Jund Depths

[Manroe]

@Bayou: Thought about it. Maybe you are right here. As i said, tuning the lands configuration isn't so easy.
@Garruk Relentless: Only 1 Green so easy splashable. Why we can't cast a single 4 drop in games, were we won't max out Smallpox and Wasteland effects against Controlbuilds with a solid mana base. Against Miracles spam the field with dudes between Terminus, Verdict and RIP isn't so bad, especially against Mr. Jace and with some helpfull Punishing Fire Action. Against BUG Variants, Liliana can't defend herself against a Decay. If decks like Walking Dead with only 20 lands can bring a single Koth of the Hammer against Control Decks, we can also bring Garruk. If you need more aggro, Koth maybe is also an option along with 4 Badlands.
@Toxic and Sideboard Slots: Yeah more than enough room for each direction. I also like the Golgari Charm (good against UWR, because you can kill TNN or RIP) or maybe a Maelstrom Pulse, Engineered Explosives etc.

My first test results are solid enough - we have a base to improve the deck idea. But it needs a lot more discussion and gaming.

Right, unfortunately, I haven't been able to to commit as much time to this as I would have liked given that it is finals time.. Over break, I will get more play-testing in.

[Umbranex]

Yea I dont get much of a chance to playtest but I am about to get a MtGO account and this will be one of the first decks I work on putting together. If I can build it reasonably fast Ill post Tournament reports from the dailies and 2man queues and my thoughts about each variation in the build I use.

[klaus]

Hey peeps,

I've been doing further testing and tweaking. Here's what I ended up with for the time being:

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Life from the Loam

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood

4 YP

1 F. Looting
1 Sensei's Divining Top
(33)

4 Mox Diamond (after adding the third LftL and cutting Deed from the main, going with the full playset made a lot of sense. Also turn 1 Hymn/YP/Decay and turn 2 Lili is nothing to sneeze at, while it's a beautiful mana fixer especially in the wake of Blood Moon and opposing Wastelands)
4 Polluted Delta (allows us to bluff counter magic turn 1)
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
3 Barren Moor (added one for more C/A)

SB:
2 P. Deed
3 REB
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
2 Pyroclasm
4 Chalice (currently my go to Combo hate, which can come down @1 turn 1 via Mox. CMC1 is OK, as it really only interferes with IoK and to a certain degree with REB Gs2/3

What other Combo hate would you consider? I feel discard just doesn't suffice with such a slow clock..
Also, after brief testing I cut Bloodghast for two reasons: 1) he cannot block, while we're on the defense for most of the game, 2) I did not want to be even more dependant on the gy.

Edit: nevertheless, I'd love to squeeze 4 more kill cons in there - ideally a non-creature-thingy that isn't gy dependant and not only deals dmg but also disrupts the opponent. Obviously Planeswalkers come to mind, but I fail to see any PW being affordable - as I mentioned: CMC 4 is really tough to achieve at times..

[Manroe]

Hey peeps,

I've been doing further testing and tweaking. Here's what I ended up with for the time being:

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Life from the Loam

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood

4 YP

1 F. Looting
1 Sensei's Divining Top
(33)

4 Mox Diamond (after adding the third LftL and cutting Deed from the main, going with the full playset made a lot of sense. Also turn 1 Hymn/YP/Decay and turn 2 Lili is nothing to sneeze at, while it's a beautiful mana fixer especially in the wake of Blood Moon and opposing Wastelands)
4 Polluted Delta (allows us to bluff counter magic turn 1)
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
3 Barren Moor (added one for more C/A)

SB:
2 P. Deed
3 REB
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
2 Pyroclasm
4 Chalice (currently my go to Combo hate, which can come down @1 turn 1 via Mox. CMC1 is OK, as it really only interferes with IoK and to a certain degree with REB Gs2/3

What other Combo hate would you consider? I feel discard just doesn't suffice with such a slow clock..
Also, after brief testing I cut Bloodghast for two reasons: 1) he cannot block, while we're on the defense for most of the game, 2) I did not want to be even more dependant on the gy.

Edit: nevertheless, I'd love to squeeze 4 more kill cons in there - ideally a non-creature-thingy that isn't gy dependant and not only deals dmg but also disrupts the opponent. Obviously Planeswalkers come to mind, but I fail to see any PW being affordable - as I mentioned: CMC 4 is really tough to achieve at times..

This is probably a terrible idea, but what about Tibalt? or Tymaret the Murder King alongside Ghast? idk just bad ideas but something to tinker with. Also, I have found that a 1 of Sylvan Library may not be a bad idea. EDIT: Or Hypnotic Spectre?

