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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2281
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by jattra View Post
    Maybe a noob question: how do we fight Knight of the Reliquary.
    It tutors for lands and gets quickly big. I find both very annoying.
    Why are you worried about it. No one is playing more than 2 in a deck. And there's only 1 deck that plays it.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Daze.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Why are you worried about it. No one is playing more than 2 in a deck. And there's only 1 deck that plays it.
    They also play gsz. And I loose to late game knight time to time. It's already big beast and daze is useless at that time. Submerge would be nice but I don't like it against other frequent decks, hello grixis.

  4. #2284

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post

    ...

    Why would you side out that many Stifles against D'n'T? ...
    I bring them out as they are nice in some cases but overall pretty narrow as they are only good in combination with other cards
    Stifling...
    ...Mother - you need a creature to deal damage (you can't decide what you kill) or a removal (2for1 yourself but still decent)
    ...Stoneforge search - works until they topdeck the equipment or have some in hand already (seems dangerous to me)
    ...Stoneforge put into play - Timewalks which is fine with a clock but most of the time not good enough
    ...Batterskull - Works well except they have a ton of mana

    The point is you get a lot of cards which deal with all this problems better like Artifact removal or recurring/mass removal.
    So I think stifle is easier to cut than Daze and Force as they present safe answers to all troublesome cards.
    I could see a point for keeping 1 or 2 Stifle over 1 or 2 Daze but I'm not 100% sure on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    Cause it's better in the black, I guess. Canadian sure is great against most kinds of relevant decks (including Grixis) right now, but when it comes to facing less common decks
    I don't think so Grixis is only really better in the Storm Matchup and maybe some fringe stuff.
    Show and Tell - Stifle + Pierce do lot more than 3 cabal therapy here
    Elves - More Removal if you play Mandrills trample is HUGE
    Stoneblade & Miracles - Goose wins alone here in combination with so much counter magic its pretty good matchup
    Deathblade - More removal for manadorks + manadenial

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    I'd also pick Grixis over Canadian since it has more active plays and pretty diverse threats which are hard to handle for most opposing decks. I top-8'ed a 200+ player tournament last year playing Grixis having to fight through 3 Eldrazi decks along with Dredge, Infect, Miracles and 2 times the mirror. I don't think that Canadian would have taken me that far especially against Dredge and the Eldrazi players. Grixis did a great job here since YP stalls the board and DRS puts on some pressure.
    Also the combo matchup is pretty decent for they cannot afford waiting to go off as late as possible in order to assamble a counter proof hand 'cause you could just tear apart their hand with Therapy. The mirror spells hard times indeed but when it comes to the rest of the field, Grixis's got a point there. :)
    This really depends on your list actually the Eldrazi Matchup is favored for you if you play Tarmogoyfs, if you dont its little bit worse than grixis.
    Dredge is totally up to your SB. Most of the time DRS is not enough to keep this deck under controll
    Infect is much easier for canadian as we have more removal and hardcounters for the Agent (if you play Snare)
    Miracle was undoubtly one of Canadians best matchups while it was pretty shacky for grixis.

    Quote Originally Posted by jattra View Post
    Maybe a noob question: how do we fight Knight of the Reliquary.
    It tutors for lands and gets quickly big. I find both very annoying.
    Thats a troublesome card for Canadian no question but so are Chalice of the Void, Bloodmoon, Batterskull, True-Name Nemesis, Choke, Trinisphere or any non boltable permanent but the simple answer is DON'T LET TROUBLESOME STUFF RESOLVE.
    If you are in the lategame without any board presence and they topdeck the zenith while you have nothing in Hand you would also have lost to a scavenging ooze, chalice, stoneforge or a naturally drawn knight so you were in a bad spot in the first place. You need to force you opponents to play into you softpermission by applying pressure with your creatures.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    Thats a troublesome card for Canadian no question but so are Chalice of the Void, Bloodmoon, Batterskull, True-Name Nemesis, Choke, Trinisphere or any non boltable permanent but the simple answer is DON'T LET TROUBLESOME STUFF RESOLVE.
    If you are in the lategame without any board presence and they topdeck the zenith while you have nothing in Hand you would also have lost to a scavenging ooze, chalice, stoneforge or a naturally drawn knight so you were in a bad spot in the first place. You need to force you opponents to play into you softpermission by applying pressure with your creatures.
    You are probably right. Just everything looks fine, then suddenly they deluge my goose and put a knight in and I am dead. One needs to learn to play this deck max efficiently, not to get out of gas.

