With Mono Blue Omni Tell probably going away in favor of UR Sneak and Show, does anyone think Delver can handle that and Miracles? I know whenever I have played against Miracles it just seems miserable because I can't Wasteland basics, it's hard to resolve anything in the deck if even a CB gets online, not to mention if a Top is in play as well.
Sneak and Show is a little slower and the Wastelands are ok but with their FoW backup and extra mana from Petal/Sol Lands, sometimes counters like Daze or Pierce just don't cut it. Turn out just waiting until turn 4 with 5 mana up still allows Grisel/Emrakul to win the game.
You can always put 2 Pithing Needle in your sideboard if you fear those matchups.Originally Posted by oSeabass
RUG always survived before; even dominated. It's decent against miracles since it packs Stifle/Goose so it can get the time needed to get there. It's decent against Sneak because it packs a sturdy number of counters and picks at the manabase with a fast clock.
I imagine RUG will move back to 2 Forked Bolt, X Spell Pierce/Snare, x something; Moms will be incoming in droves and Pierces or Snares will be good for the blue decks as usual. Pierce seems particularly good against S&T since it takes 5-6 mana to get through it; and I assume you've been wasting, stifling, and probably sitting on a dead Daze or Force.
Yea, as a matter of fact unless Sneak has a "god hand" I'm usually very confident in that MU (I'm running 3 pierces main). Miracles is my least favorite match up but still winnable.
My buddy and I went from Grixis Delver -> RUG Delver (me) and Omnitell -> Sneak (him). With Pyroblast/REB in the board, and the speed that RUG has, it's been pretty nasty for him. Sure he can sometimes have the nuts but I think RUG Delver is fine vs sneak.
What are your guys' thoughts on the BUG Delver matchup? SB plan/general gameplay plan?
I have been having pretty good luck vs BUG Delver with 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Spell Snare, and 2 Dismember as my flex. I went down to 1 Submerge in my sideboard to make more room for Miracles hate, but I haven't really felt the effects of it too much.
My boarding plan vs them:
In: 2 Pyroblast, 1 Submerge, 1 Rough
Out: 4 Force of Will
Edit: also 1 Life from the Loam for a Pierce or something.
I would board differently if they were on the Stifle (Hymnless) build, though I don't know why they would be.
Last edited by ironclad8690; 10-10-2015 at 03:14 PM.
Interesting, I'm running 2 Forked Bolt instead of Dismember. Do you like Dismember more? Meta call?
Rough vs BuG is to kill off DRS and unflipped delvers? Would you bring in rough vs Shardless for DRS/resolved agents?
i finally threw this list together for my local legacy and got destroyed by dredge and affinity... lol bad night
The idea behind playing Vendilion Clique there is that his combo is most vulnerable then. Essentially with only 2 lands out (sea and island) and playing the Dark Ritual that's when he's most bottlenecked on mana. Having played storm now something that I never thought of is how powerful it is to Vendilion Clique a ritual out of their hand. Since the deck uses Past In Flames taking a ritual is often back breaking if they're going to use that line. In addition to do the tutor chain lines you often need upwards of 3 rituals/artifact mana which means they probably only have one business spell. By playing Vendilion Clique in response to the first ritual you can take the important second ritual or their business spell and probably ruin their whole turn along with blanking the first ritual.
Another upside that I hadn't really thought of is that Vendilion Clique was known information at the time. If Storm is stuck on mana the turn they go off they'll use a ritual and then a discard spell with some black mana floating. It hadn't occurred to me at the time that he must have had Cabal Therapy to deal with Vendilion Clique or multiple business and mana spells to make it irrelevant. I actually think for him a better line may have been to lead on double Lion's Eye Diamond into Dark Ritual. I would have played Vendilion Clique in response to his Dark Ritual and he could have cracked his Lion's Eye Diamond:
2x LED + Dark Ritual = bbb + rrr + uuu storm 4 (counting vendilion Clique
Past in Flames b + uuu storm 5
Dark ritual bbb + uuu storm 6
Gitaxian Probe bbb + uuu storm 7
Ponder bbb + uu storm 8 (needing to rip any +1 mana source and he did have his land drop)
Dark Petition Storm 9 -> Tendrils of Agony GG
This actually makes it really interesting because now realizing that he knew about vendilion clique it almost seems dependent on his sequencing.
Yeah, basically I see Rough as just another way to deal with Deathrite Shaman. DRS living is so contrary to our mana denial plan, which I feel is the strongest way to attack BUG delver (keep off double black, keep off of 3 mana etc).
That makes sense. Aside from rituals everything else is sorcery speed, so that would be when he is most vulnerable.
How has everyone been liking snare? I'm playing a legacy event this weekend and might try it out. I've been on 3 pierce, 1 dismember, 2 forked as my flex slots. I night try 2/2 snare and pierce split with 2 forked. I just don't want to give up more pierces against SNT. I am on 3 pyroblast sideboard so maybe that can make up for it.
It's definitely one of my favorite counters aside from the stock Force/Daze/Stifle. It consistently does what it does no matter what stage of the game it is. I find this really useful because once you're ahead you can just hold it up and not have to worry about if it's still live. Against delver decks once you get a clock established you can counter Goyf/YP to stay uncontested on the ground. When you play against miracles mid to late game you counter Snapcaster/Counterbalance and the occasional counterspell. These are some of the most common, but also what I consider the most impactful reasons to consider playing it.
Went 4-2 at a 62 person seattle gpt. I got 17th place :( totally could have made it into top 8.
I was playing the stock 54 plus 1 dismember, 2 forked, 3 pierce. I'll try to write a report afyer work today.
I play a similar flex. I cut down to one fork bolt and 2 dismember instead. For my meta it's some what of a necessity, damn Maverick
What are your guys' SB plans in the RUG Delver mirror?
My flex are 2 pierce, 2 forked bolt, 2 spell snare
SB:
1 Grafdigger
1 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyroblast
2 Rough
2 Submerge
I bring in 2 Submerge, 2 Pyro, 1 Loam
Out 4 FoW 1 Daze. I'm thinking maybe Daze and a few forces stay in, and board out pierce instead?
My buddy brings Library in, for the mirror. Which seems really good if you can resolve it.
My plan:
+ 2 Submerge
+ 1 library
+ 2 pyro
+ 1 loam
- 2 pierce
- 4 fow
with 2 snare, maybe take 1 out.
Hey guys, I'm going to EE3 this weekend and it's the first time I'm playing Legacy since Eternal Weekend.
What you guys would recommend running in the 6 flex spots for an unknown meta in this post-DTT world? I was previously running 3x Pierce, 2x Dismember and 1x Forked Bolt due to a heavy Infect and Grixis Delver local meta.
SB plans are:
2x Flusterstorm
2x Submerge
2x Rough/Tumble
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Sulfur Elemental
1x Sylvan Library
1x Pithing Needle
1x Krosan Grip
1x Ancient Grudge
With omnitell no longer having the presence it once had, I think 3 pierce main is too much. I'd do a 2/2/2 split with forked/dismember/pierce. I personally split between forked/pierce/snare.
With: 2 fluster 2 pyro and 1 clique on sb.
2 spell pierce, 1 snare, 2/1 dismember/ forked bolt
Thanks for the advice. I agree that the 3 pierces are probably too much and will probably swap one to a snare.
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