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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2901

    [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I think the tension is smaller than you think. Drinker is totally fine as Savanna Lion should you have winter orb in play. Iím curious how Goose turn out. This is what iíve run:

    Deck: Legacy Delver Noble RUG

    Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

    Creatures:12
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Hexdrinker
    4 Noble Hierarch
    1 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
    1 Hooting Mandrills

    Spells:30
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Chain Lightning
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Winter Orb
    1 Force of Negation
    2 Oko, Thief of Crowns
    4 Force of Will

    Lands:18
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard:15
    1 Brazen Borrower // Petty Theft
    2 Blazing Volley
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Veil of Summer
    2 Abrade
    1 Null Rod
    1 Winter Orb

  2. #2902
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Once the deck starts running Noble Heirarch, it does not want Delver of Secrets and vice versa. Noble is best with Stoneforge Mystic and other creature cards, Delver needs a higher instant/sorcery count to work.

    For that reason, outside of Oko and creatures, you don't want to run any non-instant or sorcery cards main deck. Your main deck should be 9-13 creatures, 18 lands, and 2 Oko, so you have 27-31 instant/sorceries for a good chance to flip Delver.

    I also think this deck wants Tarmogoyf. And Stifle. Stifle fits the Daze/Wasteland plan well and protects our fragile 18 land.
    "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

  3. #2903
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Wizard View Post
    Once the deck starts running Noble Heirarch, it does not want Delver of Secrets and vice versa. Noble is best with Stoneforge Mystic and other creature cards, Delver needs a higher instant/sorcery count to work.
    I definitely agree. I don't know if people want to talk about a Delver-less build in this thread but this is what I have been trying lightly:

    1 Dryad Arbor
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    4 Noble Hierarch
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Ramanup Excavator
    1 Tireless Tribe

    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Punishing Fire

    4 Oko, Thief of Crowns

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    3 Green Sun's Zenith

    3 Daze
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Force of Will

    Sideboard:
    1 Collector Ouphe
    2 Reclemation Sage
    2 Veil of Summer
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Flusterstorm
    3 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Surgical Extraction

    After the Wrenn and Six banning, I started by trying to run Punishing Fire in Delver builds for more grinding power against these UWx Snow decks. It kind of worked but Delver just doesn't go great with Grove/Punishing Fire. So I tried some durdley snow RUG builds with Astrolabe, Ice-Fang Coatl and Punishing Fire. They weren't great. I then tried some of the NO RUG builds that have had some results online of late. That deck sort of works well but kind of needs to commit to being a snow deck or not.

    Regarding this deck, I just think Noble Hierarch is the superior tempo card compared to Delver of Secrets. Cranking out Oko's is where you want to be and Veil of Summer means that permanent based answers are ideal, which invites Green Sun's Zenith. You could run Natural Order in a build like this but consider the upside of Natural Order versus UWx Snow, Death and Taxes and Delver. Natural Order is sort of better against Death and Taxes but terrible against the other two and Punishing Fire is great against all three.

    Regarding the Green Sun's Zenith Package, Tireless tribe is awesome. I kind of want to just run 3 Tarmogoyf and 2 Tireless Tribe. I've been running Scavenging Ooze because I see everyone else doing it but I think Collector Ouphe is the more actionable MD hate card. Still finessing the numbers and the sideboard.
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  4. #2904
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    I then tried some of the NO RUG builds that have had some results online of late. That deck sort of works well but kind of needs to commit to being a snow deck or not.
    Word on the street is that Bahra has had some good results of late with his build of NO RUG, but I don't know what it is exactly and haven't seen it myself.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  5. #2905

    [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Came second in our local legacy leagues season finals with this 2020 version of canadian.
    Next up iím gonna try the grixis tech of drawspell plus mystic sanctuary. The draw card of choice will obviously be Tragic Lesson.


    https://mtgdecks.net/Legacy/legacy-l...urnament-60364

    Some back story om the build.

    Iíve been running noble RUG before W&6 with tnn. After W&6 ban hierarch felt very powerful to gain early tempo advantage. I really liked how the extra mana-sources had synergies with mana intensive cards such as Oko and Hexdrinker and also with the Ēhold up mana packageĒ of pierce, snare, stifle, reb, veil.

