Actually I didn't have problems running 4 Cruise at all! The probes go well with Pyromancer, helps with play lines, fills up the graveyard and facilitates the land count (I added 1 land to BBD's list because Punishing Fire is so mana-intensive): it was never a bad top deck and I usually benefited from it. On the back of the cantrips I never found myself short on lands, even against a three Wasteland hand I was fine with one basic (so I could get out two-drops). I can see myself cutting a Volcanic Island for another basic for added robustness against Wasteland and PoP (though just playing correctly will improve my game against the latter). 3 Goyf 3 TNN may well be better: TNN was certainly a strong top deck late game. On the other however I quite like the current curve. 2 Pyroclasm and an additional Engineered Explosives sounds pretty good.Originally Posted by Bobmans
The specific list of BBD I'm thinking about is of course http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...872#post851872
I have been harping on RUG Fires for over a year. It definitely has potential but this isntba RUG Midrange thread. Let us reboot the NLT thread.
That excites me! Yeah, let's do that! http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...872#post851872
I believe that this article should be added to the primer: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...nt-Legacy.html
Although not exactly mentioning Can thresh, it concentrates on its predecessors and the mental process behind building one of the best tempo decks ever designed. Well written, me likey.
Read it too. I'll find some way to work it into the history section of the deck. I'll also update the primer with more recent lists including Treasure Cruise, as soon as I find the time to do so.
Currently playing:
Canadian Threshold Primer!
My blog about Legacy, limited, EDH and stuff!
Canthresh is on the finals vs URcruise, over at SCG ATL
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Commission Status: FULL!!! Commission Line to open: 2019
too many mistakes... that did cost him the title
Link to stream?too many mistakes... that did cost him the title
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/593937913?t=34h30m00s
That link should go to the semis which he (obviously) won.
Didn't see, what were his mistakes?too many mistakes... that did cost him the title
But...but...but Rug Delver is dead... nimble mongoose is bad... the deck can't compete without Cruise...
We have said a lot of times. Goose isn´t the best creature of Magic, but it´s all we need to complete our deck.But...but...but Rug Delver is dead... nimble mongoose is bad... the deck can't compete without Cruise...
Hey guys! It's Daniel, and I piloted Classic RUG Delver to a 2nd place finish last night at the SCG Open in Atlanta.
Would anyone be interested in a Tournament Report/Mini primer on the deck? I've never felt really qualified to write out many opinions on Magic, but I want to see Nimble Mongoose in the Top 8 more often!
Also, what mistakes did I make?
I know I should have wasted the City of Traitors vs Show and Tell a turn sooner; luckily that didn't cost me the game.
I haven't looked at the footage super closely, but in the finals, if the mistake was: not Spell Piercing the Ponder, my reasoning was on a 5 card mulligan I had to play the "Protect the Delver and try to Race" game plan.
Game 3 I think it's debatable to play around the double Price of Progress. I considered against it, but felt I needed to get the 3rd dual to get another threat in play and try to kill him quick. I got punished for it. Variance suck, man.
Anyway! Sorry to let you guys down! I'm up for constructive criticism on how I could have done better!
A report would be much appreciated. Also, congrats on the finish!!
Currently playing: T.E.S. & RUG Delver
@vermiis
I know that I would be interested. There has been a lack of feedback since recent meta shift.
And congrats!! Thanks for fighting the good fight :)
Ask Obama for a Magic: The Gathering subsidy while being dressed in pajamas.
@Slide: gratz on the finish. I saw you play round 6 against Kory McDuffie in the feature match area. I would definitely like to read a report and get your thoughts on sideboarding. I played a list similar to yours. I played a Fire/Ice instead of the second Forked Bolt. Again, congratulations!
a primer would be awesome! i was so excited to see classic rug delver make top 8. I bought into legacy a few months ago and i chose rug delver as my first deck. but then with the printing of treasure cruise i decided to switch decks. So rug delver is still one of the favorite decks because it is what i learned the format on. I might have to put down my jaces and tops to dust off my goyfs and trops next legacy event haha.
I remember when all the talk was treasure cruise, there were a lot of classic rug advocates saying that the rug delver gameplan isn't really effected by TC that much. I'm glad this top 8 finish shows that classic rug can still put up results.
SCG Open Atlanta 11/30/2014 Tournament Report by Daniel Olivieri
I'm Daniel Olivieri, the guy who played a classic RUG Delver list to second place in the SCG Open in Atlanta this past weekend.