  6. #2286

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    If Knight Decks are realy an issiue in your meta you should play 2 dismember main and maybe up the Number of submerge or mind harmness.

    When maverick was the Deck to beat i have seen Knight of the mists in some sideboards :D but it seems realy janky to me :D

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    i have seen Knight of the mists in some sideboards :D
    That is a very nice card :)
    We are safe if legacy gets ripped in pieces by knights on day :)

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Knight of the Mists was a Maverick / Dredge split card. I still have mine, and I tried very hard to justify playing them at Eternal Weekend; didn't get there =(
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  9. #2289

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Knight of the Mists was a Maverick / Dredge split card. I still have mine, and I tried very hard to justify playing them at Eternal Weekend; didn't get there =(
    Against dredge a three mana way to remove bridges seems pretty lackluster. I would bring them in if I had them in my sb for sure but considering it a anti dredge card seems ambitious to me O.o

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    The point is you get a lot of cards which deal with all this problems better like Artifact removal or recurring/mass removal.
    So I think stifle is easier to cut than Daze and Force as they present safe answers to all troublesome cards.
    I could see a point for keeping 1 or 2 Stifle over 1 or 2 Daze but I'm not 100% sure on this.
    Thanks for explaining in detail, I really appreciate that.
    I get your point but I still tend to disagree. I don't like having too much countermagic here for it gets worthless quickly if they stick a Vial or Cavern. Sure you can counter/destroy Vial itself but that still comes at the cost of one piece of countermagic or removal so not much is won here in my opinion.
    Stifle on the other hand often may be just a short time solution but more often than not this is just what I want in this matchup, another turn of dominating the board state and pushing through damage/force them to chump. Stifle is versatile here and pretty often enables another turn of "no changes" on the board - be it for denying (triggers of) equipment or a vial activation or maybe even a wisp trigger that otherwise would de-flip an Insectile Abberation.
    The fact that Stifle usually trades unfavorable here doesn't really count for me because that's what Stifle does most of the time it doesn't target a land and also we're a tempo deck and thus shouldn't care too much about CA. If our gameplan works as intended, the opponent will lose with a hand full of cards he just can't cast so trading 1 for 2 from time to time isn't that much of deal to me. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    I don't think so Grixis is only really better in the Storm Matchup and maybe some fringe stuff.
    Show and Tell - Stifle + Pierce do lot more than 3 cabal therapy here
    Elves - More Removal if you play Mandrills trample is HUGE
    Stoneblade & Miracles - Goose wins alone here in combination with so much counter magic its pretty good matchup
    Deathblade - More removal for manadorks + manadenial
    S'n'T - You may be right. I would still throw in that early Therapies with flashback can be devastating here as well. This however only does affect the early game.
    Elves - I don't play Mandrills. :( Regardless of that I think the matchup is unfavorable anyway, no matter what kind of Delver deck you play. You'll need to find your sideboard cards here.
    Stoneblade & Miracles - True that is.
    Deathblade - Haven't played this matchup from a Grixis point of view yet, but also seems legit.
    Then again I would mention Reanimator which is a huge thing right about now and has way more issues battleing DRS and stuff (Probe for example is great vs. chancellor) than it has beating countermagic alone as well as any deck that tries to chalice lock us. Chalice @ 1 is lethal to Canadian while Grixis can just fire off worthless spells and convert them into 1/1 token and/or delve them to an Angler.

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    This really depends on your list actually the Eldrazi Matchup is favored for you if you play Tarmogoyfs, if you dont its little bit worse than grixis.
    Dredge is totally up to your SB. Most of the time DRS is not enough to keep this deck under controll
    Infect is much easier for canadian as we have more removal and hardcounters for the Agent (if you play Snare)
    Miracle was undoubtly one of Canadians best matchups while it was pretty shacky for grixis.
    Miracles is a major reason to pick Canadian for sure but Miracles also has had lost a ton of weight when it comes to meta share right after SDT got banned. Right now it seems to be on its way back to the top because players seem to have realized that it still is a pretty decent deck without the CB/SDT lock. But between ban date and about now there was not much Terminus to be seen which made a point for Grixis.
    Shaman usually doesn't stop Dredge on his own but having shaman and a tiny bit of countermagic puts Dredge on a spot where they have to find at least 2 dredge cards, also you can sac token to CTs to trigger their Bridges. On the other hand Dredge could be more or less ignored as a matchup I think.
    Don't get me wrong, I also love playing Canadian way more than I do like playing Grixis but I still think Grixis currently is a good deck to play. It may have less really favorable matchups than Canadian but it also has less dead ends it could run into.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    Against dredge a three mana way to remove bridges seems pretty lackluster. I would bring them in if I had them in my sb for sure but considering it a anti dredge card seems ambitious to me O.o
    Back when Knight of the Mists was played, it think it was pretty deece because of how much worse Dredge was and a lot of the better hate didn't exist. You could never play it today and use Dredge as justification, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    stuff about Stifle vs. D&T
    I'm with MTB here, Stifle is really awkward vs. D&T in my experience, extra removal / ways to deal with Vial and equipment are better.


