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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2581

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BeetsandOlives View Post
    If your line of reasoning was one more agreed upon, more decks would run Probe and Mishra's/Urza's Bauble, but most decks don't because of the need to run cards with actual relevant text.
    I’d rather play Urza’s Bauble than Gitaxian Probe. It at least feeds Tarmogoyf with a less common card type…

  2. #2582

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    Kiwi, are you supportive of Gitaxian Probe or no? I was having a hard time determining your stance on the matter from your posts.
    I don't think probe is good in RUG. I don't think the benefits you get out of it outweigh the life loss. This is the main drawback to the card (the life loss). I have identified other minor drawbacks in my previous post. To reiterate:
    - Bad against chalice (but only if you were going to replace it with non-CMC-1 cards)
    - Bad against Thalia/Thorn (But so are all other cantrips/cheap spells)
    - Makes mulligans slightly more awkward by being a random cantrip

    If you removed the life loss from probe (so it can be cast for either {U} or {0}) then I think that the benefits of Probe would now outweigh these drawbacks, I would immediately start testing 4 and I would be surprised if that was wrong.

    This person seems to think there is some other drawback associated with putting free cantrips in your deck.

    @BeetsandOlives Even if the math on your Bolt probability calculation is correct (I could check it myself but I have no reason to assume that it is wrong), and it turns out that now you win fewer games because you see removal spells less often, then you can cut other cards for the probes instead. Maybe it's correct to cut 1 Force of Will, or maybe 1 Stifle, as Ondrej has done. The point is that there is some optimal build with 4 SuperProbes in it that would likely have a higher win% than a build without them

    To reiterate:
    Nobody ever considers playing more than 60 cards; people always play the minimum number of cards they are allowed.
    Why would you not play less than 60 then, if permitted? How have you arrived at the conclusion that 60 is this magic perfect number? The only legitimate argument to not to jam 4 super-probe in the deck is the 'harder mulligans' point, and I think this is outweighed by the benefits of adding to threshold, giving info, and letting you see your best cards more often.

    Remember the controversy years ago about including fetches in every deck because of the argument that thinning the deck of lands enables you to draw over action over the course of a game? Including Probe purely to thin your deck in this fashion is reminiscent.
    If your line of reasoning was one more agreed upon, more decks would run Probe and Mishra's/Urza's Bauble, but most decks don't because of the need to run cards with actual relevant text.
    - Fetches cost life and make you weak against Stifle.
    - Baubles are a free cantrip, sure, but with suspend 1, which is important
    - Actual-Probe DOES cost life in order to cycle it for free

    I'll say it one more time because apparently I wasn't clear enough:

    REAL Gitaxian Probe, the tournament legal one, the one from New Phyrexia, that costs {U} or 2 life, is NOT good in RUG. (In my opinion). The important drawback of this card is having to pay 2 life to cycle it. If you were allowed to cast this card for {0}, I think that it would be correct to play 4 of it. I can't say with confidence what the optimal ratio of other cards would be, in this hypothetical deck, but I think that it would have a higher win% overall than a deck without SuperProbe.

    When you draw an opening hand with probe its difficult for it to be evaluated - since you don't know what you'll draw off the probe (even discounting the fact that you'll pay 2 life). With 56 cards, you can build your decks manabase and creature count around that. With 60 cards and 4 "cycle spells", you still have to design your deck with 60 cards in mind, as you may not draw the "cyclers".
    The first part is correct, as I have noted, I just don't believe it is significant (especially for this deck).
    The second part (the bolded bit) is just wrong / doesn't make any sense. If you were 100% guaranteed to never ever draw your 4-of probe then for all intents and purposes your 'deck' would just be the other 56 cards

  3. #2583

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Just to pitch in my two cents on the Probe argument, I too have never really liked it, especially as a four-of, where it is obvious in its lacklustreness as a late-game draw. To me this is due to the fundamental difference between RUG and other Delver decks in that RUG is purely reactive, while Grixis/BUG have always had proactive, tap-out components. For example, with Grixis, you have a proactive element in that you want to play Pyromancer then cast cantrips/Therapies/Probes etc etc etc. and this disrupts/beats your opponent.

