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Thread: Grand Architect

  1. #41

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    With a snarky comment or meaningful discussion?
    A complety discussion !!! I`n active .. all day search for pieces, and can bring some discussion and idea that i had. I was in MTGS, but ppl just stop to discuss

    I was seeking for new ideas, and find here, and want to modernize the deck (no intentional pun)

  2. #42

    Re: Grand Architect

    Now i can do this ..

    here is my current list:


    1x Blightsteel Colossus
    4x Grand Architect
    4x Lodestone Golem
    3x Master Transmuter
    4x Myr Superion
    2x Spellskite
    2x Sphinx Summoner
    1x Treasure Mage
    2x Wurmcoil Engine

    3x Serum Visions

    4x Heartless Summoning

    2x Ensnaring Bridge
    3x Lightning Greaves
    1x Spine of Ish Sah

    2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    1x Academy Ruins
    2x Flooded Strand
    7x Island
    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Sunken Hollow
    2x Swamp
    2x Watery Grave

    ---

    I. i'n playing wiht HS+GA with a support os Master Transmuter trickers, Tax wiht Lodestone (he is so strong and should include in all list) and aggro wiht myrs, and love the ramp and blink i can do but missed some responde/spot removal lately. Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas can be a must too, he can win a game by himself.

    Any opnion about the list ?

    ---

    II. I not tested yet this, but my plan is test this weekend, a more tax build with a shell of Lodestone, Sundering Titan and Frost Titan. Nowadays, are many 3Colors deck with Shock lands, and a trick with Master Transmuter can slam Sundering Titan T4, next titan tapping land and Lodestone last stuck

    ---

    III. Other card i have back to consider is Master of etherium, and read this thread, see a consideration about him. I Guess, he can bring more consistence to aggro plan, makes Lodestone resistence better and Superir more intimidating, with multiples attack angle, and tezz more options.

    ---

    More cards to consider:

    Glint-Nest Crane, Chief Engineer, Havengul Lich, Mindslaver, Executioner's Capsule


    ---

    i guess this is all i have to (re)start the thread.

  3. #43

    Re: Grand Architect

    Any particular reason why a deck with an artifact fetching theme, need for cheap artifacts for Transmuter, and a possible infinite mana finisher is not running Walking Ballista? Seems like an auto-include to me...

  4. #44

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    Any particular reason why a deck with an artifact fetching theme, need for cheap artifacts for Transmuter, and a possible infinite mana finisher is not running Walking Ballista? Seems like an auto-include to me...
    My use for transmuter is for tricks responses and stuck pieces as last cases Ensnaring Bridge (put bridge-pass-remove-attack-put bridge-pass), surprise blocks, destroy tech with Spine as i dont have other removes spells, replace pieces removing target from paths, Colossus on T4 and this possibles tech on the reach, reuse the tutor Sphinx Summoner. Depending on the starting hand and matchup this make all diference in many games for me, to scape from big attacks. maybe the local meta should taken in consideration. in the past i used this tech with avoid creature like Esperzoa for free bounce de bridge.

    Totally forgot the Walking ballist and i consider it so much, include use it with Contagion Engine (again, Transmuter can act nice here i gues) as mas removing and multiplies the +1 on ballista, it's a so flex card with many possibilites and grow each cicle

  5. #45
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    Re: Grand Architect

    If you're playing Master Transmuter, I would strongly consider Phyrexian Metamorph. My initial builds of the Heartless Summoning/Grand Architect played multiple copies of Metamorph, as my primary plan was to create multiple copies of Lodestone Golem to just lock people out or to copy multiple Wurmcoil Engine and dominate the board. The problem I always had was that, as good as Lodestone Golem can be, it dies to all the commonly played removal, especially when it's getting -1/-1 from Heartless Summoning. That said, with Lightning Bolt being slightly less played at the moment (because of Fatal Push and the need to kill huge Tarmogoyfs and Death's Shadows, maybe the Golem is better positioned.

    What I think this deck really wants is Chalice of the Void to just shut off opposing removal. The problem is, it doesn't fit well into the curve when you're looking to drop Heartless Summoning on 2. Maybe playing Dimir Signet/Talisman of Dominance to ramp into Chalice + Summoning on turn 3 is a better plan? With all that in mind, the main problem I had playing the deck was that there just weren't any good turn 1 plays, because you didn't want to run many nonartifact spells because of Lodestone Golem.