[Umbranex]

Hey peeps,

I've been doing further testing and tweaking. Here's what I ended up with for the time being:

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Hymn to Tourach

3 Life from the Loam

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood

4 YP

1 F. Looting
1 Sensei's Divining Top
(33)

4 Mox Diamond (after adding the third LftL and cutting Deed from the main, going with the full playset made a lot of sense. Also turn 1 Hymn/YP/Decay and turn 2 Lili is nothing to sneeze at, while it's a beautiful mana fixer especially in the wake of Blood Moon and opposing Wastelands)
4 Polluted Delta (allows us to bluff counter magic turn 1)
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
3 Barren Moor (added one for more C/A)

SB:
2 P. Deed
3 REB
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Extirpate
2 Pyroclasm
4 Chalice (currently my go to Combo hate, which can come down @1 turn 1 via Mox. CMC1 is OK, as it really only interferes with IoK and to a certain degree with REB Gs2/3

What other Combo hate would you consider? I feel discard just doesn't suffice with such a slow clock..
Also, after brief testing I cut Bloodghast for two reasons: 1) he cannot block, while we're on the defense for most of the game, 2) I did not want to be even more dependant on the gy.

Edit: nevertheless, I'd love to squeeze 4 more kill cons in there - ideally a non-creature-thingy that isn't gy dependant and not only deals dmg but also disrupts the opponent. Obviously Planeswalkers come to mind, but I fail to see any PW being affordable - as I mentioned: CMC 4 is really tough to achieve at times..

I can see why you would want to go away from being too heavily invested in the gy especially with RiP running around right now... have you thought of trying underworld dreams perhaps? its a slow clock at worst and against blue it makes all of their cantrips and draw absolutely terrible. being an enchantment its more resilient especially game one and with mox you can drop it turn 2. between dreams and all the discard available it will put a lot of decks in a rough spot of wanting to filter/draw and getting burned if they do. Not sure how viable this is but since Pox is inherently grindy and tends to favor long games of attrition anyway I would think it could be a decent kill condition

[Manroe]

What about running Pyrostatic Pillar as a combo breaker in the board? I think that would be a pretty decent thing to have against many of the combo decks.

[klaus]

What about running Pyrostatic Pillar as a combo breaker in the board? I think that would be a pretty decent thing to have against many of the combo decks.

Problem is Pillar hurts us almost as bad plus Chalice is applicable to more MUs (basically anything running a high CMC 1 count)

[KazinMtg]

How about something like this?


4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood
4 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
1 Darkblast
1 Ravens Crime
1 Nether Spirit
33

3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
26



The Entomb is basically a 1 mana demonic tutor in this deck. You can fetch loam, pfire, nether spirit, or your grove after you get a loam. It literally tutors your whole deck. Ravens crime is an insane target since you have the loam engine to abuse. Darkblast is optional, but could be a cute entomb target as well. Also once you have a loam, all the lands in your deck are entomb targets. Need to get rid of their GY? Entomb a Bojuka bog and loam it back. Want to end the game? Entomb your dark depths/thespian stage and win on the spot. Thespian stage can also be a wasteland one turn, then be loamed back to turn into a 20/20 producing land. Then again and again if they can actually deal with a 20/20 flying indestructible.

You could also tinker around with other fancy lands in this deck like a single tabernacle, cabal pit, possibly port. There are all sorts of fancy ways this deck can go with 4 entomb.

Also, I think the 1 crop rotation could be really good to fuel your loam and get the land you need.

Anyways, awesome idea. I think I'm going to sleeve this up and mess around with it.

[klaus]

How about something like this?


4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Life from the Loam
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood
4 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
1 Darkblast
1 Ravens Crime
1 Nether Spirit
33

3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
1 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mishra's Factory
2 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
26



The Entomb is basically a 1 mana demonic tutor in this deck. You can fetch loam, pfire, nether spirit, or your grove after you get a loam. It literally tutors your whole Ravens crime is an insane target in this deck since you have the loam engine to abuse. Darkblast is optional, but could be a cute entomb target as well. Also once you have a loam, all the lands in your deck are entomb targets. Need to get rid of their GY? Entomb a Bojuka bog and loam it back. Want to end the game? Entomb your dark depths/thespian stage and win on the spot. Thespian stage can also be a wasteland one turn, then be loamed back to turn into a 20/20 producing land. Then again and again if they can actually deal with a 20/20 flying indestructible.

You could also tinker around with other fancy lands in this deck like a single tabernacle, cabal pit, possibly port. There are all sorts of fancy ways this deck can go with 4 entomb.

Also, I think the 1 crop rotation could be really good to fuel your loam and get the land you need.

Anyways, awesome idea. I think I'm going to sleeve this up and mess around with it.

