[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[rlesko]

Hey guys. I'm a casual legacy player that has played RUG Delver for the past few years. I've never played in anything outside of really small locals, and GP Jersey will be my first big event. It's too close to miss and that playmat is really sweet.

Since I've never played some T1 lists, I'm mainly looking for matchup/sideboard advice.

My mainboard is the stock 54, +2 Forked Bolt, +2 Fire//Ice, +1 Spell Snare, +1 Spell Pierce. The Forked Bolts and Fire//Ices are a concession to UR Delver as well as having a better G1 against Elves and Death and Taxes.

Sideboard is as follows:

2 Pyroblast (Blue decks)
1 Red Elemental Blast (Blue decks)
2 Submerge (Mirror, Goyf Decks, Maverick)
2 Rough//Tumble (Death and Taxes, Elves, UR Delver)
2 Pithing Needle (Miracles, Deathrite Shaman Decks?)
1 Krosan Grip (Miracles, Stoneforge Decks)
1 Ancient Grudge (Stoneforge Decks)
1 Surgical Extraction (Dredge)
1 Grafdigger's Cage (Dredge, Elves?)
1 Vendilion Clique (Stoneforge Decks)
1 Sulfuric Vortex (Miracles)

I cut the 1 Submerge since I'm assuming that there won't be as many Goyf decks at the GP.
seems reasonable

Does Pithing Needle come in against BUG Delver if it only hits Deathrite? I'm assuming it's a yes if it's shardless BUG since that deck runs Planeswalkers.
personally i wouldnt, especially in your list with a lot of burn. but in shardless if i had space i might

I know Vendilion Clique works well against a Stoneforge activation, but where else do you bring it in?
primarily against combo and miracles. with combo it allows you to keep all your mana up and flash EoT, or in response to a sneak attack activation. with miracles, the miracle cards have a static ability "miracle" with a triggered ability. with the miracle trigger on the stack, the card is technically still in their hand, only it is revealed. you can play clique in response to this and put the miracle card on the bottom of the library. be sure to note that you must do all of this before the miracle player pays mana for the spell.

I'm also thinking about trying to bring a Zuran Orb into the SB since I'm imagine there will be a good number of burn players, but just about everyone I mention this to says it's a bad idea haha.
doesn't make sense - you can't reliably find it, you don't run loam, youn only run 18 lands (effectively less), and you can only play 1 land per turn. theres better ways to fight burn

Hidden Gibbons seems like sweet tech, but in the matches where you would bring it in, doesn't Goyf do pretty much the same thing?
after further considering this, since it is instant only, i think it will not be strong enough

Thanks in advance.

[sdematt]

Just updating the thread with my current list:

3 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Hooting Mandrills

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Fire // Ice
2 Treasure Cruise

3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland


Sideboard is currently in flux and I haven't updated my cockatrice file yet.

I cut 1 Mandrills 1 Goyf just because people were running the 3 Peezy/3 Goyf list, so I want to see how it was working. Plus, I wanted to try to jam treasure cruise into the deck. Not a lot of testing, thus far, so it's tough to say.

I'm still currently running the Fire/Ice and loving it, but, Rough/Tumble main doesn't seem like a terrible choice. I'm already using that card to nuke tokens and such anyway, might as well push it to where we really want it. Ice is less frequently used, anyway.

Canadian Mandrills. I like the sounds of that.

-Matt

[rlesko]

Matt, I'm surprised to see you deviate from Junk, but welcome the innovation. Do you find Mandrills lacking in the combo match up? Additionally, if something like a rest in peace is ever resolved, the card is quite literally uncastable. Just wondering if you've encountered these scenarios before...

[poxy14]

upon testing, i find mandrils better than mongoose vs unfair matchups..early fetches, cantrips, wastes, cheap counters will let u resolve 1 early and it'll be a homerun fast when team'ed up with delver..and casting them by a lone G is a huge plus! i often boarded out goyfs vs anything unfair.

