Jund Depths

[Claymore]

Smallpox is looking real good right now.

[hovercraft]

Interesting list! You can still Chasm lock with Life from the Loam without Zuran Orb. You just dont pay upkeep costs, and get it back with Loam (dredging Loam if you don't have it in hand).

I have been on BG Depths with Mox, Wish and Chalice for awhile but I finally got Groves recently and have been wondering how to incorporate them into the deck, for a more controlling version. I'll have to brew up a list and start some testing. I think I would go more towards the Smallpox/Liliana direction you mentioned with extra Urbog. I am still missing Bridges, Tabernacle and Crucible.

Do you really need 7 Sol lands and 4 Mox?

[Emrakul503]

Does anyone have a post Top ban version of this list they are working on? I have R/G Combo lands, but like the idea of playing Smallpox in it somehow.

[CptHaddock]

Does anyone have a post Top ban version of this list they are working on? I have R/G Combo lands, but like the idea of playing Smallpox in it somehow.

I have a feeling that Ken's version of the deck is still pretty good. Just from generally playing 2 of your worst matchups are "solved" miracles is gone and d&t is in a weird state. The combo matchups are pretty hit or miss.

I would approach this more as a pox deck than a lands deck but that is just 1 man's opinion.

[CptHaddock]

Looks like K Haas has done it again.

[Manroe]

Looks like K Haas has done it again.

I was wrapped up in my match and thought I was sitting next to him, how funny!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[CptHaddock]

I was wrapped up in my match and thought I was sitting next to him, how funny!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

Sick, he did say that D&T and Miracles were the deck's worst matchups. With Miracles gone and D&T kind of sketch now it seems pretty good positioned but then again he's the only one who has actually shown some success with it. Where you also on a variant of this deck?

[Manroe]

Sick, he did say that D&T and Miracles were the deck's worst matchups. With Miracles gone and D&T kind of sketch now it seems pretty good positioned but then again he's the only one who has actually shown some success with it. Where you also on a variant of this deck?

No, I tried my hand at storm and promptly scrubbed. I really would love to work back towards this though.

[juzamjimjams]

Is Sylvan library not just, totally better in this deck? Seems like draw power is what you want to supplement all the tutoring, plus extra dredges isn't something that Mirri's Guile offers.

[Claymore]

Mirri's Guile comes down turn 1 and helps set up a Smallpox turn 2, and lets you check out the top 3 to see if you want to dredge or not. In my experience this isn't a super heavy dredging deck since you have Entombs, Decays, Liliana, and Smallpox plays, plus the sideboard...although it does have 4 Entombs and 4 Loams, so maybe his play style has shifted.

[juzamjimjams]

Heavy dredging or not, sylvan library allows you to dredge where you would want to in the later stages of the game, IE when you start wanting to recur wastelands/your opponent has disrupted your depths combo somehow/you need to rebuild after multiple smallpoxes, all the while allowing you to continue to dig through your deck for more action/set up your next dredge or draw.

Being able to play guile t1 without a diamond, and wanting to set up your smallpoxes early is certainly a valid point however, so thank you for your insight. This list does look like it wants to grind a little more with mazes, nether spirit, and raven's crime though, so it's definitely worth consideration.

[Claymore]

Went 1-2 with the list last night, losing 1-2 to each DnT and SnT, then beating Elves 2-1.

Used mostly Haas's recent deck, except 2x Mirri, 1x Sylvan (only had 2 Guiles), Karakas main over Bojuka, and then my own sideboard. The sideboard I used probably wasn't the best.

I did like Mirri's Guile overall, being able to have it as a 1 drop or saving poor hands turn 1 was nice. Sylvan may be better overall for being able to draw actual cards later, but it seemed very critical to be able to drop interaction turn 2. Turn 1 Entomb or Guile, turn 2 business spells.

Kolaghan's Command (has been good in the past)
3 Thoughtseize
Ray Revelation
Krosan Grip
Bojuka Bog
Toxic Deluge
Massacre
Worm Harvest (not used but should've brought in)
Crucible of Worlds (not used)
Vengeful Pharaoh (neat concept, but never felt appropriate)
Molten Vortex (great)
2 Surgical Extraction


DnT I was able to win fairly quickly after some initial Smallpox disruption off of Tabernacle and Mazes, and being able to entomb Riftstone Portal to make a faster Lage. Game 2 was grindy until 2 Prelates hit the board (2 & 3) and I made the misplay of dredging over Molten Vortex instead of waiting to draw more lands (my Loams were stopped). I think I also needed to hold Massacre for longer than just getting a Mom and SFM. I was able to partially stabilize, but then my Depths got extracted and then I was eventually overrun. Game 3 I had to take a shitty hand and got prisoned out via several ports and Thalia.

