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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2881
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    With these decks moving to Hexdrinker over Arcanist, it seems to me that Waterlogged Grove may be the go-to spell land. The deck is more dependent on G than R to win in most games.

    Against some combo matchups, I often take out both Lightning Bolt and W6. This leaves almost no red spells left in the deck. I've taken out Fiery Islet at times (mostly on the draw), but if you switch to Waterlogged Grove, you could also consider cutting a Volc on the draw.

  2. #2882
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Well remember that the sideboard cards are still very relevant (e.g. Pyroblast), and for example against DnT, you really want access to Red to reliably cast your creature and artifact removal spells. Green is just used for casting creatures and a few minor sideboard spells (and half of W&6). So while I agree that Waterlogged Grove is a decent choice, I'm not necessarily sure it's better than Fiery Islet given the deck's current configuration. But it's honestly a small enough issue that it won't make a difference in the vast majority games you play.

  3. #2883
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Whatís the 15th sideboard card in Daryl Ayerís winning list?

    http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/133330

    My first through is Surgical Extraction. Second thought is Winter Orb.
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  4. #2884

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Wizard View Post
    Whatís the 15th sideboard card in Daryl Ayerís winning list?

    http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/133330

    My first through is Surgical Extraction. Second thought is Winter Orb.
    In his last few lists he has played 1 Orb but I can't find the list from that exact tournament

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Probably Surgical, Sylvan Library, or Dismember.

  6. #2886

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've been away from magic a few weeks, and it seems like the cutting edge RUG decklists are shifting at an unprecedented pace... The deck has gone a more grindy/midrange direction with the printing of w6 and arcanist initially, then it seemed that the latter was being replaced by hexdrinker as people realised that card was better than they previously thought... Fast forward a few weeks, and the most successful lists of the largest tournament have almost taken a 180, going back to a lower to the ground tempo 60 with stifle and mandrills and significantly cutting down on more recent, grinder additions. Considering the tournament size and the caliber players piloting them, this is unlikely to be an outlying result... Anyone knows the reasons behind this, or better yet, can provide a link to an explanation by the players themselves?

  7. #2887
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    You're not wrong about the pace of change. We also had a lot of Legacy events in a short period including GP ATL in between two SCG events which drove a ton of testing. Daryl Ayers drove a ton of thought leadership on leveraging stifle in a meta where 20%+ of your matchups are the mirror. Delver decks with Stifle will often have a pretty big advantage in pseudo-mirrors.

    I played a very midrange list in GP ATL (4x W6, 2 TNN, 2 Hexdrinkers), and since have played a lot of the Stifle version locally. Both are very good. Currently sticking with the Stifle version because I simply enjoy the play patterns. It's amazing how much more often I blind-flip my delvers and have plenty of Blue cards to pitch for Forces when you remove lands/creatures and replace with U instants ;).

    http://magic.facetofacegames.com/stifle-your-fetchland/
    https://anchor.fm/thirst-for-cast/ep...tallion-e6f5vb

    On the theme of the insane rate of change, there is a lot of hype around Oko, Thief of Crowns as a 1-of answer to all sorts of situations Delver can typically never beat (Marit Lage, Chalice, Emrakul, Ensnaring Bridge, Hogaak, etc.). The number of sets released this year is mind-bending.

  8. #2888

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. I'm glad stifle tempo lists are still a competitive choice, I've always preferred their nimble, synergystic approach to midrange playing daze and delver. The only thing I don't like about Daryl's list is the third mandrills, but I'd also cut tnn if possible. Maybe that's where the one copy of oko could fit

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    SorboOne just won the Legacy Format Playoffs online; I like his list w/ 3x Stifle. Mine is very similar except I'm playing an Oko over TNN and FoN over the 2nd Pierce. I agree with only having 2 Delve spells in total.

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...off-2019-10-14

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Recently picked up my W&6s into a clean 4-0 at our weekly. What's the general consensus regarding Magmatic Sinkhole? I played 2 Wrenn and 0 Oko but might shave the 3rd TNN for a Sinkhole.
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by meffeo View Post
    Recently picked up my W&6s into a clean 4-0 at our weekly. What's the general consensus regarding Magmatic Sinkhole? I played 2 Wrenn and 0 Oko but might shave the 3rd TNN for a Sinkhole.
    Magmatic Sinkhole is a pretty solid 1-of to have in your 75 if you're not on Hooting Mandrills. However, Oko does a similiar kind of thing (later game removal) and can single-handedly win the game in a bunch of situations.
    Last edited by BKclassic; 11-14-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    With W&6 getting banned this morning, what does the deck look like now? Does it try and go back to Goose?

