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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #1421
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeownyu View Post
    i just played a local legacy event and my two loses were both to omni tell in two games. absolutely destroyed me. I've been testing the MU with a friend and I didn't think it was too bad, but this was brutal.

    How are you all feeling about this MU. I've noticed i don't actually have that many cards to bring in post board. What do you all think about playing arcane laboratory? too narrow?

    Maindeck is standard 54 + 2 forked bolt + 4 pierce

    sideboard is
    1 flusterstorm
    1 sulfuric vortex
    1 pithing needle
    1 dismember
    1 ancient grudge
    1 k grip
    1 sylvan library
    1 sulfur elemental
    1 grafdigger's cage
    2 pyroblast
    2 submerge
    2 rough
    Are you sure. On the other side of the field, I think rug is the harder matchups.

  2. #1422

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by KobeBryan View Post
    Are you sure. On the other side of the field, I think rug is the harder matchups.
    it could have been the possibility of my two opponents just having the nuts. Also one of my matches i drew double mongoose and couldn't get it to threshold. If that was double delver it would have been way different. But as far as i can tell, wasteland and stifle aren't very good against omni. I have the pierces, dazes, and forces obviously, but they seem to always have enough counter back up. Goyf is hard to tap out for because it cost two mana, plus goyf is usually just a 3/4 in the matchup.

  3. #1423
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by eyeownyu View Post
    it could have been the possibility of my two opponents just having the nuts. Also one of my matches i drew double mongoose and couldn't get it to threshold. If that was double delver it would have been way different. But as far as i can tell, wasteland and stifle aren't very good against omni. I have the pierces, dazes, and forces obviously, but they seem to always have enough counter back up. Goyf is hard to tap out for because it cost two mana, plus goyf is usually just a 3/4 in the matchup.
    I see your problem

    Keep stifle and wasteland. It helps get rid of their duals and boseiju. If you keep them off red, they lose a valuable counter in REB. Boseiju is a must to keep off the board

    I'm nt sure of your list, but things to go out are 2 spell snare, bolts, and goyf. In, reb effects, any additional counters, and MAYBE a krosan grip.

  4. #1424

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So what's our gameplan versus grixis delver? I feel like this is a horrible matchup and an uphill battle against deathrites, anglers, and DTT allows them to be way ahead of us. Thoughts?

  5. #1425

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunday Funday View Post
    So what's our gameplan versus grixis delver? I feel like this is a horrible matchup and an uphill battle against deathrites, anglers, and DTT allows them to be way ahead of us. Thoughts?
    I've been testing with a friend on grixis delver and while I think it is in their favor, it's not impossible. Our advantage we have is stifle. We really need to attack their lands while keeping DRS off the table. Angler is good against our deck but delver still has flying. Deathrite is their most important card against us. It kills our threshold and it allows them to play multiple things per turn.

    Alot of times I've had them cast dig and it doesn't even matter because they either don't have enough lands to cast their spells to catch up to us or they are so low on life that they just die to our creatures.

  6. #1426

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I just finished winning my legacy gpt that got my byes locked in. It was a smaller tournament, but with a lot of the locals at eternal weekend I jumped at the chance to get my byes. Despite being a bit out of the way the tournament was great and I would like to give a shout out to Dylan Jupp owner of Geek Fortress for running a great event.

    Main Deck (60)
    Creatures (12)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf

    Spells (30)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Dismember

    Lands (18)
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction

    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Flusterstorm

    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Krosan Grip

    1 Sylvan Library
    2 Rough // Tumble
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 Submerge


    For starters I wasn’t really sure what would be at the tournament since it wasn’t my usual stomping grounds. I think this main deck configuration offers the widest coverage since the pierces/snares are good across the board. Dismember I thought would be the best choice since it really helps in tempo mirrors (goyf/zombie fish) and has its place vs Stoneblade, D&T and maverick as an answer to batterksull/knight/Brimaz.