-Moxes, Lilianas
+Kolaghans Command, Krosan Grip, Ray Revelation, Deluge, Massacre, Vengeful Pharoah

SnT I used the first few turns to Entomb a Raven's Crime and shred his hand, although I got very lucky by having Karakas in hand for turn 2 Show into Emrakul. Game 2 I made some misplays (not being hyper aggressive and crop-Wasteland his top decked dual, keeping up my Karakas and Maze in defense for too long). I did get to entomb a Ray Revelation to kill Blood Moon, but lost to sneak attach annihilator. Game 3 I again played too passively and had to maze my Lage away from Griselbrands that were snuck in to block him. Had a situation of opponent able to sneak attack a few times and played too cautious of wanting to keep up both Maze and Karakas, letting him cantrip into business and Blood moons.

-Punishing Fires (could've kept to burn him out a few times), Decays I think
+Thoughtseizes, Krosan Grip, Ray Revel (should've brought in Surgicals)

Elves I got lucky with either drawing early Tabernacle or Crop Rotation each game, and was able to wipe out his elves with Fires and Vortex. Game 1 he managed to break through with Cradle to be able to Hoof me through a Marit Lage.

Still learning the deck, it feels fine but I think the pilot needs to be aggressive with the control elements.

The Entomb toolbox is definitely powerful, and I think there's a lot of utility in there. Haas uses:

Ancient Grudge
Coffin Purge
Ray Revelation
Flame Jab

There may be better options, or others worth considering (Vengeful Pharoah, Heaven//Earth, Moment's Peace).

[TTX]

Hey I've been playing around with a modified version of Kennen's list, incorporating some of the suggestions from this thread. I thought I'd share my list.
I really dig the deck overall, super fun, very different every game. The deck has so much synergy sometimes it's difficult to make the optimal decision.

I've been having issues against D&T (grind and protection), BR Reanimator (speed), Sneak and Show (speed/non-interactive), Burn (speed).
Vengeful Pharaoh is amazing against Eldrazi, Reanimator, and Eldrazi.
Ashen Rider is a either a lucky Show and Tell or Entomb/Exhume spike.
I would not go below 3 Mirri's Guile. I could see using 1 Sylvan Library, but turn 1 is so much better and I'd rather be able to screen my Life from the Loam dredges.
Card advantage is gained elsewhere.


// 60 Maindeck
1 Nether Spirit

3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
1 Raven's Crime
4 Mox Diamond
3 Mirri's Guile
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Punishing Fire
4 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb

// 29 Land
2 Dark Depths
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Swamp
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
4 Wasteland
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
1 Taiga

// 15 Sideboard
SB: 1 Vengeful Pharaoh
SB: 1 Ashen Rider
SB: 1 Molten Vortex
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Coffin Purge
SB: 1 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Flame Jab
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 1 Raven's Crime
SB: 3 Thoughtseize

Any suggestions?

[Albarkhane]

Some kind of necromancy on the topic but i am wondering if that deck could be interesting in the current meta (and if other players are still playing it).

As it is my first post here, i guess i shall say a few words on how i came to that deck. A few years ago, i got tired of playing blue decks so i worked some on POX decks. At first, it was just out of nostalgia from old school black decks and only for fun games. But soon i came to the conclusion that mono black POX could never be really competitive until they get a way to filter/draw and a reliable kill (i mean a kill that one can get when it is needed). So i explored BG POX decks for some time when a friend of mine gave me the link toward Kennen Haas first Jund Depths list. Wow, it was exactly what i was looking for ... only it was much better than what i could have brew ! Since then, i played no other deck (in Legacy i mean) !

The first lesson i learned was : it is not a Land deck ! When i first played it, i kept loosing with it (quite a lot actually) until i understood that point. So i played it like a POX, and i kept winning with it ! For me, the best view about it is to consider it is a BG POX that happens to use punishing fire instead of cabal pit, and that happens to use Dark Depths as a kill. OK, now and then, one should run into the combo but it should be only particular cases, not the rule.

I won several small (less than 20 people) tournaments and Top8-ed in more big and competitive ones (best results so far 2nd out of 50 people). The deck has the potential for doing great stuff, as Kennen Haas has proven several times, but it is very difficult to play with and one must know very well the meta and the various matchup. So i am here to share some experience with other people interested by the deck so we can improve.

Basically my MD list is the same as Kennen Haas (last iteration of it) but my sideboard is a bit different. Actually not that much but there are some slots that are still floating.

Let's talk about some matchup then :

- Elves
Tabernacle is our best friend (it is the only matchup where the one in the sideboard is really necessary) since it negates their craddles. We must deal with their opening hand, if they have too many creatures we must target the ones that are synergy. The plan is that they don't draw any additional card, then our CA will do the job.

- Reanimator (BR)
We need an opening hand able to deal with their first reanimate target (but we have plenty of solution for that) because most of the time they will be quicker than us there. IMHO, victories will be close but it is not a difficult matchup.

- Red stompy
This matchup can be a nightmare but we have some tools. Moxen and Riftstone portal are critical. Nether spirit can shine too (i won some games where i could not cast a single spell but put online a spirit that did the job ...). Do not forget the 'new' rule about blood moon (with Dark Depths). Abrupt decay can help you breath some but basically the matchup is very difficult and i am not sure to have any good plan for it.

