What are the primary reasons to keep playing RUG over Grixis delver?
-RUG maintain a better miracles matchup
-RUG can comfortably keep playing their own sweepers, giving a better elves matchup (?!)
-Spellbased combo are essentialy the same, as the primary threat (delver) and countersuit are the same.
-Grixis is better at Everything else (?!)
- ...especially at kicking RUG up and down the street in the "mirror-match".
They are very different decks dude, RUG is a pure tempo deck, while grixis is more of an aggro deck. From my experience playing both decks grixis is much better against miracles. Grixis has a different plan against spell based combo due to death rite and cabal therapy in the board, and less pierces. Also, I think Canadian has an edge in the "mirror" as long as you are playing dismember for angler. Canadian is more focused on tempo and denial so it has an edge.Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear
as someone who has pretty much only played grixis or rug delver for the last few years, i totally agree with this post, except for the condition on the mirror match edge--i think rug has the edge whether it plays dismember or not. i think another big difference is that rug is stronger pre-sideboard, whereas grixis tends to have stronger options from the board, and thus be better post-board.
Hey folks, I'm just starting to get into playing Rug Delver and I'm spending my time thinking about which fetchlands to play instead of how to fill the flex slots or sideboard. Dumb, I know, but while I'm on the subject, is there any reason not to play 4 Foothills and then 1 of each blue fetch?
Page 77 There is discussion about fetches and what to use. Personally I like Polluted Deltas and Flooded Strands. I will fetch up a volcanic 1st often to not give away my stifle as that could be any number of decks. When you fetch from a wooded foothill to a volc. or trop. people will know that your on rug delver. But if you don't fetch early it would be hard for them to put you on rug with wooded foothills. I think its just a matter of preference..
The enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.
-Jerry Rice
i love presenting a non blue deck by having a full set of wooded as my fetches. my other 4 would be variables.
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A list won the most recent SCG Premier IQ with the 54 + 3 spell pierce, 3 chain lightning. I love this aggro burn approach. What do you guys think? SB looks pretty standard but the Firestorm is interesting. Aside from Null Rod hating out Top, what do you guys bring it in against? I feel like Pithing Needle hate is sufficient.
I'd probably run a couple Forked Bolt and/or Chain Lightning if I ran it. I think my original RUG list had 3 SPierce and 3 Chain but it never made it to paper as I kept playing other lists.
It'll be a lot worse than Forked Bolt versions to Elves and D&T.
Here's an interesting thought...if you had to choose a highlander sideboard, what would it be?
Example:
1 Submerge
1 Dismember
1 Rough/Tumble
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger’s Cage
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Vendilion Clique
Hey guys, what's the consensus about Gitaxian Probe? I've seen some lists in the past with 4, then with 3~2, then none. I think Gitaxian Probe is a double-edge sword, while it can provide vital information on how to play your spells correctly, it doesn't do anything on it's own.
I've played a local Friday Night Magic in my homecity. 3-1 in the swiss with the following list:
Lands [18]
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
Creatures [12]
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells [30]
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
2 Tarfire
1 Dismember
Sideboard [15]
2 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Null Rod
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Sulfur Elemental
It went pretty much like this:
R1) Elves (2-0) Dice: win
G1: I beat him with Delver turn 1, double Bolt and Wasteland for Cradle. He tries to Natural Order on turn 4, but I have the Spell Pierce and he can't pay.
G2: I trade 4 Elves for Rough/Tumble and play double Goyf after using Force of Will twice (on GSZ for 4 and Natural Order). Goyfs go all the way because he can't draw anything relevant and has to start blocking at some point.
R2) Miracles (2-1) Dice: win
G1: He swords all my creatures with Snapcaster Mage, and I can't seem to find a Mongoose. He makes a mistake trying to Entreat the Angels for 3, only to get Dazed. After some Top shenanigans he manages to play Counterbalance + Top, with a 2CMC floating on top 3, which means game.
G2: I play a turn 2 Null Rod, followed by two Nimble Mongooses. He attempts to Terminus but I have Force of Will with Pyroblast backup for his Counterspell.
G3: I Force his turn 1 Top and use Surgical on it. His hand is full of crap and he's trying to Brainstorm out of it, but I stifle one of his fetches, leaving him Brainstorm locked. He has only 1 white source in Tundra and I topdeck Wasteland like a boss to seal the deal.
R3) MUD (0-2) Dice: lose
G1: I mull to 6 because my first 7 had only Wasteland as manasource. Keep a fairly greedy 1 lander with Ponder and Brainstorm. He goes turn 1 Ancient Tomb -> Chalice of the Void and I scoop in response.
