[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[keys]

What's the best way to beat Lantern.dec? Ancient Grudge, Null Rod?

[wizard_of_gore]

What's the best way to beat Lantern.dec? Ancient Grudge, Null Rod?

null rod shuts them completely off.

[keys]

null rod shuts them completely off.

Yes, but it can be dealt with by Abrupt Decay or other things like Unexpectedly Absent, so it's not an auto win.

[rlesko]

What's the best way to beat Lantern.dec? Ancient Grudge, Null Rod?

Seems like they can't deal with Goose / have a hard time with Goyf, just the regular game plan is probably sufficient.

EDIT: Save some permission for Ensnaring Bridge probably.

[Jon]

Has anyone tried running tarfire / seal of fire in the 2 flex spots. Is forked bolt better to kill multiple x/1's or is pumping a goyf better?

I am playing a Forked Bolt and strongly considering another split removal spell in the deck. I hate losing to elves.

[eyeownyu]

Can I ask why I see no lists running krosan grip anymore? I realize revelry gets 2 damage and ancient grudge is card advantage, but it seems like blowing up a top or balance is worth the slot.

[rlesko]

Can I ask why I see no lists running krosan grip anymore? I realize revelry gets 2 damage and ancient grudge is card advantage, but it seems like blowing up a top or balance is worth the slot.

I've never stopped running Grip. I've never run Revelry.

[Jaytron]

What's the plan vs decks like UB Tezz/Merfolk that always have the chalice on 1? Just fold?

Also have 2x DnT, Maverick, and Miracles in the meta. I'm thinking I have to abandon RUG Delver?

Also, Nimble Mongoose seems very underwhelming most of the time...

[ironclad8690]

Vs Merfolk remember to use Daze to bounce your island or even wasteland your own island if it means the difference between blocking one of their creatures or just getting aggro'd out.

Tezz on the other hand is tough if they get a Strix heavy draw, but we certainly have the tools to win. Try to use their clunky draws to your advantage, and don't leave yourself vulnerable to Chalice if you can help it. Don't tap out early if you have countermagic that can handle Chalice.

With practice even in that meta you should win at least about 50% of the time.

[Jaytron]

Vs Merfolk remember to use Daze to bounce your island or even wasteland your own island if it means the difference between blocking one of their creatures or just getting aggro'd out.

Tezz on the other hand is tough if they get a Strix heavy draw, but we certainly have the tools to win. Try to use their clunky draws to your advantage, and don't leave yourself vulnerable to Chalice if you can help it. Don't tap out early if you have countermagic that can handle Chalice.

With practice even in that meta you should win at least about 50% of the time.

Thanks for the pointers!

Are there any other good RUG Delver resources? Coming from Grixis delver, it plays a bit different.

I found the 3 part primer on greymerchants.

What's the typicaly SB plan vs Merfolk and DnT? Maybe I need to change out my flex 6 as well?

Here's my decklist:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
2 Forked Bolt
4 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Rough // Tumble
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

Stifles and FoW I assume come out for artifact destruction and more burn/pyros?

[skyout]

Thanks for the pointers!

Are there any other good RUG Delver resources? Coming from Grixis delver, it plays a bit different.

I found the 3 part primer on greymerchants.

What's the typicaly SB plan vs Merfolk and DnT? Maybe I need to change out my flex 6 as well?

Here's my decklist:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
2 Forked Bolt
4 Ponder
1 Spell Snare
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dismember
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Submerge
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 2 Rough // Tumble
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Krosan Grip

Stifles and FoW I assume come out for artifact destruction and more burn/pyros?

Death and Taxes

Cut:
4 x Stifle
Some number of spell pierce/fow

Add:
1 x Dismember
1 x Sulfur Elemental
2 x Rough // Tumble
1 x Ancient Grudge
Possibly Neelde

Merfolk

Cut:
4 x Stifle
Some number of spell pierce/fow

Add:
2 x Pyroblasts
1 x Ancient Grudge
1 x Dismember
2 x Rough // Tumble

[Jaytron]

Death and Taxes

Cut:
4 x Stifle
Some number of spell pierce/fow

Add:
1 x Dismember
1 x Sulfur Elemental
2 x Rough // Tumble
1 x Ancient Grudge
Possibly Neelde

Merfolk

Cut:
4 x Stifle
Some number of spell pierce/fow

Add:
2 x Pyroblasts
1 x Ancient Grudge
1 x Dismember
2 x Rough // Tumble

Thanks!

