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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2741

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    So Cindervines is actually anti-Counterbalance above everything else. You play it, and you not only get closer to winning (deals passive damage), but you also invalidate not on-board [yet] Counterbalance. Cindervines is also far more maindeckable than Abrade isn't b/c no decks play without noncreature spells, artifacts, and enchantments; also Goyf counts this card.

    RUG isn't ever really coming back to its glory days, but unlike pretty much anyone else in the format this deck can stop at throwing away only 4 slots of sideboard to have a reasonable shot vs both Hymn and CB (for Grixis you'd just use some hot garbage they can't even begin to interact with, like Compost). Enjoy it, no other deck can play legacy with 11 intact sideboard slots (for the rest of the format) and have such clean proactive answers to those two blights on the format.
    I don't think that you can maindeck this card because I think there are too many matchups where it's basically just RG Lava Spike.
    I might not even board this in vs Grixis because it's such a slow source of damage and there are basically no targets to hit with the ability.
    But I do like that it has very strong anti-control applications vs CB and B2B (and the trigger) and it can come down for 2 mana before a Moon or a Trinisphere.
    Looks worth testing but I seriously doubt the correct decision is to jam 4 in the board lol

  2. #2742
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I implied 4x slots were 2x and 2x anti-Grixis card, leaving you with 11x slots for SB vs rest of format.

  3. #2743
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm smashing BKClassic and Jesture's list together and trying it out tonight at a weekly 20+ player 4 rounds tournament. My metagame contains mostly Eldrazi and DnT/Maverick as aggro decks, Miracles and Grixis as control decks, and Reanimator and Lands as combo decks so I think Spell Snares instead of Stifle package is where I want to be. This deck reminds me a lot of Next Level Thresh... I'll let y'all know how it goes!
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  4. #2744
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    List and small report:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Noble Hierarch
    3 Tarmogoyf
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Hooting Mandrills

    Spells (27)
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Tarfire

    Lands (18)
    4 Wasteland
    8 Fetch
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Abrade
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Dismember
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Winter Orb
    1 Sylvan Library


    I got to the shop early and played 1 pre-board and 3 post-board games against Miracles. I lose pre-board to a timely Terminus with Force backup into Jace on the lethal turn.
    In: 2 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 3 Noble 1 Tarfire 1 Forked 1 Daze

    I take the first pre-board game riding Library. Lose the 2nd one to CB + B2B into Terminus with counter backup. Finally win the last one riding Orb. The games were good but I could use a 3rd Pyroblast out of the board.

    R1 vs. Eldrazi 1-2
    -On the draw
    G1: I get stomped by uncounterable TKS holding Daze and Force
    In: 2 Abrade 1 Grudge 1 Dismember 1 Orb
    Out: 2 Pierce 2 Snare 1 Forked
    G2: T1 Noble with Daze into 2 Wastelands and Orb makes him concede.
    G3: I keep a Noble opener with 2 Delvers and a Wasteland but he has a Ratchet Bomb on T1 and 4x uncounterable TKS T2-3-4.

    R2 vs. UB Reanimator 2-0
    -On the play
    G1: He double Forces my Delver with Daze backup and I win from there sculpting a counter hand and riding another Delver.
    In: 3 Surgical 2 Fluster 2 Pyro 1 Crypt
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Forked 2 Mandrill
    G2: He sides in Strixes but Snares and Daze/Force prevents him from doing anything and Goyf eventually takes it.

    R3 vs. UR Delver 2-0
    -On the draw
    G1: We trade Bolts on threats and TNN eventually beats him down.
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Pyro 1 Grim
    Out: 4 Force 1 Waste
    G2: Mulligan to 6 and win with 1 Life stabilizing with Goyf

    R4 vs. UW StoneStill 2-0
    -On the play
    G1: I flood out with 4 Wastes and Pierce and Snare 2 Standstills. Opponent resolves a Teferi but I topdeck a TNN into Noble that goes all the way.
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Pyro 2 Abrade 1 Grudge 1 Library 1 Orb
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Forked 3 Noble
    G2: I play a Delver that gets Sworded then we fight over a Gideon and I win with 3 counters. Then I slam Library into Orb and ride a TNN to victory.

    R5 vs. Grixis Control 1-2
    -On the draw
    G1: is long and grindy but I lose it to double Edicts on my TNN in topdeck mode
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Pyro 1 Dismember 1 Grim 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 3 Noble 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire

    G2: Orb and Wastes take the game with TNN beats and soft counters
    G3: Super long and grindy game with both of us at 1 life. A great match with many complete 180s. He gets a Strix while I draw a Daze and lose.