G2: I mull twice, first hand had no lands, second hand had Tropical as only land, 2 bolts and no cantrips. I keep 5 with Force of Will, Goose, Ponder, Revelry and Flooded Strand. I play Strand -> Tropical -> Goose. He tries to Chalice on turn 1 again but I force it. I draw Lightning Bolt pass, he plays Metalworker on his turn. I draw Tarmogoyf, pass. He activates Metalworker for a billion mana, play Lodestone Golem and Wurmcoil Engine and I scoop.
R4) Some weird form of ANT (2-0) Dice: lose
G1: He starts with fetch -> Watery Grave and plays Thoughtseize, taking my Delver. I draw another Delver and play it. He fetches again, and play Brainstorm after (that was really weird) and pass. My delver doesn't flip, but I draw the second land I needed. I have Daze and Spell Pierce in hand, and decide to take a risk by playing Tarmogoyf. He plays Brainstorm again, then Preordain, pass. Great, my gamble worked. Delver flips off Bolt, and I attack with delver + 3/4 goyf and Bolt him to 4 life. On his turn, he tries to Dark Ritual off three lands, I Spell Pierce it, he pays. I Daze it, his Ritual gets countered and he doesn't have any more mana to work with.
G2: He goes for the Turn 2 combo unprotected, only to get my Flusterstorm in the face.
I won some store credit after getting 2nd place and trade it for some foil cards for my Pauper deck. Deck worked fine, anyone has any suggestions?
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
Are you sure Tarfire is worth it...over Chain or Forked.
Well, each burn spell has its up and down sides.
Tarfire:
+ Grows Goyf
+ Instant
- Only 2 damage
Forked Bolt:
+ Split damage
- Sorcery
- Only 2 damage
Chain Lightning:
+ 3 damage
- Sorcery
- Bad against red decks
I like Tarfire better because you can make 5/6 goys without your opponent's graveyard. But I'd definetly switch it for Forked Bolt if Death and Taxes was relevant in my meta.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I do not think Tarfire and Dismember works together. Tarfire will pump goyfs to usually up to 5/6 and then you can't Dismember them.
Played in a local tournament on Saturday and wanted to share. Played mostly a standard list running 3 pierces and 3 chain lightnings. One major change I made was -1 wasteland +1 island. It was insane that night with everybody packing bloodmoons sideboard and even one main board. Beat jund, storm (tired to go off met with Pierce Pierce daze daze, man blue is fun). And mono red sneak attack. Only lost to dredge, g1 t1 kills me, game three he "goes off" at 2 life.
After a few miserable months of Death and Taxes I have finally found my baby again: RUG <3
Played in a local weekly 4 round event.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Forked Bolt
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 2 Rough // Tumble
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
Round 1: ANT
G1 - I land a T1 Delver. He Duresses my Force of will leaving me with double Daze, land and a Spell Pierce. I draw a Probe and see LED, LED, Ponder, Brainstorm, Delta and Tropical. Draw Ponder off Probe and find another Force. On 6 life he casts a bunch of rituals with enough mana to pay for all the soft counters but he does not hit another discard so my Force takes down his Infernal Tutor and he scoops.
G2 - I play a T1 Delver and T2 Goyf, "thinking" about "Dazing" his cantrips to buy more time when I'm tapped out (I only have a Ponder, Spell Pierce and Bolt). He Cabal Therapies naming FoW. I show my hand and next turn Ponder into Force. I believe he tries to cast a Cabal Ritual which I counter, eot Bolt and swing for lethal.
Out: -1 Forked Bolt, -2 Lightning Bolt, -2 Nimble Mongoose, -1 Probe
In: +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Surgical Extraction
2-0
(1-0)
Round 2: RUG Delver (3 Chain Lightnings)
G1 - He wins the dice roll and plays a T1 Delver. I Probe him seeing Fow, Daze, Daze, Brainstorm, Pierce. I Waste his only land. He draws a blank and passes. My T2 Mongoose meets a Force of Will. He blanks again. I Bolt his Delver and play a Goose T3 and a Goyf T4, he blanks and scoops.
G2 - This is a close one. We both drop our Delvers T1. His one flips revealing Stifle, mine doesn't. I Stifle his fetch and he quickly Surgicals my Stifles after. My Delver flips. Next turn he tries to Bolt my Delver but I have mana to Flusterstorm and pay for Daze. Now I can Bolt his Delver with another Flusterstorm in hand while he is tapped out. Plan works. He plays a thresholded Mongoose. Delver and Goose exchange beats but I am losing the race. At 6 life I need to stop attacking. Delver and Mongoose stare at each other for a few turns. I Ponder into a Force leaving Goyf on top. His Goyf gets countered while mine resolves.