Usually, I wouldn't write a tournament report like this, and I figure I'm amateur enough that no one will care, but second is my best finish in an open. I'm happy to be continuing to pilot RUG Delver to victory (somewhat)!
Anyway, list for reference:
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
2 Forked Bolt
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
Lands (18)
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
2 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroblast
2 Submerge
2 Rough
I've played RUG(not Temur) Delver for about 2 years or so now, and I feel like I've got a pretty good grasp of the deck. Although in my on camera matches, my play was a little, admittedly, a little sloppy in hindsight, I feel as if I have enough experience to perhaps give some insight into how I made it into the top 8 in a Treasure Cruise meta.
Some ideas of how I approach the deck:
1) Griselbrand Playmat: I think something like this speaks to the small edges we're trying to gain with RUG. Don't underestimate the power of mind games at a big tournament like an Open. I had a lot of opponents comment that they thought I was on Reanimator/Show and Tell because of the play mat. Not sure if that made a difference in their play or keeps, but, I'll take any edge I can get. I might get some Griselbrand Sleeves for any other tournament I go to.
2) Scalding Tarn/Wooded Footlands, fetching into Volcanic Island - The Fetchlands were to signal UR Delver/Reanimator/Show and Tell/Jund. I blew out a lot of people hit by an unexpected Stifle a lot of the time because they're expecting one of those decks. I would specfically play those Fetchlands and fetch into a Volcanic if I had the option (which is typically the correct play anyway) to try to hide it and signal UR Delver or SnT.
I think I might switch to 4 Scalding Tarn, 4 Polluted Delta, but 4 Wooded Foothills instead of the Deltas might be good too. I'm not sure, but it seems if you go Foothills then pass, it looks weird. I think decks like that will usually have a one drop. Going Foothills -> Tarn or vice-versa puts you on RUG for sure. I think Delta is correct.
3) Stifle/Wasteland/Daze: These cards are good, and people aren't expecting them in the current format. Once they see them, they become afraid of them. As you all know, this is essentially a combo in this deck. I personally won't play a deck with Daze in it unless it has the Stifle/Wasteland package. It doesn't matter if they have cards that straight up end the game if they can't play them. This is what makes RUG so good against so much of the field. 95% of decks cannot win without 2-3 lands in play and we can win with one or two.
4) Once your opponent knows about it, play as if you have Stifle: A lot of people say Stifle is bad once your opponent knows about it. That's somewhat true, but Stifle allows you to wins games you shouldn't and gives you the opportunity to play mind games. If I have dual/fetch in play, I'll do things like Brainstorm at the end of their turn (if my hand needs sculpting of course; I'm not encouraging you to play bad Brainstorms), and then fetch on my upkeep. Keep them on guard.
5) All your cards are Time Walks: Stifle your fetch/Wasteland so you can't play your 2 drop? Daze you so you can't play a second relevant spell with the one mana you have open? Lay a threat, bolt your creature turn 2? All Time Walks. RUG Delver should play a threat, and then Time Walk to victory. Winning with no cards in hand is how we operate.
6) Losing to combo is for chumps.
7) Patience, patience, patience. I play this deck very patiently. You do not need to go all out all the time. Know your role. The late game is still the early game if you both have 2 lands. Your topdecks are better than any other decks'. Your Brainstorms are better because you are brainstorming into interaction that you can usually cast. You can see me do so in the match vs Show and Tell.
8) The Seven Bolt Theory: It only takes 7 Lightning Bolts to end the game. Even less with fetchlands being prevalent in the format. Your creatures are recurring Lightning Bolts. Sometimes top-decking the Bolt is your only out, and I've got there tons of times. The thing that separates this deck from BUG Delver and UWR Delver is the ability to Lightning Bolt the face, and in the case of UWR, not gain them life with Swords to Plowshares.
9) Small Synergies: Rough//Tumble and your threats. Stifle/Waste/Daze. All 1 drops and free spells allowing multiple interactions on 2 lands. Brainstorming away any lands in excess of 2. These things allow us to win games we shouldn't.
10) NIMBLE MONGOOSE IS BETTER THAN TREASURE CRUISE: He is. I'm sorry, but it does not matter how many cards you draw, no amount of Swords to Plowshares/Lightning Bolts/Abrupt Decay will kill it. What you lose in speed (as opposed to Monastery Swiftspear out of UR Delver), you make up for with not having to "protect" your threat. Don't discount this kind of card advantage. Mongoose is a beating, and was definitely the MVP of the day. If you cut Goose, just go ahead and play UR Delver. Tarmogoyf isn't worth the green splash (and is the worst creature in the deck IMO).