    As for the sideboard I thought there might be some dredge decks since it was probably going to be a smaller less competitive tournament. That’s why I was packing surgical and cage when I normally just go with surgical. My usual field is heavier on really competitive tier 1 style delver, miracles, stoneblade, omni, storm etc so normally I don’t worry about dredge. This time though I just didn’t want to come unprepared and lose to some random dredge deck lol

    Sylvan I think will never leave my board that card is just a beast vs miracles, combo, stoneblade and other fair match ups.

    Sulfur elemental I hedged on because I thought there might be D&T, Maverick, UWx Mentor Builds and it’s not horrible vs Miracles.

    Grudge and Krosan Grip I don’t really like running at this point. At least running both I think is overkill when compared to a grip + null rod package. I think that’s the better configuration to prepare for miracles and stoneblade, but leaves you more vulnerable to actual artifact oriented decks like mud, tezzerator, chalice hate decks like aggro loam etc. I just wanted to play it safe and have the grudge + grip for chalice decks or something where I really want grudge.

    The rest is pretty standard countermagic suite, submerge and rough since without those some match ups you just can’t win. I wanted a Vortex in my board to round out my Stoneblade and Miracles match ups, but I didn’t think they would be well represented so I gambled and left the vortex in my binder.

    Now then onto the actual match ups.
    Round 1 Mud 2/0
    G1 OTP I kept a hand with goyf and some reactive spells. I played land go holding up a stifle. He led on cloud post go so I put him on 12 post and passed turn 2 holding stifle again for what I hoped be a misty instead he tried to play some broken artifact which I countered (I think it was trinisphere and I pierced). Turn 3 I landed goyf followed by wasteland turns 4 and 6 while countering some lock pieces along the way.

    SB – 4 stifles // + grudge, krosan grip, sylvan, Vendilion
    Stifle doesn’t do much in this match up to begin with other than protect our lands from waste and maybe get a kuldotha forgemaster trigger, but I think if they have 5 mana we’re losing anyways.

    G2 I kept a mull to 6 of delver, waste, fetch, snare, pierce, Goyf I think. Turn 1 he led on cloud post again. I pass holding up the pierce and snare and his Trinisphere gets pierced. The following turn I rip a land off the top and play delver out with snare back up. His turn he tries to resolve a chalice on 1 which got snared. My turn I play goyf out and waste him holding a force at this point. After that I made short work of his life total.

    Round 2 Burn 2/0
    G1 OTP I kept a delver hand with some reactive spells. I play out delver pass. He plays chain lightning targeting me. Delver flips and starts to beat face. My opponent got really unlucky and didn’t draw another for the majority of the game. He got a few burn spells off on me but the ones hitting my delver I countered and won at 12 life.

    SB – 4 stifles, - 2 dismember // + 2 fluster, 2 rough, vendilion, sulfur elemental
    Stifle is just really bad here otd and I wasn’t even sure if he was running fetches. I’m also pretty sure dismember despite being removal just needs to move to the board in this match up.

    G2 OTD I kept a really good hand with a goyf and goose. The first few turns I was getting beaten down by a Swiftspear which got bolted before it did any real harm. Once my threats got going though there wasn’t much he could do I was playing around price with my wastelands and had a fair amount of counter magic.

    Round 3 Lands 2/0
    G1 OTD my opponent is on a mull to 6 and leads mox diamond, land mana bond dump ghost quarter, maze, stage. My hand I kept had delver, delver, waste, 2 fetches and some other stuff. Anyways I lead on delver go my land gets ghost quartered. My first delver bricks but I play out my second one and brainstorm on upkeep in response to him porting me turn 3. Delvers flip and I waste his maze and start turning said delvers sideways. Shortly after that a bolt mops up the last damage I needed.