Out (on the draw): -3 Daze, -2 Force, -2 Spell Pierce
In: +2 Submerge, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Vendilion Clique
2-0
(2-0)
Round 3: BUG Delver (with Hymns)
G1 - I go first playing a T1 Delver. He Thoughtseizes me T1 taking a Stifle. I play a Wasteland and drop a Goyf T2. He Decays the Goyf. I Waste his Sea but he finds another land and casts Hymn to Tourach. I Force pitching Force. I play a Mongoose and he doesn't find anything.
G2 - I manage to Waste Stifle lock him out of the game.
Out (on the draw): -3 Daze, -2 Force, -1 Spell Pierce, -2 Probe
In: +2 Submerge, +2 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Pithing Needle
2-0
(3-0)
Round 4: Burn
G1 - Early creatures with counter magic get there while he draws five Mountains and I'm still on a healthy 13 life.
G2 - A close one where he resolves two Eidolons. I'm ahead in the race and if he wants to kill my Delver he has to take 4 damage which would make the Bolt in my hand lethal. Unfortunately his last two cards are Fireblasts.
G3 - A close one as well. I have a slow start with T1 Mongoose and he starts Bolting my face without hesitation. I manage to play a Goyf to hold back his Eidolon. I cast a Rough//Tumble, killing his Eidolon and reaching threshold in the process. Swing for 8 dmg twice and on his upkeep I Bolt him with Flusterstorm backup in case he has Price of Progress + Fireblast.
Out: -4 Stifle, -2 Probe
In: +2 Flusterstorm, +1 Krosan Grip, +1 Vendilion Clique, +2 Rough//Tumble
2-1
(4-0)
---
Deck felt solid as always. I really like Probes as they make reaching threshold easier and provide valuable information.
That's the exact fifteen I had on my mind when I was considering an EDHesque sideboard prior to some lgs tourney fourtnight ago.
The two blasts are a gimmick, and the missing second Submerge, while somehow mitigated by Dismember is still that: a missing. However I like the sb.
Speaking of fetchlands, it depends on what you wanna do, and what's your budget, and where do you play (do they know you), and also art preferences.
I guess that Foothills might work in bigger tourneys. 4+4 U/G and U/R (or some split of them and U/B) seems solid in case you'd ever want to switch to UGbr. (But these days Deltas are not that much more expensive then Zendikar fetches, so we, especialy considering the print of Where Once Dragons Meh, Now Dragons' Bones Meh fetchlands.)
I dislike the nonexistance of even a smallest CA tool. Is there a way how to incorporate either Ancestral Vision or Predict? I like the second one, but it's a cmc2 card, so it's kinda crappy.
Btw, I'm 11 cards away from rebuilding RUG Delver. Fortunately these are just some crap cards (set of those new Werebears, 8 sacrifice lands and some faerie from Mortgage expansion), so it shouldn't take much time and effort to be back on track.
How do you guys feel about the new NATURAL STATE? Seems like a great addition against MUD, Stoneblade decks...
Huh? O_o
It's 3cc, max. Doesn't hit their robots, CC1 so doesn't get past Chalice, stops Jitte/Swords but not Batterskull.
It has applications, maybe, but not against those two decks. I'd look more for Shardless, decks that like to play Library, and the like.
This deck is very well positioned right now I believe. I'm am undefeated at my lgs the last two tournaments. I've been running the standard 54 and 2 forked bolt 1 dismember and 3 spell pierces. I played against storm, elf's two times, grixis delver two times, stifle nought, dragon stompy and goblins running chalice. The configuration has been solid for me the last few months. The lone dismember has been an all star winning goyf battles and killing swamp fish. There are times when its kind of bad like when I kill a 1/2 deathrite but they are a kill on sight for this deck. Spell pierce is very good most match ups and I cant imagine running less than three. Forked bolt is my is a beast. I tried out chain lightning and the reach was good was good but I felt it was unnecessary, because if an opponent is down to three life we will usually win that game anyway. I really like the possible two for one that forked provided plus the one damage to kill a creature and one to the face is not to be underestimated. I personally have not been a fan of probe because I simply do not want to cut from my flex spots as those cards have proved to be amazing. rough/tumble out of the board just wins games, often it was better than 2 for one.
I hold up stifle mana every game I have them and that has really paid off (something I learned by reading this thread, thanks all!). In most cases if I had no stifle target bolt and pierce would do the trick and I could counter a brainstorm or bolt a deathrite.
The enemy of the best is the good. If you're always settling with what's good, you'll never be the best.
-Jerry Rice
Congrats on the results! What your sideboard looks like at the moment? Can you explain any less traditional choices?
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