    Meanwhile, with RUG, since our deck is padded with less threats and more Stifle/Snare/Pierce we want to strengthen this reactive plan. This will usually mean Brainstorming in response to many things the opponent is doing and having Probe in the deck means that rather than hitting business, we find sorcery speed cantrips that are useless at that point some percentage of time. I do not think this is worth the information and Threshold-filling. Probe is very good played in the first or second turn for RUG, as a "training wheels" card to know when and where to hold up reactive spells, but past that it directly interferes with our primary game plan in certain scenarios, particularly when cantripping, and this I cannot be a fan of.

  4. #2584

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    Brainstorming in response to many things the opponent is doing and having Probe in the deck means that rather than hitting business, we find sorcery speed cantrips that are useless
    That is another decent point that nobody has mentioned yet

    There can also be a similar awkward situation when you Ponder looking for something specific and see Probe in the top 3.

    These points make it less likely that Probe would be correct even if it was totally free (but have nothing to do with the deck-thinning argument)

  5. #2585

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The second part (the bolded bit) is just wrong / doesn't make any sense. If you were 100% guaranteed to never ever draw your 4-of probe then for all intents and purposes your 'deck' would just be the other 56 cards
    Last thing I'll say on the matter, then we can move on- what I mean is that you (for example) could not start cutting lands if you slot 4 probes in the deck - because if 18 lands is an optimal configuration for 60 cards, then probably <18 lands is the optimal configuration for 56.

  6. #2586

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    Last thing I'll say on the matter, then we can move on- what I mean is that you (for example) could not start cutting lands if you slot 4 probes in the deck - because if 18 lands is an optimal configuration for 60 cards, then probably <18 lands is the optimal configuration for 56.
    "You can't cut lands, because it would be optimal to be playing fewer lands"
    ??? [Unless this is just the mulligan point again]

  7. #2587

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    "You can't cut lands, because it would be optimal to be playing fewer lands"
    ??? [Unless this is just the mulligan point again]
    Its similar to the mulligan point.

    If you were truly playing 56 cards deck construction would change. But it doesn't matter how "free" a cantrip is, when you physically need 60 cards.

  8. #2588

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I am happy you are having this discussion as I have been thinking a lot about probe in Canadian.

    First off a bit about me: I am pretty new to legacy, I started playing just around after the dig through time ban.
    I started off with food chain, Eli Cassis style, then went through the evolution of playing Leovold and eventually Ballista, then watching the deck deterorate as delver decks became more prominent.
    After that I started playing mirale and canadian for the latter half of 2017 and transitioned to Grixis delver in the beginning of 2018.
    I play only in paper at the local legacy League (4 rounds once a week) and the occational paper-tournaments. The League also comes with a final at the end of each semester. I have qualified to the finals the last three times, and I believe I am a fairly good player.

    My experiences from Grixis is that Git probe is very busted, even without therapy in the main deck (I run the Bob Huang 60 MD).
    I also Think that Git Probe is exactly the card Canadian need, and I'll tell you why i think so.

    RUG Delver is a hold-up-mana-deck. Much more so than grixis. Many spells (pierce, snare and the mighty stifle) require you to hold up mana during opponents turn.
    The effects of these sells are very strong if cast at the right time, but near useless if you miss the opportunity to play them.
    Becasue of this, it's common that you can not tap out turn 2 on the play or even T1 on the draw (unless you have a daze).

    Now, RUG is a very lean deck and makes do with only 14 coloured lands. This is only possible with the Power of 8 cantrips. The problem is that a lot of the time you will draw an opening seven that only consists of 1 coloured mana. That hand is usually a keep if it contains a creature and some interaction.
    So once you've deployed you turn 1 threat, unless you draw a land what will you do? If you're holding stifle, snare or pierce, do you dare to play ponder for Another land? If not, and they don't play into your spells, what do you do? Sometimes you can bainstorm at end of turm, but if you're holding stifle and they played a fetch you can't even afford to tap out for brainstorm at EOT.
    Holding up mana for a potential play, then not playing it is a huge tempo loss in any deck but in a deck like this in particular. You want to speed through your deck to achieve threshold fast, right?

    So this problem with one manan reactive spells and very few lands may sounds like very fringe corner-case sitautions, but from my experience it happens.. alot.

    This is were probe shines. For one it virutally increases the land count, thus increasing the chance of a turn 2 landdrop without requiring you to tap out for ponder turn 2.
    Second it gives info on wether there are juicy targets for stifle, snare and pierce and wether you need to hold up mana for them.

