@bac5665
A big part is that RUG is a lot harder to play than it might look and it is extremely unforgiving to mistakes. Also Deathrite Shaman is a thing against us.
I do think the virtual card advantage of Nimble Mongoose is extremely under appreciated. From a virtual card advantage perspective, Mongoose is basically a green Treasure Cruise, except threshold is better than delve (you can have two threshed Mongeese with same 7 cards in your graveyard instead needing 14 cards to delve twice), Mongoose attacks for 1 before Threshold, and Treasure Cruise will require additional mana to play whatever you draw from the card. The downside being you don't actually get to draw three cards.
RUG is placing reasonably well @ SCG events and on MODO, but there are a multiplicity of Delver decks these days, RUG isn't likely to corner the market on tempo like it use to.
Back on DTB? All is well in the world. (:
Hi, playing one maindeck has been going well for me, but I would not run 2 maindeck. I remember running 1 maindeck and 1 in the sideboard against decks that tended to abuse activated abilities (DRS, SneakShow, DnT, sometimes Elves). Running 2 would reduce my spell count for Delver from 29 to 28 while reducing pitchable cards to FoW. I think 0-1 is the correct number of Needles. Ran it when the meta was full of Elves and Deathrites. In the worst case, I've played it as stifle number 4, blindly naming their fetchlands (calculated risk) when I know we don't share the same fetch (better when your fetches are 4 wooded, 1 delta, 1 floodeed, 1 tarn, 1 misty).Originally Posted by sea
I think part of the reason why the deck is underplayed at the moment is the difficulty in piloting such a tight deck. We don't really have powerful plays. What we have are incremental cards that slightly restricts the opponent's game plan and win with our efficient creatures during the window presented to us. Some RUG players are out testing new variants (Grixis, I'm looking at you) or just don't feel like slogging through a BUG Delver infested meta (such as our current meta), which might explain its decline in poularity.
TL:DR, it's not the sexy deck of the week, so it's getting underplayed, but it's still powerful.
One of our local players was trying out this deck for about a month for all our FNMs. I don't know that he ever got more than 2 wins, so he abandoned the deck. I told him the deck was fine in the meta, but he insisted it just was not suited, so I told him I'd run it and show him.
Last week I was 5-0, 4-0 in to top 8, where I won and split top 4.
I beat Shardless BUG: 2-1, BUG Delver 2-0, ANT 2-1, MonoU Omni 2-1, top 8 Sharless BUG (again) 2-1.
I usually play BUG Delver and this deck is capable of winning, like others have said, though it is harder and your margins are much slimmer. I nearly lost a game to myself not stacking a Ponder correctly.
That being said, some of this deck's draws are almost unbeatable. I had a couple games where a couple Wastelands with a Stifle and my opponent was completely out of the game (one game I drew 2 Wastes off Ponders, plus 2 Stifles, plus a Waste in the opener).
I think the MoniShow matchup is very bad though, I was lucky to win that match, as he mistapped his lands, forgetting to leave an Island open to cast Flusterstorm, resulting in him having to Force of Will instead and leaving him low enough on cards that I could Force back. The third game I managed to catch his Omniscience with a K Grip in response to the Enter the Infinite and he had no extra mana to cast anything after and I had lethal on the board.
I did get to live the dream and Stifle a Storm trigger for the win though. He had to go off that turn and just could not find the discard spell he needed.
I am still going to prefer BUG, but it was neat to change it up a bit.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
@H
I think they key to beating Omni-Tell or any other combo deck (or any deck in general) is not having dead cards against them. Post board against Omni-Tell, I don't want more than 10 creatures and I don't want any burn spells, Fire/Ice being an obvious exception. If you have an SB configuration that allows this, I think you'll find the match up to be winnable.
The key is coming up with an MD/SB configuration that let's you not have any dead cards against as many of the decks in the meta as possible. This is most feasible in Fire/Ice builds and Gitaxian Probe builds, so it should be no surprise that these are the two tracks I recommend when it comes to putting together a RUG delver list.
Well, my sideboard was absolutely wrong, to put it mildly. I literally forgot my REBs at home, so I was not pleased at the pairing. That being said, it was better than playing against Elves,
I didn't mean to characterize the matchup as unwinnable. I think it is just unfavorable, since the mana-denial plan versus them can be very weak. That means that game 1 is probably rough, which it was for me for certain (even though in game 1, had he tapped his Tomb, I had a Bolt for lethal, but he correctly anticipated it and never tapped it).
I ran the Gitaxian Probe version of the deck, because I like how the look at the opponent's hand can help to inform your use of Stifle. It also lets you see more cards. I sure miss the discard I can feature in BUG, but of course that is just a different deck.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
@H, Well I would consider Elves to be a positive match up (more so than Omni-Tell)for any RUG build that doesn't have any dead cards post board. That would probably be a build featuring 6 burns spells MD, 3 Submerge, 2 Grafdigger's cage, 2 Rough SB and an extra Pierce/Flusterstorm in the board. That gives you 8 cards to bring in for 4 Stifle and 4 Daze.