    Elves - I don't play Mandrills. :( Regardless of that I think the matchup is unfavorable anyway, no matter what kind of Delver deck you play. You'll need to find your sideboard cards here.
    I like Canadian vs. Elves, I dislike other Delver decks vs. Elves. It used to be a really bad matchup, but then they stopped playing 10 Forests and it got much better. Still not a great matchup if you go in unprepared. Monkeys are huge here, but you should try them anyway.

    Chalice @ 1 is lethal to Canadian while Grixis can just fire off worthless spells and convert them into 1/1 token and/or delve them to an Angler.
    You can't play a list from last year. Mandrils, True-Name, Tarmogoyf (not that it's playable right now) and Sulfuric Vortex all get through Chalice and you should play Ancient Grudge as well (the last list I played had 4 Mandrils, 3 Goyfs, 2 Vortex, 3 Grudge - Goyf was garbage, but you get the idea).
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  12. #2292
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    You can't play a list from last year. Mandrils, True-Name, Tarmogoyf (not that it's playable right now) and Sulfuric Vortex all get through Chalice and you should play Ancient Grudge as well (the last list I played had 4 Mandrils, 3 Goyfs, 2 Vortex, 3 Grudge - Goyf was garbage, but you get the idea).
    I want to have a little discussion right now about the creature suite and the flex slots.
    This is what i play right now:

    4 Delver
    3 Goose
    2 Mandrils
    2 TNN
    (note only 11 creatures, none in sideboard)

    3 Probe (i love to have the information what card i should play next, or not)
    2 Dismember (Angler, Eldrazi, Knight, Tombstalker)
    2 Spell Snare

    The rest is pretty stock. I have good results right now!
    Goose, Mandrils and TNN cant get hit by Push, Bolt, Decay
    Goose, TNN not by Swords
    The only problem is a huge creature or Strix.
    This is why i play 2 Dismember and 2 Snares (nice catch all).

    What are your thoughts ?
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo4488 View Post
    I want to have a little discussion right now about the creature suite and the flex slots.
    This is what i play right now:

    4 Delver
    3 Goose
    2 Mandrils
    2 TNN
    (note only 11 creatures, none in sideboard)

    3 Probe (i love to have the information what card i should play next, or not)
    2 Dismember (Angler, Eldrazi, Knight, Tombstalker)
    2 Spell Snare

    The rest is pretty stock. I have good results right now!
    Goose, Mandrils and TNN cant get hit by Push, Bolt, Decay
    Goose, TNN not by Swords
    The only problem is a huge creature or Strix.
    This is why i play 2 Dismember and 2 Snares (nice catch all).

    What are your thoughts ?
    Seems kind of weird to run 3 goose, goose is one of the biggest reasons to run this archetype still imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  14. #2294

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by diablo4488 View Post
    I want to have a little discussion right now about the creature suite and the flex slots.
    This is what i play right now:

    4 Delver
    3 Goose
    2 Mandrils
    2 TNN
    (note only 11 creatures, none in sideboard)

    ....

    What are your thoughts ?
    Ok so:

    Delver:
    Shines against Combo removal light Decks or Decks you need to clock fast e.g. Show&Tell, Reanimator, Maverick
    Bad against decks with a lot of removal e.g. Lands, mirror
    A backbone of the Deck nowadays as its rarely bad as its at least a fast cloock although prone to removal

    Nimble Mungoose:
    Shines against removal heavy/creature light Decks e.g. Stoneblade, Lands
    Bad against decks with a fast clock or giant undercosted beaters e.g. Eldrazi, Burn
    The classic threat of Canadian is definitly the best creature against Controll decks as its easy to cast and removal proof. That said against some decks its quite slow but against Combo its at least decent as you can deploy it fast without tapping out.

