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Thread: Grand Architect

  1. #21

    Re: Grand Architect

    Figured I would try to contribute to the discussion, this is the current list I am trying to work on using the combo. I wanted to find a way to get the infinite mana combo off... however it is very fragile. So I wanted to take some reliance off of the combo while still be able to possibly be able to get it off while still putting out aggro threats.

    Creatures: 18
    4 Grand Architect
    1 Pili-Pala
    4 Treasure Mage
    3 Wurmcoil Engine
    3 Myr Superion
    3 Snapcaster Mage

    Other Spells: 20
    1 Aether Vial
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Muddle the Mixture
    3 Spell Peirce
    3 Mana Leak
    2 Fabricate
    1 Blue Sun's Zenith
    2 Diabolic Tutor
    2 Gitaxian Probe

    Lands: 22
    3 Creeping Tar Pit
    4 Drowned Catacombs
    4 Watery Graves
    2 Academy Ruins
    9 Islands

    Basically I wanted to be able to be able to combo if I got the opportunity but be able to be a scary with my wurmcoil beatstick if needed.
    Academy Ruins to bring back artifacts
    Tar Pits become a 4/3 unblockable with architect
    Blue Sun's Zenith as a combo wincon
    Fabricate to search out the one of pili pala
    Muddle the Mixture to counter spells or to transmute for architect

  2. #22
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Has anyone considered Reshape in this deck? If we're only playing 1 Pili-Pala, it seems like a good way to search it out. It would allow us to be more controlling and then just sacrifice a control piece to combo.
    L2 Judge

  3. #23

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by astormbrewing View Post
    Has anyone considered Reshape in this deck? If we're only playing 1 Pili-Pala, it seems like a good way to search it out. It would allow us to be more controlling and then just sacrifice a control piece to combo.
    I think Fabricate works a lot better, lower mana cost and you dont have to sac one of your other peices.

  4. #24
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by JPTyson View Post
    I think Fabricate works a lot better, lower mana cost and you dont have to sac one of your other peices.
    Sure, Fabricate costs 3, but then you have to cast Pili-Pala, which is another 2. Reshape only cost 4 to put Pili-Pala on the battlefield, and you're only casting 1 spell, as opposed to having to cast 2. Yes, you have to sacrifice an another artifact, but if you're ready to combo, why is that a problem?
    L2 Judge

  5. #25

    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by astormbrewing View Post
    Sure, Fabricate costs 3, but then you have to cast Pili-Pala, which is another 2. Reshape only cost 4 to put Pili-Pala on the battlefield, and you're only casting 1 spell, as opposed to having to cast 2. Yes, you have to sacrifice an another artifact, but if you're ready to combo, why is that a problem?
    Because if you have your Aether Vial out you can put Pili-Pala onto the battlefield during their turn then combo. The deck isn't stable when you try to flat out combo, when using Reshape you still have to wait a turn as pili-pala as summoning sickness, so the earliest you can combo is turn five. You can cast architect turn 3, Fabricate turn 4, play pili at the end of their turn, and turn five combo the same as Reshape also without unstabilizing your board.
    Last edited by JPTyson; 06-18-2014 at 06:25 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Hi all. I've still been jamming my Heartless Architect deck on MTGO with mixed results. A semi-current version of my list is at the end of page 1. I'm not on the Pili-Pala combo, as it just seemed too fragile and took the deck in a direction away from abusing the general power of Grand Architect. I'm not sure if one strategy is better than the other, but I'm just not really into the combo, as I feel Modern has so many other better combos. Rather, my plan is to use Lodestone Golem to lock my opponent out of doing anything relevant in time. One card that I've added and couldn't be happier about is Cavern of Souls. The deck is mostly colorless artifact creatures, so Cavern works as just a normal land a lot of the time, but you can hold it and drop it to force through a big threat (e.g. Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite) or set it to Golem and safely drop your Lodestones, or set it to Shapeshifter and resolve Phyrexian Metamorphs (often copying Lodestone Golem) or Duplicant.

    My findings with the deck so far are that Lodestone locks are the best thing the deck has going for it. In a format where everyone is trying to combo on turn 4, making most spells cost 1 more buys you at least a turn, which often finds you dropping additional Lodestones or wiping the opponent's board via a hasty Steel Hellkite (thanks to Lightning Greaves).