List looks cool on paper, but going all in on the gy approach will cost you many post-board games.
Darkblast is neat, as it's on-color and recurable, but I'd probably rather max out on P. Fires. Remember that you splash R just for this spell. Entomb is also cute, though if I went the tutor route I'd also consider Burning Wish, since it gives you outs to most situations. Dark Stage, I really like might test it.
Greetings
klaus

[MD.Ghost]

I also like the idea to get the 20/20 Endgame-Land-Combo. A little bit harder compared to Mishra but if you control the Game and get Loam/Punishing working it is a much faster way to win.

You can mix it up with Crop Rotation or (as we speak about Wishes) build the deck with 2 Living Wish (5 Slots for Sideboard like: Bojuka Bog, Stage+Depths, Grove, Karakas) so less vulnerable to graveyard hate.

I also like Entomb, but no one needs a playset (besides Tin Fins and Reanimator), you can use 1-2 compared to an enlightened tutor toolbox. A flexible tool but a little bit less "all in".

Manabase isn't stable enough. You want Red, Green and double Black and will also suffer from wastelands and smallpox. So i don't like 4 Hymn (sure it is a very good spell but you can't get it all). So 2-4 Mox Diamond is a good card (like klaus mentioned) for this deck again.

Sideboard needs some "non graveyard" cards. Creatures like Confi or Permanents like Bitterblossom.

[klaus]

I also like the idea to get the 20/20 Endgame-Land-Combo.

In fact this idea could be sufficiently sexy to test MD Chalice to stop Marit's most common cause of death: STP.
Here's what I'll take for a walk tonight:

4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Life from the Loam
3 Living Wish
2 Vampire Hexmage
(32)

4 Mox Diamond
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
(28)

SB:
1 Hexmage (?)
1 Bog
1 Stage
1 Depths
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland (?)
1 Thrun
1 Phyrexian Walker
1 Shriekmaw (?)
2 Deed
2 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Needle

Edit: I really like how this deck gains complete board control and then goes oops I win or slowly kills via P. Fire :) Also am happy I could get rid of Young Pyromancer, as he just doesn't have the impact it as in URx cantrip decks. Now that the G count has actually increased I had the 2nd Bayou return, even thought about adding basic Forest - still undecided.
Now that a 2 card combo has become part of the skelleton, I'm inclined to add back 1-2 Tops, not sure what to cut though...

[KazinMtg]

The reason I went with the 4 entomb was a nod to ali antrazis pox list that I threw together a while back. Let me see if I can pull up the list...

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...th_ali_ai.html

The entombs really smoothed out the whole deck, and with the pfire engine, it will smooth it out even more. That being said, it might be the correct play to cut to 2-3 entomb, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it as a 4 of until you try it out. It's very very powerful in this deck since it can get literally all your key pieces. I also really like ravens crime with loam.

Solid idea on mox diamond in here. Seems like a natural fit. I'll tinker around with my list tonight and see what I can come up with.

[Manroe]

The more I play this deck and test all of the different variations, the more I love it. I'll be playing at a legacy local event tomorrow, and I'll post a list and a recap as soon as I can!

[Manroe]

Hey everyone, I am playing tomorrow, and I know that there is a good chance I'll be up against Burn at some point. Any sideboard ideas for this match-up besides relying on a misers Zuran Orb?? I am fairly sure this is our worst matchup.

[klaus]

Hey everyone, I am playing tomorrow, and I know that there is a good chance I'll be up against Burn at some point. Any sideboard ideas for this match-up besides relying on a misers Zuran Orb?? I am fairly sure this is our worst matchup.

Cha-to-da-lice ;)
As you saw, I'm rocking it MD atm and loving it.

[Manroe]

Cha-to-da-lice ;)
As you saw, I'm rocking it MD atm and loving it.

Surprisingly, this isnt that much of an answer. On top Of all of the one drops, he has flame rifts, hellsparks, rift bolt, PoP, and fireblast. I've lost to it with chalice out before when I played UB Tezzy

[klaus]

Surprisingly, this isnt that much of an answer. On top Of all of the one drops, he has flame rifts, hellsparks, rift bolt, PoP, and fireblast. I've lost to it with chalice out before when I played UB Tezzy

Typically between 16 & 20 spells you'll find in regular Burn lists are CMC1, which marks more than a third of their spells - not too bad imo. Being able to set another at two kills another 16/20 spells, though being able to find 2 Chalices is rare w/o library manipulation.