I would congratulate you on beating Shardless BUG twice, that is a pretty positive match up when played correctly that can seem pretty intimidating between the sources of card advantage, Abrupt Decay and Tarmogoyf.
I just do not enjoy playing versus Elves, positive matchup or not,
I was not pleased when I realized that I was matched up with Shardless (and less pleased to see the same player again in top 8). I was lucky enough to have some strong mana denial hands to work with. Game 1 of the swiss, I left him with 1 land with a Delver out, by the time he finds more lands, it's too late. Game 2 I Stifle a fetch, but I run out of gas and he Decays my Delver, then plays three Lilianas to deal with all my threats. Game 3 I believe I Wastelanded him twice with a Delver out, then drew a Mongoose. He believed he could race me with the Goyf and a Creeping Tarpit, but I Ponder in to another Goose and a Bolt, so I take the Goose and chump-block the Goyf, draw the Bolt and swing with the other Goose.
In the top 8, he started with a suspended Visions. In the mean time, I Stifle a fetch and Waste a land. When Visions get cast, I Pierce it and he Forces, which is an alright trade there. I Ponder into another Wasteland, then Ponder again the next turn into a Stifle. I think I then Brainstormed into another Wasteland and he scoops, even though I had to threat. In game 2, I Bolt a Deathrite, Stifle a Shardless Agent, then Rough//Tumble away both. The ground gets clogged up with Goyfs and Goose, but I draw Delver and when that one dies, another Delver. He's getting in with Tar Pit and holding up a Deathrite to gain life, but I find bolt and he's at 4, so gaining 2 still has him dead to Delver and Bolt.
I think you have a real reasonable chance to win that match-up, but only if your draw comes together. There were tons of opportunity for those games to get out of hand, but the mana denial was pretty good when it was good.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Overall, I would rather be paired with Shardless BUG than BUG Delver. Shardless seems to be a turn slower compared to BUG delver, which allows me to lock them out of the game easier using mana denial strategies and Daze. My BUG Delver matches often come down to an attrition war with almost nothing on the board... and then I get blindsided by Tombstalker.
Lately I've had the edge in the Stoneblade matchups and done fairly well against BUG Delver. Shardless is still a problem but the other BUG Delver lists are manageable.
One of the things that flipped the Stoneblade matchup from unfavorable to favorable for me was holding up Delver and not playing it on turn 1 unless I had a pat hand behind it. Dropping a Delver and a Mongoose or a couple of Delvers on turn 3 or 4 after I've blunted their first 2 or 3 turns can turn into a fast rout for me. If I do that my Mongoose is 3/3 when it lands and the only thing they have that really stands up to it is a 2-of TNN, which I want to keep off the board at all costs anyway. They're not going to pair up equipment and anything else unless I have let them really get rolling early on. Also, I can better plan the Delver flip if I have a couple of turns to set it up. Dropping 2 Delvers on turn 3 or 4 can turn into a 2 turn clock pretty easily at that point.
If I drop Delver on turn 1 without protection behind it they will plow, bolt or disfigure it like 90% of the time and then the game is even at best, but really not, especially if I was on the play and they're a card ahead of me.
Last edited by FoolofaTook; 03-26-2015 at 08:39 PM.
What do people think about 4x Spell Pierce in main, like Jacob Wilson played at the invitationals this weekend?
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=81881
I think it is interesting when paired with the two main deck dismember. I personally like spell snare in combination with spell pierce, however maybe there is something in his build.
The approach is straight up solutions, i guess.. by maindecking lots of spell pierces you are strengthening up your already good UNFAIR matchups. Putting on 2 dismembers main will simply improve goyf wars, tasigurs, batterskulls, unlike snares that u need to have in your hand when sfm, goyf happens. probably a meta call for Jacob assuming there will be not much burn around... or even still, it can deal with early burn on multiple pierces.
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I think Jacob was expecting the legacy portion of the event to be filled with BUG decks and opted to play two dismembers main. Since you really can't play 2 dismembers with 2 probes he had to drop his usual probes, I suppose he chose 2 additional pierces over the traditional 2 snares for flexibility. Dismember is also kinda better against the rising infect deck since it can easily hit inkmoth nexus and can also hurt pumped creatures.
Cheers
I haven't looked at all his matches yet or a tournament report, but I'm pretty sure it was just a meta call against tasigur/angler. My guess is he was worried about 8 goyf.dec or something like that so dismember was an obvious choice. He's never ran spell snare I'm pretty sure for the most part he sticks tried and true to a probe + pierce + forked bolt configuration so I think the lack of snare might just be a personal preference on his part.
He played 2 snare in his sideboard, though.
Game 3 of Jacob Wilson verse Seth Manfield in the invitationals was a clinic on how to play RUG DELVER, if I could link the video from work I would. His lines baiting Manfield and navigating that match were absolutely perfect-
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/642193637?t=28h38m20s
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