    I think there is something here with the Architect/Summoning shell, but finding the right build has eluded me. I either found myself just being a worse prison deck than Lantern Control or a less consistent aggro deck than Affinity.

    Perhaps Walking Ballista gives some added merit to the Grand Architect + Pili-Pala combo? I haven't been a huge fan of that combo historically, but maybe it slots in somewhere; likely without Heartless Summoning as part of the deck.

  6. #46

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    If you're playing Master Transmuter, I would strongly consider Phyrexian Metamorph. My initial builds of the Heartless Summoning/Grand Architect played multiple copies of Metamorph, as my primary plan was to create multiple copies of Lodestone Golem to just lock people out or to copy multiple Wurmcoil Engine and dominate the board. The problem I always had was that, as good as Lodestone Golem can be, it dies to all the commonly played removal, especially when it's getting -1/-1 from Heartless Summoning. That said, with Lightning Bolt being slightly less played at the moment (because of Fatal Push and the need to kill huge Tarmogoyfs and Death's Shadows, maybe the Golem is better positioned.
    I have tested Phyrexian Metamorph and have mixed feeling about it, and his flexibility is a point we can count too, he can win copying something your and of your opponent keys to win, its nice, i`ll return my testes wit it.

    I try to remove Master Transmuter, but always i think to cut, this card win a game for me with your tricks, be a bounce key, removing cards like Grafdigger's Cage Pithing Needle from destroy or multiples Spine of Ish Sah toss, or a bridge tech to stuck, then i give up the cut.

    I agree the part Lodestone Golem can be bolt vunerable, thinking about that, i came to consider Master of Etherium as part the aggro plan to bring mor resistence for all ur guys, include Spellskite, Phyrexian Metamorph can enter in it, be like Lodestone copy of more Etherium, but my cards not arrived yet to playet this to say more about. But so many games just won tossing 2 golens in sequence, its nice btw. Because of that i was to consider Thorn of Amethyst Defense Grid too.

    my Frost Titan consideration is to suport that, he enter we can tap a land and have a natural tax in it, grow it architect, with lodestone can a be a hard removal thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    What I think this deck really wants is Chalice of the Void to just shut off opposing removal. The problem is, it doesn't fit well into the curve when you're looking to drop Heartless Summoning on 2. Maybe playing Dimir Signet/Talisman of Dominance to ramp into Chalice + Summoning on turn 3 is a better plan? With all that in mind, the main problem I had playing the deck was that there just weren't any good turn 1 plays, because you didn't want to run many nonartifact spells because of Lodestone Golem.
    Agree too, last night, i was looking the build and think in this and consider Chalice as MB, with pain in heart to move Bridge to side and 2 Chalice in main, as sometimes we can play slowly, maybe it dont fight with HS as T2, and a T3 drop HS, myr + tutor maybe not too slow to prevent the remove of ur guys.

    In pili-pala case, i dont like it too, i guess it only worky in her shell, with many counter, blue zenit and Murdlle Mixture do transmute all. But Ballista have potential in the deck even without infinit mana, as a 1 mor grwo thread/remove gun

  7. #47

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainTwiddle View Post
    Perhaps Walking Ballista gives some added merit to the Grand Architect + Pili-Pala combo? I haven't been a huge fan of that combo historically, but maybe it slots in somewhere; likely without Heartless Summoning as part of the deck.
    Nah, Heartless is actually totally fine with Ballista. You pay two less, so it gets another +1/+1 counter to offset the -1/-1 that Heartless inflicts.

    Quote Originally Posted by smtkiller View Post
    i`ll return my testes wit it.
    Oh god no please dont

  8. #48

    Re: Grand Architect

    why not, why dont teste Phyrexian Metamorph again ? hahaha

  9. #49
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    Nah, Heartless is actually totally fine with Ballista. You pay two less, so it gets another +1/+1 counter to offset the -1/-1 that Heartless inflicts.
    The problem with Heartless Summoning isn't Ballista, it's with Pili-Pala, as it just kills it.

