Nope. Been playing DnT and Merfolk. Neither plays Brainstorm, so I'd still not care. But I know people who would.
Originally Posted by Jack Burton
Maybe people will just keep drawing 4 off of Brainstorm and quick hands, or only putting 1 back, and the DCI will banhammer it because no one can be trusted to just RTFC and stick to the fucking rules of the game.
I don't want Brainstorm banned, I just think that would be hi-larious. DCI announcement be all:
I wouldn't quit. I don't play Brainstorm decks, but I am happy to have Brainstorm in the format
I would be upset, but I wouldn't quit.
If you ban brainstorm you might aswell kill the format all together, look at vintage after brainstorm being restricted, now no one plays. I would certainly quit. I quit Vintage when they restricted Brainstorm and Ponder and moved to legacy
Id just fix the cardname to Ancestral Brainstorm at this point.
No. But I would be sad panda.
Hello,
If they ban the Brainstorm and with Brainstorm I mean all forms of good cantrips, because if they do not antother would take over the spot imidiatley, I will quit playing Legacy.
The Reason is simple Cntrips increase consictency and each control deck needs it to become playable, since I play only control and mostley blue becasue its my favorite
Color and strategy approach I can say that Cantrips are essential for this decks.
This means if Cantrips are banned Combo and Aggro Decks will become stronger and the Format will become less interative and more boring because no one will play Control
without libary manipulation and engough cnsotency to make shure they get their answers for your plan.
So the rsulting Format will be dominated by combo because it is faster and this means you can just throw a dice and quit the game.
In such a format I don´t want to play.
Best regards Teveshszat
I'd honestly be tempted to quit the game entirely, sell my collection, and put a down payment on a house because it would show that WotC has finally allowed the same crowd who cried foul about everything good in Modern to ruin Legacy as well. If you want to ban the card that makes you sad, go after TNN, or you can be an adult about it and learn to play around things. Chances are that bad decks will still be bad in a format without brainstorm.
Further to the point of people cheating... What competent player doesn't watch their opponent intently during an opposing Brainstorm? I don't care about sleight of hand and obfuscation-- you can learn a lot about what's going on just based upon they way that they choose which cards to return. The same horrible logic applies to their drawstep once every turn. Should we ban drawsteps for fear of unscrupulous players drawing additional cards? Simply put if you don't have an exact count of every card in your opponent's hand at any given point in the game, you're giving up advantage and opening yourself up to exploitation.
I'd have to for a short while seeing as the only deck I own is UW Control, and without Brainstorm it gets significantly worse. I'd probably end up playing Ponder and Preordane, or switching to a Delver variant with similar.
The conspiracy goes deeper than you might think.Can I pay you for not posting in this thread?
Those kinds of answers are amazing. You read those basically every time:
- stop whining about the format being dominated by a strategy and adapt:
adapt by playing another blue deck? Yes please. Miracles vs Delver all days every days. Amazing. I guess you called for people "adapting" when we had tinker+mirrodin extended era, necro winter and combo summer, or god spare me, the fucking Lin Sivvi Standard of holy shit that's boring.
- without brainstorm every cantrip has to be banned:
This is another amazing example of logical fallacy. Why you'd even think that. The main problem with brainstorm is that it draw 3 in combination with many cards, dodge discard and is an instant. The 2 next best cantrips can't dodge discard, can't draw 3 in any circumstance, and aren't instant. They're league apart. This is like saying that since Ancestral is banned every blue cantrip has to. It's a non-sequitur reasoning that has no basis in reality.
- bad decks will still be bad in a format without brainstorm:
this is amazing. Or maybe it didn't dawn to you that there are many T1.5 deck that could be T1 if brainstorm isn't there? This is like stating that poors will be forever poors even if give free educations to all. The status quo is child of the current situation, if that were to change, the status quo would too. I can tell you, right now, right here, that DnT is a T1 deck that was killed by TNN and would become T1 again if blue were nerfed (banning fucking TNN).
