Figured I would try to contribute to the discussion, this is the current list I am trying to work on using the combo. I wanted to find a way to get the infinite mana combo off... however it is very fragile. So I wanted to take some reliance off of the combo while still be able to possibly be able to get it off while still putting out aggro threats.
Creatures: 18
4 Grand Architect
1 Pili-Pala
4 Treasure Mage
3 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Myr Superion
3 Snapcaster Mage
Other Spells: 20
1 Aether Vial
3 Thoughtseize
3 Muddle the Mixture
3 Spell Peirce
3 Mana Leak
2 Fabricate
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Gitaxian Probe
Lands: 22
3 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Watery Graves
2 Academy Ruins
9 Islands
Basically I wanted to be able to be able to combo if I got the opportunity but be able to be a scary with my wurmcoil beatstick if needed.
Academy Ruins to bring back artifacts
Tar Pits become a 4/3 unblockable with architect
Blue Sun's Zenith as a combo wincon
Fabricate to search out the one of pili pala
Muddle the Mixture to counter spells or to transmute for architect
Has anyone considered Reshape in this deck? If we're only playing 1 Pili-Pala, it seems like a good way to search it out. It would allow us to be more controlling and then just sacrifice a control piece to combo.
L2 Judge
Sure, Fabricate costs 3, but then you have to cast Pili-Pala, which is another 2. Reshape only cost 4 to put Pili-Pala on the battlefield, and you're only casting 1 spell, as opposed to having to cast 2. Yes, you have to sacrifice an another artifact, but if you're ready to combo, why is that a problem?
L2 Judge
Because if you have your Aether Vial out you can put Pili-Pala onto the battlefield during their turn then combo. The deck isn't stable when you try to flat out combo, when using Reshape you still have to wait a turn as pili-pala as summoning sickness, so the earliest you can combo is turn five. You can cast architect turn 3, Fabricate turn 4, play pili at the end of their turn, and turn five combo the same as Reshape also without unstabilizing your board.
Last edited by JPTyson; 06-18-2014 at 05:25 PM.
Hi all. I've still been jamming my Heartless Architect deck on MTGO with mixed results. A semi-current version of my list is at the end of page 1. I'm not on the Pili-Pala combo, as it just seemed too fragile and took the deck in a direction away from abusing the general power of Grand Architect. I'm not sure if one strategy is better than the other, but I'm just not really into the combo, as I feel Modern has so many other better combos. Rather, my plan is to use Lodestone Golem to lock my opponent out of doing anything relevant in time. One card that I've added and couldn't be happier about is Cavern of Souls. The deck is mostly colorless artifact creatures, so Cavern works as just a normal land a lot of the time, but you can hold it and drop it to force through a big threat (e.g. Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite) or set it to Golem and safely drop your Lodestones, or set it to Shapeshifter and resolve Phyrexian Metamorphs (often copying Lodestone Golem) or Duplicant.
My findings with the deck so far are that Lodestone locks are the best thing the deck has going for it. In a format where everyone is trying to combo on turn 4, making most spells cost 1 more buys you at least a turn, which often finds you dropping additional Lodestones or wiping the opponent's board via a hasty Steel Hellkite (thanks to Lightning Greaves).
The deck has some serious weaknesses though. The Lodestone plan means that you're really limited to artifacts and cheap spells as sideboard options, which makes addressing certain matchups difficult. Also, because you're artifact centric, all the Ancient Grudges, Shattering Sprees, Shatterstorms, etc. are coming in to answer your base strategy as well as your sideboard answers.
As for specific matchups, Burn has been hard, as they're just faster and they always seem to have Skullcrack to turn off the lifelink of your Wurmcoils. Decks with lots of counter spells are hard too, unless you draw into multiple Caverns. Blue Tron is particularly hard, as they have counters and their mana engine is potentially as fast as yours, plus they're not really affected much by Lodestone Golem and Eye of Ugin gives them inevitability. Pod decks are kind of rough too, especially if they're running Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder, as you just don't have a great answer. Scapeshift is often lopsided as well, as the mana ramp makes Lodestone less relevant and outside of turn 3 Wurmcoil/Hellkite, the clock just isn't fast enough to race them.
What seems to remain one of the biggest fundamental issues with my list is that there isn't a whole lot of power achieved on turns 1-2. My best turn one plays are either a Serum Visions (ideally setting up turn 2 Heartless Summoning), Thoughtseize, or a single copy of Temple of Deceit (which is sort of like a 5th copy of turn 1 Serum Visions).