Are there any matchups where Stifle stays in? It feels like a neat trick g1, but a lot of people will try to play around it once they know you're on RUG.

[ironclad8690]

Thanks!

Are there any matchups where Stifle stays in? It feels like a neat trick g1, but a lot of people will try to play around it once they know you're on RUG.

The only reason you are boarding them out in those matchups is because they don't play fetches.

[rlesko]

Death and Taxes

Cut:
4 x Stifle
Some number of spell pierce/fow

Add:
1 x Dismember
1 x Sulfur Elemental
2 x Rough // Tumble
1 x Ancient Grudge
Possibly Neelde

I wouldn't suggest boarding your stifles out...counters their wastelands, mother of runes activation, SFM trigger, batterskull trigger, RIP Trigger, flickerwisp, etc. Spell Pierce is basically a dead draw, you don't want all 4 force of wills on the play, and you don't want all the dazes on the draw

[Mammutti]

I wouldn't suggest boarding your stifles out...counters their wastelands, mother of runes activation, SFM trigger, batterskull trigger, RIP Trigger, flickerwisp, etc. Spell Pierce is basically a dead draw, you don't want all 4 force of wills on the play, and you don't want all the dazes on the draw

This x100. Against DnT on the play I would board:

+1 Sulfur Elemental
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Dismember
+2 Rough // Tumble
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Krosan Grip

-4 Force of Will
-3 Spell Pierce
-1 Spell Snare/Daze

On the Draw:
+1 Sulfur Elemental
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Dismember
+2 Rough // Tumble
+2 Pithing Needle

-2-4 Daze
-1-2 Force of Will
-1-3 Spell Pierce

I could see myself boarding in Grip even on the draw.. If you get to blow out their batterskull or sword after equipping you still gain a lot of tempo and mess up their gameplan. Mother, Stoneforge, Vial, Thalia are the biggest threats, also RiP after boarding.

I would never board out a single Stifle.

Against Merfolk I would also bring in one or two Pithing Needles since winning the game after a resolved Vial is very difficult. In here it also stops Mutavault (and Wasteland). Stifle is bad against Merfolk however.

The more you play the more confident you get in estimating the amount of needed hate cards for the match.

My side looks like this atm:

1 Null Rod
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Spell Snare
2 Submerge
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Rough // Tumble

Vortex has been pretty underwhelming lately. Mostly due to Mentor in Miracles. I might replace it with a Needle.

Cheers.

[poxy14]

I would never board out a single Stifle.

+1, take out all the counters except stifles.. stifle hits wastelands/ports/sfms/mom/jitte/bskull/lots more...
load up on artifact hate and all removals available.

[cheerios]

Which is better for the new meta, 2 forked bolt or 2 dismember? Do you guys think we will see less Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, and/or Tombstalkers now?

Cheers

[poxy14]

Which is better for the new meta, 2 forked bolt or 2 dismember? Do you guys think we will see less Gurmag Angler, Tasigur, and/or Tombstalkers now?Cheers

im using these 7 removals for variance.... i dont wanna overload on dismembers as it is dead vs unfair...

4bolts/1fice/1forked/1 dismember

[Contract Killer]

Well I just finished a weekly ending with a mediocre 2/2 finish. Overall though I think I played really well despite that. There was only really one match that was just left to variance and another that I played well but may have sideboarded wrong against.

54 core RUG Delver with:
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember

SB 2 Pyroblast
SB 2 Flusterstorm
SB 2 Rough // Tumble
SB 2 Submerge
SB Sylvan Library
SB Surgical Extraction
SB Sulfuric Vortex
SB Sulfur Elemental
SB Vendilion Clique
SB Ancient Grudge
SB Null Rod

Round 1 ANT 1/2
Game 1 I kept something like 2 Ponder, Force of Will, Stifle, Brainstorm, 2 fetches. I knew my opponent was either on Grixis Delver or Storm and after the recent bannings I put him on Storm and I was correct. Turn 1 I pass holding up stifle and he also knowing what I was on played a fetch and passed. My turn I Ponder and brick on finding a threat or anything remotely relevant. I shuffled and drew some cantrip I think. His turn he played a fetch out again and passed. My turn I pondered and hit a Nimble Mongoose and start to work on his life total. Unfortunately I just hadn't found pressure soon enough and he started to take apart my hand hitting my Spell Pierce and then Force of Will and went off.

