fizzled after casting 4 Time Spirals, which... doesn't seem likely). Here are some observations:

    1. Confirmed: This card is very powerful in this deck. As everyone has theorized, finding the extra combo piece/FOW/whatever was awesome.
    2. The card can whiff. Of the 5 or so times I cast it last night I did not find what I wanted twice. However, one time I got a cantrip instead. The other time I had to take a land (top 7 cards only had cantrips, land, and a Lotus Petal).
    3. I found myself pitching the card to FOW a lot more than I wanted. What that means is that DTT did not come online fast enough. This makes sense if you think about it. Unlike DelverCruise decks, we don't have "other spells" like Bolt or Plow or creatures to fuel DTT. We really only have cantrips and fetches, and I found that it wasn't enough to power the card when I wanted to cast it (t3 or t4). What this means is that the 4th copy is probably unnecessary. The deck has a weird tension with DTT. I tried out 4 copies yesterday because I thought that I always wanted to see a DTT immediately after I cast my first SNT/Sneak Attack. If my SNT doesn't get countered, my fatty will win the game. If my SNT does get countered, then I have DTT to reboot and go for round 2. However, it's awkward because the deck can't sustain 4 DTT. This leads to the next point...
    4. In all honesty, this card did not solve what I find to be the biggest issue with SNT - the deck can cave in on itself at times. It's a bit slow, really only against Delver decks where you have to dance around Daze and Pierce. It's the first few turns after you lose the first counter war that the deck is super vulnerable. The idea is that DTT should show up immediately then to sort of bring you back. Like I mentioned earlier, DTT is usually NOT live //for 2 mana// at this point, which is really what we need it to be. And, because it is difficult to cast in these critical few turns, it is less powerful than I initially imagined.
    5. Still, that being said, see point #1. For example, DTT won me a game that would have otherwise been unwinnable in that it got me an extra Petal to combo off a turn earlier.
    6. I took the standard Jace list and made the following changes:

    -2 Jace, -2 Spell Pierce (2 total), -1 Land (18, cut an Ancient Tomb)
    +4 DTT, +1 Gitaxian Probe (4 total)

    This by no means feels correct, but I wanted to test out the 4th DTT and see whether or not SNT could actually play 4 (in the same way that the new UR Delver played 4). Moving forward I would probably test this deck again with 3 DTT, but I think other things would have to change as well. It may just be the case that Sneak and Show is not the optimal SNT deck for DTT. I also want to try this card in an Omnitell similar to Logan Mize's list, since having a naked Omniscience in play makes this card a lot easier to cast. Also the extra 4 cantrips help fuel DTT as well.

  4. #384
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Gus told me DTT performed nicely; helping to recover from Counterwars, finding two pieces at once (combo piece + combo piece, combo piece + protection) and even on the bad digs finding more cantrips or something like Brainstorm+fetch.

    He also said maindeck Blood Moon was supposed to punish the greedy three/four-color manabases of decks like Team America, RUG and Deathblade and performed ok; it's obviously an easy side-out against most other decks.

    He boarded the third DTT in against Miracles and thinks he probably should have boarded the 2 maindeck copies out against faster decks like Elves.

    Gus beat RW Painter, 2 Miracles, Elves, 2 Deathblades and Lands in the Swiss, losing only to RUG Delver and then against Elves in the Top 8.

  5. #385

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    First of all, excuse my bad english.

    I tested yesterday two copies of DTT in a small local tournament. I went 4-0 and I only played the spell once and saw it twice (the time I did not play it I had already a sneak in play and I was in BIG DUDES mode, so no need for it...). I sided it out in two games (goblins and burn; the same way I would have done with JTMS).

    The time I cast it was fantastic and performed as good as expected. It was during the last match of the last round against food chain. A very typical situation for us, he is playing draw and go with a full hand and a guy in play hitting and I am stuck with some counters, the fatties but no way to play them. I drew it and played EOT (paying four, as we havent had any counter-fights and my graveyard was only two cantrips and two lands). He let it resolve (another HUGE benefit, because people will doubt if the have to go for it. And sometimes they will make the wrong choice). In my seven i see Sneak and TTB (even better than drawing protection and something Intuition cant do) and throw away some fatties and lands. Next EOT I go for it and fight a little just to untap and Sneak insanity for the win.