    However Nobel hierarch took a threat slot and sometimes iíd feel too threat light. So the last weeks i went up to 14 threats:
    4 delver +2 hexdrinkers
    3-4 Goyf
    2-3 Oko
    0-1 borrower
    And up to 20 lands of which two were canopy lands that can prevent flooding.
    Last edited by JackaBo; 02-13-2020 at 09:40 AM.

  6. #2906
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  7. #2907
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  8. #2908
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Well, I hope everyone is enjoying the post-Lurris metagame. I figured I would share my results through six leagues and discuss some of my conclusions. I primarily played a configuration with Tarmogoyf and Hooting Mandrills but I also experimented with Nimble Mongoose and Dreadhorde Arcanist as noted:

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    GWUB aggro loam 2-1
    Omnitell 2-0
    Hogaak 1-2
    Reanimator 1-2
    BW Pox 2-0
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Dreadhorde:
    Mono Black Pox 2-1
    Snowko 0-2
    Mono Black Reanimator 2-0
    Hogaak 1-2
    UG Titan 1-2
    Result: 2-3

    Goose and Goyf:
    UG Show and Tell 1-2
    UBR Storm 2-0
    Eldrazi 2-0
    Aluren 2-0
    UR Delver 2-1
    Result: 4-1

    Goose and Goyf:
    Enchantress 2-1
    RUG Delver 1-2
    Ninjas 1-2
    Dredge 2-0
    UW Yorion Miracles 2-0
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    Mono Black Tin Fins 1-2
    Gyruda Reanimator Depths 2-1
    TES 2-1
    UR Delver 2-1
    UG Titan 1-2
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    RUG Delver 2-0
    Elves 1-2
    RUG Delver 2-1
    RUG Delver 2-1
    Urion Snowko 1-2
    Result: 3-2

    Win Percentage: 60%

    Conclusions:
    -As you can see, while Astrolabe's presence in the metagame is felt, it isn't exactly dominating the meta. The meta seems to be Delver, Snowko, and various unfair decks which are mostly graveyard decks.
    -Unfortunately, Hooting Mandrills is much better in RUG Delver mirrrors but Nimble Mongoose is much against Snowko. The fast beatdown of Hooting Mandrills is usually appreciated against the various unfair match ups, so I played Mandrills the most.

    Here is the what I've settled on so far:

    4 Wasteland
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Hooting Mandrills

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Lightning Bolt

    4 Stifle
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    5 Open-Slots

    Sideboard:
    3 Pyroblast
    12 Open-Slots, probably at least 3 graveyard hate spells.

    I did have some intial concerns about running 3 Hooting Mandrills with no Thout Scours or additional cantrips. Last time I played the 4 Delver/4 Goyf/3 Mandrills loadout I was playing 4x Gitaxian Probe to fill the graveyard. However, this configuration seems to be running pretty smoothly. Hooting Mandrills synergizes nicely with Stifle since you can't drop Mandrills turn 1 anyway letting you hold up Stifle.

    With regard to the main deck open slots, I'm really not sure what to do with them. Most people seem to be running Oko, Chain Lightning and Force of Negation in these slots and it is what I have been playing as well. Unfortunately, in Hooting Mandrills build, a couple Oko's in the maindeck is not going to swing the Snowko match in your favor. Oko isn't especially good in Delver mirrors or against the unfair decks. Chain Lightning isn't very good or exciting but a couple extra answers to Dreadhorde Arcanist are appreciated. I guess the Force of Negation is all right. In general, it's hard to find 5 more cards that are as good as the other 55 cards in the deck. Cards I might be more excited about might include Spell Pierce, Brazen Borrower and Dismember.

