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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #1121
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by edahl View Post
    I finally own this deck but I don't get the opportunity to play often, so: are there anyone that routinely stream or post videos of playing this (and other, particularly BUG) Delver variants?
    I finally don't own the deck anymore, but I agree with Contract Killer: watch those videos!

  2. #1122

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Last edited by edahl; 01-24-2015 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #1123

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by edahl View Post
    Top is an enabler, but it doesn't actually effect us if that makes sense. It's only card selection and not actual card advantage. Jacob suggests that top has them spending more mana on their turn which is good for us which I think most people agree with. If the opponent mulligans and leads top off of either a dual or a plains I would probably force it because we could either waste them or they might not have good mana to begin with.
    There are merits for either side of the argument, but I think the general consensus is that we should let top resolve most of the time. The issue is that the game against miracles will go long and they have a lot of answers for our threats. If we force their opening top and can't protect our threat from their swords to plowshares, or deal with their counterbalance (which still has high blind flip percentages at 1cmc) then we lose. RUG delver is all about only countering the stuff that you have to. Top isn't something we have to counter, but their terminus they play on turn 4 after goose gets online we do.
    A few things to note about playing against miracles when they have top out our wastelands can be really good. What I mean by this is if they flip top and have a fetch up waste it in response. They won't crack because the top card is probably terminus or entreat and it helps make our soft permission better while still saving stifles for miracle triggers. Another thing to be aware of is that if a miracles player reveals terminus and passes priority for stifle check let's say turn 3 with the following boardstate:
    island
    island
    fetch
    top
    They have to maintain priority and fetch with the trigger on the stack in the above situation. If the miracles player passes priority we can pass back and they can't fetch to pay because after the trigger resolves they have to pay for it or not cast it. I wouldn't say this situation comes up often, but it's good to know since miracles is a match up that has a lot of small interactions we need to look for and respond too.
    Another key interaction that some miracle players don't know is flusterstorm by passes counterbalance lock, or at least the copies do since they're "placed on the stack" and not "played". This can lead to huge blow outs if the miracles player goes for entreat thinking they're safe with force in hand and leaving a mana up for daze. So in that situation if storm is just at 1 for entreat meaning we need to play at least 1 more spell so two copies get through. They could pay for 1 copy with the open mana and then force the other though so if you could do something like brainstorm, bolt (countered by counterbalance :/ ) followed by flusterstorm there's really not much they could do about 3 copies on the stack targeting the entreat except flusterstorm back, but then there wasn't anything we could do to begin with.

  4. #1124
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Brilliant post!

  5. #1125

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Great post Contract Killer!

    Playing a tier deck sure feels good. I'll be sure to get ahold of a Flusterstorm (or two) for my SB.

    @Bed Decks Palyer: How come you got rid of this deck?

  6. #1126

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quick question what do you guys think of this list:
    54 stock with 2/2/2 split of forked bolt, spell snare, spell pierce
    Sideboard:
    2 pyroblast
    2 flusterstorm
    2 envelop
    2 grafdigger's cage
    2 rough and tumble
    2 submerge
    1 vendilion clique
    1 sylvan library
    1 ancient grudge

    Normally I run 1 more artifact/enchantment hate spell + 1 generic pithing needle or 3rd pyroblast in the 2 envelop slot. What I've found after more testing is that I really only want the 3rd pyroblast against miracles which is already a good match up (at least 55/45 in our favor). The other revelry again mainly for miracles to help beat resolved counterbalances. I think making the concession of having the miracles match rely more on the stack vs the ability to beat a resolved counterbalance/RIP is fine. I'm just not sure if 1 ancient grudge is enough for artifact hate decks. I mean I'm running 8 answers maindeck to stoneforge (4 bolt, 2 forked, 2 snare) plus 4 stifles for batterskull. The other thing I just haven't had a lot of experience with is envelop, but it seems solid against miracles, storm, show and tell and elves.
    After doing a lot of testing against storm recently against a really good pilot I actually think the match up while 50/50 isn't that good. Despite us having stifle the opponent was always able to disrupt my hand enough that by the time he went off he was able to play around everything. Which I think is partially because I never seemed to have that good of pressure against him since goose is horrible against storm and goyf I never felt like I could tap out for and delver I never had on turn 1 that often. Envelop seems to help a lot post board has anyone else tested it out? I mean the main issue I had was he would duress, therapy my hand away and then went off knowing I just had something like pierce/daze/stifle that he could play around or get rid of with another therapy after past in flames resolved. It just seems like for this match up you need a turn 1 delver for it to be anywhere in your favor or just a bad storm pilot who's too trigger happy which never seems to be in my cards.