    I didnt have the chance to try it in the other scenario I am willing to do: after a lost counterfight. Now I will have no troubles going for it more agressively and spending my counters if, at the end of the day, I have a DTT to refill with his hand exhausted.

    If delvers decks go, as it looks, into delve mode, sneak will have easier first turns combos. And they are one of our worst matchups.

    For now, DTT seems like a house to me. I replaced two JaceMS in the main and I think Ill be like this for a time. I usually side out gitaxian probes a lot, but now they make perfect food for DTTs...

    Next week I will test de TC in Patriot.

  6. #386

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Iam playing the following version:

    creatures:
    4 emrakul
    4 griselbrand
    2 progenitus

    Spells:
    4 fow
    4 daze
    2 spell pierce
    4 brainstorm
    2 ponder
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 show and tell
    4 sneak attack
    4 lotus petal

    lands:
    4-Scalding Tarn
    4- ancient Tomb
    2- island
    2-volcanic island
    2- city of Traitors
    1- moutain
    2- misty Rainforest
    1- arid mesa

    sideboard
    1 Progenitus
    2 Faerie Macabre
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Through the Breach
    3 Pyroclasm
    3 Vendilion Clique
    2 Echoing Truth

    I love Tampo in this deck ! I normally play tomb/traitor for 2 and use tampo to see top 3 cards, for a fast combo !
    Any suggestions or critics ? thx !!

  7. #387
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    So yesterday I played in a lolocal tourney with the deck. Haven't played this deck in awhile due to the fact I have had mixed results with it in the past due to the fact that even with all the cantrips you would brick too much for my liking. I decided to give it a try last night and see if dig through time had fixed this and I wasn't disappointed. This card is amazing. One of the weird things though is I was short 1 emrakul for my list but after playing the deck I wonder if I don't just want 2 and more cantrips or proactive spells like lightning bolt or fire/ice. Maybe I'm wrong but with dig it was very easy to set up your hand with the combo and some protection. What do you guys think?

  8. #388

    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by e_hawk77 View Post
    So yesterday I played in a lolocal tourney with the deck. Haven't played this deck in awhile due to the fact I have had mixed results with it in the past due to the fact that even with all the cantrips you would brick too much for my liking. I decided to give it a try last night and see if dig through time had fixed this and I wasn't disappointed. This card is amazing. One of the weird things though is I was short 1 emrakul for my list but after playing the deck I wonder if I don't just want 2 and more cantrips or proactive spells like lightning bolt or fire/ice. Maybe I'm wrong but with dig it was very easy to set up your hand with the combo and some protection. What do you guys think?
    It worked for Gus Schade. He's still on his same 75. We're going to a GPNJ Trial at a local store this Sunday, so I'll keep you guys posted with how we both perform. I'm still torn between what I'll be playing at the moment. It's a toss up between Miracles or Sneak & Show.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmythegreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombie View Post
    --Complaining about combo decks, cheap threats, and less player interaction--
    Welcome to legacy bra.

  9. #389
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Won the monthly Legacy tournament in Hannover (Germany) today. 60 players, 6 rounds, no Top 8.

    I don't feel like writing a too detailed report, so here are some short notes:

    Rd. 1 Miracles 2-0: My turn 3 Probe shows me a lot of clunky Miracle spells in his hand in game 1 and Show and Tell Emrakul gets there.

    Game 2 he surprises me with 2 Meddling Mages. Luckily, I still have Through the Breach and manage to block one of the Mages with Griselbrand, drawing 7 after the block which ultimately win me the game.

    Rd. 2 BUG Delver 2-0: Game 1 I probe him after cantripping for the first 2 turns, while he played a Deathrite Shaman and a Brainstorm + Hymn on turn 2 (Hymn hit irrelevant pieces, since my hand was really redundant), Gitaxian Probe shows me only creatures and Emmy gets it done.