    What else does it do? Yes, it decreases the power of your other cantrips, as it's more common to see air than the spells you are searching for.
    However it can also make your bad cantrips better. If you have brainstorm locked yourself you are faster out of it if you have a probe in there. It also increases the chances of drawing your spells and cantrips as you virtually decreases the deck size. Except for th cards that you cut to make room for Probe. You also will draw more lands with 4 probes. This puts heavier strain on your brainstorms to be played optimally. In a meta with lots of wastelands having a virtual higher landcount is actually good thing.
    Finally its a liability versus burn.dec and in a sense against leovold decks.

    So to the hard part, what to cut. 2 of the slots come from the creaturs, right. 10 creatures is good enough and if you play Mandrils (which you should with probe) that you already run 10 threats is my guess.
    Then the two last slots, either you cut one removal and one 1 mana counterspell (snare?) or you cut two counterspells (both snares?).
    This means that your counter suite will be a little weaker but that you will draw fow and daze more often. With "more" fow and daze maybe it's ok to shave the maindeck dismember?
    You will also draw your stifles and wastelands more often with 4 probes, so your 2 pierces and 4 Dazes will get slightly stronger.

    In short; git probe
    >Increases your chance of getting your crucial second landdrop
    >It gives you intel on when to hold up your pierce/stifle and when to tap out for cantrips and threats
    >It will increase the density of some of your best cards (at the cost of some of the more situational cards)
    >It will help you achive threshold faster

  9. #2589

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    I believe I am a fairly good player.
    So once you've deployed you turn 1 threat, unless you draw a land what will you do? .... Sometimes you can bainstorm at end of turm,
    @rlesko you're still not making any sense to me

  10. #2590

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Does anyone know what happened to thegraymerchants.com? I want to access the #RUGLyf primer but it seems like the site is down.

  11. #2591

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hi, any results/reports from fellow RUG players at the GP?

  12. #2592

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by ptahetep View Post
    Hi, any results/reports from fellow RUG players at the GP?
    Hey there, this was my first big Legacy event and also the first time I've ever played with RUG Delver. I've been following the forum for awhile but I guess now is a better time than ever to finally post.

    My list:
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Stifle
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Tarfire
    1 Dismember
    2 Spell Peirce
    1 Thought Scour

    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Tropical Island

    Sideboard
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Winter Orb
    1 Abrade
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Rough/Tumble
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Dismember
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    Being that it was my first time playing the deck, I wasn't expecting amazing results but was somewhat pleased to finish 4-3-1. Match-ups were Lands (L), 4c Stoneblade (D), Grixis Delver (W), Grixis Delver (W), Grixis Delver (W), Death and Taxes (W), Eldrazi (L), Aluren (L). The Tarfires were great for me, it's hard to worry about Gurmag Angler when your Tarmogoyfs are just bigger. Thought Scour was good for filling up the yard fast and being able to cantrip in the end step when I may have been holding up Stifle/Pierce/etc. One thing to note is that I boarded in TNN in 7 of my 8 rounds, so slotting one or two into the main deck would be a strong consideration in the future.

  13. #2593

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I played RUG Delver to a 12-3 finish this weekend at GP Seattle, getting my 3rd loss on camera vs Maverick in round 14 in a pretty unexciting fashion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxGZ....be&t=6h55m18s.

    Here's the list:

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Predict
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Dismember
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Dead/Gone

    1 Dismember
    1 Dead/Gone
    2 Abrade
    1 Destructive Revelry
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Predict
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Leyline of the Void

    Some notes on the list:
    - 7 one-mana removals is a must in a world ruled by Deathrite Shaman
    - Mandrils proved to be better than Goyf, I only missed goyfs vs Eldrazi. Opponents tended to forget about trample a lot
    - I found Predict to be quite good in most of the matchups. I can't see how can the deck support running 2 in the maindeck though
    - It was a first time me playing with only 3 Stifles and it actually felt correct
    - 1-of Leyline is nice at stealing games here and there
    - I really missed more ways to combat Anglers and other big creatures like Knight of the Reliquary and Reality Smasher, but we absolutely cannot run more than 2 Dismembers. The question is how can we fit something like Roast in the sideboard