- 4C Control
They have two sideboard cards that can be devastating : diabolic edict and surgical extraction. We need to play around them. Edict can be dealt with using discard. As for surgical, we must play very tight so to limit the hurt from the card. It is not so difficult a matchup and game 1 is usually ours, but we must play very tight.

I could go on but i am not sure some-one will read the post so let's stop for now ....

[pettdan]

I'm reading, go on.. :)

[Mr. Safety]

I've considered this as well. Right now I'm grinding a Bg depths deck that tries to hybride between mid-range confidant/Drs deck and depths combo.

I'm reading too...

[Albarkhane]

It is nice to see there is some interest for this deck. :)

Let's go on about some more matchup ...

Storm
We can put online raven's crime engine quite easily and we have additional discard post-board. Holding a crop rotation in hand for Bujuka bog or Tabernacle (if they go for the empty the warren plan) is great too. If they get too greedy with ad nauseam, punishing fire can be a nice punishment. Post-board, an entombed coffin purge is a silver bullet to catch past in flame and make them fizzle. We can try to go all-in for the combo but we should know that they are usually quicker than us. To sum it up, it is a difficult matchup but we are not defenseless.

Grixis Delver
Basically the same problem as 4C control. We can deal with their creature but the hate they will board in can be a nightmare.

Land
I tested that matchup and i have a plan (secret tech, lol) but i did not get paired against land in a tournament so far so i can't tell yet if it is worth it or not.

Burn
Entomb into Nether spirit is a must. Do not overextend because of price of progress (if possible try to get 2 moxen online). Post-board we need anti-enchantment to deal with the cards they will board in. You need to try this matchup but with enough testing it is not so difficult to win.

I guess this covers most of the important matchups.

Let's try some open questions :
- What do you think about these strategies ?
- Why play this deck over classic land deck (or other decks) ? (my own answer is i get bored when i play land and i have lot of fun with this one ... not the most objective answer)
- Any hints or advice on how i can improve with it ?

[Albarkhane]

Not that much interest obviously ;)

[Ingo]

- Why play this deck over classic land deck (or other decks) ? (my own answer is i get bored when i play land and i have lot of fun with this one ... not the most objective answer)

The problem with Jund Depths is that there's almost no reason to play this over Lands. The decks play very similar and while it has a leverage in dealing with TNN through sacrificial effects in a poxlike way, it looses a lot of advantage in having a much slower Wincon and a weaker loamplan. So why wouldn't you run RG or RUG Lands instead (objective answers required)?

[SanderM]

Good day everyone! ^_^

After playing RUG Lands, R/G Lands and B/G pox im going to give this deck for a spin. Lets try to get this Thread on its feet again.

@Albarkhane. First of all thanks for the revival of this thread. This is really a fun and rewarding deck to play. Plus the look on an opponents face when you succesfully resolve smallpox is priceless 9 out of 10 times.

Please allow me to give my 2 cents on the things spoken of earlier.

- Reanimator (BR)
Our best plan is to combo into Bojuka Bog + Thespian's Stage which is a hard lock in this matchup.

How does this provide a hard lock? Bojuka Bog has an "Enters the battlefield" trigger. Thespian's Stage won't be able to trigger it with its copy ability. Since it is already on the battlefield.

The problem with Jund Depths is that there's almost no reason to play this over Lands. The decks play very similar and while it has a leverage in dealing with TNN through sacrificial effects in a poxlike way, it looses a lot of advantage in having a much slower Wincon and a weaker loamplan. So why wouldn't you run RG or RUG Lands instead (objective answers required)?

The deck doesn't play like lands. Like Albarkhane mentioned, it leans more on the pox side. Meaning getting an opponent hellbent is more important then keeping him off lands. You gotta think of it as a pox deck but with Punishing Fire in addition.

Currently im almost running the exact list as Kennen does/did. However, i have removed 1 Maze of Ith and replaced it with Collective Brutality. I placed the second Maze of Ith in the sideboard cause i don't own a second copy of the The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Mainboard.

Lands

2 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Maze of Ith
1 Riftstone Portal
1 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Spells

1 Nether Spirit
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
4 Entomb
4 Life from the Loam
2 Punishing Fire
1 Raven's Crime
1 Collective Brutality
4 Smallpox
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mirri's Guile
4 Mox Diamond

Sideboard.

1 Ancient Grudge
1 Coffin Purge
1 Crop Rotation
1 Flame Jab
1 Innocent Blood
1 Karakas
1 Massacre
1 Molten Vortex
1 Nature's Claim
1 Raven's Crime
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Maze of Ith
3 Thoughtseize


I'm considering to replace the Thoughtseize with Duress and the Innocent Blood with Diabolic Edict. Reason is because i only run Thoughtseize against combo anyway. Reason for replacing the Innocent Blood with Diabolic Edict is because of other Marit Lage based decks.

Any thoughts/suggestions/comments on this?