    Since we're really brainstorming here and Master of Etherium was mentioned above, that reminds me of another route that I was looking at once upon a time and had set aside. I considered sort of a Blue Devotion build using Grand Architect and Master of Waves. The Architect pumps the elemental tokens and you can tap the elementals for mana with the Architect as well. I was playing Sharding Sphinx as well, as it's a large flying threat that lets you pump out blue artifact thopters, which have synergy with Architect as well. The top end can go to things like Blightsteel Colossus, Inkwell Leviathan, or maybe now just something like Walking Ballista. You can play Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx as well, though it's not going to be as explosive as it is in something that's a bit heavier on color.

  10. #50
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    Re: Grand Architect

    I think I found a pretty reasonable card for the versions that are running Lodestone Golem and/or Chalice of the Void; that being Architects of Will. Its cycling ability is a turn one play, something this archetype tends to be short on, and it's actually a pretty reasonable creature to cast. Setting up your next couple of draws or messing with your opponent's can be really valuable. Architects are U/B, so they get pumped by Grand Architect and can be used to generate mana as well; they're totally worth paying UB for.

    The main problems I'm having with my current builds are a general lack of early interaction. The deck is so contingent upon sticking Grand Architect and/or Heartless Summoning, that opposing discard (e.g. Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize) really hampers your development, as does cheap spot removal.

    As much as I want to jam Lodestone Golem, I'm thinking that the overall deck-building cost is just too high. The Golem really impedes your ability to play non-artifact spells, which is part of the problem with having a lack of turn one plays, as something like Serum Visions is really bad when you draw it later while a Golem is on the table. As such, I'm thinking of cutting the Golem and likely cutting Chalice of the Void as well (probably moving them to the sideboard). I think that Padeem, Consul of Innovation along with a copy or two of Lightning Greaves goes a long way toward solving the problems that Chalice was trying to solve (namely, stopping Path to Exile from blowing you out by removing a Wurmcoil Engine). If we can get off of Chalice and Golem, this opens us up to play Serum Visions and Fatal Push, possibly something like Metallic Rebuke as well. All that being said, the most powerful line I've come up with is a turn 2 Heartless Summoning into turn 3 Grand Architect + Treasure Mage into Wurmcoil Engine/Steel Hellkite. As powerful of a line as that is, some decks just aren't going to care about it.

    If we could get away from Heartless Summoning, I think it opens some more space to explore, as suddenly, you're much more able to consider large, splashy noncreature artifacts as your bombs. Something like running Etherium Sculptor into Grand Architect would allow you to cast a 5-drop artifact on turn 3, which gets me thinking about Kuldotha Forgemaster and Blightsteel Colossus.

    It seems that Grand Architect is a really difficult card to brew with, because there are so many subtly different ways you can go and a single card choice can really impact which lines are effective within the deck in question. I hope we can get there, but I fear that building an engine/combo deck around a creature that is relatively frail may ultimately prove to be to dubious.

  11. #51

    Re: Grand Architect

    A draw for 1 is nice, i know about Architects of Will but never think yout use just for cicle, in the past i try to figure him to look oponent library and stuck, can work during all game to trade a bad draw, who knows.

    This weekend, i played a simple Duress in my Drop 1 instead Serum Vision, and its work very nice in my opinion, where you have information about the hand of oponent, takeoff an counter/path (maybe like you said, take an Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize too) early, making your T2 much safe. I guess Chalice of the Void is fine in SB then MB.

    i dont know, but i cant cut Lodestone Golem, he make your oponent "play a late turn then you" if Heartless in play, T3 we can do a strong play like Lodestone Golem and Master of Etherium and a good damage with Myr superior. Lodestone Golem will be targe of remove obligatorily or we alway have a turn ahead.

    Padeem, Consul of Innovation can be nice but i dont know you, but i run Spellskite in MB, then is not good (and skite bring protection and i protect skite with transmuter chance target and tarnsmute) to kee safe. maybe Kira, Great Glass-Spinner isnt just better than Padeem ?

    as you said too "the most powerful line I've come up with is a turn 2 Heartless Summoning into turn 3 Grand Architect + Treasure Mage into Wurmcoil Engine" agree and is for that i guess Heartless is a nice advantage we have, now we must to think creatures is too good to drop 2 turn early and have instant effects to open ur options ? Something in line or better then Sphinx of Uthuun or Rune-Scarred Demon as today modern is too late for them even played 2 turns early.