    The deck has some serious weaknesses though. The Lodestone plan means that you're really limited to artifacts and cheap spells as sideboard options, which makes addressing certain matchups difficult. Also, because you're artifact centric, all the Ancient Grudges, Shattering Sprees, Shatterstorms, etc. are coming in to answer your base strategy as well as your sideboard answers.

    As for specific matchups, Burn has been hard, as they're just faster and they always seem to have Skullcrack to turn off the lifelink of your Wurmcoils. Decks with lots of counter spells are hard too, unless you draw into multiple Caverns. Blue Tron is particularly hard, as they have counters and their mana engine is potentially as fast as yours, plus they're not really affected much by Lodestone Golem and Eye of Ugin gives them inevitability. Pod decks are kind of rough too, especially if they're running Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder, as you just don't have a great answer. Scapeshift is often lopsided as well, as the mana ramp makes Lodestone less relevant and outside of turn 3 Wurmcoil/Hellkite, the clock just isn't fast enough to race them.

    What seems to remain one of the biggest fundamental issues with my list is that there isn't a whole lot of power achieved on turns 1-2. My best turn one plays are either a Serum Visions (ideally setting up turn 2 Heartless Summoning), Thoughtseize, or a single copy of Temple of Deceit (which is sort of like a 5th copy of turn 1 Serum Visions).

  7. #27
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    Re: Grand Architect

    It sounds like Trinket Mage main might be a good idea for you. When I was playing this deck (Heartless version, no pili combo), treasure mage and trinket mage were my favorite cards. Trinket packages can help against some matchup problems, and provide added sideboard effectiveness. I usually run 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Executioner's Capsule, 1 nihil spellbomb, and 1 Darksteel Citadel. Against most matchups, chalice @ 1 is devastating. Some matchups really need 2 cmc or 3 cmc cards enough that you wouldn't mind shutting off your own cards of that cost just to spite them. Most of these can blow out specific decks (boggles vs EE, Executioners helps a ton against twin), and your sideboard can contain things that make it even more devastating, like Grafdigger's Cage and Elixer of Immortality.

    Adding chalice makes 1 drops less effective. I think Thoughtseize is still worth playing but things like Serum visions less so. My reasoning for that is that thoughtseize are going to disrupt your opponent's plays early, and make room to force through counterspells, which are the times where chalice is less effective (they would have countered it probably anyway). I'd add 4 of the temples of scrying, maybe even 1 more just so EE has a chance of hitting 3 later on, as pseudo replacements of Serum Visions that don't get hit by chalice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  8. #28
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    It sounds like Trinket Mage main might be a good idea for you. When I was playing this deck (Heartless version, no pili combo), treasure mage and trinket mage were my favorite cards. Trinket packages can help against some matchup problems, and provide added sideboard effectiveness. I usually run 1 Chalice of the Void, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Executioner's Capsule, 1 nihil spellbomb, and 1 Darksteel Citadel. Against most matchups, chalice @ 1 is devastating. Some matchups really need 2 cmc or 3 cmc cards enough that you wouldn't mind shutting off your own cards of that cost just to spite them. Most of these can blow out specific decks (boggles vs EE, Executioners helps a ton against twin), and your sideboard can contain things that make it even more devastating, like Grafdigger's Cage and Elixer of Immortality.

    Adding chalice makes 1 drops less effective. I think Thoughtseize is still worth playing but things like Serum visions less so. My reasoning for that is that thoughtseize are going to disrupt your opponent's plays early, and make room to force through counterspells, which are the times where chalice is less effective (they would have countered it probably anyway). I'd add 4 of the temples of scrying, maybe even 1 more just so EE has a chance of hitting 3 later on, as pseudo replacements of Serum Visions that don't get hit by chalice.
    I run a Trinket Mage and some trinkets in the board. I've thought about Chalice of the Void, but it seems like a card that is really only worth running if you're going to play x4 or if you start it in the maindeck with Trinket Mage. I thought about boarding it against Burn/Storm, but the problem is, there's just so much artifact hate that costs 2+. Chalice does answer some problem cards though, like Path to Exile and Vaporsnag, which put the hurt on Wurmcoil.

    This is definitely a deck I'll keep tweaking, but ultimately, I think it needs another piece or two. What I wouldn't give for a Sphere of Resistance reprint (not happening).