SB + 2 Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Surgical Extraction, Vendilion Clique, Null Rod // - 4 Nimble Mongoose, 2 Dismember

Game 2 I don't remember my opening as well as my first game. The first 2 turns or so I played draw go holding a Tarmogoyf and Spell Pierce. My first Spell Pierce turn 2 hit a brainstormwhich was pretty good and then I hit another one turn 3 with my second Spell Pierce. Turn 5 I or so I landed a Sylvan Library holding up flusterstorm, Brainstorm, Daze. His turn he cantripped a bunch and tried to cabal therapy me with the flusterstorm being known information. I only had 1 mana up so I brainstorm and find a second flusterstorm put both back and he couldn't go off. My turn I paid 4 taking both flusterstorms swung with tarmogoyf and pass. His turn he plays another cabal therapy Which I daze and flusterstorm since daze at that point was dead and I needed to build storm for my flusterstorm that way the second one wouldn't be on his radar. My turn I crack a fetch to see some new cards with Sylvan Library and find the lightning bolt for the final nail in the coffin.

SB + 2 Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Surgical Extraction, Vendilion Clique, Null Rod // - 4 Tarmogoyf, 2 Dismember

Game 3 This game was really close my opener was 3 lands, nimble mongoose, vendilion clique, Brainstorm, Lightning bolt. The first few turn I ripped a spell pierce off the top and play a land and pass. Next turn I deployed my nimble mongoose all the while he's sculpting his hand with cantrips. Turn 3 I have ponder, brainstorm, lightning bolt and Vendilion Clique. I opt to play out vendilion clique on his turn as he's stuck on underground sea and island so he will probably be choked on mana when he plays his ritual. The other problem was I needed more of a clock since goose wasn't at threshold (3 cards in the bin I think) and he was still at 15. His turn he played dark ritual in response I flash in Vendilion Clique and now things get interesting his hand is:
2 Lion's Eye Diamond, Dark Petition, Past In Flames, Cabal Therapy
Essentially there's 3 possible targets here, but really only 2.
The first target is Past In Flames. If you take this then he has BBB U 2x Lion's Eye Diamond + Dark Petition so then literally any +1 mana source (including a land drop) makes this a kill since he can get to 5 mana for Dark Petition and then have the 6 mana from lion's eye diamond.
The second target is Dark Petition. I thought about taking this for a while, but the problem here is then he still will have 7 mana post Past In flames (UUUU + BBB). Which wouldn't be that bad without a tutor, but he has gitaxian probe, Ponder, and 2 Brainstorms to flash back. This line I think gives a lot of flexibility even if he has to go for broke, but seeing 7 cards essentially (1 from gitaxian probe, 4 from ponder, 2 from 2brainstorms) seems pretty bad.
The third target is a Lion's Eye Diamond. Having played storm a fair bit now I ended up deciding on this as my target. The main thing to understand here is that if you take lion's eye diamond then he will have BBB + U after Past In flames. This gives him 1 draw and he would need another + 3 mana source either Cabal Ritual or another lion's eye diamond. Unfortunately at the end of the day he ripped another lion's eye diamond off the top making my careful decision all for not.

That aside I'm curious what you guys think of this game. Should I have just pondered + Brainstormed on my turn rather than play vendilion clique to get more of a clock? I'm pretty sure my clique target was correct but I'm open to suggestions if there's something I may have over looked when comparing lines.

*I'll update this later with the other 3 games.

[ironclad8690]

Well I just finished a weekly ending with a mediocre 2/2 finish. Overall though I think I played really well despite that. There was only really one match that was just left to variance and another that I played well but may have sideboarded wrong against.