Notes on flex slots:
I think the 2 Spell Pierce is always correct, and is not, in reality, a flex slot.
Gitaxian Probe on the play is pretty sick. There are numerous times where you have Stifle and a threat; so when you look at their hand and see 3 Fetchlands, you know to hold up the Stifle. Helps with Threshold/Sorcery for Goyf too.
Forked Bolt I think is the correct choice in the current meta. It kills every one of UR Delver's threats, is a good vs Elves (which is good in the current meta), and helps vs Death and Taxes/Infect which seems to be on the rise. If it weren't for UR Delver/Burn being a thing right now, I would be on 2 Chain Lighting, which is better in my "7 Bolt" game plan. Fire//Ice can be tech, but 2 mana is too much in a Daze meta.
Without further ado, the report:
M1 UWR Control
This deck was a bit of a brew. I asked to look at his deck after the match and it looked like he only had Snapcaster/Jace/Vendilion Clique as win conditions. No Top/Counterbalace/Stoneforge.
G1: I win the roll, so I open with a Scalding Tarn I leave uncracked. He plays a Flooded Strand and goes for a fetch, and I Stifle it. "Ouch" he says. Turn 2 I play a Tarmogoyf which promptly gets Swords to Plowshares'd the next turn, but I have no way to stop it. It's fine though, as I play the Mongoose I was sandbagging, and Stifle/Waste my way to victory.
G2: I wasn't sure if he was playing UWR Stoneblade/Miracles, but I sideboarded like he was:
Out (on the draw):
4 Force of will, 1 Daze, 2 Forked Bolt
In:
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Sulfuric Vortext
3 Pyroblast
A sort of repeat of Game 1, but this time I play a Sulfuric Vortex and ride it to victory. I Gitaxian Probe at some point and see a hand of Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares x2, Dig Through Time, Snapcaster Mage. I was worried about him Bolting me for the victory at some point, but I sculpted my hand and finished him off with a Bolt of my own.
Win: 2-0
Record: 1-0-0
M2 UG Infect
I'll admit, I haven't played much of this matchup, but my theory is: Kill all their stuff, and kill them before they can go Infect Guy, kill you next turn. They are similar to us in their disruption, and their clock is shorter. Unlike us, they don't have reach through burn spells. Inkmoth Nexus is their psuedo reach, so play removal with that in mind.
G1: I keep him off a Tropical and then a Inkmoth Nexus after going turn 1 Mongoose/Daze your Glistener Elf. We go back and forth, and I have him at 4 life before he Beserk + Invigorates an Inkmoth Nexus all the way to 10 poision.
G2 & 3:
Out:
2 Force of Will (Infect doesn't have a turn 1 kill, even though its a combo deck. I felt safe taking out 2 Forces to avoid the card disadvantage)
2 Stifle
In:
1 Pithing Needle (Inkmoth is a problem)
1 Ancient Grudge (Inkmoth is a problem that Forked Bolt doesn't hit)
1 Rough//Tumble
1 Flusterstorm
I don't remember much about these games, but Mongoose and Delver got there both times. Game 2, I know I Stifle/Wastelanded him until all he had was 2 Noble Hierarchs, but a timely Rough forced him to play out his pumps to save them. Game 3 a forked bolt hit 2 Infect creatures and that sealed the deal.
Win 2-1
Record: 2-0-0
M3 Reanimator
As much as this is a combo deck and it should be a good matchup for us, I feel like it is very swingy. If they're on the play, turn 1 Griselbrand with Daze + Force back up is a thing. It's brutal. Doesn't help that I got a game loss here for accidentally forgetting to write my 4 Wastelands on my registration sheet. Oops.
G1: Since I got a game loss, they allow me to choose who plays first. I obviously do. Opening hand I'm pretty sure I had these cards: Goose, Probe, Stifle, Spell Pierce, Land, Land, Wasteland. Turn 1 Probe after playing a Volcanic Island showed me a hand full of fetchlands and Griselbrands. I hold up Stifle, and hit his first fetch. Next turn he plays fetches a dual which gets Wasted along with me dropping the Goose. Goose beats for the win when I counter his Ponder after he shows weakness after missing land drops with only an Island in play.
Out:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
In:
3 Pyroblast
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Flusterstorm
(There's an argument for Krosan Grip for Animate Dead, and Submerge because I saw Bayou/Trop game 1. Seems durdly/marginal though. Typically when Griselbrand or any other threat gets out, you're dead anyway.)