  9. #29
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    Re: Grand Architect

    I still like 2+ trinket mage main. If you don't play the right package it probably isn't worth playing at all, and I really think you need 1 chalice while playing trinket mages. Chalice is not all or none, having the ability to grab 1 is awesome in more scenarios than you'd initially think.

    Also forgot to mention Pithing Needle against tron. It's a good way to shut down ugin or karn, and while artifact hate is there, they can't hit every card you play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  10. #30

    Re: Grand Architect

    How do you guys feel about Meteorite?



    Etherium Sculptor and Grand Architect can power it out on Turn 3, give us some ramp and removing any threats/providing pressure.

  11. #31

    Re: Grand Architect

    Guys. It's happening. Grand Architect 5-8


  12. #32

    Re: Grand Architect

    My Current List for this Archetype (main additions linked):

    4 Grand Architect
    4 Treasure Mage
    4 Cathedral Membrane
    2 Phyrexian Metamorph
    2 Spellskite
    2 Solemn Simulacrum
    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Duplicant

    3 Thirst for Knowledge
    3 Smother
    2 Remand

    3 Heartless Summoning
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Engineered Explosives

    4 Island
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Watery Grave
    4 River of Tears
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Phyrexia's Core
    1 Swamp

    -----

    I REALY want to run Cryptic Command, but I don't know if it fits anywhere.

    4 Cathedral Membrane

    //This 10 cent uncommon kills goyf and gives us something to play T1 before slamming down a chalice.

    3 Smother

    //Having access to black means we don't auto-lose to twin, smother is one of the better options for this, as it kills most everything people play in modern including Bob, goyf, delver, v-clique, deceiver exarch/pestermite, melira, the entire zoo and UR aggro decks, and opposing spellskites.

    3 Thirst for Knowledge

    //I don't know why none of these lists play this, it's super-good here.

    2 Remand

    //This deck NEEDS counterspells or it just loses to too many decks. I don't know the correct amount or nature of these yet, and they are somewhat meta dependent, but our combos are not powerful enough to allow us to be non-interactive.

    3 Chalice of the Void

    //Bolt, Path, and Snag hurt us so badly, it's worth running Chalice on 1 to get rid of them. It has the added bonus of hosing Storm and Hand Disruption Spells as well as making cantrips, can'trips.

    The rest of the list is pretty par for the course with a few exceptions, T3 Grand Architect powering out a spellskite or a chalice is our optimal play. Since Grand dies to bolt... we have to stop them from playing it. In Heartless draws, be careful to leave up blue as often as possible to save the skite from a bolt by making it blue if you don't have chalice yet. Win with wurmcoil engines. Mindslaver is nice, a single activation can win the game, but it also can lose us the game because it doesn't block or gain us life. Flyers can hurt us, if you're having problems with them there are lots of sideboard options available including our friendly phyrexian mana friend Corrosive Gale or running Steel Hellkite. That's my take on the deck. Let me know what you think.

    -ImFromNASA

  13. #33

    Re: Grand Architect

    New list I'm working on... Took pili pala out completely but I think I may have a really decent list.

    Creatures 19
    4 Grand Architect
    2 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Blightsteel Colossus
    2 Trinket Mage
    4 Treasure Mage
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    3 Myr Superion

    Other Spells 13
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Cryptic Command
    3 Mana Leak
    2 Fabricate
    1 Rachet Bomb
    1 Chalice of the Void
    2 Muddle the Mixture

    Planeswalkers 4
    2 Tezzeret the Seeker
    2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

    Lands 24
    10 Islands
    4 Drowned Catacombs
    4 Watery Graves
    3 Creeping Tar Pits
    2 Misty Rainforests
    1 Academy Ruins

    Deck is pretty self explanatory, when it works it beats face.

  14. #34
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    Re: Grand Architect

    @ImfromNASA: How's cathedral membrane in general? I like the idea but a lot of decks don't even play creatures that it can block, or just don't really care about it. Out of the 3 tier1 decks of Modern, it doesn't do much. Pod is the most effected as it's Kitchen Finks beats strategy is slowed down a bit, but they just come right back. They also tend to just go for the combo against decks that are slow and don't have much in the way of stopping it. Affinity rarely has creatures on the ground that you can block, and splinter twin just flies over. I can see this working against green decks, but even storm and Tron aren't really slowed by it. I would really like him in a fair deck metagame, but as the metagame in modern stands I think you're just making 4 cards that are useless.