    With regard to the sideboard, there are unfortunately a multitude of cards I'm interested in. Veil of Summer, Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Winter Orb, Klothys, Collector Ouphe, Return to Nature, Cindervines, Submerge, Rough/Tumble.
    -Veil of Summer is a card I can't make my mind up about. Most opponents have designed their deck not to walk into in. The Doomsday deck doesn't target you to win anymore with Thassa's Oracle and TES just plays Veil of Summer and Defense Grid as protection spells. Against Show and Tell, Veil of Summer doesn't trump their Veil of Summer when they go to cast Show and Tell. Basically in unfair situations, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are a lot better. However, against Snowko, you can be sure that they are going to try and Abrupt Decay your Winter Orb and that is the application where Veil of Summer shines the most. However, I can't really figure out a Hooting Mandrills configuration that I like against Snowko which makes me want to consider the match up a lost cause since it isn't dominating the meta.
    -Also I can't really decide what graveyard hate package I like best. To consistently beat all graveyard decks, I think the best option would be 4 maindeck Dreadhorde Arcanist plus 4 sideboard Surgical Extraction. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't really get the job does against Hogaak as they bring in removal for for it or just put Hogaak into play from their hand. The problem with Dreadhorde Arcanist is that it probably involves not playing Stifle which seems highly questionable to me and it isn't the best card in the Delver mirror and being able to win the mirror is definitely something we have to be able to do. I've been playing 2x Surgical Extraction and 2x Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard, which is probably the best configuration against Reanimator but drawing a lone Surgical Extraction in your opening 7 as your only graveyard hate against Hogaak or Dredge is a little lackluster. I suppose if you can beat them down quickly, which the Hooting Mandrills build can do, a single Surgical Extraction can get the job done. The 2x Cage and Surgical is the configuration I have been running but I have strongly been considering Tormod's Crypt which is quite good Dredge and Reanimator but a little lackluster against Hogaak.

    All in all I just need to figure out a way to pick up a few more percentage points so I can 4-1 more regularly. Unfortunately, I don't know how much more juice can be squeezed from the Mandrills build. It has a great mirror, but the upside against unfair decks isn't that great compared to Mongoose builds and Mandrills aren't great against Snowko. I guess I can see Mongeese having an acceptable mirror against other RUG Delver decks, which mostly seem to be running Hooting Mandrills. This would probably involve main deck Brazen Borrowers to bounce opposing Mandrills. Maybe there is a Dreadhorde build out there that could somehow win me over. Still a lot of work to be done on the sideboard, I really can't decide what I want in there.

    Anyway, if anyone else is playing RUG Delver I would be fascinated to see what you are running and how you put your sideboard together. Cheerio!
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  9. #2909

    [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    Well, I hope everyone is enjoying the post-Lurris metagame. I figured I would share my results through six leagues and discuss some of my conclusions. I primarily played a configuration with Tarmogoyf and Hooting Mandrills but I also experimented with Nimble Mongoose and Dreadhorde Arcanist as noted:

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    GWUB aggro loam 2-1
    Omnitell 2-0
    Hogaak 1-2
    Reanimator 1-2
    BW Pox 2-0
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Dreadhorde:
    Mono Black Pox 2-1
    Snowko 0-2
    Mono Black Reanimator 2-0
    Hogaak 1-2
    UG Titan 1-2
    Result: 2-3

    Goose and Goyf:
    UG Show and Tell 1-2
    UBR Storm 2-0
    Eldrazi 2-0
    Aluren 2-0
    UR Delver 2-1
    Result: 4-1

    Goose and Goyf:
    Enchantress 2-1
    RUG Delver 1-2
    Ninjas 1-2
    Dredge 2-0
    UW Yorion Miracles 2-0
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    Mono Black Tin Fins 1-2
    Gyruda Reanimator Depths 2-1
    TES 2-1
    UR Delver 2-1
    UG Titan 1-2
    Result: 3-2

    Goyf and Mandrills:
    RUG Delver 2-0
    Elves 1-2
    RUG Delver 2-1
    RUG Delver 2-1
    Urion Snowko 1-2
    Result: 3-2

    Win Percentage: 60%

    Conclusions:
    -As you can see, while Astrolabe's presence in the metagame is felt, it isn't exactly dominating the meta. The meta seems to be Delver, Snowko, and various unfair decks which are mostly graveyard decks.
    -Unfortunately, Hooting Mandrills is much better in RUG Delver mirrrors but Nimble Mongoose is much against Snowko. The fast beatdown of Hooting Mandrills is usually appreciated against the various unfair match ups, so I played Mandrills the most.

    Here is the what I've settled on so far:

    4 Wasteland
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogoyf
    3 Hooting Mandrills

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Lightning Bolt

    4 Stifle
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    5 Open-Slots

    Sideboard:
    3 Pyroblast
    12 Open-Slots, probably at least 3 graveyard hate spells.