    I palyed a time with Kuldotha Forgemaster in other build and i like it.

    EDIT: Right now, i find a card that can fit in some cases ... Collective Brutality can discard a second/third copy of HS to mor effect .. just toss it .. well ..

    EDIT 2: Some more maybeinteresting cards:

    Molten-Tail Masticore - can help win outside combat and help to discard a second copy of HS too
    Matter Reshaper - majority CMC of deck can be 3 less, with some Draksteel Citadel can work ?!
    Last edited by smtkiller; 03-13-2017 at 11:05 PM.

  12. #52
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    Re: Grand Architect

    This deck was on camera at GP Vegas. I think it's a much, much more streamlined Grand Architect than the direction this thread has gone in.


    I've been fiddling around with it. Right now I'm taking out Throne of the God-Pharaoh (never needed it), Signal Pest (not a blue 1-drop which is what you really want), and Master of Etherium (really not enough artifacts to make it worth it). There is a lot of redundancy in getting cheap artifacts here, with Chief Engineer, Grand Architect, and Etherium Sculptor. Any of those allow you to get a turn 3 Lodestone Golem. Smuggler's Copter excels in this type of deck as a way to pitch extra lands and get relevant cards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  13. #53
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Blue Steel does seem like the optimized Grand Architect build for the moment. It's powerful, but kind of a glass cannon. It vomits its hand into play and can lock opposing players out, but if you don't get there with your opening hand, it doesn't play the best long game. Smuggler's Copter can help a bit, it also requires you to have something left in hand to effectively loot. All that considered, this is a list I'm keeping in mind, as I'm sure it'll gain some tools in the future.

  14. #54
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Agreed with that list, though I think that is why he ran 2 Throne of the God-Pharaoh. If he pukes out guys and then taps them all to copter or to make mana for Blinkmoth, he'll at least be draining them every turn. I've been using 2x Relic of Progenitus and 2x Trinket Mage maindeck to help against the puke & done scenarios. Trinket Mage is a monster in my list, as it grabs Walking Ballista, Hangarback Walker, or Relic of Progenitus. If Grand Architect is out Trinket Mage produces 2 mana immediately so has a "net cost" of 1 mana when you want to play the Walking Ballista that turn.

    I've been looking for some swaps for Pestermite and Judge's Familiar. Right now I'm toying with either Drowned Rusalka or Martyr of Frost. Both of them are blue 1 drops, which I think is necessary to power copters early as well as help Chief Engineer/Grand Architect make mana, and they both also help against problems the deck can have. Martyr doesn't regularly have many blue cards in hand to use his ability, but there is a lot of power in keeping your opponent from playing on curve. He's another annoyance to get around when you have Lodestone Golem or Mausoleum Wanderers out, which I also like. The opponent never really knows if you can counter unless they pay the entire size of your hand.

    Glint-nest Crane might be worth looking into. I'm actually not a huge fan of Etherium Sculptor but making turn 3 Lodestones happen might be reason enough to keep him. My main problem with him is all our artifacts cost an even amount, so I almost never get to use his cheapening effect to any real advantage. Even turn 2 choosing between Copter and him is awkward. He does make Relic of Progenitus free, which is nice too, but with Grand Architect you usually have even amounts of mana when you're slamming artifacts down and all your XX spells don't care about that.