@sdematt: ive tested tcruise too but it really has issues with other delve cards, so to speak with mandrils. i like tarfires as it can react and can leave a biggie goyf even when we delve essential cardtypes vs non-goyf.dec..im currently running 3 kingkongs and might test probes on that cruise slot.

[Demonic_Attorney]

upon testing, i find mandrils better than mongoose vs unfair matchups..early fetches, cantrips, wastes, cheap counters will let u resolve 1 early and it'll be a homerun fast when team'ed up with delver..and casting them by a lone G is a huge plus! i often boarded out goyfs vs anything unfair.

@sdematt: ive tested tcruise too but it really has issues with other delve cards, so to speak with mandrils. i like tarfires as it can react and can leave a biggie goyf even when we delve essential cardtypes vs non-goyf.dec..im currently running 3 kingkongs and might test probes on that cruise slot.

I concur. Running both Mandrills and Cruise in the same deck is not only a lack of mere synergy it is not plausibly playable or viable together. i simply cannot see playing both in the same deck.

[SORO]

I really dislike playing RUG-Treasure-Aberration, but at least drawing 3 cards is powerful and a seductive idea. But playing Mandrils is a huge mistake. Submerge, Swords, Maze of Ith, Dismember, Burn+ Damage... No, thanks.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Hi Xerlic, welcome on board!
I think your sb is right, I'm just surprised you don't play some number of Flusterstorms. It's pretty impotant against combo and not exactly bad against Miracles and Burn. Also, I wouldn't play REB, unless it'll be beta NM signed. You may always pyroblast land to increase storm for Fluster, but same cannot be done with REB.

@thread: I'm not sure if Mandrills are the new tech, I like it against unfair decks where it presents better clock than mongoose, although it cannot be reliably cast before turn3.
But the fact that Mongoose evades some annoying (and played) cards like StP or Submerge, makes it really good in my eyes. Esp. against anything that runs Snappy+removal, I'd be hesitant to believe that non-shroud threats get there; otoh, apes crush through TNN and cannot be hit by Decay, double Bolt or anyting else that removes Goyf/Delver.

[sdematt]

I really dislike playing RUG-Treasure-Aberration, but at least drawing 3 cards is powerful and a seductive idea. But playing Mandrils is a huge mistake. Submerge, Swords, Maze of Ith, Dismember, Burn+ Damage... No, thanks.

C'mon now, don't give me that. A huge mistake? It depends. Mandrills may hit removal, but we're also a deck that has a powerful counterspell suite. Nimble Mongoose, although it has shroud, doesn't always get you there. It gets blocked all day by TNN/anything, and 3/3 sometimes isn't large enough to swing in against other creatures. As well, you have to constantly keep your graveyard over 7 cards, whereas the requirement for mandrills is to have those cards once.

Submerge does exist in the mirror, sure. Maze of Ith? Rare. Dismember? Not played. Burn + Damage? It does happen.

What about Goose? I could say Block + Bojuka Bog, Engineered Explosives, Zealous Persecution, any creature blocking it, etc.

I know it SEEMS like it might not be worth running, but that's also because the list is so hardened and people are set in their ways. Give it a try and I think you'll be surprised. I mean, if you're playing against Maze of Ith all day every day, play Painter.

-Matt

[Xerlic]

primarily against combo and miracles. with combo it allows you to keep all your mana up and flash EoT, or in response to a Sneak Attack activation. with miracles, the miracle cards have a static ability "miracle" with a triggered ability. with the miracle trigger on the stack, the card is technically still in their hand, only it is revealed. you can play clique in response to this and put the miracle card on the bottom of the library. be sure to note that you must do all of this before the miracle player pays mana for the spell.

Thanks, this is a really good interaction to know. My LGS has 0 miracles players, so I have no experience playing against the deck. I know how Stifle works with the miracle trigger, but didn't realize you could also VClique it away. Great!