G2: Same as the first. I don't see any hate cards, but Goose gets there. I played a Delver at one point even though I knew he had Abrupt Decay because I wanted him to spend a turn killing it. He took the bait, and I rode Goose to victory, with the dead Delver giving me Threshold.
M4 UWR Stone-Top
This was a UWR Stoneblade list featuring Stoneforge/True-Name Nemesis + Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top package.
G1: I'm on the play and drop a Turn 1 Delver. He Ponder's and passes. Delver doesn't flip. He plays a naked Counterbalance. Delver doesn't flip again. Next turn he drops Stoneforge Mystic, and although I Stifle the search trigger, he has the Batterskull in hand. It comes down next turn, along with a Top and the game is soon over.
Out:
4 Force of Will
2 Forked Bolt
1 Tarmogoyf
In:
3 Pyroblast
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Sulfuric Vortex
G2: I'm on the play again and I hold up Stifle. He drops a fetch and is afraid to crack it. Good. Next turn I drop a Goose. He say's ok and takes his turn Pondering. Next turn I play a Delver and he StP's it. Still holding up his Fetch, he Brainstorms. I keep the beatdowns going and eventually he gets to 3 lands after being Stifle/Wasted. I play another Goose with threshold and he Force of Will's. Cool. I'll play another Goose. Got there.
G3: Turn 1 he Ponders. I play a Ponder with no other relevant plays. Next turn he plays cantrips but does nothing else. Bad news. I get a Mongoose in play and start beating with Stifle up. Eventually, he's at 4 lands; one of them being a fetchland. I have a 2 Lands tapped and a Wasteland untapped in play. I belive the next play helps me win the game (and has been relevant other times playing this deck). He casts a True-Name Nemesis, so I wasteland his fetch in response. In response to the Wasteland he fetches, and I Daze the Nemesis. Over the next few turns, I keep beating down and he resolves: Counterbalance, Stoneforge Mystic, and True-Name Nemesis. He's at 3 life, with the Jitte coming down next turn. I go to my last draw step and... Lightning Bolt! I cast the Bolt, Counterbalance hits a Flooded Strand, and my opponent has to watch his Sodium intake.
Win 2-1
Record: 4-0-0
M5 UG Infect
I played this similar to the first time I matched against it. I lose the first game, but come out on top the second and third. Mongoose gets there, with a timely Pithing Needle in the 3rd game naming Inkmoth Nexus, which stopped his Crop Rotation for a block; he would have killed me the next turn.
Win 2-1
Record: 5-0-0
M6 UWR Stoneblade (vs Kory McDuffie who also made Top 8)
G1: I play a Volcanic and pass. He plays a fetch and gets stifled. Next turn I drop a Delver and another land. He plays a Tundra and StP's my Delver. Next turn, I Wasteland + Goose. The game ends soon after while he has 2 lands in play and I Stifle/Waste/Daze him out of the game.
Out:
4 Force of Will
1 Daze
2 Forked Bolt
In:
3 Pyroblast
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Krosan Grip
G2: I open up a double Wasteland, Stifle, Mongoose, Daze hands. The RUG Gods are smiling upon me. Turn one I drop the Goose, and Stifle/Waste him onto triple Island in the turns after. I remember Gitaxian Probing him and seeing Swords, Swords, Bolt, Vendilion Clique, Dig Through Time. He plays the Clique block conservatively, and when he attempts it, I Daze it away.
I think in both games he only resolved a StP in the first game, and a Snapcaster and Dig Through Time in the second. My girlfriend was watching and she mentioned after that although she didn't really understand what was going on, she could tell I was winning by how violently he was shuffling his deck and how upset he seemed.
Win 2-0
Record: 6-0-0
M7 Reanimator (vs Jesse Inman who also made Top 8)
G1: I lose the roll and his turn 2 Griselbrand wins the game for him. He was smart enough not to draw 7 cards "Just Because".
See above for sideboard.
G2: I draw no hate cards, but turn 2 reanimation on Griselbrand gets countered. Turn 3 Griselbrand into Elesh Norn turn 4 seals the deal. Well played, sir.
Loss 0-2
Record: 6-1-0
M8 UR Delver
Contrary to the Finals, I believe we have the advantage in this matchup. Goose/Goyf is better than all their threats, and if we focus our removal on Pyromancer, we can stay ahead on board. They also play a lot of fetches, so our Daze's are a lot better along with our Stifle/Wasteland. Treasure Cruise is good at recovering, but remember: you can only play 1 land a turn. Unlike RUG, UR wants 3+ lands out to be able to chain spells to pump up their Swiftspears/make Elementals. Play control, kill their threats, win the game.