54 core RUG Delver with:
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Dismember

SB 2 Pyroblast
SB 2 Flusterstorm
SB 2 Rough // Tumble
SB 2 Submerge
SB Sylvan Library
SB Surgical Extraction
SB Sulfuric Vortex
SB Sulfur Elemental
SB Vendilion Clique
SB Ancient Grudge
SB Null Rod

Round 1 ANT 1/2
Game 1 I kept something like 2 Ponder, Force of Will, Stifle, Brainstorm, 2 fetches. I knew my opponent was either on Grixis Delver or Storm and after the recent bannings I put him on Storm and I was correct. Turn 1 I pass holding up stifle and he also knowing what I was on played a fetch and passed. My turn I Ponder and brick on finding a threat or anything remotely relevant. I shuffled and drew some cantrip I think. His turn he played a fetch out again and passed. My turn I pondered and hit a Nimble Mongoose and start to work on his life total. Unfortunately I just hadn't found pressure soon enough and he started to take apart my hand hitting my Spell Pierce and then Force of Will and went off.

SB + 2 Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Surgical Extraction, Vendilion Clique, Null Rod // - 4 Nimble Mongoose, 2 Dismember

Game 2 I don't remember my opening as well as my first game. The first 2 turns or so I played draw go holding a Tarmogoyf and Spell Pierce. My first Spell Pierce turn 2 hit a brainstormwhich was pretty good and then I hit another one turn 3 with my second Spell Pierce. Turn 5 I or so I landed a Sylvan Library holding up flusterstorm, Brainstorm, Daze. His turn he cantripped a bunch and tried to cabal therapy me with the flusterstorm being known information. I only had 1 mana up so I brainstorm and find a second flusterstorm put both back and he couldn't go off. My turn I paid 4 taking both flusterstorms swung with tarmogoyf and pass. His turn he plays another cabal therapy Which I daze and flusterstorm since daze at that point was dead and I needed to build storm for my flusterstorm that way the second one wouldn't be on his radar. My turn I crack a fetch to see some new cards with Sylvan Library and find the lightning bolt for the final nail in the coffin.

SB + 2 Flusterstorm, Sylvan Library, Surgical Extraction, Vendilion Clique, Null Rod // - 4 Tarmogoyf, 2 Dismember

Game 3 This game was really close my opener was 3 lands, nimble mongoose, vendilion clique, Brainstorm, Lightning bolt. The first few turn I ripped a spell pierce off the top and play a land and pass. Next turn I deployed my nimble mongoose all the while he's sculpting his hand with cantrips. Turn 3 I have ponder, brainstorm, lightning bolt and Vendilion Clique. I opt to play out vendilion clique on his turn as he's stuck on underground sea and island so he will probably be choked on mana when he plays his ritual. The other problem was I needed more of a clock since goose wasn't at threshold (3 cards in the bin I think) and he was still at 15. His turn he played dark ritual in response I flash in Vendilion Clique and now things get interesting his hand is:
2 Lion's Eye Diamond, Dark Petition, Past In Flames, Cabal Therapy
Essentially there's 3 possible targets here, but really only 2.
The first target is Past In Flames. If you take this then he has BBB U 2x Lion's Eye Diamond + Dark Petition so then literally any +1 mana source (including a land drop) makes this a kill since he can get to 5 mana for Dark Petition and then have the 6 mana from lion's eye diamond.
The second target is Dark Petition. I thought about taking this for a while, but the problem here is then he still will have 7 mana post Past In flames (UUUU + BBB). Which wouldn't be that bad without a tutor, but he has gitaxian probe, Ponder, and 2 Brainstorms to flash back. This line I think gives a lot of flexibility even if he has to go for broke, but seeing 7 cards essentially (1 from gitaxian probe, 4 from ponder, 2 from 2brainstorms) seems pretty bad.
The third target is a Lion's Eye Diamond. Having played storm a fair bit now I ended up deciding on this as my target. The main thing to understand here is that if you take lion's eye diamond then he will have BBB + U after Past In flames. This gives him 1 draw and he would need another + 3 mana source either Cabal Ritual or another lion's eye diamond. Unfortunately at the end of the day he ripped another lion's eye diamond off the top making my careful decision all for not.

That aside I'm curious what you guys think of this game. Should I have just pondered + Brainstormed on my turn rather than play vendilion clique to get more of a clock? I'm pretty sure my clique target was correct but I'm open to suggestions if there's something I may have over looked when comparing lines.

*I'll update this later with the other 3 games.

Can you explain your reasoning as to why you Clique'd him when you did? Wouldn't it be better to wait and until he is almost hellbent?