@Bed Decks Palyer, the no Flusterstorms is a budget issue. :( No one in my area plays combo or Miracles, so never saw the need to invest in it. Thanks for the welcome.

[BKclassic]

I 4-0ed a daily yesterday with this build:

4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Sylvan Library

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt

3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Grafdigger's Cage

-I beat Ichorid, Slivers, Miracles and Ubrg Delver-Cruise.
-Sylvan Library was obviously great against Mircales (which was a Dig Through Time build), bad against Ubrg Delver, and it didn't come up against Slivers and Ichorid.
-I do think Sylvan Library can keep RUG Delver relavent in the meta. We can beat Delver-Cruise decks with our superior creatures and they usually pretty succeptable to Rough. Against non-Delver Cruise and Dig Through Time decks, Sylvan Library gives us a way to keep up with their card advantage.
-Based on the way this tournament went, I would probably would run 0 or 1 Sylvan Libraries main deck in the future, with 1 or 2 in the SB.

[sdematt]

I 4-0ed a daily yesterday with this build:

4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Sylvan Library

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt

3 Stifle
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Submerge
2 Rough/Tumble
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Grafdigger's Cage

-I beat Ichorid, Slivers, Miracles and Ubrg Delver-Cruise.
-Sylvan Library was obviously great against Mircales (which was a Dig Through Time build), bad against Ubrg Delver, and it didn't come up against Slivers and Ichorid.
-I do think Sylvan Library can keep RUG Delver relavent in the meta. We can beat Delver-Cruise decks with our superior creatures and they usually pretty succeptable to Rough. Against non-Delver Cruise and Dig Through Time decks, Sylvan Library gives us a way to keep up with their card advantage.
-Based on the way this tournament went, I would probably would run 0 or 1 Sylvan Libraries main deck in the future, with 1 or 2 in the SB.

You know how happy this makes me? If I were a card, I'd be a Gaddock Teeg wandering through a Sylvan Library.

-Matt

[SORO]

New Jersey.... any report?

[Caniki]

New Jersey.... any report?

I played a very standard build and went 3-2 with it, losing to a "who can find a lightning bolt faster" match against Patriot delver (answer: the guy who plays Dig Through Time), and getting blown out by ANT. It was 6pm by then, so I decided to go home.

Mongoose being shrouded and a 3/3 was an all-star and stomped all over Swiftspears and Pyromancers. Rough//Tumble cleaned up the rest.

[Xerlic]

I scrubbed out of the main event pretty early.

R1 I stomped a burn deck.

R2 I had a pretty interesting set against a UWR stoneforge deck. Sylvan Library and Mongoose were all-stars in this matchup. Unfortunately, I was unable to seal the deal in G1 and he was able to assemble TNN and Batterskull G1 to race my geese. G2 I drew about half of my deck and couldn't find a single goose and we went to time.

R3 against Miracles, I mulled to 5 G1. G2 I got to clique a miracled Entreat the Angels and saw a Supreme Verdict. I had him at 9, so I took the Supreme Verdict thinking I could counter his entreat. Unfortunately, he had a flusterstorm that I knew about, and apparently I'm an idiot and forgot how Storm worked so I punted that game pretty badly. I dropped from the main event in disgust, even though I had 1 more loss to give.

Afterwards, I joined some Legacy 8 mans and split in the finals twice so I got to walk away from the event with a box in addition to the swag. I ran a train on people who just weren't respecting stifle at all in the current meta, though I'd imagine the better legacy players still playing in the main event had something to do with it.

The playmat is sweet! I wish I did better in the main event, but my lack of experience against certain decks/cards did me in (plus I'm not that good at magic haha).

[ShiftyKapree]

I ended up going 3-3 from GP NJ hit was stuck on one land against burn for my first lost, went to 5 cards game 3 against Jeskai delver for another lost, and lost to affinity for the third ill write a mini report tomorrow about it and my list.