    One big improvement I've found is Master of Waves > Master of Etherium. Even without the magical christmasland turn 3 Grand Architect turn 4 Master of Waves -> Walking Ballista for 7, he has real annoyance and staying power. It's worth noting that GA pumps the tokens he makes too, so they can't just kill him and get rid of everything like in most decks. There's a lot of synergy with all the small blue creatures you play giving you high devotion, and with Chief Engineer or Grand Architect he makes stupid amounts of mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

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    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    One big improvement I've found is Master of Waves > Master of Etherium. Even without the magical christmasland turn 3 Grand Architect turn 4 Master of Waves -> Walking Ballista for 7, he has real annoyance and staying power. It's worth noting that GA pumps the tokens he makes too, so they can't just kill him and get rid of everything like in most decks. There's a lot of synergy with all the small blue creatures you play giving you high devotion, and with Chief Engineer or Grand Architect he makes stupid amounts of mana.
    I had been toying with a Blue Devotion build previously that ran Master of Waves and even had Treasure Mage to search up Sharding Sphinx and went real big with a single Blightsteel Colossus. All-in-all, that build was garbage, but there is some interesting and powerful synergy with Master of Waves. My issue with it was its interaction with Lodestone Golem. Golem made MoW hard to cast and didn't contribute devotion. They just seemed like they were pulling the deck in opposite directions. I do think Sharding Sphinx may have some potential though, as it makes blue Thopters, so they get pumped by Grand Architect and can generate mana as well, plus they get pumped by and pump Master of Etherium.

  16. #56
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    Re: Grand Architect

    I'm not a fan of Sharding Sphinx or Treasure Mage. There's a lot of strength from having all of your big win conditions able to be cast for 2 mana if need be, just to power a Thopter or take out a Dark Confidant. Having double blue mana in the casting cost is also a really big speed bump when all your guys tap for double colorless.

    Lodestone Golem does slow down Master of Waves, but generally I don't find that to be a problem since it means I have a Lodestone Golem before I have 5 mana and it's not getting killed. You're right MoW doesn't give you full power since you have colorless creatures, but even at half power it's a fast clock and 6-10 extra mana. If MoW just said "put 2 tokens into play" I think it still might be a great fit in this deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  17. #57
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Took this to a local that barely fired. Went 2-1, lost in finals to the Abzan coco combo deck.

    Match 1 beat zoo in game 3 with 2 life left, this match could have gone either way but game 1 Lodestone Golem on turn 3 was too much for him to deal with before Walking Ballistas locked him out of the game. Game 2 he killed me on turn 4 before I did much of anything. Game 3 was really close, but Vedalken Shackles from the sideboard was working wonders while Copter beat him down. I won with 2 life so it was very close.

    Match 2 vs Skred, I kept a hand that had Master of Waves and that single handedly won me the game. He had an amazing hand with fast planeswalkers and a lot of control, but MoW keeping his planeswalkers from ulting eventually bought me enough time to set up Walking Ballistas which pretty much locked him out of his game plan. Game 2 I kept a hand with 3 1 drops and a negate (2 Mausoleum Wanderer, 1 Martyr of Frost, 1 copter, 2 lands) and was able to keep him from doing anything scary the whole game.

    Match 3 vs Abzan combo he gains infinite life turn 3 by turn 1 Viscera seer, turn 2 White creature that prevents tokens, turn 3 Finks. Game 2 I basically lock him out of the game by playing a Grafdiggers cage, leaving most of his hand useless. Shackles seal the game up. Game 3 I get stuck on 2 lands with 2 Chief Engineers and a Copter for far too many turns. I looted at least 3 times and never got the 3rd land, which would have allowed Grand Architect into Walking Ballista to prevent him from being able to use any combos, but he finds it before I can play good spells. I could have probably played the ballista at x=1 but didn't.

    Edit: list was

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 6 Artifact
    4 Smuggler's Copter
    2 Relic of Progenitus

    // 32 Creature
    2 Etherium Sculptor
    4 Lodestone Golem
    4 Chief Engineer
    4 Walking Ballista
    3 Master of Waves
    4 Grand Architect
    2 Trinket Mage
    4 Mausoleum Wanderer
    1 Hangarback Walker
    4 Martyr of Frost

    // 22 Land
    4 Cavern of Souls
    2 Gemstone Caverns
    14 Island
    1 Darksteel Citadel
    1 Inventors' Fair


    // 15 Sideboard
    // 7 Artifact
    SB: 1 Aethersphere Harvester
    SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 2 Vedalken Shackles
    SB: 1 Basilisk Collar

    // 2 Creature
    SB: 1 Hangarback Walker
    SB: 1 Spellskite

    // 6 Instant
    SB: 2 Negate
    SB: 4 Ceremonious Rejection
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

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