    I did have some intial concerns about running 3 Hooting Mandrills with no Thout Scours or additional cantrips. Last time I played the 4 Delver/4 Goyf/3 Mandrills loadout I was playing 4x Gitaxian Probe to fill the graveyard. However, this configuration seems to be running pretty smoothly. Hooting Mandrills synergizes nicely with Stifle since you can't drop Mandrills turn 1 anyway letting you hold up Stifle.

    With regard to the main deck open slots, I'm really not sure what to do with them. Most people seem to be running Oko, Chain Lightning and Force of Negation in these slots and it is what I have been playing as well. Unfortunately, in Hooting Mandrills build, a couple Oko's in the maindeck is not going to swing the Snowko match in your favor. Oko isn't especially good in Delver mirrors or against the unfair decks. Chain Lightning isn't very good or exciting but a couple extra answers to Dreadhorde Arcanist are appreciated. I guess the Force of Negation is all right. In general, it's hard to find 5 more cards that are as good as the other 55 cards in the deck. Cards I might be more excited about might include Spell Pierce, Brazen Borrower and Dismember.

    With regard to the sideboard, there are unfortunately a multitude of cards I'm interested in. Veil of Summer, Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Winter Orb, Klothys, Collector Ouphe, Return to Nature, Cindervines, Submerge, Rough/Tumble.
    -Veil of Summer is a card I can't make my mind up about. Most opponents have designed their deck not to walk into in. The Doomsday deck doesn't target you to win anymore with Thassa's Oracle and TES just plays Veil of Summer and Defense Grid as protection spells. Against Show and Tell, Veil of Summer doesn't trump their Veil of Summer when they go to cast Show and Tell. Basically in unfair situations, Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm are a lot better. However, against Snowko, you can be sure that they are going to try and Abrupt Decay your Winter Orb and that is the application where Veil of Summer shines the most. However, I can't really figure out a Hooting Mandrills configuration that I like against Snowko which makes me want to consider the match up a lost cause since it isn't dominating the meta.
    -Also I can't really decide what graveyard hate package I like best. To consistently beat all graveyard decks, I think the best option would be 4 maindeck Dreadhorde Arcanist plus 4 sideboard Surgical Extraction. Grafdigger's Cage doesn't really get the job does against Hogaak as they bring in removal for for it or just put Hogaak into play from their hand. The problem with Dreadhorde Arcanist is that it probably involves not playing Stifle which seems highly questionable to me and it isn't the best card in the Delver mirror and being able to win the mirror is definitely something we have to be able to do. I've been playing 2x Surgical Extraction and 2x Grafdigger's Cage in the sideboard, which is probably the best configuration against Reanimator but drawing a lone Surgical Extraction in your opening 7 as your only graveyard hate against Hogaak or Dredge is a little lackluster. I suppose if you can beat them down quickly, which the Hooting Mandrills build can do, a single Surgical Extraction can get the job done. The 2x Cage and Surgical is the configuration I have been running but I have strongly been considering Tormod's Crypt which is quite good Dredge and Reanimator but a little lackluster against Hogaak.

    All in all I just need to figure out a way to pick up a few more percentage points so I can 4-1 more regularly. Unfortunately, I don't know how much more juice can be squeezed from the Mandrills build. It has a great mirror, but the upside against unfair decks isn't that great compared to Mongoose builds and Mandrills aren't great against Snowko. I guess I can see Mongeese having an acceptable mirror against other RUG Delver decks, which mostly seem to be running Hooting Mandrills. This would probably involve main deck Brazen Borrowers to bounce opposing Mandrills. Maybe there is a Dreadhorde build out there that could somehow win me over. Still a lot of work to be done on the sideboard, I really can't decide what I want in there.

    Anyway, if anyone else is playing RUG Delver I would be fascinated to see what you are running and how you put your sideboard together. Cheerio!
    Hey
    I've been running little more midrange version during the breach meta which served me well:
    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=24597&d=372045&f=LE
    I don't think I like 3 mandrills. Have you played around with Hexdrinker? To me it has been really strong. This particular sideboard might be a little off in an open meta since this was the league finals, an invitational tourney with 16 known players.