  7. #1127

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    Quick question what do you guys think of this list:
    54 stock with 2/2/2 split of forked bolt, spell snare, spell pierce
    Sideboard:
    2 pyroblast
    2 flusterstorm
    2 envelop
    2 grafdigger's cage
    2 rough and tumble
    2 submerge
    1 vendilion clique
    1 sylvan library
    1 ancient grudge

    Normally I run 1 more artifact/enchantment hate spell + 1 generic pithing needle or 3rd pyroblast in the 2 envelop slot. What I've found after more testing is that I really only want the 3rd pyroblast against miracles which is already a good match up (at least 55/45 in our favor). The other revelry again mainly for miracles to help beat resolved counterbalances. I think making the concession of having the miracles match rely more on the stack vs the ability to beat a resolved counterbalance/RIP is fine. I'm just not sure if 1 ancient grudge is enough for artifact hate decks. I mean I'm running 8 answers maindeck to stoneforge (4 bolt, 2 forked, 2 snare) plus 4 stifles for batterskull. The other thing I just haven't had a lot of experience with is envelop, but it seems solid against miracles, storm, show and tell and elves.
    After doing a lot of testing against storm recently against a really good pilot I actually think the match up while 50/50 isn't that good. Despite us having stifle the opponent was always able to disrupt my hand enough that by the time he went off he was able to play around everything. Which I think is partially because I never seemed to have that good of pressure against him since goose is horrible against storm and goyf I never felt like I could tap out for and delver I never had on turn 1 that often. Envelop seems to help a lot post board has anyone else tested it out? I mean the main issue I had was he would duress, therapy my hand away and then went off knowing I just had something like pierce/daze/stifle that he could play around or get rid of with another therapy after past in flames resolved. It just seems like for this match up you need a turn 1 delver for it to be anywhere in your favor or just a bad storm pilot who's too trigger happy which never seems to be in my cards.
    That SB looks like what I'd play aside from Envelop. My meta has a lot of Vial and Stoneblade, and a resolved Batterskull just sounds horrible. Personally I'd rather have more answers to artifacts and enchantments, but maybe that's just a crutch while I learn the deck (my experience with RUG is a Punishing Fire+Young Pyromancer deck with a little less disruption and no Wasteland or Stifle). The match-ups you mention sound like match-ups we feel good about anyway. When it comes to tapping out for Tarmogoyf, that sounds like the kind of situation where you sometimes have to ... just hope they don't have it. My experience with this deck though, is pretty much none.

  8. #1128

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    For starters the chance of someone having a wasteland in their first 8 cards is only 36%. Probability in magic is based off of hypergeometrics. Here's a brief crash course on it:
    http://www.gatheringmagic.com/chrism...-distribution/
    Now if you don't want to bother understanding all of the math just look at the variables and you can plug them into a calculator:
    http://stattrek.com/online-calculato...geometric.aspx

    Let's look at the chance for seeing a second land off of ponder.
    Population size (deck): 52 assuming we fetch (Whether we fetch or not isn't even going to change the margin by 0.01%)
    sample size (cards drawn): in this case it's 3 because of ponder
    number of successes in population (how many lands in the deck): 12 again based off of us fetching
    successes in sample (number of lands we want in the 3 cards): 1
    Average percentage of drawing a second land off of ponder turn 1 = 42%

    That data essentially says roughly 3/5 games that you try a turn 1 ponder for a second land it will not work. The odds are against us if only by 8%. On the other hand our opponent will only have wasteland roughly 1/3 games on turn 1. So overall there's a 58% we brick on pond turn 1 or we can look at the bright side that there's only a 36% chance our opponent will have wasteland turn 1. I mean I'll gamble my opponent having wasteland turn 1 over trying to ponder out a second land any day with those odds.

    Essentially there's a chance we concede 1/3 games if the opponent plays wasteland turn 1. So if we take the ponder route we do nothing turn 1, and still won't have a second land turn 2 3/5 games. There's also roughly 1/3 games that this plan will backfire on our opponent because we will have 2 lands in hand. The odds are in our favor in numerous ways to not ponder turn 1 and to instead play out delver.
    I'm new to this forum, this format and this deck. I somehow feel incredibly at home.