    I misdirect a turn 2 Hymn in game 2, hitting his only real clock (Tarmogoyf) and a land. I keep on durdling around with cantrips until I go Blood Moon (resolves, he has 1 DRS) into Show and Tell (gets FoWed) into Sneak Attack, resolves. The End

    Rd. 3 MUD 2-1: Really close games. He started with turn 1 Chalice on 1 in all three games, if I remember correctly.

    Game 1 I kill him with Sneak Attack on turn 3 after countering some spell in the first turns, don't remember.

    Game 2 I have turn 2 Show and Tell with Lotus Petal still open and Sneak Attack + Griselbrand in hand. Since he already had a Metalworker out there I thought I would rather try and kill him on the same turn, thus deciding to put Sneak Attack into play, facing a Wurmcoil Engine from his side. Naturally, Griselbrand fails to find Emrakul in the next 14 cards and a Phyrexian Revoker coming out of Cavern of Souls seals the deal on turn 3.

    Game 3 I keep a mana-light hand with 2 Force of Wills and Through the Breach. He keeps my mana in check with double Wasteland, and after countering his Lodestone Golems we both find ourselves in topdeck mode. He starts beating down with Revoker + Metalworker, but doesn't find a Wurmcoil Engine or another big creature to race my Show and Tell - Emrakul.

    Rd. 4 Reanimator 2-1:

    Game 1 I put him on BUG Delver / ANT after turn 1 U-Sea Ponder. His eot2 Entomb into Iona shows me that he knows what I am playing and tells me that he has a Griselbrand in hand in case I go for Show and Tell. Luckily for me, the rest of his hand is counters and he doesn't find a Reanimation spell before I punch a Sneak Attack through. Dig Through Time helped with that, didn't expect the game to go that long in this matchup.

    Game 2 he has protected turn 2 Griselbrand and I drown in mana-sources after whiffing on two Ponders.

    Game 3 I keep a FoW-protected Grafdigger's Cage hand which gets there eventually, because he didn't find a green source for Abrupt Decay in time.

    Rd. 5 Deathblade 2-0: In game 1 he simply has no way to interact with me. Game 2 he Spell Pierces and Flusterstorms my Show and Tell and dies to Sneak Attack on the turn after. Rather fast, uneventful games, but a very pleasant and friendly opponent nonetheless.

    Rd. 6 Sneak & Show 4-0 (1-1-1): My buddy Tobi and I were the only ones at 5-0 so we decided to draw and play it out to decide who gets to take the prize for 1st. In game 1 I managed to recover from a turn 3 sneaky annihilation while he failed to draw another creature or a cantrip for several turns; was pretty funny. Even though he boarded 9 cards, while I boarded 4, his draws didn't seem to be capable of beating mine. I think he might have overboarded a little bit.

    I played those in the flex-slots: 3 Spell Pierce, 1 Misdirection, 2 Dig Through Time, 3 Gitaxian Probe. The rest is the stock list.

    and this sideboard:

    2 Defense Grid
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Through the Breach
    3 Pyroclasm
    2 Swan Song
    2 Echoing Truth

    This is the list I found to be the best balanced after testing in multiple Dailies on MTGO. UR Delver can be an annoying matchup and 2 Defense Grid + 3 Pyroclasm (the 2 Echoing Truth come in, too) are usually enough to beat their tax-counters + fast clock. I am not 100 % set on Dig Through Time yet. It was extremely powerful in the late-game, but often too slow and got Brainstormed away / pitched into FoW.