The answer which should make this MU about 50% is Marit Lage :)

My current list boasts a strong focus on Dark Stage as the only wincon next to P. Fire. In fact I have moved far away from the OP suggestions and will likely start a new N/D thread based on it.
For reference, here's my weapon of choice:

4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Hymn
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Punishing Fire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Life from the Loam
3 EE
(30)

4 Mox Diamond
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Badlands
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Swamp
2 Urborg
1 Barren Moor
3 Thespian Stage
3 Dark Depths
(30)

SB:
3 Choke
3 Deed
3 Crypt
1 Extirpate
3 Canonist
2 Duress

[Manroe]

Okay All, I have some event results. I ran a slightly offbeat list based on what I had available to me. Also, it is important to note that I play at a small store, which usually only averages about 8 people per legacy event. We are working on getting people there, but the meta is pretty predictable. Every Tuesday there is usually 1-2 Burn, 1 Reanimator, 1 Bant, 1 Dredge, 1 Mono White Stax, 1-2 Elves.
Nonetheless, here is my list for tonight:


4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Smallpox
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach

3 Life from the Loam
3 Entomb

3 Punishing Fire
2 Innocent Blood
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Darkblast
1 Raven's Crime

3 Bloodghast

1 Sylvan Library
1 Crop Rotation
(35)

2 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Swamp
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Mishra's Factory
(25)

SB:
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Plague
2 Garruk Wildspeaker (wanted some win-con that wasn't GY reliant)
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Zuran Orb
(15)


Round 1: U/B Reanimator (2-1)
G1 - He wins die roll. He ponders on t1. I cabal therapy for exhume and brick, he goes t2 petal, show and tell, Griselbrand. Goes down to 5, beats my face in. Never saw a sac outlet and I missed a BG trigger somewhere in there. I noted to myself to be more careful about those. Oh well, to the board. (L)

G2: Board in Crypt, Extraction, Bridge, Thoughtseize (only on the play), pulse. Board out cabal therapy, hymn. I open with thoughtseize and yank a careful study. T2 I waste his land, t3 loam. Got a nice engine going and beat him down while he flooded out. I won with Mishras Factory and Punishing Fire. (W)

G3: He plays a fetch, passes. I do the same. T2 he ponders, puts cards in order, draws. Then plays another fetch and passes. I EOT entomb a Cabal Therapy. T2 I play Ghast and therapy him naming F.o.W and yank 1 out of his hand. His hand at this point is full of land and durdle-y stuff. I land a t3 Ensnaring Bridge and get the P Fire engine going to cruise to the win. (W)
[1-0]

Round 2: Dredge (1-2)
G1: I win the roll, I mull to 5, he keeps a very questionable hand which I see on a t1 therapy for careful study. t2 I play Ghast and flashback hitting his breakthrough. He really didn't dredge well and I was able to win via BG. NOTE: I did remove his Bridges twice with Punishing Fire targeting my own ghasts. (W)

G2: He combos off t2, I had nothing to disrupt t1, but my hand was too good to mull. Sided in Crypt, Extraction, didn't see either. (L)

G3: A really good game, I just happened to be on the wrong end of things. I extracted ichorid after he looted t1. a few dredges later and I crop rotated into bojuka bog, leaving his board at 1 City of Brass and 3 Cephalid Coliseum. He drew a couple cards and I whittled him down to 3, then he topdecks breakthrough and combos on the spot. Really tough loss, but he had the better combination of skill and luck. (L)
[1-1]

Round 3: Bant (0-2)
I was looking forward to playing this player, as he is really a good player and I thought I had a favorable matchup.

G1: I kept a greedy hand and paid for it. He wasted my urborg and kept me off of a hymn and 2 smallpox. This one is totally on me. He just got batterskull and bashed. (L)

G2: I side in Garruk and Decays, out 1 entomb, 1 ghast, 1 crop rotation, and 1 darkblast. A Really really long, drawn out hard fought game. I had to keep a Jace in check that landed with punishing fires, and he hovered around 30 life most of the game. I hit no discard and untimely smallpoxes, but I had the loam engine going and got him down to 3 lands. I also kept his hand in check with Raven's Crime. Sadly, his Jace got up to about 9 loyalty before I could do much with it. This kept me occupied for about 5-6 turns, and he rips a well timed Stoneforge and then True-Name to close it up. I know I made at least 1 misplay that allowed jace to remain in play one turn longer. This game was incredibly long and I saw not a single bloodghast all game and didn't get Mishra's into the GY. (L)
[1-2]

So, as you can see, not the best first outing for me. However, I was really impressed with the deck and look forward to playing it more. I think that I really need the Dark Depths combo somewhere in the list and also know that crop rotation is probably much weaker without the combo in the deck.

Just a couple ideas, maybe go ahead and get a Dreadbore or two in the 75, and I think a Worm's Harvest in the board would be a good call. This is my first event recap ever, so play nice! Any ideas?
EDIT: Another card that could actually be a viable addition to the deck is lightning storm. With the Loam engine, it could be a really powerful card.

[Manroe]

Okay all, legacy cancelled tonight, so no reports will be posted tonight. Happy Holidays to all!

[KazinMtg]

I just want to point out that you can totally play a combo of bloodghast and nether spirit successfully. I notice people typically do one or the other, but I've found 1 spirit and 2-4 bloodghast is very solid, since the spirit can block in a pinch, and bloodghast is good at getting out of the yard so spirit can go to work.