Thats also true and I dont think 2 mana sorcery speed removal helps the game plan as you most probably tapp out or at least tapp low for it.
Regarding UR harvest pyre could be a possibility sadly its so bad with goose.
Harvest Pyre might actually work. I played Set Adrift before and Delve vs. Threshold was never an issue.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
I read this entire thread, and thank everyone who contributed. This my first post on this site. I am a huge fan of Legacy and particularly this deck. This my current deck list:
Main (60)
Creatures (12)
4x delver
4x nimble mongoose
4x tarmogoyf
Spells (30)
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x force of will
4x daze
4x stifle
4x spell pierce
4x lightning bolt
2x fire-ice
Land (18)
3x volcanic island
3x tropical island
4x wasteland
2x scalding tarn
2x polluted delta
2x misty rainforest
2x flooded strand
Sideboard (15)
2x submerge
2x pyroblast
2x grafdiggers cage
2x rough/tumble
2x spell snare
1x flusterstorm
1x surgical extraction
1x engineered explosives
1x ancient grudge
1x sylvan library
I have limited exposure to Legacy games, as my LGS does not have a big legacy base, I mainly play against reanimator, BUG Delver and occasional DnT. (If you guys know a good place to play near NYC/staten island/NJ let me know)
Up until recently, I was playing 3 ponders and maindecking a sylvan library, my the life loss was too much against aggro decks.
My main question is do you think dropping to 10 creatures to add extra removals, counterspells, or possibly git probes is a good idea? I see a lot of lists that run 2x Goyfs but seeing as creatures are out main win condition, im worried 10 may be a little light.
Thank you in advance for your time.
For starters I would not run 4 pierce without any dismembers. You need to have some outs to resolved tarmogoyfs/ zombie fishes the prior of which snare can hit along with a slew of other high priority targets. Snare also has longer staying power which is important when some match ups grind and you need a hard counter.Originally Posted by bl4ckwell
I read this entire thread, and thank everyone who contributed. This my first post on this site. I am a huge fan of Legacy and particularly this deck. This my current deck list:
Main (60)
Creatures (12)
4x delver
4x nimble mongoose
4x tarmogoyf
Spells (30)
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
4x force of will
4x daze
4x stifle
4x spell pierce
4x lightning bolt
2x fire-ice
Land (18)
3x volcanic island
3x tropical island
4x wasteland
2x scalding tarn
2x polluted delta
2x misty rainforest
2x flooded strand
Sideboard (15)
2x submerge
2x pyroblast
2x grafdiggers cage
2x rough/tumble
2x spell snare
1x flusterstorm
1x surgical extraction
1x engineered explosives
1x ancient grudge
1x sylvan library
I have limited exposure to Legacy games, as my LGS does not have a big legacy base, I mainly play against reanimator, BUG Delver and occasional DnT. (If you guys know a good place to play near NYC/staten island/NJ let me know
Up until recently, I was playing 3 ponders and maindecking a sylvan library, my the life loss was too much against aggro decks.
My main question is do you think dropping to 10 creatures to add extra removals, counterspells, or possibly git probes is a good idea? I see a lot of lists that run 2x Goyfs but seeing as creatures are out main win condition, im worried 10 may be a little light.
Thank you in advance for your time.
Never deviate from the 8 main cantrips. They're the bread and butter of your deck. Sylvan library isn't necessarily bad just slow and doesn't impact the board immediately which isn't good enough anymore. It kind of acts as another threat by being able to find more, but it still doesn't block or attack the turn after it enters.
I think git probe is fine as training wheels. I don't mean that to sound demeaning by any means. My point is it gives you invaluable information on how to play certain hands or what to look for. Even experienced players would win some more percentages if they had perfect info at the drop of a hat. It also allows you to see what's coming and get an idea of what to think critically about. Ie: oh miracles has counterbalance + force back up which means I can ponder into a threat but not play it this turn because I need daze + stifle live to beat their counterbalance.
Cutting threats for added counters/removal is somewhat dangerous. What happens is you upset a delicate balance of interactive cards. Some are good vs combo while others are dead and vice versa with other decks. Rules of thumb I would consider when deviating from the stock main 54:
Don't go over 6 main removal unless you know at your weekly (or whatever tournament) you will face lots of dnt/delver
If you want you to cut main threats have some Goyfs, tnns, grim or whatever in the board to make up in the match ups you want them (delver mirrors mainly).