  10. #390
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    Re: [DTB] Sneak and Show

    Hi, it's been a while since I posted on the Source. As I've been reading this thread to get some ideas for the tournament, seems fair to contribute now that I got to play the deck.
    Just came house after a Top8 in the LCL October (63 men, year's lowest ) and this is the list I played:


    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Griselbrand
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Dig Through Time
    2 Blood Moon
    4 Force of Will
    3 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Ponder
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Sneak Attack
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Island
    1 Mountain
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Volcanic Island

    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Pyroblast
    3 Pyroclasm
    2 Swan Song
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Through the Breach


    IMO, Dig Through Time is here to stay. When resolved the card was excellent at finding either protection, business and even red producers to Sneak Attack Activations when I was lacking Volcanic Islands/Petals. As Gus Schade, I decided to play a pair of copies of Blood Moon as additional bombs vs popular decks here as Canadian, BUG and Jund. Never had the chance to drop it T1 and because of my pairings wasn't needed at all, so it went to my SB a lot. The rest ain't nothing new, I like the Probes to see if the coast is clear and Pyroclasm off the side is the hell of a card nowadays with UR everywhere.

    Rounds and memories of the games:
    R1. Jund (2-0). Luckily, G1 he went the creature route and Deathrite Shaman and Dark Confidant can't compete vs Griselbrand at all. Had to fow a Liliana of the Veil and took the game short after. G2 He mulled to 6. In T2 he tapped for Duress, I brainstormed to hide the Blood Moon and tapped out for a Shaman which I forced, I drop the Moon and it was pretty much game although we played a long one because I wanted a Sneak/Through the Break kill as I sided out Probes and never had information of his hand.

    R2. UR Cruise (2-1). G1 I had a ridiculous hand of Tomb, Petal, Petal, S&T, Emrakul, Fow and blue card. He Probed T2 and tapped out for a Swiftspear with 4 cards in hand. I went for it and he scooped. I actually was fearing a mirror match but that wasn't the case, if he hadn't played the creature, I wouldn't have gone for it. G2 I mulled to 6 and he needed TRIPLE Force to prevent me going off. A Swiftspear out of Pyroclasm's range and a Ponder+Bolt ended it. G3 I won it with Griselbrand + Emrakul through Sneak Attack.

    R3. Reanimator (2-0). G1 I Pierced two Entombs and he only was able to drop an Elesh Norn on the yard. At some point I resolve S&T, he drops Griselbrand, I drop Sneak Attack into Emrakul to prevent him drawing. I had 2 Griselbrand for the next turn and he scoops with his board clear. G2 he mulled to 5 and I won it with Through the Breach into Griselbrand into more stuff. He never played a discard spell which would have made things more difficult.

    R4. Omniscience w Enter the Infinite (2-1). After a really long G1 with both of us too afraid to S&T, he ended up winning it by HARDCASTING Omniscience, I saw Blood Moon in my hand a realized what a moron I was. I had fowed previously a S&T from Intuition so he wasn't finding the last copy and his list didn't play Dream Halls. Oh well. G2 he drew toons of cards with Brainstorms, Ponders, Preordains, Treasure Cruises and Dig Through Times, this man had all of them. I won the counterwar when he went off thanks to Pyroblast, Fow and Swan Song. When I was at 5 from Bird hits, I drew a Sneak Attack won with Emrakul. I won G3 in turn 5 when after a Brainstorm I saw the necessary red source to activate a resolved Sneak Attack through Lotus Petal.

    R5. BUG (ID)
    R6. Miracles (ID).

    Top8 (Merfolks). He played a list without Dazes and Wastelands and I managed to lose G1. He starded with Vial and Chalice of the Void at 0 which turned to be key as I had Island, Fetch and Petal as producers. He Fowed a S&T and applied the pressure that Merfolk usually do. Starting my turn with lethal on the table my lands were Island, Island, Volcanic, City of Traitors, in hand Sneak Attack and Emrakul vs his 6 permanents. I proceed to draw... Lotus petal. Scoop. G2 I kept a land with producers, Sneak Attack and Defense Grid, which resolved T2 off Ancient Tomb. After a Brainstorm and both Probes failed to draw a creature and lost to his double Lord + Mutavault.

    Overall the deck felt really consistent and just had to mulligan only thrice through the tournament.

  11. #391

    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    I'm really surprised we're not seeing Sneak and Show getting better finishes right now with all the Elves decks running around. What do you guys suppose accounts for the lack of showings?

