[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[BKclassic]

Please play Graffdigger's Cage as grave hate instead of Surgical. It definitely adds a few percentage points towards our elves matchup which should make it an easy choice. It's probably also better against Reanimator since you can drop it early instead of having it in your hand waiting to be discarded. It's also infinitely better against Dredge since they actually have to answer it instead of playing through or around it.
Is Gitaxian Probe better than an extra counter spell and removal spell? I mean, I get that it's good and all, but to me it doesn't seem worth it at all and I probably will never play them in RUG.

If that's directed at me, I run Surgical Extraction and Grafdigger's Cage. I certainly wouldn't run any Surgical Extractions before playing 2 Grafdigger's Cage. I certainly don't care if you play Gitaxian Probe, but running an excess of burn spells is an issue against combo and Miracles and lack of burn spells is an issue against creature decks. Probe is the best cantrip after Brainstorm and Ponder so that is why I play them, I would probably run Spell Snare and then Thought Scour if Probe wasn't an option. Many people seem to like Spell Snare, but I am not a fan since it is only good when your opponent is playing 2cc spells, the rest of our counterspells are typically good at all stages of the game, I don't think we can afford a counterspell as narrow as Spell Snare.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Spell Snare is a card that is good at all stages of game. Daze isn't. And there will be turns 5+ when you'll need to counter SFM, CB, IT or Goyf.
Not that Snare is necessary, and esp. in 8Bolts version one may not play it. But it's not like the card is dead becasue of game stage, it's dead becasue of the lacking targets.

[Purgatory]

Spell Snare is a card that is good at all stages of game. Daze isn't. And there will be turns 5+ when you'll need to counter SFM, CB, IT or Goyf.
Not that Snare is necessary, and esp. in 8Bolts version one may not play it. But it's not like the card is dead becasue of game stage, it's dead becasue of the lacking targets.

I prefer Dismember over Spell Snare, as a miser's one-of at least, due to its higher flexibility.

[Mystic Snake]

Well those 4 flexible spells are here to adapt to each local meta.
I do not think there is a point of arguing there.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[sawatarix]

Currently running a list without stifle but 4 spell pierce and 3 spell snare and an overload on burn,
Quite successful to be honest :-)
An important point is to run misty rainforest and scalding tarn to represent stifle


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Currently running a list without stifle but 4 spell pierce and 3 spell snare and an overload on burn,
Quite successful to be honest :-)
An important point is to run misty rainforest and scalding tarn to represent stifle


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Good job! I'm interested in results! And the exact list, ofc.

[ShiftyKapree]

Currently running a list without stifle but 4 spell pierce and 3 spell snare and an overload on burn,
Quite successful to be honest :-)
An important point is to run misty rainforest and scalding tarn to represent stifle


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

I too thought about cutting stifle, care to ship us a list or inbox me it?

[sawatarix]

Here it is - the new beauty:

"Canadian ******** by Kai Thiele" (may 2014)

Creatures:12
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Tarmogoyf

Spells:30
4 Brainstorm
2 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will

Lands:18
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
2 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Sulfur Elemental
3 Submerge

I played the deck the last couple of days/weeks and what should i say- it's brilliant ! :)
Most of the time people play around stifle and then loose to 4 copies of spell pierce,snare and 7 removal spells.
Snapcaster is great in the deck to flashback all the sweet spells again,better than thr 4th goyf i think.
Could also be a sylvan library or a true-name nemesis but i'll stay with snapcaster,having a flash-surprise-tool is great to have against any kind of deck.





- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[Tormod]

2 months later you finally agree with cutting stifle. Nice!

[Bravosi]

I'm a bit confused. Playing 4 bolts and 2 forked bolts does not seem to be an "overload on burn".

[trollking21]

So I've been playing with a singleton True-name in the main deck and an additional copy on the sideboard, and it's helped me tremendously in the miracles matchup as well as against jund and Shardless bug. Over the last 200 games or so on cockatrice, I've found it to be a way to help close out fair match ups without losing much to combo.

List for reference
54 can thresh (with stifle)
2 forked bolt
1 spell snare
2 spell pierce
1 true-name

Sideboard
1 True-name
1 clique
1 sulfur elemental

1 pyroblast
1 red elemental blast
1 flusterstorm
1 artifact mutation
1 ancient grudge
1 krosan grip
2 surgical extraction
2 submerge
2 rough

[sawatarix]

@Bravosi:
First i played 7 burn spells (4 bolts and 3 chains) but the current metagame demands 2 forked bolts and 1 dismember so i switched.




- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[poxy14]

2nd last saturday with RUG.. minitourney 12man.
won packs, this time i got lucky! brimaz and a foil master of the feast in the 5packs i won : )

lands
7/7/4 split - 4volcs and 3 trops..
4/3/3/2 - delver, goose, goyf, tnn
2 tarfires/ 1 snare/2pierces/1 izzet so i could still flushout unnecesary lands in my hand when i have enuff on the board

beat 2 combos, 1 esperblade...
lost finals (vs patriot) after winning game 1 and not having a lone crit game 3, thus he recovered by pondering, shuffling and drawing 2 tnns...ive exhausted all my rebs destroying delvers, a lone goose or tnn couldve been the difference as i was ahead of lands early but he has lots of time to recover without me presenting a goodclock.

tarfires are solid as i was able to burn sfms eot, then i could freely cast my own tnn when i reach third land..
one time i mulled to 5 vs esper, and was able still to recover..im confident i have more true lands inside the main...i also played a 1 lander vs patriot game1 i won, was confident with my cantrips theyll give me the land i need...

game 2 vs patriot, when i was ahead of life...he managed to sneak in a tnn, suddenly the game changed..when i had 2 geese..he only had delver..if it was a tnn, i couldve been a W for me...

with lots of tnn in the meta, i really cant rely on goose/goyf...just 1 tnn, just 1 and itll be hard for us.
carrying my own tnns, will surely make my midrange matchup a lot better..

replaced the 3submerge to a 2nd snare....its doin great so far
and ive been seeing less goyfs lately, so the tarfires are a good inclusion in the main

well, ive seen 3 RUG in today's SCG Open top 16 ... different builts though : )

[cheerios]

4 probe RUG!! Gitaxian probe is really addicting.

Cheers

[BKclassic]

I played in two MODO daily’s this weekend. I had planned on testing Dismember this weekend but I jammed a few games with Dismember during the week and I keep finding the life loss to be a problem, especially since Deathrite Shaman gives many decks extra reach. Its fine if it is in your opening hand, but it can be real dud in our mid to late game. Combined with the lack of applicability to combo decks, I am back on Tarfires. So I ran a 2 Tarfire/2 Pierce/ 2 Probe build with the 2 Submerge/2 REB/2 Pierce/2 Rough/2 Destructive Revelry/2 Surgical Extraction/2 Grafdigger’s Cage/1 Pithing Needle SB.

Here is how the tournaments went:

#1
Round 1: Merfolks 2-0
Round 2: UR Delver 2-0
Round 3: ANT 2-0
Round 4: Shardless BUG 2-1

#2
Round 1: Death and Taxes 2-0
Round 2: Ur Swans w/ Blood Moon 2-0
Round 3: Miracles (Joe Losset) 0-2
Round 4: Junk (Deathrite/Stoneforge/Confidant/Abrupt Decay/Hymn/Liliana/Lingering Souls) 0-2

Thoughts:
-Steamrolling the first tournament was pretty easy. The key for me to winning in the TNN meta has been figuring how to better utilize Force of Will, particularly against other Blue decks. I’ve done this mostly by watching Jacob Wilson videos and analyzing replays of matches that I lost on MODO, but what you want to be doing is aggressively FoW’ing your opponents spells to maintain our Phase II game plan (when you need to). Phase I decks being decks that get ‘under’ us (TES/Belcher), and Phase III decks revolving around mid-game cards we lose to (TNN/Batterskull/Counterbalance). In game 1 against Merfolks, for instance, I was on a Delver draw where my hand was Force, Ponder and a bunch of burn spells. He played a Lord and went to attack with Cosi’s Trickster, I burn the Lord in response, my opponent FoWs back. Historically, I wouldn’t have bothered FoW’ing back since I had more Burn spells and I wouldn’t want to two for one myself when I didn’t have to. However, outpacing your opponents is the way to win with RUG, and you definitely do want to FoW in this situation. This is sort of an obvious example, if your opponent is FoW’ing something and you have the option of FoW’ing back, you would need a very good reason not to. The point stands though, using FoW to outpace your opponents is key.

