Chalice of the Void - Who is responsible?

[spider900]

Let's assume my opponent controls a Chalice of the Void with 1 counter on it, and I play a CC1 spell. My opponent forgets about his Chalice and doesn't point out to me that my spell gets countered. So my question is: Is my opponent responsible for checking the CC of my spells and whether they are countered or not because it's his Chalice? Or are we both responsible for checking? What would happen if my opponent recognizes it a few turns later and calls a Judge?

[Tempus]

Your opponent controls Chalice, so it's his trigger. If he misses it, your spell resolves. If a judge is called at any point later than 1 turn cycle, nothing happens.

[spider900]

So I can legally cast my CC1 spell and let it resolve (when my opp misses the trigger) although I'm aware of Chalice without fearing any penalties?

[Dice_Box]

Yes. Your under no obligation to point out the trigger and they can miss it. The reverse is not true, they can not miss their own trigger. If they cast a 1 CMC card, it gets counted regardless.

[Julian23]

Yes. Your under no obligation to point out the trigger and they can miss it. The reverse is not true, they can not miss their own trigger. If they cast a 1 CMC card, it gets counted regardless.

That's not true. If it's an honest mistake and both players don't see it, the trigger will be missed.

If they however "miss" the trigger on purpose, the result will be a DQ.

[spider900]

If they however "miss" the trigger on purpose, the result will be a DQ.

This is what I was expecting.

[nedleeds]

That's not true. If it's an honest mistake and both players don't see it, the trigger will be missed.

and the triggers controller should get a GRV ...

If they however "miss" the trigger on purpose, the result will be a DQ.

[Esper3k]

Note that it also depends on the REL you're playing at. At Competitive+, you can test your opponent like that, but at Regular you're responsible for their mandatory triggers too, iirc.

[Tammit67]

Note that it also depends on the REL you're playing at. At Competitive+, you can test your opponent like that, but at Regular you're responsible for their mandatory triggers too, iirc.

That isn't accurate. You are never responsible for your opponent's triggers.

A player forgets a triggered ability (one that uses the words “when,” “whenever,” or “at” usually at the start of the ability's text).

These abilities are considered missed if the player did not acknowledge them in any way at the point that it required choices or had a visible in-game effect. If the ability includes the word “may,” assume the player chose not to perform it. Otherwise, add it to the stack now unless it happened so long ago that you think it would be very disruptive to the game - don’t add the ability to the stack if significant decisions having been made based on the effect not happening! Unlike other game rule errors (which must be pointed out), players are never required to point out their opponent’s missed triggered abilities, although they may do so.

The rest of the document can be found here.

[spider900]

Unlike other game rule errors (which must be pointed out), players are never required to point out their opponent’s missed triggered abilities, although they may do so.

So that actually means I can cast a CC1 spell and wait for my opponent to annouce Chalice's trigger. If he doesn't, I'm fine although I'm completely aware of what I'm doing?

[Tammit67]

So that actually means I can cast a CC1 spell and wait for my opponent to announce Chalice's trigger. If he doesn't, I'm fine although I'm completely aware of what I'm doing?

Note that the section you quoted was from a Regular REL document.

But yes, you are not responsible for your opponent's triggers in any case. Chalice does not prevent you from casting those spells and the onus is on your opponent to remember the trigger.

In general, the controller of the source of the trigger is responsible for it. Cards like The tabernacle at Pendrell vale, whom grant creatures a trigger, are a little more confusing since they do not generate the trigger, but rather give an ability to the creature who gives the trigger. My grizzly bears has a tabernacle trigger for which I am responsible while in your example your opponent here has a chalice trigger for which he/she is responsible.

Does that clarify?

[PirateKing]

I thought I just saw some game video where a player got to keep his creature because he drew, then his opponent reminded him that his (the opponent's) Tabernacle killed it. Judge came over and they ruled that the Tabernacle player didn't remind him in time so it was missed and the player got to skip paying. I felt this was the wrong call, and what you've written, should not have been the case. Can you confirm?

[Malchar]

I thought I just saw some game video where a player got to keep his creature because he drew, then his opponent reminded him that his (the opponent's) Tabernacle killed it. Judge came over and they ruled that the Tabernacle player didn't remind him in time so it was missed and the player got to skip paying. I felt this was the wrong call, and what you've written, should not have been the case. Can you confirm?

The rules have changed over the last few years. If it was an older video, it could have been correct at the time it was filmed.

[PirateKing]

The rules have changed over the last few years. If it was an older video, it could have been correct at the time it was filmed.

I feel like it was immediately after that successful Loam Pox list came out, someone had a netdeck of it but wasn't as familiar with the interactions. Was under the current rules regulations.

[Tempus]

If the error is caught within a turn cycle the creature will be sacrificed.

As Tammit67 wrote Tabernacle grants an ability to creatures, so the creatures controller is responsible for it.

[Esper3k]

That isn't accurate. You are never responsible for your opponent's triggers.



The rest of the document can be found here.

Neat and thanks for the correction! Never been so glad to be wrong :)

[Tammit67]

Neat and thanks for the correction! Never been so glad to be wrong :)

It was a relatively recent change too. Even when competitively you didn't have to remind your opponent, there was still a time you had to at Regular.

[Esper3k]

It was a relatively recent change too. Even when competitively you didn't have to remind your opponent, there was still a time you had to at Regular.

Yeah that was the one I was remembering.

[Julian23]

Tempus has already touched on what I feel is too important to not clearly re-state it:

Tabernacle is special in the way that it grants a triggered ability to each creature. Tabernacle itself has no triggered abilities.
This is ther reason why a player with Tabernacle in play can not forget his opponent's creatures "pay 1" trigger as he doesn't control the trigger int he first place. Instead his opponent has to remember the trigger(s) for all of his creatures.

Also because people often get this wrong and actually got it wrong once more in this thread: Tabernacle doesn't make you sacrifice creatures. They are destroyed. No need to pay for your Marit Lage token for example.

[H]

Also because people often get this wrong and actually got it wrong once more in this thread: Tabernacle doesn't make you sacrifice creatures. They are destroyed. No need to pay for your Marit Lage token for example.

In some people's defense, they changed the oracle text of Tabernacle to say sacrifice then changed it back to destroy. In fact, if you tag it here The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and follow that to DeckBox.org, they have the wrong Oracle text listed.