It sounds like Trinket Mage main might be a good idea for you. When I was playing this deck (Heartless version, no pili combo), treasure mage and trinket mage were my favorite cards. Trinket packages can help against some matchup problems, and provide added sideboard effectiveness. I usually run 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Executioner's Capsule, 1 nihil spellbomb, and 1 Darksteel Citadel. Against most matchups, chalice @ 1 is devastating. Some matchups really need 2 cmc or 3 cmc cards enough that you wouldn't mind shutting off your own cards of that cost just to spite them. Most of these can blow out specific decks (boggles vs EE, Executioners helps a ton against twin), and your sideboard can contain things that make it even more devastating, like Grafdigger's Cage and Elixer of Immortality.
Adding chalice makes 1 drops less effective. I think Thoughtseize is still worth playing but things like Serum visions less so. My reasoning for that is that thoughtseize are going to disrupt your opponent's plays early, and make room to force through counterspells, which are the times where chalice is less effective (they would have countered it probably anyway). I'd add 4 of the temples of scrying, maybe even 1 more just so EE has a chance of hitting 3 later on, as pseudo replacements of Serum Visions that don't get hit by chalice.
I run a Trinket Mage and some trinkets in the board. I've thought about Chalice of the Void, but it seems like a card that is really only worth running if you're going to play x4 or if you start it in the maindeck with Trinket Mage. I thought about boarding it against Burn/Storm, but the problem is, there's just so much artifact hate that costs 2+. Chalice does answer some problem cards though, like Path to Exile and Vaporsnag, which put the hurt on Wurmcoil.
This is definitely a deck I'll keep tweaking, but ultimately, I think it needs another piece or two. What I wouldn't give for a Sphere of Resistance reprint (not happening).
I still like 2+ trinket mage main. If you don't play the right package it probably isn't worth playing at all, and I really think you need 1 chalice while playing trinket mages. Chalice is not all or none, having the ability to grab 1 is awesome in more scenarios than you'd initially think.
Also forgot to mention Pithing Needle against tron. It's a good way to shut down ugin or karn, and while artifact hate is there, they can't hit every card you play.
How do you guys feel about Meteorite?
Etherium Sculptor and Grand Architect can power it out on Turn 3, give us some ramp and removing any threats/providing pressure.
Guys. It's happening. Grand Architect 5-8
My Current List for this Archetype (main additions linked):
4 Grand Architect
4 Treasure Mage
4 Cathedral Membrane
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Spellskite
2 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Duplicant
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Smother
2 Remand
3 Heartless Summoning
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Watery Grave
4 River of Tears
1 Academy Ruins
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Swamp
-----
I REALY want to run Cryptic Command, but I don't know if it fits anywhere.
4 Cathedral Membrane
//This 10 cent uncommon kills goyf and gives us something to play T1 before slamming down a chalice.
3 Smother
//Having access to black means we don't auto-lose to twin, smother is one of the better options for this, as it kills most everything people play in modern including Bob, goyf, delver, v-clique, deceiver exarch/pestermite, melira, the entire zoo and UR aggro decks, and opposing spellskites.
3 Thirst for Knowledge
//I don't know why none of these lists play this, it's super-good here.
2 Remand
//This deck NEEDS counterspells or it just loses to too many decks. I don't know the correct amount or nature of these yet, and they are somewhat meta dependent, but our combos are not powerful enough to allow us to be non-interactive.
3 Chalice of the Void
//Bolt, Path, and Snag hurt us so badly, it's worth running Chalice on 1 to get rid of them. It has the added bonus of hosing Storm and Hand Disruption Spells as well as making cantrips, can'trips.
The rest of the list is pretty par for the course with a few exceptions, T3 Grand Architect powering out a spellskite or a chalice is our optimal play. Since Grand dies to bolt... we have to stop them from playing it. In Heartless draws, be careful to leave up blue as often as possible to save the skite from a bolt by making it blue if you don't have chalice yet. Win with wurmcoil engines. Mindslaver is nice, a single activation can win the game, but it also can lose us the game because it doesn't block or gain us life. Flyers can hurt us, if you're having problems with them there are lots of sideboard options available including our friendly phyrexian mana friend Corrosive Gale or running Steel Hellkite. That's my take on the deck. Let me know what you think.