    Hey guys fellow RUG player here, I have been slowly trading for this deck and I'm only a volcanic away! My play testing is limited, I have watched everything I can find and am in the process and reading this entire thread!

  9. #1129
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by edahl View Post
    @Bed Decks Palyer: How come you got rid of this deck?
    I never played it since last summer. In fact I played no sanctioned tournament since then, as Legacy turned to boring shit. Realizing I don't want things I have no need for, I sold most of my cards including the core of Can Thresh.
    But I still got it in my MWS folder if I want to Stifle some fetches and tap the Goyfs...


    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    Quick question what do you guys think of this list:
    54 stock with 2/2/2 split of forked bolt, spell snare, spell pierce
    Sideboard:
    2 pyroblast
    2 flusterstorm
    2 envelop
    2 grafdigger's cage
    2 rough and tumble
    2 submerge
    1 vendilion clique
    1 sylvan library
    1 ancient grudge

    Normally I run 1 more artifact/enchantment hate spell + 1 generic pithing needle or 3rd pyroblast in the 2 envelop slot. What I've found after more testing is that I really only want the 3rd pyroblast against miracles which is already a good match up (at least 55/45 in our favor). The other revelry again mainly for miracles to help beat resolved counterbalances. I think making the concession of having the miracles match rely more on the stack vs the ability to beat a resolved counterbalance/RIP is fine. I'm just not sure if 1 ancient grudge is enough for artifact hate decks. I mean I'm running 8 answers maindeck to stoneforge (4 bolt, 2 forked, 2 snare) plus 4 stifles for batterskull. The other thing I just haven't had a lot of experience with is envelop, but it seems solid against miracles, storm, show and tell and elves.
    After doing a lot of testing against storm recently against a really good pilot I actually think the match up while 50/50 isn't that good. Despite us having stifle the opponent was always able to disrupt my hand enough that by the time he went off he was able to play around everything. Which I think is partially because I never seemed to have that good of pressure against him since goose is horrible against storm and goyf I never felt like I could tap out for and delver I never had on turn 1 that often. Envelop seems to help a lot post board has anyone else tested it out? I mean the main issue I had was he would duress, therapy my hand away and then went off knowing I just had something like pierce/daze/stifle that he could play around or get rid of with another therapy after past in flames resolved. It just seems like for this match up you need a turn 1 delver for it to be anywhere in your favor or just a bad storm pilot who's too trigger happy which never seems to be in my cards.
    IDK. The whole Storm matchup is pretty random, sometimes you draw bad hands and lose, other times youflip Delver and then cantrip into permission and the opponent is never in play.
    I found Grafdiggers Cage really helpful, as it stops one of their main engines. Although they can Decay it, they still need to draw into it, moreover they need to find slots for it.
    I cut some number of creatures, either mix of Goyfs and Mongooses, or if I'm in a mood for hard labour, I tinker with correct numbers depending on play/draw. Then the two FBs get cut, of course, and maybe one LB if that's necessary, as I don't expect Xantid Swarm, at least not in big numbers. This leaves you with some 6 slots at least, maybe one more (say you cut all goyfs otd) and thus you may bring 2 Cage, 3 REB, 2 Flusterstorm which should be enough:

    3 Bolts for random XS and/or faster clock
    4 FoWs
    2 Snares (IT, CRit, maybe BW)
    6 conditional counters in Daze and Spell Pierce
    4 Stifles (I prefer to go after their fetches to limit their development, but late game save them for storm)
    2 Flusterstorms
    3 Blasts to hit the cantrips and once again slow the opponents development
    8-9 critters to have some clock

    Obviously Vendilion Clique really helps as it's both creature and permission. I play one, as it's also good against Miracles.
    In your sb I dislike Envelop, as I much rather play answers against the least prevalent prison deck, DnT. I hate to lose to BSkull, so I play Artifact Mutation and then KGrip to destroy any RiP or CB or w/e:

    2 Rough/Tumble (creatures)
    3 Pyroblast (we play Legacy)
    2 Flusterstorm (it's quite solid against Hymn, Stifle, etc., switch with FoW?)
    1 Ancient Grudge (BSkull, MUD, DnT, Vial)
    1 Artifact Mutation (BSkull, MUD, DnT)
    1 Krosan Grip (RiP, CB, MUD, BSkull)
    2 Grafdigger's Cage (Storm, Elves, grave decks)
    2 Pithing Needle (JTMS, Lili of TV, SDT, EE... the targets are countless)
    1 Vendilion Clique (Miracles and combo; it also flies over elves, yet it's pretty slow)

    That's my sb for a foreseeable future. I dislike SL as it does nothing the turn it comes to play, gets more powerful as the game turns longer (something we should avoid) and has no p/t.
    I dislike Envelop as it's pretty limited and except for Miracles (and to Storm to some extent) I don't find a need for it.

