Would you like to see Survival back in the format?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Are people serious when they complain about things like LED + Survival, is it for realz realz.

[nedleeds]

... to be fair to those who fear SurvivalMadness.dec there are EIGHT arrogant wurms now ... far more intimidating then getting turn 3 trample hoofed for a billion, or a turn 3 lifelink flying bargain ...

[Barook]

... to be fair to those who fear SurvivalMadness.dec there are EIGHT arrogant wurms now ... far more intimidating then getting turn 3 trample hoofed for a billion, or a turn 3 lifelink flying bargain ...

Or watching Black Lotus into Demonic Tutor into Ad Nauseam for the win on T2.

[nedleeds]

GTFOOH. That sounds way more fair than a few basic forests, a 1G enchantment and a 1GG enchantment making squirrels.

[force_of_phil]

Bringing back SotF, Frantic Search, and Black Vise could shake things up a little, and I think in a good way. It may be that they all end up like Land Tax, but I'd like to see SOMETHING change. The "(cantrip+fetches+FoW) + (blade/tempo/combo package) = legacy deck" formula has gotten pretty boring. I'd also mention Goblin Recruiter. Yeah, that discussion tends to get shut down quickly, but someone has to bring it up again for the sake of the poor goblins players :( My thoughts are with you during your time of mourning.

[Barook]

Bringing back SotF, Frantic Search, and Black Vise could shake things up a little, and I think in a good way. It may be that they all end up like Land Tax, but I'd like to see SOMETHING change. The "(cantrip+fetches+FoW) + (blade/tempo/combo package) = legacy deck" formula has gotten pretty boring. I'd also mention Goblin Recruiter. Yeah, that discussion tends to get shut down quickly, but someone has to bring it up again for the sake of the poor goblins players :( My thoughts are with you during your time of mourning.

Goblin Recruiter isn't just banned for power, but also for logistic reasons.

[force_of_phil]

Goblin Recruiter isn't just banned for power, but also for logistic reasons.

True, it's probably not a good card to have around even if it's not busted. I guess gobs is stuck praying for new printings.

[nedleeds]

Vise might have some 'feel bads' but not any worse than just getting Guide/Guide/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Fireblasted. So Vise/Vise/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Fireblast. The Vise is such a miserably horrid top deck it's going to have to be at the cost of something in WalMart Burn.

Having Vise also might create a non-Chalice prison strategy. Which. I think is awesome. Because. Stasis. Or. Tangle Wire. Or. Copy my Tangle Wire with Metamorph. Sculpting Steel. Are we having fun yet?

[MaximumC]

Vise might have some 'feel bads' but not any worse than just getting Guide/Guide/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Fireblasted. So Vise/Vise/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Bolt/Fireblast. The Vise is such a miserably horrid top deck it's going to have to be at the cost of something in WalMart Burn.

Having Vise also might create a non-Chalice prison strategy. Which. I think is awesome. Because. Stasis. Or. Tangle Wire. Or. Copy my Tangle Wire with Metamorph. Sculpting Steel. Are we having fun yet?

You're underestimating Black Vise. The only problem with it is that it is a bad topdeck, as you pointed out. On turn 1 it's going to deal between 3 and 7 damage to the opponent usually, all for one colorless mana.

It might as well be this:

Black Vise
Sorcery, 1
Deal 3 damage to target player, then flip a coin. If the coin lands in your favor, deal another 4 damage to that player. Cast this spell only during your first and second turns of the game.

Do you really want blue aggro decks like Delver to get a colorless superbolt like that? What happens when they go t1 Delver (threatening Daze) turn 2 flip delver and drop two Vises, swing 3, deal 6 during your upkeep, OOPS you're dead in a turn? These are the very same decks with enough topdeck manipulation to avoid the card late game?

No, no, you do not.

[[SLAYER]chaos]

Delver decks with Arcane Denial!

[btm10]

You're underestimating Black Vise. The only problem with it is that it is a bad topdeck, as you pointed out. On turn 1 it's going to deal between 3 and 7 damage to the opponent usually, all for one colorless mana.