    This is how my matches went:
    - 3-1 vs. Grixis Delver
    - 1-0 vs. Czech Pile piloted by Brad Nelson
    - 1-0 vs. Miracles
    - 1-0 vs. Death and Taxes
    - 1-0 vs. Moon Stompy
    - 0-1 vs. Eldrazi
    - 1-0 vs. BR Reanimator
    - 1-0 vs. Burn
    - 0-1 vs. Maverick
    - 1-0 vs. Aluren
    - 1-0 vs. Chalice Affinity

    The deck felt extremely good all weekend long. I think it is a better choice comparing to Grixis Delver, especially if both Czech Pile and Miracles remain popular. I'd be happy to discuss my card choices and the matchups vision

  14. #2594

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm surprised that you say you preferred Mandrills over Goyf based on the matchups you faced:

    - 3-1 vs. Grixis Delver (Goyf better, unless you highly rate Trample vs Pyromancer)
    - 1-0 vs. Czech Pile piloted by Brad Nelson (Mandrills better for Push protection & Trample over TNNs)
    - 1-0 vs. Miracles (Not much difference, Mandrills slightly better)
    - 1-0 vs. Death and Taxes (Debatable, see the last 1-2 pages, most people seem to think Goyf is better)
    - 1-0 vs. Moon Stompy (Goyf better)
    - 0-1 vs. Eldrazi (Goyf better)
    - 1-0 vs. BR Reanimator (Not much difference, Tarmogoyf slightly better)
    - 1-0 vs. Burn (Goyf better)
    - 0-1 vs. Maverick (Mandrills possibly better, unsure)
    - 1-0 vs. Aluren (Mandrills probably better for not dying to decay, trample over value creatures and possible flash/bounce Harpy nonsense)
    - 1-0 vs. Chalice Affinity (Goyf better)

    also:
    Mandrils proved to be better than Goyf
    I really missed more ways to combat Anglers and other big creatures
    I will try 1 Predict instead of the maindeck Preordain I have been using

  15. #2595

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Regarding Mandrills vs Goyf in the matchups I faced, goyfs are significantly better only versus Eldrazi and Burn. Against Grixis delver it is more or less even, mandrills is much easier to play around daze and trample is also very relevant. In testing, mandrills were way better against combo decks (1 mana vs 2 mana is huge), elves (due to trample) and czech pile (cannot be killed by push/decay), that what made me play them.

  16. #2596

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammonth View Post
    I played RUG Delver to a 12-3 finish this weekend at GP Seattle, getting my 3rd loss on camera vs Maverick in round 14 in a pretty unexciting fashion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxGZ....be&t=6h55m18s.

    Here's the list:

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Predict
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Dismember
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Dead/Gone

    1 Dismember
    1 Dead/Gone
    2 Abrade
    1 Destructive Revelry
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Predict
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Leyline of the Void

    Some notes on the list:
    - 7 one-mana removals is a must in a world ruled by Deathrite Shaman
    - Mandrils proved to be better than Goyf, I only missed goyfs vs Eldrazi. Opponents tended to forget about trample a lot
    - I found Predict to be quite good in most of the matchups. I can't see how can the deck support running 2 in the maindeck though
    - It was a first time me playing with only 3 Stifles and it actually felt correct
    - 1-of Leyline is nice at stealing games here and there
    - I really missed more ways to combat Anglers and other big creatures like Knight of the Reliquary and Reality Smasher, but we absolutely cannot run more than 2 Dismembers. The question is how can we fit something like Roast in the sideboard

    This is how my matches went:
    - 3-1 vs. Grixis Delver
    - 1-0 vs. Czech Pile piloted by Brad Nelson
    - 1-0 vs. Miracles
    - 1-0 vs. Death and Taxes
    - 1-0 vs. Moon Stompy
    - 0-1 vs. Eldrazi
    - 1-0 vs. BR Reanimator
    - 1-0 vs. Burn
    - 0-1 vs. Maverick
    - 1-0 vs. Aluren
    - 1-0 vs. Chalice Affinity

    The deck felt extremely good all weekend long. I think it is a better choice comparing to Grixis Delver, especially if both Czech Pile and Miracles remain popular. I'd be happy to discuss my card choices and the matchups vision

    First, congratulations! You did a good job there.. I like you list, but 1 LEYLINE OF THE VOID? Really? Tell me about it, I am really disturbed.