  12. #392
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Funk View Post
    I'm really surprised we're not seeing Sneak and Show getting better finishes right now with all the Elves decks running around. What do you guys suppose accounts for the lack of showings?
    It is just very underplayed. New Legacy players can't afford the cards and most long-time Legacy players think they have a better chance to win if they play something that allows them to utilize their format-knowledge better. Sneak & Show has a lot of raw power, and even if you make mistakes (by using your cantrips inefficiently for example) you can still get a lot of free wins. Other decks reward you more for good technical play, even though they are less "powerful".

    It is also a matter of location. There are very few dedicated Sneak and Show players on the East Coast, where most SCG Opens take place. Midwestern Opens usually have more Sneak&Shows in the Top 8/16, because they have very proficient S&S-pilots like Dylan Jones, Adam Jansen, Chris Bergeson, Adam Fronsee, Gus Schade, Jason Jaco and all the others I'm forgetting right now.

  13. #393

    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    How do you guys cantrip efficiently?
    If you open a hand with a BS, Ponder and SP do you play a cantrip or hold for a turn?

  14. #394
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by dave8 View Post
    How do you guys cantrip efficiently?
    If you open a hand with a BS, Ponder and SP do you play a cantrip or hold for a turn?
    Depends a lot. If you're playing against black decks, the better play is to play land -> go, so that you can Spell Pierce his discard spell or Brainstorm in response to protect your cards. If he goes for other plays, you can Brainstorm EOT. If you don't have fetchlands in your hand, you should also start with BS then follow with Ponder, to shuffle if necessary.

    @thread

    My latest list, after seeing a lot of posts here (and some testing, of course):

    Lands [19]
    4 Scalding Tarn
    3 Misty Rainforest
    3 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Island
    1 Mountain

    Creatures [8]
    4 Griselbrand
    4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    Spells [33]
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Show and Tell
    4 Sneak Attack
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Intuition
    1 Misdirection

    Sideboard [15]
    3 Pyroclasm
    3 Through the Breach
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Shattering Spree
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Ashen Rider

    I've tested Dig Through Time, and found it pretty bad. I know it has a lot of reach and draw power, but I've come to some awkward situations:

    1) Sometimes you don't get 6 cards into your graveyard fast enough.
    2) Once you've attack with Emrakul with Sneak Attack (and your opponent hasn't scooped, or have Stifled your annihilator trigger), Emrakul will shuffle your graveyard, and DTT will be uncastable.
    3) Once I've have enough cards to cast DTT, I already cantripped to my combo (or permission to push the combo through).

    All in all, it was being just Force of Will fodder, and the few times I was actually able to cast it, only once or twice it was good. That being said, I think I'll go with Intuition, as a safe slot, since it pretty much fits the same role as DTT (and nobody's playing Surgical Extraction).

    Have you guys experienced something similar?
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
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  16. #396
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
    Question 1: Chas Hinkle played two moon in main and had a good finish in GP Wangshington.

    here is the list: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=12214&iddeck=89529

    Actually I don't think it's a good idea now to play moon in main with a lot miracle, elves or UR delver in current meta...needle is better imo against DnT.

    Question 2 : I have not tested Dig my self, but I assume it is good against discard and control, but seems too slow against any deck with a fast clock. You can cast intuition on turn two, but can rarely cast dig on turn two. And dig anyway requires UU, which may be a problem too.
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  17. #397
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
    1) It didn't. Gus Schade played it at SCGIndy, because he expected a lot of 3c/4c Tempo decks and Deathblade. I wouldn't play them (main deck) at the moment, we don't want any dead cards in race-matchups like UR Delver and Elves.

    2) You usually cast Intuition the turn before you go off, DTT is much slower but great at recovering after a lost counter-war. I am still testing with DTT, but Intuition has been passing tests for 4 years - it's always a safe choice as a 1/2-of.

    Edit @Koby or any Mod/Admin: Could you please remove the "l" in the thread title ("[Deckl]")?