    After that I have been testing an arcanist centric build which you might want to try.
    The deck has run
    4 delver
    4 arcanist
    3 pyromancer
    3 oko

    4 bolt + 1 chain Lightning
    6 forces
    0 pierces or snares
    1 MD pyroblast (!!)
    10 cantrips

    18 normal lands + 2 canopy lands

    So this is more like a UR delver deck splashing green for Oko and the playstyle is much like grixis delver, in that you jam your threats and never hold up mana.
    The threat suite is very synergestic. Arcanist fueling pyromancer and pyromancer tokens turn Oko into a much better threat. This threatbase is super strong against 8-strix type of defence since you can afford to waste bolts on them ( to rebuy with arcanist) and pyromancer tokens are great vs strixes, removal and Oko. The redblast is there because you can use it as a counter then as a removal with arcanist. Vs non blue deck it's a dud but sometimes it makes an elemental.

    I do not play online though so this has mostly been tested on Skype. I feel strong versus most decks but still struggeling vs Snoko and in particular vs Uro and sideboard carpet of flowers. Both those cards are a menace to delver type decks IMO.

    About veil. I think you should have it in your board if you want a slot against decay-decks. Like as you say, to protect the Winter orb or your beater. That's the slot it's filling . Then can come in vs combo, in particular storm variants, but that's not why it's there. I think cages sounds good if you don't run arcanist. It's actually good vs TES too, since their plan A seem to be echo against delver.

    I am also a fan of the card blazing volley, especially in an Arcanist shell. It's such a blow out vs infect, DnT, empty the warrens and fine vs strix-decks.
    Last edited by JackaBo; 05-26-2020 at 02:32 AM.

  10. #2910
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @ Jackabo
    -I appreciate your reply. Hooting Mandrills is definitely my favorite among the various green beaters: Hooting Mandrills, Nimble Mongoose, Tarmogoyf and Hexdrinker. I certainly I think Hexdrinker is an interesting card, but I think it was best with Wrenn and Six where it was nice to have a huge mana sink.
    -Regarding, Dreadhorde Arcanist, I see the truth clearly now and that Dreadhorde is the future of Temur Delver. I spent some time pondering the various RUG Delver lists featuring Jegantha from the challenge on 5/23/20. At first they looked strange and weird to me. After much contemplation, it became clear to me that Temur is now like the Grixis decks of yore. Delver into Dreadhorde backed up by Oko and Klothys is a powerful core. RUG actually does have the tools to beat Snowko with a potent mixture of card advantage and tempo.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    2 Hooting Mandrills

    3 Oko, Thief of Crowns

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Chain Lightning

    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Force of Will

    4 Wasteland
    9 Fetch
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    Sideboard:
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Blazing Volley
    2 Return to Nature
    2 Klothys, God of Destiny
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 Jegantha, the Wellspring

    -Basically the core of Delver into Dreadhorde Arcanist, Oko and Klothys is going to be hard for Snowko players to keep up with. Speaking of which, can we talk about Klothys for a second? While I do think it belongs in the sideboard, this card is awesome. A Sulfuric Vortex that is indestructible, has a 4 point life swing, doesn't lower our own life total, interacts with the graveyard and can add mana if needed? Card is legit.
    -I'm not sure that Jegantha in the sideboard is needed. The deck has plenty of grinding power, a 5 mana 5/5 just isn't that exciting. Having the extra card is nice but I don't like telegraphing that Forces have been boarded out. However, you end up boarding in Tarmogoyfs against Snowko which as a two mana dumb beater isn't very exciting. A change I am considering in the sideboard is -2 Tarmogoyf, -1 Jegantha, +1 Sylvan Library, +2 Veil of Summer. However, Tarmogoyf can be good to board in against Tempo mirrors and random things like Eldrazi and Burn. I suppose that Jegantha might stick around after against a Snowko opponent after they have burned their removal on Tarmogoyf.
    -It's time to get excited, lads. The Temur Moon, which waned after the banning of Wrenn and Six, is waxing once again on the back of Dreadhorde, Oko and Klothys.
    Last edited by BKclassic; 05-26-2020 at 03:20 PM.
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  11. #2911
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I actually think Klothys deserves consideration for a slot in the main 60, I'd certainly run it over the 3rd Oko. The number of decks that utilize the graveyard in Legacy is so great that it's to the point now where Scavenging Ooze is also worth considering as the 5th Goyf.

    Thinking back several years, there was a time when this deck was adjusted so that it played primarily threats that were extremely hard to kill: Nimble Mongoose and 2-4 copies of True-Name Nemesis; often eschewing Tarmogoyf entirely. (Delver is just too good to cut despite being an easy target). This would make your opponent's standard removal spells dead, and I think this variant also ran some number of Winter Orb (2-3 copies typically) in the maindeck as a way of keeping the opponent in the early game phase of development.