    Spell Snare did a huge amount of work against all the control decks and Reanimator. I am definitely happy I had it over Stifle today.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  5. #2745
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @Qweerios
    -One of the biggest reasons I run Stifle over Spell Snare mainboard is because I'm playing online where Show and Tell is on the uptick and I just can't afford to have a counterspell that does nothing against Show and Tell. For your meta, Spell Snare and this deck in general look really good.
    -Regarding your sideboarding against UB reanimator, I would not be boarding out Hooting Mandrills. A 1 mana Tarmogoyf is a lot better than a two mana Tarmogoyf when you need to hold up counter magic.
    -I would definitely be boarding out Force of Will against Grixis Control and I wouldn't board out Noble Hierarch. The huge tempo swing, especially on the draw, vastly outweighs the risk of their 2 sweepers and 1 Liliana, the Last Hope. The risk is also mitigated by not have the card disadvantage of Force of Will. I only board out Noble Hierarch against Miracles.
    Team MAINEdeck

  6. #2746
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Thanks for taking the time to write this up, seems like you had a pretty good run outside of getting Eldrdazi'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    R5 vs. Grixis Control 1-2
    -On the draw
    G1: is long and grindy but I lose it to double Edicts on my TNN in topdeck mode
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Pyro 1 Dismember 1 Grim 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 3 Noble 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire

    G2: Orb and Wastes take the game with TNN beats and soft counters
    G3: Super long and grindy game with both of us at 1 life. A great match with many complete 180s. He gets a Strix while I draw a Daze and lose.
    Regarding your Grixis Control matchup, what's the rationale for taking out Noble Hierarchs? I've always liked them more than Tarmogoyfs here, as they're helping you get ahead a hold on the game early while also insulating against Edict effects.

    My build's a little different, but if I were playing your 75 I'd consider something like this for sideboarding:

    -3 Tarmogoyf, -1 Tarfire, -1 Forked Bolt, -1 Lightning Bolt, +2 Pyroblast, +1 Dismember, +1 Grim Lavamancer, +1 Winter Orb, +1 Sylvan Library

    Cards coming in are pretty straight forward, I think I'm a little less high on Flusterstorm if we already have 2 Snares in the deck. I don't mind leaving a couple of bolts in for reach and Strix, but I was surprised to see you shave the Tarfire and Noble Hierarchs while leaving in the Tarmogoyfs. That 5th point of attack is crucial for getting past Gurmag Angler.

  7. #2747
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Thanks for your replies! I think you are both making good points about strategies I was unsure of...

    @BKClassic,

    It is true that Snare is worthless against SnT. I am willing to make that sacrifice given that Depths and Reanimator are much worst matchups IMO. I'd rather fight SnT with a good SB and it isn't all that common in my meta (rarely more than 1-2 players). I also think that Preordain and threat#15 or burn#6 have more value than Stifle in general so I wouldn't be able to play a full set...

    I preffer Goyf to Mandrill against Reanimator because he puts on the pressure faster with a Noble/Daze/FoW/Surgical hand. I guess I could side out TNN instead of Mandrill but I valued the blue card for FoW and the clock against a Reanimated Griselbrand/Grave Titan of TNN over the low cost of Mandrills here. I wouldn't blame anyone for choosing Mandrill over TNN in this matchup either.

    I thought a "protect the queen" strategy would be appropriate against Grixis as it is against Miracles and that FoW would become castable. FoW is definitely not that bad against Grixis because as the game drags on they tend to flood on lands FoW's card disadvantage evens out. I had not thought about multiple Edict effects and how Noble could act as a buffer here. Going forward I definitely won't keep any more than 1-2 FoW against Grixis Ctrl and review my boarding strategy.

    @Jesture,

    I think taking out Nobles was a mistake and I should have used them to pressure Strixes and buffer Edicts over FoW.

    Goyf is surprisingly good against Grixis because it doesn't die to Bolt, KCommand and LtLH. He is also bigger than Gurmag once a Strix or PW hits the GY. I even had Goyf swing in for 6 on T3 in one of those games. They only play 2-3 Pushes after all so Goyf tends to stick around and buffers Edicts for TNN much better than Noble.

    Flusterstorm is very good against Snapcaster (Storm starts at 3), KCommand and Deluge. It also counters cantrips when they are low on Lands or stumbling against TNN/Mandrills.

    I think burn spells are by far the worst cards in this matchup followed by either FoW or Noble. I also won't be siding in a single Dismember for their 0-2 Anglers anymore because the life cost is sometimes impossible to meet or puts you in burn reach when riding Library. I think FoW#2 is also better now that I keep Nobles postboard. This is what I'll be trying out next:
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Forked 2 FoW

    Thanks for your insights, I really enjoy playing this deck!
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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  8. #2748
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    @Jesture,

    I think taking out Nobles was a mistake and I should have used them to pressure Strixes and buffer Edicts over FoW.

    Goyf is surprisingly good against Grixis because it doesn't die to Bolt, KCommand and LtLH. He is also bigger than Gurmag once a Strix or PW hits the GY. I even had Goyf swing in for 6 on T3 in one of those games. They only play 2-3 Pushes after all so Goyf tends to stick around and buffers Edicts for TNN much better than Noble.