-Tarfire was pretty good for me. It helped me get in for exact damage (with a Tarmgoyf in play so it got in an extra point of damage thanks to tribal) against ANT and the Swans deck. The instant speed was useful against Merfolks and Death and Taxes. I am still thinking about going back to Forked Bolt though. One thing about Death and Taxes is that Spirit of the Labyrinth is a very good upgrade since it can block and kill Nimble Mongoose, where not many of their creatures could before. Spirit has a weakness to Forked Bolt and a F. Bolt plus Stifle on Mother of Runes can really put you ahead in that match up. Also, Elves has been honed into a much better deck, and another 2 for 1 in that match up certainly wouldn’t hurt. My Round 4 opponent in tournament #2 was playing a brutal deck, where if you don’t answer his threats perfectly, he will get you with one of his phase III cards. Forked Bolt would have helped against Lingering Souls, also picking off Dark Confidant and keeping Liliana at bay for one more turn can be pretty good. However, the instant speed often matters more or they have a Wirewood Symbiote in play, so I am still not sure what I am doing for my additional burn spells.

-Do you guys Force of Will Sensei’s Divining Top against Miracles? My old plan against Miracles was to let Top resolve since it uses up their mana and fight over Counterbalance. However, I am thinking that FoW’ing Top helps keep the game in Phase II and is therefore where I want to be. I will need to figure out a way to up my game to beat the mighty Oarsmen. Possibly the 2nd Surgical Extraction is greedy and could be a Sulfuric Vortex or something, but I really like Surgicals against combo and I already have 7 spells to bring in against Miracles. I would like to just do a better job of executing a phase II gameplan.

[KobeBryan]

Spell Snare is a card that is good at all stages of game. Daze isn't. And there will be turns 5+ when you'll need to counter SFM, CB, IT or Goyf.
Not that Snare is necessary, and esp. in 8Bolts version one may not play it. But it's not like the card is dead becasue of game stage, it's dead becasue of the lacking targets.

You never lack targets with bolt.

[Atog]

-Do you guys Force of Will Sensei’s Divining Top against Miracles? My old plan against Miracles was to let Top resolve since it uses up their mana and fight over Counterbalance. However, I am thinking that FoW’ing Top helps keep the game in Phase II and is therefore where I want to be. I will need to figure out a way to up my game to beat the mighty Oarsmen. Possibly the 2nd Surgical Extraction is greedy and could be a Sulfuric Vortex or something, but I really like Surgicals against combo and I already have 7 spells to bring in against Miracles. I would like to just do a better job of executing a phase II gameplan.

Wathing Jacob playing against Miracles he did let SDT resolve even when he had a counter in hand, i think he said that "f they wanna keep using mana on that it's fine." Maybe he is right about that. I think we can try to safe Forces for cards that really matter.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Good job guys, many thanky for the reports and lots of ideas!

You often lack targets with Spell Snare.

Yes.

[wbw]

I played a 4-round on Saturday for a meager 2-2. I got a booster for my trouble, though!
I'm no begginer, but I'm rusty and this reflects in the performance with this deck.

The list:

MD
19 Lands (8 fetches, 4 Wastes, 3 Trop. 3 Volc. 1 Island)
13 Creatures (4 Delver, 4 Mongoose, 2 V. Clique, 2 TNN, 1 Goyf)
15 Permision (4 FoW, 4 Daze, 4 Stifle, 2 S. Pierce, 1 S. Snare)
8 Cantrips (4 BS, 4 Ponder)
5 Burn (4 Bolt, 1 F/I)

SB
2 Submerge, 2 Rough, 2 Cage, 2 REB, 2 S. Pierce, 1 Dismember, 1 Grudge, 1 Grip, 1 Needle, 1 Sulfur Elemental

The matches:

UR Delver (0-2)
Reanimator (1-2)
Painter Servant (2-0)
UWr Miracles (2-1)

This time, I don't think I made any serious mistake. There were a couple of plays I would do differently, but I don't think it would change the result.

Some thoughts:

- Vendilion Clique was MVP.
- I couldn't evaluate TNN performance. It got pyroblasted 5 times, twice in the first game (round 3 and 4)!
- I want at least one more Goyf. However, I still refuse to pay old dual price for a 2007 card.
- Stifle, Snare, Pierce were all solid but not stellar. F/I never showed up.
- Sulfur Elemental seems too narrow. I will probably change it to something else.
- Pithing Needle is the nuts. I want to up its count to 2. It is even better in builds with Probes.
- The basic land was never relevant.
- I flooded a lot (even with brainstorm recall). This feeling probably is artificial, since I didn't face wastelands.

I'm still unsure of where I want to go with RUG. Builds with Young Pyromancer feels very powerful, but not consistent enough. The opposite can be said about builds with TNN. Then, I could try a Green Sun Zenith package, but it seems clumpsy. Any suggestion that does not involve buying more Goyfs?

[snorlaxcom]

Lol this again? Shouldn't this be stickied in DTB by now?