If you go down to 10 threats be sure to evaluate bolt even more as a reach spell than removal and to conserve it. This goes along with your evaluating it alongside adismember you may have in hand. Things like daze jitte vs eldrazi to make them tap tomb can make your bolt cut an extra turn it two off your clock.
What do you guys think about the deck that made top 32 at GP Louisville? I'm wondering if taking out two goyfs for TNN is actually good or if it was done for budget reasons.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/542344#paper
it's a variant of RUG delver designed to be favored vs miracles. see https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...eshold-primer/
it's very strong and cleverly designed. i suggest you playtest it :)
I am going to stick with my 12 threats, I agree. I was switching back and forth between 2 extra spell pierce vs git probes. I think I will run 2 git probes.
I piloted close to the same list at that event. He's a friend of mine and created the list(MD grim, tnn, etc). It's really good. Grim and tnn were all stars winning me a set vs eldrazi and grixis. Getting paired against 4c loam (r3) and losing the die roll got me though since I had to daze a chalice otd and got wasted out. Then round 5 I got paired against big red again last the die roll and got combo-ed out.
Tough beats, you like the list, though? I suppose its match-up dependent?
I'm trying out 2 TNNs in Grixis and like it a lot, TNN is very well positioned right now, i feel like i win 90% of the games he sticks. In RUG, though, was the mana issue ever awkward?
What do you guys think of this 5-0 MTGO league list from Ordal?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/545296#online
Can Thought Scour actually support 4x Goose and 4x Hooting in the same list? Very interesting...
Yes i think 😃, that was an experiment anti-decay-fatal push deck. First list i builded make 5-0....there is a lot of work but agree with you..... is interesting
The list was great. Mine had a snare over third pierce and a second submerge over needle in the board. Honestly with orb needle just didn't seem necessary, but knowing Leovold would be big I thought the second submerge would be good. My match ups were
R1,2 byes
R3 aggro loam lose
R4 grixis delver win
R5 big red (blast canon whatever you want to call it) lose
R6 eldrazi win
R7 ur delver win
R8 ur delver lose
R9 dnt lose
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/266569
I don't think I could have done anything different in my losses vs aggro loam and big red. People will probably call me out on this and rightfully so. Just losing the die roll in either of those is back breaking. On top of that both games having to daze otd (T2 chalice, T2 trinisphere daze+pierce ssg for daze).
The chalice I could have force pitched tnn then played goyf the next turn. I thought about it but felt like getting tnn out and hoping to dodge waste was more relevant. Neither is a good line, but goyf gets dealt with too easily (decay, maze, kotr, Liliana etc). Either way I'm dead to loam lock I just have better odds if he doesn't have it with tnn than I do with goyf I think.
The big red match up is just bad otd. You can pick up game 2 easy, but being otd is so difficult. They can play around daze easily enough and go under everything except force.
Honestly I think ur delver is the hardest delver match up because you need pyroblast to deal with their storm chaser. Swiftspear easily eats goose and can eat goyf. They're a lot faster than us and I think that makes it more difficult than other drawn out attrition based delver matchups.
The dnt match up was interesting. I lost the first game then the second one I may have made a play mistake. I dazed a thalia (hard cast) over end step dismember it. The reasoning behind this is simple: cavern of souls. I've been punished by that card more than once trying to make better use of mana the next turn then daze when I have a threat out. Anyways immediately after that I top decked winter orb which made me feel stupid. Then the following turn he played another thalia kind of trapping me under my orb.
Orb definitely did what it was supposed to in that game. Despite getting trapped under it the line is good. Playing it there stops sfm or at least buys you time and requires them to have 2x land + sfm. It also sets back any three drop plan by 2 turns again if they have lands. Just drawing it after playing daze seemed really bad. Maybe I should have evaluated daze differently there because of orb in the board. I still don't think you can win that if daze rots in hand after that turn because of cavern.
Notes about some choice cards:
Grim lavamancer won me so many games. He was great vs grixis, eldrazi and ur delver. Never drew him against dnt unfortunately. He's really good right now. It gives you repeatable removal in delver mirrors which is all you want and let's you go over eldrazi threats. Him, delver and tnn work well together to make the eldrazi match up positive I think by letting you go over rather than have goose/ goyf getting stuck.