- without brainstorm, we're playing modern or any other iteration of the famous: go play modern and stfu
Why, i'd like very much to continue playing with my wastes, duals, and FoW, to spin my tops for perfect topdecks in every color, as well as using my sylvan library, and powering out hymns at people. I'd also still like very much to see storm, and elves! with cradle, or SnT, or DnT, or Reanimator, hell i've even grown somewhat affectionate to Delver decks. Not a single one of those archetypes are possible in modern, and never will be. Legacy would continue to be an incredibly unique and powered format, even without Brainstorm compared to modern. The two aren't even comparable. Miracle would still have 4 SDT to set up their miracles, as well as probably ponder, Jace and whatsnot.
Not in the post i've answered to, but still relevant and often found:
- BS is a pillar of legacy
This is purely a subjective argument. I liked very much playing with MM, and i've advocated with all of myself against its ban, but it got banned. I accepted the fact, and played on. I still believe that in the end MM would've been a positive influence on the format, but its presence was considered too pervasive by WotC and it made too many top decks blue. Now the blue dominance is greater than in MM era, and BS penetrance in T8 is higher than MM ever was. And not for 1 month, but i believe it's the third month straight now (more like 2 since we had no tournaments during the festivities).
But apparently you can't even debate for its ban because it's suddendly a pilar. You know what was also a pillar of Legacy? Survival. It got axed, even if it was considered a core card for the format for many years. You know this is just shifting the objective from objective facts to subjective one, basically you argue out of faith that BS shouldn't be banned. Scientific reasoning be damned.
- banning BS would empower blazing fast combo
Hint: the reason blazing fast "suicide" combo is not good is not because you can brainstorm a FoW on T1. It's because it lose to itself so many times, and lose to too many random things like a T2 thalia or a T1 waste or Daze. Also, technically, you can Ponder on T1 and still dig 3 cards deep like BS, finding that FoW if you were to fear that T2 win from a suicide combo deck. In case they'd won on T1, BS wouldn't have helped anyway, and it's certainly not the reasons those decks aren't good, because they are just inconsistent as shit. The good combo decks are more consistent and here we get to the next point
- BS would weaken control
And again no. The biggest hit of an eventual BS would be 2-cards based combo decks, or, more specifically, SnT and Reanimator. Control would still have top for absurd card selection all game long, and wouldn't lose as much by being more vulnerable to discard. Discard more efficient, would also AGAIN, weaken non-redundant combo even more, meaning the best combo decks would be decks like Elves!, Enchantress, and Storm that would still be good enough since it's not as weak against discard as Rean and SnT. In terms of how much archetypes lose power, it goes like this: (most)Combo->Tempo->Control/Midrange->Aggro. The end results of this is obviously not predictable, but control wouldn't be the biggest loser of it at all for sure. 18 lands + 4 BS would be the decks hit the more by it.
- i like playing with BS
This, in the end, is the only reasonable argument i can see. Because:
- the card is at the highest penetration ever seen, and, differently from lands, it doesn't enable diverse strategies, but basically lock the format on one color, by making fragile combo better and by making tempo better. This means... da ba dee
- being a pillar of a format doesn't mean shit when the format was created specifically to avoid the issues that Vintage had, aka excessive dependance on certain cards
- being skilltesting is non-true unless you consider sleight of hand being skilltesting since you can cheat more with it compared to ponder and preordain. Portent, Preordain and Ponder have all a much more complex skilltree of decision behind it, with the first being : do i actually use my mana since my spell is a sorcery? BS is ridicously easy in comparison since you BS end of turn, put back 2 useless cards, shuffle deck: you just casted ancestral recall, well played my skill intensive padawan!
- reducing variant is also false because SDT reduce variance much more. The problem here is purely of power level. Ponder can actually see you 4 cards deep in your deck, meaning it's actually MORE variance-reducing if you really want a single card. But here the problem is the card is essentially an ancestral, a card which is clearly overpowered in concern to otehr cards in the format
It also help that all the time i post in this thread, i write endless walls of text, and the most of the post i read are snarky one-liners with 0 context and attack based on NOTHING. Those always reassure me of the fact that i'm not in the wrong.
I've probably put more effort into tracking the data of the format and of color balance and card play than anyone else over the years, and have repeatedly made essay-length responses to peoples' objections.