    Flusterstorm is very good against Snapcaster (Storm starts at 3), KCommand and Deluge. It also counters cantrips when they are low on Lands or stumbling against TNN/Mandrills.

    I think burn spells are by far the worst cards in this matchup followed by either FoW or Noble. I also won't be siding in a single Dismember for their 0-2 Anglers anymore because the life cost is sometimes impossible to meet or puts you in burn reach when riding Library. I think FoW#2 is also better now that I keep Nobles postboard. This is what I'll be trying out next:
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Forked 2 FoW

    Thanks for your insights, I really enjoy playing this deck!
    All fair points. I've been hinging my 75 on Winter Orb which in turn means there's a couple of things that we'll be doing differently (for example I'm pretty unlikely to cut FoW vs Grixis Control solely for how good it is with Orb.) That said, I think you make some pretty solid points about Tarmogoyf and its role in the matchup. I'll do a bit of tinkering with the deck going forward, as I'm happy with the results so far but still think the 75 could use some work.

  9. #2749
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've been mulling over my list in search of a way to improve Eldrazi, various Control matchups, Lands and Reanimator. I ended up making slight modifications to the main and side and review some of my SB plans. Here are the changes:

    -4th Goyf over 2nd Mandrills. Goyf is the better tempo play and one of our only legs to stand on against Eldrazi and Anglers. He puts on a better clock against Combo decks as well and is basically the next best thing after Delver. Mandrills act more as a 5th Goyf than a 4th TNN most of the time. Decay being uncommon and Push seeing play in very few decks makes Goyf my preffered choice for its size and casting cost.

    -I moved the Dismember main over Forked Bolt to improve my odds against Eldrazis and Angler and free up a SB slot for that 3rd Pyroblast I wanted. Dismember and Forked were functionnally similar anyway.

    -I changed the single Crypt in my SB for an Ooze. This change helps against Bolt decks, Maverick, Lands, and adds a relevant threat against Snapcaster decks and Storm. The only downside is to have a slower but more powerful piece of GY hate against Reanimator and Dredge. I only consider Ooze a suitable 4th piece of GY hate because of Nobles.

    -The last change is a small swap from Grudge to Revelry. This change allows me to get rid of Choke and Blood Moon and have another card to bring in against Miracles and Lands.

    Here's my current list and SB map open for criticism. The matchups in bold usually show up in multiples while the others tend to see play occasionally.

    Creatures (15)
    3 Noble Hierarch
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Hooting Mandrills

    Spells (27)
    1 Dismember
    1 Tarfire
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Preordain

    Lands (18)
    4 Wasteland
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard
    1 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Abrade
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Winter Orb
    1 Sylvan Library


    AGGRO

    DnT / Maverick
    In: 2 Abrade 1 Revelry 1 Grim 1 Ooze 1 Library
    Out: 4 Force 2 Pierce

    Eldrazi
    In: 2 Abrade 1 Revelry 1 Orb
    Out: 2 Pierce 2 Snare

    Red Stompy
    In: 2 Abrade 1 Revelry
    Out: 2 Snare 1 Tarfire

    Delver
    In: 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Ooze 0-3 Pyro
    Out: 2 Pierce 2 Snare 0-3 Force

    Burn
    In: 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Ooze
    Out: 3 Force 1 Dismember

    CONTROL

    Miracles
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Revelry 1 Ooze 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 3 Noble 4 Daze 1 Tarfire 1 Dismembr

    Grixis
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Ooze 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 4 Force 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire

    Stoneblade
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Abrade 1 Revelry 1 Ooze 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 3 Noble 4 Force 1 Tarfire 1 Dismembr

    COMBO

    Lands
    In: 3 Surgical 2 Abrade 1 Revelry 1 Ooze 1 Orb 1 Library
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember 3 Daze

    Turbo Depths
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Abrade 1 Revelry 1 Library
    Out: 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember

    SnT
    In: 2 Surgical 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Revelry
    Out: 2 Snare 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember

    Storm
    In: 3 Pyro 2 Fluster 1 Ooze
    Out: 3 TNN 1 Mandrills 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember

    UB/BR Reanimator
    In: 3 Pyro 3 Surgical 2 Fluster 1 Ooze
    Out: 3 TNN 4 Bolt 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember

    Dredge
    In: 3 Surgical 2 Fluster 1 Grim 1 Ooze
    Out: 3 TNN 2 Snare 1 Tarfire 1 Dismember

    Elves
    In: 2 Fluster 1 Grim
    Out: 2 Snare 1 Daze

    Infect
    In: 2 Fluster 2 Abrade 1 Grim
    Out: 3 TNN 2 Snare

    Is there anything in my SB map that looks out of place?
    Thanks for reading!
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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  10. #2750
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    You definitely want to find room for the Sylvan Library vs Infect. I'd recommend trimming a Force of Will or a Tarmogoyf.

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