    Tarmogoyf:
    Shines against aggressiv decks without much ways to deal with it e.g. Eldrazi, Burn, Grixis Delver
    Bad against decks that rely at abrupt decay, fatal push or swords to plowhare as they are hard (or impossible) to counter and can handle the goyf easily e.g. Deathblade, Bug Delver
    Nowadays mostly obsolet as it is a bad choice in a meta full of decays and pushes. That said its quite handy against Grixis Delver and can give you an edge in some games as you can overrun your opponent "Zoo-Style" with a creature heavy draw. Pretty mediocre against combo as its rarely bigger than 3/4 and hard to deploy without tapping out.

    True-Name Nemesis:
    Shines against removal heavy/creature based Decks e.g. Death and Taxes, Stoneblade
    Bad against all sorts of Combo decks e.g. Storm, Show and Tell
    Often a 1 or 2 off in the main as it can seal the game pretty fast by providing an endless roadblock or clocking without any possible for most decks to interact with it. But for this deck 3 mana is a lot and it will often strand in your hand or is not deployable as its close to impossible to cast it against combo without tapping out. Also decent in the mirror but really hard to resolve against manadenial + Daze. Keep in mind postboard it trades poorly with REB.

    Hooting Mandrills:
    Shines against decks that rely on non white Removal spells / True-Name or you need to clock fast e.g. BUG (all variants), Grixis, Combo, Aggro Loam
    Bad against most of the "swords-Decks" or Jace (luckily the rest of the deck is pretty good against Jace) e.g. Stoneblade, Miracles
    A huge addon against decks where Mungoose doesnt shine e.g. Aggro Loam. The antisynergie with the Mungoose comes up from time to time but is woth it most of the time.

    Vendillion Clique:
    Shines against Combo and Control Decks e.g. Stoneblade, Show and Tell
    Bad against removal heavy/very redundant Decks e.g. Delver, Burn
    3 Mana is often an issue with Canadian and the effect is not that powerful so you maybe want it in the Sideboard but most of the time you can play cards that are more effective in the given Matchup e.g. Winter Orb/Sulfuric Vortex against Stoneblade or Fluster/Null Rod against Storm

    Grim Lavamancer:
    Shines against creature heavy Decks e.g. Death and Taxes
    Bad against creature less Decks e.g. Combo, Control
    Another "more sideboard card" as its pretty bad against Combo or Control (2 damage is a much too slow clock and the antisynergie with Mungoose and Mandrills is pretty bad)

    Snapcaster Mage:
    Shines against decks where you board in high value SB spells like Combo e.g. Show and Tell, Storm
    Bad against decks with a lot of blockers/creatures to race which makes the 2/1 body obsolet or against Decks which make the manacosts troublesome e.g. Delver, Death and Taxes
    Essentially a 3 mana creaure (except you flashback surgical) with a poor body (2/1 doesnt make the cut most of the time) so there are better options like Sylvan library (for card advantage) or straigther hate cards e.g. Null Rod against Storm

    Side note
    Other "playable creaure":
    Scavenign Ooze - Canadian only runs 3 green sources so this is very very slow but can come handy against Delver, Burn or Knight decks.

    Young pyromancer - Sometimes played as "additional shroud creature" but only playable with Probes and Canadian is a reactive deck at heart so with the incorporation of Probes you weaken the primary deck plan as you cut counter and removal.

    Deathrite - Needs 1 or 2 Useas in the deck which weakens the manabase a lot that said its pretty powerful and also enables a lot of powerful sb cards

    Cryptic serpent - Could be playable as 1 off has a decent antisynergie with Mandrills but plays quite well with goose. Loosing it to a REB sounds horrible and it wont survive a Gurmag Angler (at least it trades).

    Regarding your llist:

    I played a similar configuration at GP Vegas but -1 TNN +1 Goose as I really dislike TNN in some matchups while most of the time Mungoose is at least "Something" the TNN is often best used as pitch card. In my oppinion the Mainboard should be as lean as possible and Mungoose supports the gameplan much better than TNN as TNN is a mid-/lategame card while Mungoose provides staying power while also beeing easily castable. So I bring in a second TNN from the SB if I feel I need them and still have 5 shroud creatures MB.