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm not so sure that RUG is necessarily the best Delver option now. BUG and Grixis Delver become much more attractive options. Baleful Strix, Young Pyromancer, Dark Confidant etc. -- all X/1 creatures are more playable given that W&6 is gone, although Plague Engineer becomes a very valuable card to consider with decks like Elves and DnT coming back. Hard to say what the ideal loadout for a Delver deck is going forward, but Tarmogoyf becomes a less attractive option when unconditional removal increases in popularity.

    Straight up Izzet/UR Delver was also doing well even before the ban. There are certainly some good Green cards worth running, but do they really justify the splash? Oko is still a very powerful planeswalker though, and helps solve some of the problems RUG was facing -- but he slots just as well into BUG.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So this is awkward. I literally just bought into RUG. I got goyf and my Tropicals and Oko. All I did not yet buy was W6. I guess I got that going for me. Now everyone seems to be moving over to BUG. I am sure it's a nice deck, but I do not own Underground Sea. All I have is 3 Trops and 3 Volcs. So how do I salvage RUG? I am currently on 4 Mongoose, 4 Delver, 4 Goyf, 2 Oko as threats along with the stifle/waste/pierce plan, but Goose seems to be so underpowered nowadays. I am fine with not having a T1 deck, I just want to find the optimal version of RUG. Do we play some number of Snapcaster? Turning that one into an elk seems ok. Hexdrinker seems too mana intensive, Arcanist needs a turn to get value. Maybe mandrils and a third oko? Young pyro? What are you guys planning?

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentient6 View Post
    So this is awkward. I literally just bought into RUG. I got goyf and my Tropicals and Oko. All I did not yet buy was W6. I guess I got that going for me. Now everyone seems to be moving over to BUG. I am sure it's a nice deck, but I do not own Underground Sea. All I have is 3 Trops and 3 Volcs. So how do I salvage RUG? I am currently on 4 Mongoose, 4 Delver, 4 Goyf, 2 Oko as threats along with the stifle/waste/pierce plan, but Goose seems to be so underpowered nowadays. I am fine with not having a T1 deck, I just want to find the optimal version of RUG. Do we play some number of Snapcaster? Turning that one into an elk seems ok. Hexdrinker seems too mana intensive, Arcanist needs a turn to get value. Maybe mandrils and a third oko? Young pyro? What are you guys planning?
    Unfortunately playing a stream of dudes into Snapcaster + 1 mana removal spells isnít a winning formula. Replace Goose with Hexdrinker (you need to be able to not lose attacker to Strix/Ice-Fang), flood your maindeck with Cindervines and away from Goyf. The one good thing you have going on is that Goyf use is going to plummet so you no longer need to run your own for mutually-assured destruction.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentient6 View Post
    So this is awkward. I literally just bought into RUG. I got goyf and my Tropicals and Oko. All I did not yet buy was W6. I guess I got that going for me. Now everyone seems to be moving over to BUG. I am sure it's a nice deck, but I do not own Underground Sea. All I have is 3 Trops and 3 Volcs. So how do I salvage RUG? I am currently on 4 Mongoose, 4 Delver, 4 Goyf, 2 Oko as threats along with the stifle/waste/pierce plan, but Goose seems to be so underpowered nowadays. I am fine with not having a T1 deck, I just want to find the optimal version of RUG. Do we play some number of Snapcaster? Turning that one into an elk seems ok. Hexdrinker seems too mana intensive, Arcanist needs a turn to get value. Maybe mandrils and a third oko? Young pyro? What are you guys planning?
    Canadian has always been kind of a decent deck. It is very adaptable on its own so no matter where the meta is heading, delver decks will always be a viable choice.

    That said, I would suggest a more reactive and tempo like approach. You would not want to spam threats to the board that will be outclassed quickly since W&6 are no longer there to provide that massive value boost or even lock the opponent out of the game.
    Ice Fang and Strix will probably make a huge comeback so you don't want to get stuck in those with your Goyfs. We might even see BUG Control shells incoming playing both of them on top of Oko in order to control the boardstate.
    Also UWx decks might make a triumphant return, so be ready to face some Swords and stuff again.

    Long story short, we don't control the board any more in most matchups. Period. So our game plan should shift away from that - so what else are we good at? Controlling the stack. Controlling the mana. So that's where we go (again).

