This isn't a troll post, and I'm sure i'll get flamed but all i want is just some idea's on why it hasn't been attempted yet? Sure deceiver and pester mite aren't as sexy as griselbrand / emrakul but winning is winning, so lets discuss pros / cons i missed.
16 combo pieces (4 deceiver, 4 pester + 8 splinter / kiki)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
9 Flex-slots (Imperial Recruiter, Spellskite, Spell Pierce, Sensei's Divining Top, Misdirection, Gitaxian Probe, Daze, Swan Song, and Flusterstorm are possibilities)
Pro's
1. Can run Imperial Recruiter to find either piece of the combo. This also opens up other SB potential.
2. has the option to make the combo uncountable with cavern of souls.
3. Doesn't cast show and tell and give opponent opportunity to fuck you up (oring, humility, their own griselbrand, any number of amazing cards)
4. doesn't have trouble with karakas
5. wins instantly
6. Doesn't fold to Ensnaring bridge
7. pester mite and deceiver aren't dead cards without enablers (kiki jiki / splinter twin)
8. Deceiver exarch blocks thalia and other 3/x creatures.
9. Has option to run white with village bell ringer...(doesn't seem like the strongest but could run that new spirit in white to fuck with blue decks)
Cons
1. Win con's cost slightly more 1 mana. Considering this is legacy 1 mana is a lot.
2. susceptible to swords to plowshares, abrupt decay (possibly solved with misdirection / Mother of runes if you choose to run white)
Last edited by apple713; 02-06-2014 at 10:40 PM.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Yeah I like the Splinter Twin combo myself.
Could play Spellskite to protect it somewhat?
The 9 flex spots is where you would really modify the deck defend its weaknesses.
It's hard to tell if the deck would be worse because it runs into different issues. Abrupt decay and swords become real issues, but now karakas, and whatever the opponent drops with S&T are not problems.
There are other issues I'm sure I'm not thinking of but that's why I wanted to discuss this
***EDIT - updated OP
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
I've tried it before, and the combo isn't compact enough to be castable in a single turn. Kiki-Jiki is rough on the mana, and everything isn't cheap. The best way I found was actually reanimating Kiki-Jiki and Deceiver Exarch via a Dredge/Hermit shell (deck yourself, Narco triggers, Dread Return twice). Otherwise, I just couldn't find a way to get the mana to actually pull of the combo before being killed myself (you need a mana base similar to Hive Mind, and at that point SnT Kiki actually looks pretty good but is stupidly underpowered).
I haven't really experimented with Pod builds, as those seem like they could be a way to go to search up the combo, but you still need something else to actually get them both into play.
at the point where you are reanimating the two you might as well play reanimator. I also really want to refrain from playing show and tell. additionally if you need to cast both pieces in 1 turn you can do it with as little as 1 sol land and 3 colored sources.
there is no denying it that it cost more mana, this is one of the major drawbacks. The real question is, is it enough to render the deck unviable?
Pod is a different deck and would require setup and more creatures.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
The first deck I played in Legacy was actually Twin. It wasn't very good, but I suppose building an optimal version might be interesting.
So the first question when proposing a new combo deck is: "what does this deck do better than other options?"
Well.
It's about $250 cheaper...which I guess is something. Apart from that, its pieces are not stone blanks on their own.
What does it do worse than comparable decks?
- (vs S&S) It takes 7-8 mana with 3-4 colored symbols to combo out. That's a lot more than 3-5 with 1-2 colored symbols.
- (vs Omni) It's solidly 2 colors and has to attack
- (vs both) It's vulnerable to creature and enchantment removal
So the combo allows for more interaction and is slower. That indicates simply dropping it into the same shell as other decks will lead to poor results, especially with regard to the manabase. However, is that the only way to build it?
No, Marcel Kachapow had a breakout success with "Tempo-Twin" at GP Prague (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...ra14/welcome#1).
That build attempts to leverage the fact that the combo is a bunch of creatures by supplementing it with burn. Ok, if we wanted to build a tempo-combo deck, how would we do that?
First, the obvious 4-ofs:
4 Snapcaster
4 Pestermite
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
It's not clear at this point if it's a 3 Splinter Twin deck like some of the more recent ones on MODO, how many Deceiver Exarchs, if it wants Delver (might not be enough spells), and how many Pierces it wants. Other questions are Mizzium Skin, Spellskite, Gitaxian Probe, and the rest of the burn suite.
Here's one option:
// Creatures - 12
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Pestermite
2 Deceiver Exarch
// Spells - 30
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Splinter Twin
4 Force of Will
// Lands - 18
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Mountain
3 Volcanic Island
First off, note there's no Sol lands. Those things are garbage. You have extremely tight mana requirements. Second, 4 Gitaxian Probe makes it more likely that you'll be able to Snapcaster Mage on 2 and also help you to know if you can combo out. Third, this deck is going to be tough to play correctly, just like in Modern. You have to be adept at figuring out what role you want to play in a matchup. Fortunately, there's plenty of cantrips and hand information to help sculpt that plan. Fourth, there's no Daze. You're trying to resolve a 4-mana sorcery. Come on.
There should probably either be Spellskites in the board for Abrupt Decay decks, or you want to board out the combo and just Price of Progress them. 4 Delver, 4 Price might be a decent start to a board. Blood Moon is another option.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
I probbly wouldn't run Kiki Jiki because it is too much mana and would splash White instead for Enlightened Tutor which can find a win con (Splinter Twin) or Combo protection (Spellskite), Pestermite/Exarch can also untap a land to cast the Tutor. You have access to up to 12 creatures which can be enchanted with Splinter Twin to win so getting a Tutor for the creatures isn't as important. I'd probably also run 1 Seat of the Synod and 1 Great Furnace because of how mana intensive the combo is and you don't have any rituals, you might need to make sure you can draw a land at some point.
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