  10. #1130

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    Legacy turned to boring shit. Realizing I don't want things I have no need for, I sold most of my cards including the core of Can Thresh.
    But I still got it in my MWS folder if I want to Stifle some fetches and tap the Goyfs...
    Aw, what happened? What's an MWS folder?

    Nice points on storm!

    BTW, is TNN an ok budget option for Clique in the sideboard?

  11. #1131
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by edahl View Post
    Aw, what happened? What's an MWS folder?

    Nice points on storm!

    BTW, is TNN an ok budget option for Clique in the sideboard?
    Well, at least Treasure Cruise happened. And an overall boredom of overall state o format. MWS stands for Magic Workstation, a freeware for internet card games.
    I played storm, I played lots against storm, and i played lots against Sloshthedark, storm specialist. I might be wrong, of course, but I think that this approach is reasonable.
    I wouldn't play TNN. You need to tap out and it provides no utility against combo. It's good as Mongoose no.5, but the cost is too prohibitive, imho.

  12. #1132

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    I never played it since last summer. In fact I played no sanctioned tournament since then, as Legacy turned to boring shit. Realizing I don't want things I have no need for, I sold most of my cards including the core of Can Thresh.
    But I still got it in my MWS folder if I want to Stifle some fetches and tap the Goyfs...



    IDK. The whole Storm matchup is pretty random, sometimes you draw bad hands and lose, other times youflip Delver and then cantrip into permission and the opponent is never in play.
    I found Grafdiggers Cage really helpful, as it stops one of their main engines. Although they can Decay it, they still need to draw into it, moreover they need to find slots for it.
    I cut some number of creatures, either mix of Goyfs and Mongooses, or if I'm in a mood for hard labour, I tinker with correct numbers depending on play/draw. Then the two FBs get cut, of course, and maybe one LB if that's necessary, as I don't expect Xantid Swarm, at least not in big numbers. This leaves you with some 6 slots at least, maybe one more (say you cut all goyfs otd) and thus you may bring 2 Cage, 3 REB, 2 Flusterstorm which should be enough:

    3 Bolts for random XS and/or faster clock
    4 FoWs
    2 Snares (IT, CRit, maybe BW)
    6 conditional counters in Daze and Spell Pierce
    4 Stifles (I prefer to go after their fetches to limit their development, but late game save them for storm)
    2 Flusterstorms
    3 Blasts to hit the cantrips and once again slow the opponents development
    8-9 critters to have some clock

    Obviously Vendilion Clique really helps as it's both creature and permission. I play one, as it's also good against Miracles.
    In your sb I dislike Envelop, as I much rather play answers against the least prevalent prison deck, DnT. I hate to lose to BSkull, so I play Artifact Mutation and then KGrip to destroy any RiP or CB or w/e:

    2 Rough/Tumble (creatures)
    3 Pyroblast (we play Legacy)
    2 Flusterstorm (it's quite solid against Hymn, Stifle, etc., switch with FoW?)
    1 Ancient Grudge (BSkull, MUD, DnT, Vial)
    1 Artifact Mutation (BSkull, MUD, DnT)
    1 Krosan Grip (RiP, CB, MUD, BSkull)
    2 Grafdigger's Cage (Storm, Elves, grave decks)
    2 Pithing Needle (JTMS, Lili of TV, SDT, EE... the targets are countless)
    1 Vendilion Clique (Miracles and combo; it also flies over elves, yet it's pretty slow)