Tnn is really good as well. Mana never really was a problem except for getting wasted out by 4c loam. Without a snare/ pierce that game the outcome is the same with a goyf. It won me my MD game vs eldrazi which was sweet. I had delver into double tnn to just alpha strike before he got me.
Winter orb was great as always. After a lot of testing Patrick came to the conclusion it's just not good main. I pretty much agree with that. It's too volatile of a card that can be dead in match ups where literally any other card might let you win md (storm, delver, dnt this match up changes post board though). That aside it ate a thought knot seer which let me keep my dismember so that was good I guess. Bought me a lot of time against dnt (still lost to a flicker which ironically I could have dazed if I had dismembered earlier and I never saw a cavern). Even in Chiba the card was straight gas every time I drew it.
The list is extremely good. Special thanks to Patrick Tierney for making such a good list. I think right now I'm just upset with it because at least 2 of my sets felt die roll dependent more so than ever. Either way keep on keeping on with Canadian Threshold.
Cheers
Last edited by Contract Killer; 01-15-2017 at 04:09 PM.
So I got wrecked in the Legacy Challenge on Saturday (except that I didn't actually get wrecked). I played the same list as October, with Flusterstorm over Cage in the sideboard.
My matches:
2-0 Shardless
Just two games of playing patiently, wrecking my opponents mana and going to town with Mongoose.
2-0 Grixis Delver
My opponent mulled to five on the play G1, didn't have a land drop, forced my T1 Delver, I had Daze or Force, they conceeded. G2 I did Delver mirror things.
1-2 Team America
I lost G1 to something, won a G2 from very far behind, then lost a close G3.
1-2 Storm
I won G1 thanks to Orb, Stifle & Waste. G2 was somewhat interesting. My opponent took at least one mulligan, fetched Island T1, cast Ponder and shuffled. I put them on a slow hand due to that, so I went with T1 Delver over Ponder, having only Daze backup. My opponent then made 12 Goblins T2. G3 I had Daze, Force, Snare, my opponent killed me T3 with Therapy, Tutor, Past in Flames and a million mana.
1-2 Aluren
G1 I was very low on business; in my top 20 cards I had two Delvers and one Brainstorm, no other creatures nor cantrips. My opponent had double Decay and killed me at some point. G2 I went Canadian Threshold on them. G3 I don't think I did anything.
1-2 4C Delver
We split the first two games, then I messed up G3 after my opponent had triple Daze. They were on ten life with Deathrite and Strix, I was on four with Bolt in hand and Mongoose plus True-Name on the board. For some reason I didn't attack with Mongoose here and Strix killed me with my opponent on one.
Overall, I thought I played really well, probably the best since Prague. The list was alright, but maybe it needs some changing. I like most of what it does against the various Deathrite Force decks, although I'm not 100% sold on all my boarding plans, especially Team Amreica might need some adjustments. I was considering running a Ghost Quarter in the sideboard for the Delver mirrors, so there's something to try out. Maybe the sideboard Tarmogoyf can become Hooting Mandrils or something with Eldrazi on the decline, although I'm not sure how much I like that against Grixis.
Interestingly, even though I went 2-3 in matches against the Sultai decks, I was up a game with a 7-6 record.
I still think the deck is well positioned, but not facing Miracles isn't cool. Not like I have many cards specifically for the matchup (really only the third Orb), but it is a very good one that I like playing. Miracles hasn't really reacted to the current metagame though, so until they do, it might be better to play UR Delver (which is stupid because I played UR last month and Canadian would've been way better).
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
What are your thoughts on cutting the Dazes from the list?
Cutting daze... you're trolling right? I don't think anyone can take this comment seriously.
I wrote a little something about a few situations of playing Canadian vs. various Deathrite Shaman decks: #theweeklywars #16 — Canadian Threshold vs. Deathrite Shaman
Let me know if you'd like to see more content of this type. I would not mind doing this for a couple more matchups.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
you should check the list in question: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/545296#online
it already doesn't have daze. he is asking how it worked out
Really enjoyed this article. I haven't played canadian in over a year now since I didn't like the positioning of the deck, but perhaps I was wrong about that- you seem very confident it is still well positioned.
The list is interesting but seems highly irrelevant to the thread.
My decklist wasnt tempo deck....
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