    @JPTyson: Is Myr Superion worth playing with only Grand Architect being able to cast him? It seems like more often than not you'd just have it sitting in your hand dead or draw him after removal has already taken out the architect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  15. #35

    Re: Grand Architect

    @JPTyson: Is Myr Superion worth playing with only Grand Architect being able to cast him? It seems like more often than not you'd just have it sitting in your hand dead or draw him after removal has already taken out the architect.
    With Fabricate and Muddle the mixture, kinda. I was thinking of dropping him but I honestly don't know what other dudes to put in it other than maybe a 3 of spellskite.

  16. #36
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    Re: Grand Architect

    Have you tried Vedalken Shackles? Even with 1-2 Islands out it's a force to be reckoned with. While it doesn't give you the brute strength of a Superion, it doubles as removal against creature combos and is even powered by Architect. I love having 2 in a similar Tezzeret deck I'm running.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

  17. #37

    Re: Grand Architect

    I have been working on Grand Architect for a few months now and my current list is fun, explosive and can do some very powerful things. Understandable I have sacrificed pretty much all of the manipulation spells such as serum vision to run Trinisphere ( which is no where near as powerful in modern as in legacy) and with all the delver and cheap can trip decks running around my area, has been performing admirably. Here is my list:

    Lands 24
    Cavern of souls x2
    Academy Ruins x1
    islands x21

    Creatures 30
    Grand Architect x4
    Etherium Sculptor x4
    Chief Engineer x2
    Treasure mage x2
    Lodestone Golem x4
    Kuldotha Forgemaster x4
    Wurmcoil Engine x3
    Sundering Titan x2
    Inkwell Laviathan x1
    Blightsteel colossus x1
    Staff of Nin x1
    Platinum Angle x1
    Scuttling doom engine x1

    Artifacts 4
    Trinisphere x4

    Spells 2
    Thirst for knowledge x2

    Sideboard
    Thorn of Amethyst x3
    Spellskite x2
    Torpor orb x2
    contagion Engine x1
    Platinum Emperion x1
    Treasure mage x2
    Relic of Progenitus x2
    Graftdiggers cagex1
    Pithing needle x1

    A few notes on the Deck and Card selection:

    I am really enjoying the deck as a whole, some times the deck just has those draws that don't come together or your opponents is able to keep u from doing anything at all but those games are getting farther and farther in between the more I play with the deck. There is defiantly room to improve in the hate card selection, consistency and a more stable acceleration package.

    Kuldotha Forgmaster- Very powerful tutor tool, and can make game completely unwinnable for yo0ur opponent if it gets online. Also being lighting bolt is the most run removal in modern, this guy being 5 on the back end is huge. Having the right one-of tutor targets to ether close out the game fast or lock your opponent out is very important and depends a lot on what you are expecting.

    Trinisphere- the power level of this card fluctuates greatly depending on when u play it, but once its online it make your opponent life miserable. If you are in a meta with a lot of GBx decks you should probably move this side.

    Summary- This being my first post on this sight I hope I was able to coherently and effectively share my list and the ideas behind it, I love brewing and want to be more active about sharing and improving rouge deck ideas. Any feed back on both the deck and on how I can improve my post is greatly appreciated!

  18. #38
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    Re: Grand Architect

    When's the earliest you can play Trinisphere? Would have it mattered against other decks if you got it that early?
    I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    13NoVa plays Force of Will from his hand.
    Finglonger plays Spell Pierce from his hand.
    [10:22:43]  13NoVa: lol
    sure
    Finglonger points from his Dack Fayden to 13NoVa's Sol Ring.
    [10:23:04]  13NoVa: lol dumb ******; nice draws with retard.dec
    stupid cocksucker
    You have been kicked out of the game.

  19. #39

    Re: Grand Architect

    Its too late to revive this thread ? hahaha

  20. #40
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    Re: Grand Architect

    With a snarky comment or meaningful discussion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick "Tasteless" Plott
    It's a trend on the internet, the internet has just become more and more of an unpleasant place. It's become more and more of bitching on forums, and I'm from that really early internet generation where it's just small communities giving each other advice and reasonable dialogue, and it's kind of just devolved into this ugly, ugly thing. I mean, it's too bad you can't be paid to be, you know, a chicken shit fuckin' whiny bitch on the internet or we'd have a lot of rich community members

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