    That's my sb for a foreseeable future. I dislike SL as it does nothing the turn it comes to play, gets more powerful as the game turns longer (something we should avoid) and has no p/t.
    I dislike Envelop as it's pretty limited and except for Miracles (and to Storm to some extent) I don't find a need for it.
    Yeah that makes sense I guess. I'm looking at trying envelop because it seems fairly good against miracles, amazing against storm and pretty good against elves. I think I'll switch my 1 artifact hate slot to a K-grip since I'm just playing 1 artifact hate card. Pithing needle is definitely good it's just a card that I've found hard to measure it's value in anything outside of miracles. Since it provides virtual card advantage and decks like d&t or maverick you can name a number of different things, but they have so much redundancy. I just found my games against storm to be sub par as of late here's my current board plan:
    - 2 forked bolt
    - 4 bolt
    - 2 goyf

    +2 cage
    +2 envelop
    +2 flusterstorm
    +1 vendilion clique
    +1 pyroblast

    Pyroblast does help in hitting their can trips, but it's still kind of weak if you draw it to late. I mean unless you hit one of their early turn 1 or 2 brainstorm/ponder it's one of the worst cards you could draw later in the game. I also like to keep at least 10 threats in, but that's just a personal preference.
    Sylvan Library is mainly to help against miracles. It's just so good in that match up. Our life total doesn't matter like at all in that match up and we can get so many good cards to sculpt an unbeatable hand. Maybe I'm overvaluing it for just that one match up.

  13. #1133

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    This is the list I'm planning on playing in a tourney next weekend. Should be fairly stock:

    4 Delver, Goose, Goyf, FoW, Stifle, Daze, Wasteland, ...
    3 Trop, Volcanic
    8 Fetch
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    1 Forked Bolt

    SB:
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    2 Rough
    1 Flusterstorm (or temporary replacement)
    1 Vendilion Clique (or temporary replacement)

    For the temps I'm thinking maybe Envelop and a Krosan Grip.

  14. #1134

    [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I have an artifact mutation sitting around. Great to see someone try it out. Thought it would be amazing against batterskull!

  15. #1135
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey Guys. I am a new Legacy player. My LGS just started a weekly 18-proxy Legacy event every Sunday. Last week, we had 8 players, and I got 3rd place winning $20 store credit. Today, we had 8 players again, and I got 1st place winning $40 store credit. I am pretty pumped. I used Slide's list and sideboard guide

    Round 1 - Death and Taxes (2-0)
    Game 1 - I burn a Mom and a Thalia. Beat down with Goyf for the win.
    Game 2 - I don't draw any sideboard cards. I just play two Delvers and a Goyf and I outrace him.

    Round 2 - Storm (2-1)
    Game 1 - I beat down with double Goyf and a full grip of counterspells.
    Game 2 - He has double Xantid Swarm and locks me out. He wins on Turn 5.
    Game 3 - I beat down with a Delver and a Goose. He gets a Xantid Swarm out. I get him down to 3 life. So he goes for it. I Stifle Xantid Swarm's triggered ability and Daze his rituals away. He scoops.

    Round 3 - Death and Taxes (2-1)
    Game 1 - I mulligan to 5. He gets out Mom, Thalia, SFM, and Batterskull. I play 3 Goyfs but he Plows them all away.
    Game 2 - He plays 3 Moms. I play Pithing Needle naming Mom. Delver and Goyf get there.
    Game 3 - I probe him. He has SoFaI, SFM, Thalia, RiP, and Flickerwisp. I play Delver. He plays SFM getting Batterskull. I bolt SFM. I get Goyf out. He plays Rest in Peace. He gets Thalia and Sword of Fire and Ice. He kills my Delver. But he is at 6 life. So I pay 1R to Bolt EoT. And then pay 1R during my upkeep to Bolt him again.

    I have only been playing Legacy for 2 weeks so far, but I am loving it. I can't wait to get real Dual lands and toss these proxies in the trash.

  16. #1136

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    My first time playing RUG delver I got my butt handed to me on a silver platter by a Jund Depths player. That when I learnt that this deck isn't for anyone and that this is hands down one of the most skill intensive, brain aching decks that anyone could pick up and learn to play. This is my first list of RUG delver that I've ever but together. Could I please get some help from this forum on learning how to sideboard properly.

    RUG Delver

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogyf
    4 Nimble Mongoose

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Fork Bolt

    4 Wasteland
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Tropical Island

    Sideboard
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Rough // Tumble
    2 Submerge
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Null Rod
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Sideboard Tech that can keep up with True-Name Nemisis.

    This is my deck so far that I'm working with and it's actually keeping up with all the other decks that beat tempo. The only time I feel it folds is when I can't keep up with a True-Name Nemisis. Am I just playing it wrong when I'm up against Stoneblade/American/Deathblade/Esper/Grixis Control type decks?