G1: Stifle/Wasteland/Goose gets there. I play control and kill all his threats, while not having to spend cards protecting Goose. He resolves Treasure Cruise, but he's at 6 life with 1 land. Can't stop the Goose.
Out:
4 Force of Will
1 Daze
In:
3 Pyroblast
2 Rough//Tumble
G2: Repeat of the first game. He resolves Treasure Cruise, gets blown out by Rough//Tumble and still dies to the Goose.
Win 2-0
Record: 7-1-0
M9 Intentional Draw
Record: 7-1-1
Top 8
Lands
This is a bad matchup for us; and I also haven't played it too much. Goose is what allows us to get there vs Maze and Punishing Fire.
G1: I beat down, but Maze of Ith slows things down and a turn 4 Marit Laige wins the game.
Out:
1 Force of Will
2 Daze
2 Forked Bolt
In:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Submerge
1 True-Name Nemesis
G2: I keep a double Delver hand and get aggressive. I know my only chance at winning is to kill him fast. I have both Delvers out, and with the triggers on the stack, I aggressively Brainstorm to flip them. I find another Delver and True-Name Nemesis and eventually have 3x Delver + True-Name out. He kills one, but it's replaced by a Mongoose. I Stifle a Thespian's Stage trigger for a Time Walk, and then on the next turn when he resolves it, I Submerge Marit Laige to take the game.
G3: The footage comes into this about half way through the match. The only notable thing before this is Force of Willing a turn 1 Explore (or whatever the enchantment is called that lets them play more than 1 land a turn). At one point he even said "do I go after your creatures or your lands?". He Punishing Fire'd my Delver. Wrong choice. Next turn I drop the True-Name in hand and he says "Oh wow, again? You only have one of those, right?". Yep, sure do.
Because it's the Top 8, I saw his deck list, and knew that his only win condition was Dark Depths and Punishing Fire. I doubted he would bring in Seismic Assault, so Pithing Needle naming the Thespian's Stage was me attempting to Time Walk him as much as possible. I have double Submerge in hand and I Daze the Loam(?) to stop him from playing other stuff that turn and also get a Volcanic in hand to be able to Submerge/Bolt if I need to. Tabernacle didn't really matter because he wasn't Wastelanding aggressively (he couldn't with all that pressure out) and I only needed True-Name alive.
Win 2-1
Record: 8-1-1
Show and Tell
There isn't much to say here as everything is on camera.
G1: I keep double Force, Waste, Stifle, and a single land. This is where patience comes in. I just play draw-go-you-better-not-fetch-oops-now-you-have-no-lands-I-told-you-so until I get a threat and then kill him.
Out:
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Forked Bolt
In:
1 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge (he had Defense Grid in the board)
G2: I'll have to look at the footage but I remember my hand being decent. I should have Wastelanded the City of Traitors. A timely 3rd card on the Brainstorm Krosan Grip saves the day.
Win 2-0
Record: 9-1-1
UR Delver
Oh man I'm still kicking myself about this match. I should have won. I believe if there were a game 3 I would have had it.
G1: I mull to 5. I don't Spell Pierce the Ponder because I wanted to protect my Delver. It costs me the game. I almost had him though, had that Delver not flipped, he was dead.
G2: Double Price of Progress blow-out ouch. Sometimes they have it. You can see me considering playing around it, but I needed to end the game ASAP.
Loss 0-2
Record: 9-2-1
It was a good day overall! I had a lot of fun playing Magic and met some cool people. I think I did pretty good on 4 hours of sleep and a hangover (had to entertain the lady friend the night before for putting up with the upcoming 12 hours of Magic).
Anyway, I could go on and on forever about the intricacies of the deck, but I'm assuming you guys all know that. When I get some more time, I'll post my sideboard guide that I've had written for a long time, with some notes on the cards and various matchups.
Thanks guys, and LONG LIVE THE GOOSE.
here here!
congrats on your finish. did you try testing with 2x cruise? ive found it doesnt hurt goose that much and is great against a lot of matchups. im curious if you tried it and dropped it, and if so why.
Yes I tested it with 2 Cruise + 1 Thought Scour. Also 1 Cruise + 1 Thought Scour. I just don't think Cruise is where this deck wants to be, and Goose can be slow sometimes anyway. Don't get me wrong, drawing 3 cards feels great, but the opponent being dead 2 turns sooner feels better.
If Treasure Cruise was Ancestral Recall, I would replace Ponder with it. But it isn't, and it isn't 1 mana all the time. It's just not good enough in this deck.
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