It might as well be this:

Black Vise
Sorcery, 1
Deal 3 damage to target player, then flip a coin. If the coin lands in your favor, deal another 4 damage to that player. Cast this spell only during your first and second turns of the game.

Do you really want blue aggro decks like Delver to get a colorless superbolt like that? What happens when they go t1 Delver (threatening Daze) turn 2 flip delver and drop two Vises, swing 3, deal 6 during your upkeep, OOPS you're dead in a turn? These are the very same decks with enough topdeck manipulation to avoid the card late game?

No, no, you do not.

No mainstream Delver variant would run that card. It doesn't fill the removal role of Bolt, StP, or Abrupt Decay, and the rest of the deck is so stacked with more reliable threats and non-negotiable draw/counter packages that there wouldn't be room for Vise.

Having Vise also might create a non-Chalice prison strategy. Which. I think is awesome. Because. Stasis. Or. Tangle Wire. Or. Copy my Tangle Wire with Metamorph. Sculpting Steel. Are we having fun yet?

I would play Vise alongside Chalice all day. You drop Vise turn 1, and your Chalice @ 1 on turn 2 remains live against their Ponders and Brainstorms and leaves them in their hand. Vise also makes Daze worse because it's cards-in-hand neutral when played for its alternate cost. And you have the option of openings like Ancient Tomb, Grim Monolith, Vise, Chalice @ 1. The aggro-MUD deck basically builds itself.

[Gheizen64]

You're underestimating Black Vise. The only problem with it is that it is a bad topdeck, as you pointed out. On turn 1 it's going to deal between 3 and 7 damage to the opponent usually, all for one colorless mana.

It might as well be this:

Black Vise
Sorcery, 1
Deal 3 damage to target player, then flip a coin. If the coin lands in your favor, deal another 4 damage to that player. Cast this spell only during your first and second turns of the game.

Do you really want blue aggro decks like Delver to get a colorless superbolt like that? What happens when they go t1 Delver (threatening Daze) turn 2 flip delver and drop two Vises, swing 3, deal 6 during your upkeep, OOPS you're dead in a turn? These are the very same decks with enough topdeck manipulation to avoid the card late game?

No, no, you do not.

This card would fuckign sucks. I'd rather rune lava spike.

[joemauer]

I would be happy just to have Earthcraft in Legacy.

[Megadeus]

I just want basic forest to be the best basic land in legacy

[Rizso]

Survival has one problem of coming back in that necrotic ooze and loyal Retainer makes for one resilent grisselbrand deck that can both instant combo kill or play a grind match.

Stupid Grisselbrand ruin all the fun :/

[BVB09]

Definately yes, such a fun card and Survival was a very interesting, iconic and diferent deck
I always expect an unban :(

[Barook]

Survival has one problem of coming back in that necrotic ooze and loyal Retainer makes for one resilent grisselbrand deck that can both instant combo kill or play a grind match.

Stupid Grisselbrand ruin all the fun :/

How is that better than S&T into Griselbrand?

Sure, Survival is a theoretical 1-card combo, but you'd have to spend loads of mana while being vulnerable to GY hate.

A T3 Griselbrand via Loyal Retainers is the best you can hope for, assuming you had a T1 mana dork (but then it isn't exactly a 1-card combo anymore).

[Hof]

Goblin Recruiter isn't just banned for power, but also for logistic reasons.

This is a myth.

Goblin Recruiter is banned in Legacy simply because it was banned in Extended when the first Legacy banned list was made.

The reason for Goblin Recruiters ban in Extended was that is was deemed too fast.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...om/feature/189

[DragoFireheart]

WotC really does not like tutors.

[Erdvermampfa]

To be honest I voted for 'No' as I think it would only get used to enable another range of noninteractive combo which we all find so miserable to play against. It isn't necessarily my idea of fun where matches depend entirely on whether you find your hate or not. This isn't the old days where Survival fetches Genesis and Squee for long-term advantage and Survival should be considered purely as a combo enabler such as Show and Tell nowadays.