    I feel as though in my meta Spell Snare isn't that good unfortunately. Everyone seems to run everything except for 2 drops (excluding Tarmogoyf). I like Gitaxian Probe, cause its a can-trip and I have information about what my opponent is playing already.

    My meta is a lot of Burn, Death-Taxes, Maverick, Landstill, Grixis (true-name) control, all the stoneblades, miracles.

    I've been approximately been playing this deck for about 2 and a half years, so some advice would be much appreciated.

  17. #1137

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @zhanger

    Have you tried playing TNN in the sideboard? We are usually ahead in the early turns against the TNN decks and just gas out as TNN hits the floor. I think playing TNN against them might be useful.

  18. #1138

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Pyroblast is a great SB card that will help out in a lot of other matches.

    If you wanted to get crazy you could run one underground sea and use golgari charm. I don't think it is a good solution though.

    Sometimes 3 mana can be a lot against us.

  19. #1139

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by cheerios View Post
    @zhanger

    Have you tried playing TNN in the sideboard? We are usually ahead in the early turns against the TNN decks and just gas out as TNN hits the floor. I think playing TNN against them might be useful.
    I don't want to end up using the problem as an answer to the problem. I've told my self that I'd never play it unless it was absolutely necessary.

    My friend has a card that he isn't willing to divulge until i get it. He says it's from Legends and it's more then able to keep up or even take over with a true-name on the field.
    I've tried keeping up with my own TNN and it doesn't work out, most of the time they end up finding someway of dealing with it.

  20. #1140

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhanger View Post
    My first time playing RUG delver I got my butt handed to me on a silver platter by a Jund Depths player. That when I learnt that this deck isn't for anyone and that this is hands down one of the most skill intensive, brain aching decks that anyone could pick up and learn to play. This is my first list of RUG delver that I've ever but together. Could I please get some help from this forum on learning how to sideboard properly.

    RUG Delver

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Tarmogyf
    4 Nimble Mongoose

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Stifle
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    2 Fork Bolt

    4 Wasteland
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Misty Rainforest
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Tropical Island

    Sideboard
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Rough // Tumble
    2 Submerge
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Null Rod
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Sideboard Tech that can keep up with True-Name Nemisis.

    This is my deck so far that I'm working with and it's actually keeping up with all the other decks that beat tempo. The only time I feel it folds is when I can't keep up with a True-Name Nemisis. Am I just playing it wrong when I'm up against Stoneblade/American/Deathblade/Esper/Grixis Control type decks?

    I feel as though in my meta Spell Snare isn't that good unfortunately. Everyone seems to run everything except for 2 drops (excluding Tarmogoyf). I like Gitaxian Probe, cause its a can-trip and I have information about what my opponent is playing already.

    My meta is a lot of Burn, Death-Taxes, Maverick, Landstill, Grixis (true-name) control, all the stoneblades, miracles.

    I've been approximately been playing this deck for about 2 and a half years, so some advice would be much appreciated.
    There's no good answer for TNN that we have in our tool set unfortunately. That sideboard seems fine a bit more singleton than I would like, but maybe that's just me. It's also really light on combo hate, but I guess that's just not a problem for you. For that meta if Maverick and D&T are prevalent then it might be worth it to run 1 sulfur elemental (he's also not half bad against Miracles as an EOT threat and easier to get through counterbalance lock if that happens).
    Null rod I'm not a huge fan of. It stops top, but needle already does that and is much more flexible. It doesn't do anything against batterskull which is our main problem. Any other equipment SoFI, Jitte, etc are too slow to play against us. When they equip we can just bolt the creature in response. If they're using jitte half the time we can stifle the counter trigger and it's irrelevant. The only thing null rod does is it really hoses storm since they can't use half of their fast mana and stops the hellbent enabler that is LED. Since there isn't a lot of storm in your meta though I would cut it.

    For D&T accept it's a bad match up and there's only so much you can do. With that being said this would probably be the best board plan
    OTP:
    - 2 probe
    - 2 pierce
    - 1 force
    + 2 rough
    + 1 ancient grudge
    + 1 krosan grip
    + 1 sulfur elemental
    OTD
    - 2 probe
    - 2 pierce
    - 1 daze

    Like this is just a bad match up they have Mom and thalia and their mana denial plan is better than ours. On top of that half of their threats are must answer on the spot or huge roadblocks for us (flickerwisp, serra angel, Mirran crusader, Brimaz). They also have the stoneforge package which we have to deal with. There's just too many threats for us to keep on top of while they're wastelanding/porting us.