    Depending on the development of the meta, I think we might experience the comeback of classic Canadian with the most mana efficient threats (4 Delver, 3-4 Mongoose, 1-2 Mandrills) combined with 1 or 2 stall breakers (TNN) and / or even Orbs in the main deck if the meta gets greedy enough to do so. A total of ~12 threats embedded in a framework of counter magic and mana denial and about 6 removal spells. This list demands a strict tempo like play pattern; we must identify and handle any card that could cost us the game or else we just lose. On the other hand though, handling those cards is a little bit easier for us 'cause we are loaded with stack interaction. While we handle cards, a single threat of our own goes upstairs each turn.

    Or else, we might go for a more versatile setup of threats ignoring their efficiency to a certain degree. That would include stuff like YP, Oko and Brazen Borrower that allow us to fall behind on the board if we must since we can catch up later on. This then requires a higher density of threats and therefore less stack interaction which makes us weaker against combo but more resilient against fair decks.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Probably a stupid idea, Oko is probably better.. But if the deathtouchers get more common again, has anyone thought about the Royal Scions? Tons of loyalty, offers card selection and supports delve, let's even a goyf attack past blockers without dying and ticks up to a strong ultimate. Of course 3 mana is a lot and it needs another threat. But it does help digging.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sentient6 View Post
    Probably a stupid idea, Oko is probably better.. But if the deathtouchers get more common again, has anyone thought about the Royal Scions? Tons of loyalty, offers card selection and supports delve, let's even a goyf attack past blockers without dying and ticks up to a strong ultimate. Of course 3 mana is a lot and it needs another threat. But it does help digging.
    I think the main issue with the Royal Scions is that you in fact need another threat for them to shine while Oko is a threat on his own and is also able to answer pesky owls and snakes by either elking them so they don't kill your attacker (if you have Goyf or Mandrills) or simply flooding the board with food and turn that to elks so the deathtouchers will be outnumbered eventually.
    Oko takes over the board within few turns and greatly improves any race situation on its own. Scions just dig a little bit for solutions where Oko simply is that solution.

    The only reason to play Scions over Oko would be YP imo since Scions can dig for more spells and make real threats out of one token per turn while the rest can stay back and protect Scions 'til they can <-8> and win the game, but again the argument will be that Scions then do need YP to be online to be great.

  19. #2899

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So guys Noble Hierarch is playable again.
    Itís great with oko
    - it powers it out
    - it pumps your Elks in oko mirrors
    - late game hierarchs can be made into elks

    Its great with snake
    - snake is scalable for dork draws or one land keeps

    Itís great with mandrils delver and tnn
    - as they all have Evasion thus benefit from the exhalted buff

    Its great with winter orb
    - aka the premiere way of beating the influx of strix and uw decks

  20. #2900
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    So guys Noble Hierarch is playable again.
    Itís great with oko
    - it powers it out
    - it pumps your Elks in oko mirrors
    - late game hierarchs can be made into elks

    Its great with snake
    - snake is scalable for dork draws or one land keeps

    Itís great with mandrils delver and tnn
    - as they all have Evasion thus benefit from the exhalted buff

    Its great with winter orb
    - aka the premiere way of beating the influx of strix and uw decks
    Currently working on optimizing an Infect 75, but Noble Hierarch RUG is my next project after that. Using the mana advantage to leverage Stifle/Daze/Wasteland/Winter Orb is some of the most fun I've ever had playing Magic, so I'm excited to see if there's a way to bring it back.

    Sort of rough and thoroughly untested, this is my starting point:

    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland

    3 Noble Hierarch
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hexdrinker
    1 Brazen Borrower

    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Stifle

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Lightning Bolt

    2 Oko, Thief of Crowns

    There's obvious tension with Winter Orb and Hexdrinker, so I've relegated all copies of the former to the sideboard. Brazen Borrower seems fine as a main deck one of, though I could see replacing it with a True-Name Nemesis. Threat suite is a little bizarre, I've never really liked having to pay two for Tarmogoyfs so I've made a move back to all one drop threats and a pair of Oko's on the top end. Hopefully the exalted 4/4 Mongeese are enough to swing over any pesky Elk our opponent may accrue over the course of the match, though I'm happy to move back to Goyf/Mandrils if the Goose doesn't work out.

    Edit: Jammed a bunch of games against Infect last night. First impressions are that Brazen Borrower over performed while Nimble Mongoose under performed. I placed a pretty large emphasis on building the deck to only include one drops, but with the Hierarchs providing extra mana it often feels like we're just flooded out while deploying undercosted threats. Maybe a move to some number of Tarmogoyf/TNN would be beneficial.
    Last edited by Jesture; 11-27-2019 at 09:27 AM.

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