  17. #2597

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mammonth View Post
    I played RUG Delver to a 12-3 finish this weekend at GP Seattle, getting my 3rd loss on camera vs Maverick in round 14 in a pretty unexciting fashion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxGZ....be&t=6h55m18s.

    Here's the list:

    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    1 Predict
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    3 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Dismember
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Dead/Gone

    1 Dismember
    1 Dead/Gone
    2 Abrade
    1 Destructive Revelry
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Invasive Surgery
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Predict
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Leyline of the Void

    Some notes on the list:
    - 7 one-mana removals is a must in a world ruled by Deathrite Shaman
    - Mandrils proved to be better than Goyf, I only missed goyfs vs Eldrazi. Opponents tended to forget about trample a lot
    - I found Predict to be quite good in most of the matchups. I can't see how can the deck support running 2 in the maindeck though
    - It was a first time me playing with only 3 Stifles and it actually felt correct
    - 1-of Leyline is nice at stealing games here and there
    - I really missed more ways to combat Anglers and other big creatures like Knight of the Reliquary and Reality Smasher, but we absolutely cannot run more than 2 Dismembers. The question is how can we fit something like Roast in the sideboard

    This is how my matches went:
    - 3-1 vs. Grixis Delver
    - 1-0 vs. Czech Pile piloted by Brad Nelson
    - 1-0 vs. Miracles
    - 1-0 vs. Death and Taxes
    - 1-0 vs. Moon Stompy
    - 0-1 vs. Eldrazi
    - 1-0 vs. BR Reanimator
    - 1-0 vs. Burn
    - 0-1 vs. Maverick
    - 1-0 vs. Aluren
    - 1-0 vs. Chalice Affinity

    The deck felt extremely good all weekend long. I think it is a better choice comparing to Grixis Delver, especially if both Czech Pile and Miracles remain popular. I'd be happy to discuss my card choices and the matchups vision
    Congrats on the finish, always good to see Canadian top the big events.

    I'd like to know more about Predict and how you typically set it up. In the feature against Maverick it was stuck in your hand the whole game, which is one of the big fears that I have of the card. How often did you find yourself cycling it blind? Are you supposed to ever? In what matchups do you go up to two? Cheers.

  18. #2598

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiago View Post
    First, congratulations! You did a good job there.. I like you list, but 1 LEYLINE OF THE VOID? Really? Tell me about it, I am really disturbed.
    Great job! Congrats on the finish! I am also curious about the single leyline. How aggressive do you go for it when you do? Thanks


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #2599

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Long time lurker, but have been playing the deck since 2016.

    Went 10-0-2 in Legacy challenges this weekend at the Milwaukee Open.

    The two draws were with friends I rode up with. (Stoneblade and Sneak and Show)

    I can go into detail of overall gameplan / decklist for those interested, but here's what I faced:

    Challenge 1:
    Elves 2 - 0
    Charbelcher 2 - 0
    Grixis Delver 2 - 0
    Friend on SnS - ID

    Challenge 2:
    DnT 2 - 0
    BR Reanimator 2 - 1
    Tin Fins 2 - 0
    Aggro Loam 2 - 0

    Challenge 3:
    BR Reanimator 2 -1
    Grixis Reanimator 2 - 0
    Czech Pile 2 - 0
    Friend on Stoneblade ID

    Overall I made some tight plays and Ground Seal was an amazing SB card this weekend. Being more patient with BS and Ponder has gone a long way in improving my win rate, lol.
    Last edited by GoatLust; 04-09-2018 at 08:11 PM.

  20. #2600

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    One Leyline is pretty good, it gives you free wins vs Reanimator and Dredge more often than not. At GP, I kept a hand with no lands but with a leyline on the draw and won easily. The thing is that against reanimator on the draw even surgicals don't work sometimes, and Leyline locks them out of the game. I think it is better than 3rd Surgical or Grafdigger's Cage. However, I would not play less than 3 gravehate cards in SB

    I play blind Predict about 25% of the time, mostly to fill graveyard for goose and mandrills. It is not hard to set it up, slowrolling it is usually a good plan unless we need to draw an out to something asap. It requires slightly different fetchland cracking strategy, e.g. when I side second Predict in, I tend to crack fetchland to have 2 duals before playing brainstorms/ponders

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