[blablub]

Hey Guys, I've tested a little bit and chatted with many dudes about Legacy and the problems about the classic Mongoose/Tempo Builds. Especially the U/R MU. At first Goyf/Nimble are so much better than their dudes. I thought that TC isn't a problem but i was wrong. The Ancestrals are too hard (suprise, suprise), Their were some Turns, where the U/R Player draws 3 cards, played 2-3 creatures a turn, make 6-7 tokens and have 2 more bolts in hand because of the absurd among of cards they draw and see.
The next problem is the colour Blue, Ive tested builds with Nemesis and TC and this sucks so hard right now because everyone is playin 4 Blasts post board.

to fight the Meta now, i think you need a sort of card advantage source, which isn't TC because you cant play it with Mongoose and blue Threats are not got enough in my opinion because they die to everything.

My idea is (completely untested)

Punishing Thresh

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Punishing Fire
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland
1 Dig Through Time
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Spell Snare
1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Mind Harness

the deck reminds me of the old school ***** decks before the Delver-Print. Ive cutted a Daze because of Grove and added an Ooze because you have more green Mana now to use it. You can fight the Card - Advantage game now with your own Engine and ur are not so weak against Pyroblast.

I like the new Format because i love building a deck to beat the new Cards and adept ur favourite strategy to the new Meta, i will give this List a Chance :)

what do you think?

[Bed Decks Palyer]

what do you think?

I think you should use spellcheck. "blue Threads are not got enough" reminds me of my own recuring quality stuff like "beacasue", "trseh" and such.

on topic:
I played a list similar to yours, but I used Delver, Vexing Sphinx and Vendilion Clique as my additional non-Goyf threats, dopping Mongoose as it cannot be equipped by Jitte. Deck was strange and I think that Delver was really bad, as it doesn't support the overall gameplan of "drop BIG dude, use the PFire engine".
I'm not sure if this can be RUG only, as it looked like one needs a manadork; preferably DRS, but this leads you inevitably to black and thus... bRUG Waterfalls. Which is imho the better thread where to discuss your list, as it seems too controlish for a real RUG. I pity the day I sold my USeas. I'd love to build that deck.

[sawatarix]

I tested a punishing fire-tempo rug and while i have liked the idea to have recurring removal i ended up with too many mulligans because of all the nonblue lands, 3-4 groves and 3-4 wastelands weaken the manabase too much.

what are your experiences with nimble mongoose + delve spells?
last week i played Canadian with 4 thought scour and 3 treasure cruise in 2 local tournaments in berlin and finished 30 and 30. It felt nice to have one of the best 1-drops and (!) ancestral recalls in one deck, but most of the time i had to choose between a 3/3 shroud (instead of 1/1) and drawing 3 cards.We can argue that these 3 cards will fill our graveyard again and thought scour also helped me a lot. i like the synergy with delver, brainstorm, ponder, life from the loam and ancient grudge but i'm not 100% sold to it.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I tested a punishing fire-tempo rug and while i have liked the idea to have recurring removal i ended up with too many mulligans because of all the nonblue lands, 3-4 groves and 3-4 wastelands weaken the manabase too much.

Exactly.

what are your experiences with nimble mongoose + delve spells?
last week i played Canadian with 4 thought scour and 3 treasure cruise in 2 local tournaments in berlin and finished 30 and 30. It felt nice to have one of the best 1-drops and (!) ancestral recalls in one deck, but most of the time i had to choose between a 3/3 shroud (instead of 1/1) and drawing 3 cards.We can argue that these 3 cards will fill our graveyard again and thought scour also helped me a lot. i like the synergy with delver, brainstorm, ponder, life from the loam and ancient grudge but i'm not 100% sold to it.

What were your exact 75? I'm always surprised when such lists so up, as I consider Thought Scour being a wasted slot. I don't really dislike durdling, but I want to durdle somewhere, not to cantrip into cantrip into cantrip...

[blablub]

Jeah, that Manabase might be a Problem

Ur thought Scour idea is good, but do you have enough Slots for that? what to cut?