  18. #398
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
    #1
    Blood Moon is great against Tempo decks, and being BUG Delver one of our worst matchups (probably after DnT), I think it's fine to put 2 Moons maindeck. Everyone knows it's pretty much GG when you can resolve it. They're a must counter against lots of decks, and even against decks it's not great, hating on Karakas or Gaea's Cradle can buy you a turn or two. Also, don't forget that Elves lists now run plenty of fetchlands to support DRS.

    It also makes sideboarding easy against decks that tend to play basics.

    All in all, it's probably the same reason why UR Delver and Miracles are playing 1-of Pyroblast maindeck. It's great against some matchups, worthless against others. Doesn't take a whole lot of space, and as a 2-of you're unlikely to draw both.

    #2
    I'd probably go for Intuition. Easier casting, finds everything you need, nobody's playing Surgical Extraction. DTT requires a setup, and it's only truly great against discard decks in a long run (you can Spell Pierce and Brainstorm hide in the early turns). I'd probably only want DTT against Jund or Pox, to be fair.
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  19. #399

    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?

    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
    Here's my take on both of these...

    Gus ran this in a pretty wide open metagame and got rewarded. While you'd think that it would be a less-than-powerful card in many cases, it's actually a backbreaker against many decks in the early turns. Consider how Miracles does have basics, but also runs anywhere between 8-10 fetchlands, 3-4 duals, plus 1-2 Karakas and possibly Mystic Gate. If they expect it, they can easily play around it, but they will not in the first game and Gus actually stole two game 1's because of exactly that line of play. It's a very personal choice due to the evolving metagame. I'm running the pair in the main now and I've only found it useless a three times, two being against UR Delver and the other against an Omni opponent when we got into the late game. The card steals games all by itself, but decide for yourself if the risk of a dead card is worth it. We are seeing a heavy Elves, UR, Miracles and BUG metagame. Blood Moon being insane against one, slightly less than moderate against two, and pretty abysmal against the other.

    As for Dig vs Intuition, I've changed my initial tune on this card. Originally, I was against it, but it definitely does have it's place. It helps greatly in the Miracles matchup, but doesn't shine as much in the aggro matchups. I feel like it's fine in a more combo/control-oriented field, but I would run Intuition in a heavy aggro field. Personally, I feel like the best shell for Dig is in High Tide and Omni-Show. Both run 12 1cc cantrips, a plethora of fetchlands, and fuel their yard extremely fast while sculpting their hands with combo pieces.
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    Welcome to legacy bra.

  20. #400
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    Re: [Deckl] Sneak and Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Koby View Post
    Question #1) When did Blood Moon maindeck become state of the art? What does it achieve in the maindeck that isn't handled by the Sideboard? Against Karakas (D&T, et al) why not rely on Pithing Needle instead?
    Question #2) In comparison of Intuition vs DTT, which has been tested better? If you only have two slots available, which is preferred?

    Thanks.
    I've found Intuition to be the better card in most instances. It allows for better sideboards, more consistent early combo turns and doesn't rely on the graveyard whatsoever.

    Testing DTT has proven that it's a powerful card worthy of inclusion, but not likely as more than a 1 or 2 of. Initially, I wanted to run 3 DTT with a single Intuition because it opens the (slow) line of Intuition for 3 DTT while putting 3 cards in the yard to fuel it. The result was that I drew these early DTT and wished they were Intuitions. Despite casting a handful of turn 2 DTT, I rarely found it to be more powerful than Intuition.

    I'll continue testing throughout the week but I'm likely going to be on either 2 Intuition + 2 DTT or 3 Intuition + 1 DTT for Eternal Weekend. I think it's a fantastic card for longer games and gives you an out to scenarios where you've been out-attrition-ed (active Lilly post failed combo, for example) while also allowing you to more easily overpower the blue decks. Ultimately, I value speed and consistency above easier recovery and extra padding which is what I believe DTT offers this deck.

    On an unrelated note, I'm psyched to be back on my favorite legacy deck of all time after scrubbing out with UR delver at Worcester in my first event since returning home.

    Keep making monsters, boys.

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