Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: How does Scapeshift win games?

  1. #1

    How does Scapeshift win games?

    I have been reading tournament reports where people scapeshift for 20+ damage. This seems really hard to do, since you would need at least 11 lands in play in order to get 2 valakut, 5 mountains to "activate triggers", and 4 more mountains to do 24 damage. Am I missing something here or do these games last really long and they are just lucky enough to have 9 mountains left in their deck?

  2. #2
    Vintage

    Join Date

    Apr 2005
    Location

    West Coast Degeneracy
    Posts

    5,135

    Re: How does Scapeshift win games?

    Relevant rule with regards to Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle:

    603.4. A triggered ability may read "When/Whenever/At [trigger event], if [condition], [effect]." When the trigger event occurs, the ability checks whether the stated condition is true. The ability triggers only if it is; otherwise it does nothing. If the ability triggers, it checks the stated condition again as it resolves. If the condition isn't true at that time, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Note that this mirrors the check for legal targets. This rule is referred to as the "intervening 'if' clause" rule. (The word "if" has only its normal English meaning anywhere else in the text of a card; this rule only applies to an "if" that immediately follows a trigger condition.)

    Additionally, clarification is provided from Oracle:

    10/1/2009: If multiple Mountains enter the battlefield under your control at the same time, Valakut's second ability could trigger that many times. Each ability takes into consideration the other Mountains that entered the battlefield at the same time as the one that caused it to trigger.

    Scapeshift's effect puts all the lands onto the battlefield simultaneously. Then, any application triggers from that effect would be checked. In this case, Valakut would check to see if a Mountain entered the battlefield, and if 5 other Mountains are also in play, for each land that enters play. For all non-Mountains, that land would not trigger Valakut. For each Mountain that enters, Valakut would first check if 5 other Mountains exist on the battlefield, then if the condition is met, a trigger would be generated.

    For instance, suppose Scapeshift is cast with 8 lands sacrificed, and the player finds 2 Valakut and 6 Mountains, all of which enter the battlefield simultaneously.

    Valakut #1 would see itself, Valakut #2, and 6 Mountains.
    Valakut #2 would see itself, Valakut #1, and 6 Mountains.
    Valakut #1 would see 6 Mountains enter the battlefield, and for each one, at least 5 other are also present, so Valakut #1 would trigger six times, once for each Mountain.
    Valakut #2 would see 6 Mountains enter the battlefield, and for each one, at least 5 other are also present, so Valakut #2 would trigger six times, once for each Mountain.

    Net result: Twelve triggers from 2 Valakuts and 6 Mountains.
    West side
    Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
    * Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
    My Legacy stream
    My MTG Blog - Work in progress

  3. #3
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,776

    Re: How does Scapeshift win games?

    And important distinction is that it still says 5 "other", and that while lands see each other while entering simultaneously, a Mountain does not see itself as an "other" mountain. After Scapeshift is done resolving, you need at least 6 total Mountains on the battlefield for Valakut to trigger at all.

    You'd think this was obvious, but before the 1st banning, I've had multiple players on MWS Scapeshift with 7 lands for 2 Valakut + 5 Mountain and not believe me that that equals 0 triggers...

    Scapeshift sacrificing 7 lands --> 1 Valakut + 6 Mountain = 6 triggers = 18 damage (often lethal in Modern)
    Scapeshift sacrificing 7 lands --> 2 Valakut + 5 Mountain = 0 triggers = 0 damage
    Scapeshift sacrificing 8 lands --> 2 Valakut + 6 Mountain = 12 triggers = 36 damage
    Scapeshift sacricifing 6 lands keeping 1 mountain out --> 1 Valakut + 5 new Mountains = 5 triggers = 15 damage (can be lethal in Modern)
    Scapeshift sacrificing 6 lands keeping 2 mountains out --> 2 Valakut + 4 new Mountains = 8 triggers = 24 damage

    You don't need that many lands or that many Mountains left in your library.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)