    Kind regards,

    Marius

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    I'm with MTB here, Stifle is really awkward vs. D&T in my experience, extra removal / ways to deal with Vial and equipment are better.
    Yeah but the question is not "Stifle or removal?" - the question in my opinion is "Stifle or countermagic" since you usually won't have more than 6 cards you want to board in while on the other hand the most awkward cards in this matchup are amongst Force, Daze, Stifle, and Pierce which makes at least a total of 14. I usually end up siding out all Pierces and then shave some FoW/Daze (concrete numbers depend on who is the starting player, in general I like to side out 3-4 of those in total) and sometimes a Stifle or two, depending on the list I play. Worked out pretty well so far. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    I like Canadian vs. Elves, I dislike other Delver decks vs. Elves. It used to be a really bad matchup, but then they stopped playing 10 Forests and it got much better. Still not a great matchup if you go in unprepared. Monkeys are huge here, but you should try them anyway.
    I agree that Canadian feels much better Elves than other Delver decks. However I still don't like the matchup before boarding even though the figures don't lie and my overall rate vs. Elves is slightly positive.
    I tried the monkeys a couple of times yet always disliked them in the end. I might give them another shot but not until next week after Cardmarket Series Prague. I'm not going to experiment in that short amount of time any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    You can't play a list from last year. Mandrils, True-Name, Tarmogoyf (not that it's playable right now) and Sulfuric Vortex all get through Chalice and you should play Ancient Grudge as well (the last list I played had 4 Mandrils, 3 Goyfs, 2 Vortex, 3 Grudge - Goyf was garbage, but you get the idea).
    As a former president of the US once claimed, yes I can. ^^
    I like the streamline build more than ever, I think that being as efficient as can be is the key to victory in a meta full of greedy value decks. I agree on Vortex and Grudge, also I play 2 TNNs in my 75 but I also still like having Goyfs since they are less clunky while being the faster clock against many decks. Push is not that much of a factor in my opinion especially since it usually splits with or even takes the slots of Decay in most decks. I don't feel like I have to dodge this at any means.
    Efficiency is Canadian's greatest strength and the only way we can achieve tempo plays is by having efficient threats combined with low-cost permission, if I wanted to go for more value plays I would rather switch colors than trying to press it in a RUG shell.

  16. #2296
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Has anyone tested Abrade yet? I'm thinking in place of fork bolt and maybe 1 dismember or pierce.

    It's more removal when you need it and also blows out batterskull and other problematic artifacts.

    Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    Yeah but the question is not "Stifle or removal?" - the question in my opinion is "Stifle or countermagic" since you usually won't have more than 6 cards you want to board in while on the other hand the most awkward cards in this matchup are amongst Force, Daze, Stifle, and Pierce which makes at least a total of 14. I usually end up siding out all Pierces and then shave some FoW/Daze (concrete numbers depend on who is the starting player, in general I like to side out 3-4 of those in total) and sometimes a Stifle or two, depending on the list I play. Worked out pretty well so far. :)
    Countermagic is one way to deal with Vial and Equipment. I vastly prefer having Spell Pierce over having Stifle. Countering Vial is important and countering a Swords to Plowshares can also be very important. I generally don't cut any countermagic; the only exception is the random maindeck Flusterstorm I sometimes play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast View Post
    Efficiency is Canadian's greatest strength and the only way we can achieve tempo plays is by having efficient threats combined with low-cost permission, if I wanted to go for more value plays I would rather switch colors than trying to press it in a RUG shell.
    I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at. That being said, I agree that for example the Barb Ring + Loam package is not quite where you want to be in a number of matchups; it's just a tad too durdly a lot of the time and you often end up one land drop short of going completely out of hand with it and then you lose because of it. Then again, in some matchups it's downright amazing, mainly against the non-blue creature decks (D&T, Aggro Loam, Maverick), but also against the Delverless Stoneforge Mystic decks.

    And that is, in my opinion, the biggest problem for the deck right now; it's being pulled in so many completely different directions. Pretty much no matter what you do, you always end up with some really awkward matchups amongst the top decks. Maybe there is a way to perfectly adjust the deck to the current metagame, but I certainly haven't found it.


    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    Has anyone tested Abrade yet?
    I have. It's nice to have, which is annyoing because now there are like four different removal spells you have to choose from and I have no idea which is best. I'm thinking that it might be best to not care about big creatures, but that might be completely off.
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  18. #2298

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by mcbain View Post
    Has anyone tested Abrade yet? I'm thinking in place of fork bolt and maybe 1 dismember or pierce.

    It's more removal when you need it and also blows out batterskull and other problematic artifacts.

    Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
    Yeah I did. I played it in the SB slot of the second Grudge/Revelry and it was nice to have one additional removal against some decks.
    I played it against maverick and burn so far and I really liked the possibility to kill creatures as burn only plays bridge and maverick only has 3 equipments as target for artifact removal which makes bringing in Grudge/revelry little shaky....