    Maverick isn't that bad of a match up. It's slightly in their favor but not by much. So long as we kill drs, deal with stoneforge and keep knight of the board we're fine.
    OTP
    - 3 force
    - 2 pierce this is just really bad here. It really doesn't do much and it might be better than force otp but definitely out otd.
    - 2 probe
    + 2 submerge
    + 2 rough
    + 1 ancient grudge
    + 1 krosan grip
    + 1 sulfur elemental
    OTD
    - 2 probe
    - 2 pierce
    - 1 daze
    - 2 force



    Landstill is a weird match up and hard to board against. They're probably in the BUG shell with drs, loam, factory, pernicious deed, etc. For sideboard against them we really don't have much just because of the angle they attack from. Vendilion clique is good to snag loams out during draw steps. Pyroblast is pretty good since it hits standstill, tar pit, jtms, bs etc. If you have a loam in the board it's pretty good as well.

    Grixis builds are just like any other tempo mirror it's all about who doesn't play as badly as the other. Tempo mirrors are by far the hardest part of playing RUG and just take a lot of practice. For boarding you'll want to shave all forces on the play since we don't need them and I like to keep 2 in on the draw since there's a lot of stuff we need to answer. If they're threat combination is something like delver, young pyro and tnn then you will definitely want rough and pyroblasts. I usually do something like this in tempo mirrors:
    OTP:
    - 4 force
    + 2 submerge (if they run goyf/tombstalker)
    + 1 pyroblast ( This varies depending on threats. If they're bug and I just see delver, drs, goyf then just 1, but if they have TNN board in 2 - 3)
    + 1 - 2 flusterstorm This just helps win counter wars and tempo mirrors are usually mana tight
    + 2 rough if they have young pyromancer
    OTD just change what comes out:
    - 2 force
    - 2 pierce
    *In tempo mirrors always keep probe in. Normally unless it's combo you don't need it post board because it just helps you feel out game 1. Tempo mirrors though the information is very helpful.

    Esper blade, deathblade and UWR blade will have similar boarding strategies and how we should play the game. Stifle fetches if possible because it really helps our soft permission and keeping the game where we want it. If they play stonforge mystic there's a few routes to deal with it. The best way is snare or daze obviously. Half the time they will just go get batterskull anyways which is great for us since all we have to do is stifle the germ trigger. It's very time consuming for them to bounce it back followed by replaying it a turn later and so long as we have pressure we can win the race. The other option is just kill stoneforge. All together between bolts/counters/stifle we have like what 10 - 18 answers between counters and removal. Boarding you will want to do something like this:
    OTP:
    - 4 force
    - 2 gitaxian probe
    + 1 krosan grip
    + 1 ancient grudge
    + 1 vendilion clique
    + 1 - 3 pyroblasts depending on if they're running TNN or not
    + 2 roughs if they're running young pyromancer in UWR or 1 against deathblade OTP isn't horrible since they have drs and stoneforge
    OTD:
    - 2 force
    - 2 probe
    - 2 daze
    Against Deathblade OTD don't put rough in. Tapping out turn 2 while might net a 2 for 1 leads to blow outs turn 3 if they drop lili/TNN.
    Stifle you could shave here, but I think it has too much value in these matchups as time walks against stoneforge or nullifying Liliana's edict effect.

    Miracles is a really swingy 50/50 match up that can go either way. As for boarding do something like this:
    OTP
    - 2 gitaxian probe
    - 2 forked bolt
    - 2 bolt
    + 1 vendilion clique
    + 1 krosan grip
    + 1 pithing needle
    + 1 null rod
    + all pyroblasts you have
    + 1 - 2 flusterstorm This card is up for debate in this match up. Personally I really like it because it helps when fighting over important spells like entreat, jace, terminus, etc. It also by passes counterbalance lock at least the copies do which is niche, but nice to have up your sleeve incase you opponent punts tapping out for entreat.
    OTD
    - 2 forked bolt
    - 2 gitaxian probe
    - 4 daze this card is just outright bad on the draw against miracles. Even on the play if we draw it late game it's disgustingly bad which the game will go since they have so many outs. On the other hand it's just too good to not have on the play.

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