The number of knee-jerk ad hominem attacks that, unlike what I do, are actually ad hominem, trying to say that people should ignore me because I'm supposedly just trolling, is depressing and forces me to recognize that people who know that they are wrong but don't want to admit it are incapable of acting in good faith.
So I'm just not going to bother anymore.
By every criteria Wizards has ever set forth, Brainstorm deserves to be banned. It is dominant and ubiquitous, it exerts enormous swinging power over games, it empowers degenerate combo decks in particular.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I've never thought of this particular argument before, but it's an interesting thought.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I think the problem goes way deeper than just Brainstorm being a powerful card. It's Wizards new design philosophy.
Traditionally, blue had the best disruption suite (FoW + Daze) and the best card filtering (Brainstorm, Ponder, etc). But since Wizards recently started to shit out the best creatures in blue as well (Delver, TNN, Griselbrand if you want to count him as blue creature due to S&T), the balance is completely gone and we gone from 50% BS meta to about 70% BS meta. And since I doubt that Wizard is going to stop printing ridiculous creatures, it all just goes downhill from here if things are left unchecked since blue is now unrivaled in pretty much every aspect of the game as far as Legacy is concerned.
There needs to a paradigm shift that non-combo creatures aren't untouchable anymore. TNN needs to go since it's the course for this mess in the first place. Other stuff has to follow in the future, if necessary.
Vintage died because nobody plays it. It has no tournament support and the must-have staples are so limited that the prices for them are outrageous.
Legacy will go that route, too, once prices get higher and higher while SCG drops Legacy from their Opens.
That's a flawed argument since BS is unique in what it does. There's no need to ban Ponder and the likes since they can't lead to blue dominance like Brainstorm does.
I'd love to play Modern once they give me:
- Wasteland
- Rishadan Port
- Karakas
- Mother of Runes
- Stoneforge Mystic
- StP
I can live without Jitte, though.
Oh come on! Really, the Jund argument again?
In a format where one can easily get killed turn 1-2, Jund should NEVER be viable.
The fact that Jund was viable in the first place shows us the following:
People are idiots and too stupid to play proper combo to crush that rediculous deck.
So you would like Brainstorm to be banned? So you would rather have the winner of a massive Legacy tournament be the one who topdecks Bloodbraid Elf into Liliana best, than to have the best player win it? Awesome...
Heck no. Brainstorm is what makes the format interesting.
Brainstorm is one of the greatest spells to play, ever. A format without Brainstorm is just like a glorified Standard creature-fest.
Eh. Like I have said multiple times, I don't actually care whether or not they do ban brainstorm. But the numbers and everything points towards it being banned. Yes it is powerful, yes it is pretty fun to cast, but so is survival and that got the axe. Sure survival enabled being attacked on T2 by a couple of 4/3's every once in awhile (as if we dont just get derped by emrakul half the time now anyway), but it didn't seem that broken imo. BS is more played than that was and people enjoy it.
To anyone saying they would quit because their decks would be invalidated, please shut the fuck up and be creative. Your stupid Shardless BUG deck or whatever isn't dead just because of BS being banned. Regardless of what Gerry T or Todd Anderson say. Instead of bitching and whining about a very powerful card being banned that really isn't even a build around card, you could try other options. Banning SNT would kill SnT decks. Banning Survival killed Survival decks. Banning brainstorm would not kill off any deck.
None of that is really Brainstorm's fault, though. You know what card came out three months ago? Oh yeah, True-Name Nemesis. TNN pushed out most of the T1 nonblue decks like Jund and Death and Taxes from contention and the best decks against TNN decks are either combo decks that disregard it (which almost always runs blue by nature), and Tundra control decks with sweepers (blue).
TNN is what's causing the overabundance of blue decks, all of which just happen to run Brainstorm. People just don't look deep enough, see all the Brainstorms being played in the top 8s, and assume that Brainstorm is the issue. I'll say it again, Legacy was fine, balance-wise and Brainstorm-saturation-wise, before the printing of True-Name Nemesis.
True-Name Nemesis is the problem.
I wouldnt be opposed to TNN being banned. I fucking hate the card. Not really OP imo, just leads to extremely uninteractive games
For just one second I forgot Brainstorm triple top decked for one mana.
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