  19. #2299
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Countermagic is one way to deal with Vial and Equipment. I vastly prefer having Spell Pierce over having Stifle. Countering Vial is important and countering a Swords to Plowshares can also be very important. I generally don't cut any countermagic; the only exception is the random maindeck Flusterstorm I sometimes play.
    Spell Pierce pretty often did nothing in this MU in my experience. They do not have plenty of targets for it and most of them can at least be delayed by Stifle. Yet I might give it another try some day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're getting at.
    It is our road to victory to not let the opponents follow their gameplan. To achieve this we try to at least delay any relevant play they want to commit (hello Cpt. Obvious). This won't work forever so inevitably the opponent will win over time for they usually play stronger effects than we do. I don't like adding some stronger effects to our shell which are good for themselves but struggle against the way Canadian usually wants to play. Tapping out for 3 in our own turn for a TNN opens a window where the opponent can without us having mana to react (sure we have FoW/Daze but those alone are not always enough). So rather than putting a fish into a Canadian shell just because it's a good card I would dismis almost any disruption that requires me to keep my mana open and build a shell that totally commits to tapping out and apply pressure from the start like Grixis or Team America.
    I admit that I am a little bit biased here. I don't like having a gameplan and then add some cards that just are good stuff but I want some kind of harmony within my deck. All cards should commit to a higher strategy in order to execute my gameplan as tight as it can be (even though I recently read an article that just embraces the opposite and reads like "doesn't matter if your cards don't cooperate if they hit your opponent harder than you" and I must admit the author's got a point there).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    That being said, I agree that for example the Barb Ring + Loam package is not quite where you want to be in a number of matchups; it's just a tad too durdly a lot of the time and you often end up one land drop short of going completely out of hand with it and then you lose because of it. Then again, in some matchups it's downright amazing, mainly against the non-blue creature decks (D&T, Aggro Loam, Maverick), but also against the Delverless Stoneforge Mystic decks.

    And that is, in my opinion, the biggest problem for the deck right now; it's being pulled in so many completely different directions. Pretty much no matter what you do, you always end up with some really awkward matchups amongst the top decks. Maybe there is a way to perfectly adjust the deck to the current metagame, but I certainly haven't found it.
    That is exactly what I think. You can't add a slow rolling grind engine to a deck that totally isn't designed to grind out a game at all. Sometimes it'll be amazing starting to deny the opponent a land or two and then starting the loam engine to ensure they will never again set foot in the game. Some other times it'll just make you stick around one mana short with no pressure to apply. The times it would be amazing then again often you could just stick a "real" threat and ride it to victory while the opponent tries to struggle his way out of the mana screw.
    So why try to adapt the deck to any possible scenario instead of just focussing on what we are best at? Sure the main plan can't always win but decreasing it for occasionally good cards (that may be crap from time to time) doesn't do so either. What I learned in Prague last week was once again that every deck can be denied its resources. I won games/matches against Food Chain, Jund and Blade with ease because they were unable to move due to me attacking their mana base - it sure would have been tough to win the grind against them. Unfortunately in the end I dropped at 3-3, I usually don't like to blame the deck and rather try to spot mistakes and misplays to improve but this time there wasn't much to play different - if you draw tons of Delvers, Mongooses and lands against combo decks you'll end up short on countermagic when they are going for the kill. :(

  20. #2300
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by MTB View Post
    Regarding your llist:

    I played a similar configuration at GP Vegas but -1 TNN +1 Goose as I really dislike TNN in some matchups while most of the time Mungoose is at least "Something" the TNN is often best used as pitch card. In my oppinion the Mainboard should be as lean as possible and Mungoose supports the gameplan much better than TNN as TNN is a mid-/lategame card while Mungoose provides staying power while also beeing easily castable. So I bring in a second TNN from the SB if I feel I need them and still have 5 shroud creatures MB.

    Kind regards,

    Marius
    Thank you for your thoughts.
    I switched the 2nd TNN for the 4th Goose.
    I'm not totaly sold on Mandrils... But much less on Goyf in this Push-meta.
    I also switched the 3 Probes against 2 Spell Pierce and 1 Forked Bolt (i feel now confident enough again with the deck without seeing their hand).
    How good is Library MB with 11 Creatures? I have the Forked Bolt as testing slot in it and Library in SB.
    Both are really good in the early (one answers problematic 1/2 drops, the other draws mostly 3 cards) and in the in the late game to push true the last 2 damage or find the bolt with the other one.
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