    To attack the current glut of Snowko Control decks, I think you could either use that older approach, *or* overload your opponent by playing 4x Dreadhorde Arcanist (and then whatever mixture of threats alongside it). Playing 4 copies ensures that you'll be more likely to actually resolve one that you can manage to get into the red zone. Of course, going heavy on the Red spells makes one have to consider if the green splash is even worth it -- versus having the stability of being able to run basic Islands.

    Speaking of lands, with the increasing number of 3 drops, it seems that the 19th Land is not a bad idea for this deck. And depending on your configuration, this might be the 4th Tropical, the 4th Volcanic, or perhaps just another fetch land.

    However, another possible consideration is Ketria Triome. I think it being fetch-able is what sends this over the top from the UR and UG Horizon Canopy variants.

  12. #2912
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @wcm8
    -Regarding the shroud RUG variant, I do recall Jonathan Alexander playing a Delverless Mongoose/Mandrills/TNN/Winter Orb version designed to prey on Miracles decks with Sensei's Divining Top that were dominating the meta. I think there is probably a viable build of RUG that starts with 4 Delver, 4 Mongeese and 2 Klothys and 4 Stifle that would honestly suit my play style more than a Dreadhorde build. However, I think the Dreadhorde version is probably more powerful albeit more challenging to pilot so I'm working on that for now.
    -With regard to the Dreadhorde build, I'm pretty darn sure that 4 Dreadhorde and 3 Oko is where you want to be. The thing about Dreadhorde is that, unlike Tarmogoyf, Dreadhorde is worth having a Force of Will battle over. This is important because even if you lose the Force of Will battle, your opponent is going to be low on resources leaving them in a not great position to deal with Oko as the follow up. An opponent low on resources is where Oko really shines. So I definitely feel that we want to jam as many Oko's as we can in a 4 Dreadhorde build, which is why I play 3. Conversely, losing a Force of Will battle over Dreadhorde into Klothys seems much less lackluster as Klothys doesn't tend to dominate the board like Oko. I still think that Klothys could be a reasonable main deck inclusion although I'm just not seeing enough Snowko decks in the MTGO League metagame right now to warrant it's inclusion. I definitely agree that at least 19 lands are needed in the Dreadhorde build, I'm just running the 9th fetch for now.
    Last edited by BKclassic; 05-27-2020 at 03:34 PM.
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  13. #2913
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    If you feel that Dreadhorde is worth fighting over, you can run 1-2 main deck Force of Negation, as well as 1-2 Flusterstorm. These seem like the best options for not only ensuring you can resolve the card, but protect it as well.

    Another card to consider is 1-2 main deck Counterbalance.

    There are so many instances where all you need is just a turn to avoid 1-cmc removal spells, and with all of the filter the deck runs, it's not that hard to enable this. Plus, it just wins some games. If Counterbalance hits even just one spell over the course of the game, it's done its job; if it hits more and/or stops your opponent from doing anything for some number of turns, well... then it's practically like running Time Walk in your deck.

    It's always been a question of what mixture of counter magic to run, and some builds even considered running 1 copy of the good old Counterspell (which is perfectly reasonable, imho). A single maindeck Pyroblast isn't terrible either; in most situations it will have just as many targets as your Spell Snare or other narrow counter magic might have.

    I think you need to decide if you want Stifle or not. I'm not so sure that the 3-4 slots are worth it. I think you can just as easily just run 19 Lands, maybe 1 copy of Life from the Loam (or maybe even Carpet of Flowers in a blue-heavy metagame) and do fine against the majority of the format.

    My thinking is that being the aggressor is generally just better than hoping you draw the correct counter magic in the correct situations. Playing a 'counter-burn' style is likely to win more games than hoping to get lucky and Stifle your opponent out of the game. Chain Lightning and Forked Bolt are excellent choices, but I've also always been a fan of Fire // Ice in this deck thanks to its versatility -- and it being blue would be especially relevant if you decide to run Force of Negation on top of Force of Will.

    Another thing to perhaps consider is that new draw spell: Of One Mind. This is trivially easy to reduce to just a single , especially if you run Young Pyromancer (which seems like it'd be quite absurd alongside this card).

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