-ImFromNASA
New list I'm working on... Took pili pala out completely but I think I may have a really decent list.
Creatures 19
4 Grand Architect
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Blightsteel Colossus
2 Trinket Mage
4 Treasure Mage
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Myr Superion
Other Spells 13
2 Thoughtseize
2 Cryptic Command
3 Mana Leak
2 Fabricate
1 Rachet Bomb
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Muddle the Mixture
Planeswalkers 4
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Lands 24
10 Islands
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Watery Graves
3 Creeping Tar Pits
2 Misty Rainforests
1 Academy Ruins
Deck is pretty self explanatory, when it works it beats face.
@ImfromNASA: How's cathedral membrane in general? I like the idea but a lot of decks don't even play creatures that it can block, or just don't really care about it. Out of the 3 tier1 decks of Modern, it doesn't do much. Pod is the most effected as it's Kitchen Finks beats strategy is slowed down a bit, but they just come right back. They also tend to just go for the combo against decks that are slow and don't have much in the way of stopping it. Affinity rarely has creatures on the ground that you can block, and splinter twin just flies over. I can see this working against green decks, but even storm and Tron aren't really slowed by it. I would really like him in a fair deck metagame, but as the metagame in modern stands I think you're just making 4 cards that are useless.
@JPTyson: Is Myr Superion worth playing with only Grand Architect being able to cast him? It seems like more often than not you'd just have it sitting in your hand dead or draw him after removal has already taken out the architect.
With Fabricate and Muddle the mixture, kinda. I was thinking of dropping him but I honestly don't know what other dudes to put in it other than maybe a 3 of spellskite.@JPTyson: Is Myr Superion worth playing with only Grand Architect being able to cast him? It seems like more often than not you'd just have it sitting in your hand dead or draw him after removal has already taken out the architect.
Have you tried Vedalken Shackles? Even with 1-2 Islands out it's a force to be reckoned with. While it doesn't give you the brute strength of a Superion, it doubles as removal against creature combos and is even powered by Architect. I love having 2 in a similar Tezzeret deck I'm running.
I have been working on Grand Architect for a few months now and my current list is fun, explosive and can do some very powerful things. Understandable I have sacrificed pretty much all of the manipulation spells such as serum vision to run Trinisphere ( which is no where near as powerful in modern as in legacy) and with all the delver and cheap can trip decks running around my area, has been performing admirably. Here is my list:
Lands 24
Cavern of souls x2
Academy Ruins x1
islands x21
Creatures 30
Grand Architect x4
Etherium Sculptor x4
Chief Engineer x2
Treasure mage x2
Lodestone Golem x4
Kuldotha Forgemaster x4
Wurmcoil Engine x3
Sundering Titan x2
Inkwell Laviathan x1
Blightsteel colossus x1
Staff of Nin x1
Platinum Angle x1
Scuttling doom engine x1
Artifacts 4
Trinisphere x4
Spells 2
Thirst for knowledge x2
Sideboard
Thorn of Amethyst x3
Spellskite x2
Torpor orb x2
contagion Engine x1
Platinum Emperion x1
Treasure mage x2
Relic of Progenitus x2
Graftdiggers cagex1
Pithing needle x1
A few notes on the Deck and Card selection:
I am really enjoying the deck as a whole, some times the deck just has those draws that don't come together or your opponents is able to keep u from doing anything at all but those games are getting farther and farther in between the more I play with the deck. There is defiantly room to improve in the hate card selection, consistency and a more stable acceleration package.
Kuldotha Forgmaster- Very powerful tutor tool, and can make game completely unwinnable for yo0ur opponent if it gets online. Also being lighting bolt is the most run removal in modern, this guy being 5 on the back end is huge. Having the right one-of tutor targets to ether close out the game fast or lock your opponent out is very important and depends a lot on what you are expecting.
Trinisphere- the power level of this card fluctuates greatly depending on when u play it, but once its online it make your opponent life miserable. If you are in a meta with a lot of GBx decks you should probably move this side.
Summary- This being my first post on this sight I hope I was able to coherently and effectively share my list and the ideas behind it, I love brewing and want to be more active about sharing and improving rouge deck ideas. Any feed back on both the deck and on how I can improve my post is greatly appreciated!
Its too late to revive this thread ? hahaha
With a snarky comment or meaningful discussion?
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