    SB – 4 daze, 2 dismember // + 2 flusterstorm, Krosan Grip, Surgical, Sylvan Library, Ancient Grudge

    G2 OTD I keep a hand of Force x 3, brainstorm, volcanic, goose. He tried to play out a turn 1 exploration which I forced. On my turn 2 I draw ancient grudge literally the worst thing I could draw there. I wanted to wait one more turn to before I brainstormed since I thought he might have a slow hand. He plays a port passes and ports me on upkeep I brainstorm into trop, delta, waste put back grudge, delta and then draw delta for the turn. I fetch up a trop play a goose and pass. He gambles on his turn for loam which hits the bin. I drew a second goose play it out and ponder seeing ponder, snare, waste keep since I needed a blue card to accompany my force and snare matches up well with loam. He tanks on his draw step and ends up drawing and then playing a land and passing. My turn I tank for a while with him at 18 since I can waste my second trop to go to threshold and put him on a 3 turn clock with his only outs being combo, tabernacle or bust. I go for it swing 6 pass. He draws a waste hits my last land plays a choke which I let resolve and passes. I draw my wasteland hit his port so that I could get some use with a land if I rip one and he falls to 6. Luckily he drew a bojuka bog here which bought him more time but the geese got there in the end. This was by far my favorite game of the day hands down.

    We talked about it and when he was tanking about dredging loam he had put me on having some counters in hand which was absolutely right so just natural draw was the right way to go.

    Round 4 Reanimator 0/2 technically I could have just ID, ID from here, but I knew what he was on it’s not a terrible match up and I wanted the higher seed for top 8. Regardless I was a lock for top 8 at loss then ID.
    G1 OTD He entombs at my end step which I force and he forced back so that resolved. Then the next turn he reanimates while I look stupid holding up a land and spell snare. Not much really happened here this game just sometimes they get you.

    SB – 2 dismember, 2 goyf, 4 bolt // + 2 flusterstorm, pyroblast, red elemental blast, sylvan library, vendilion clique, grafdigger’s cage, surgical extraction

    I’m not 100% sure if bolts are better or worse here then pyros/rebs. Bolts do help goose grow and close the window for him to reanimate faster. Rebs and pyros on the other hand allow us to let him make the first move then have more countermagic to fight back with. I’m curious what your guys’ thoughts are here. I’m also interested in what you think is better to counter their entombs or reanimation spells? I think entomb is almost always the better counter target since they have fewer ways to bin a fatty than they do to reanimate one.

    G2 OTP I play a land pass he entombs on his turn off of sea I pierce and he dazes already off to a bad start. My turn I do something mostly irrelevant and pass. He reanimates I force and he forces back. There really wasn’t anything I could have done differently either games he played tight and just had the combo + protection.

    Round 5 ID with the other Reanimator player in the room.

    Top 8:
    1st Grixis Control
    2nd Reanimator
    3rd Lands
    4th Me
    5th Reanimator
    6th Turbo Depths
    7th Miracles
    8th Zombardment

    Quarters I play against the guy I drew with and I narrowly have better tie breakers at the 4th seed and him being at the 5th.

    G1 OTP I keep a hand with goyf, goose, stifle, some lands and a counter or two I think. I play land go. He fetches turn 1 and I stifle which resolves and he didn’t seem that down so I thought he had more lands in hand. He knew what I was on so my worst fear was he kept a 3 lander and my stifle was just irrelevant. My turn I play out goyf pass. He moves to discard pitches a fatty. I play out goose pass he draws passes again. Goyf and goose start going to work on his life total. I get there but he said after the game his hand was fine since it was close to going off and had cantrips + combo just no protection. He could have easily found the protection and extra lands just the hand didn’t line up with stifle. That aside if everyone mulled hands that lost to stifle RUG Delver would win a lot more lol so I think it was a fine keep.

    SB – 2 dismember, 4 goyf, 2 bolt // + 2 flusterstorm, pyroblast, red elemental blast, sylvan library, vendilion clique, grafdigger’s cage, surgical extraction
    I’m pretty sure OTD we just don’t want goyf since reanimator is by far the fastest competitive combo deck and tapping out for a threat turn 2 seems really bad.

    G2 OTD I mull to 6 and keep a sketchy hand of volcanic x 2, sylvan, cage, goyf, goyf. I think the hand is better than a 5 since it has a cage and with me being otd I have 2 draws to find a trop/cantrip. Anyways this game went south real fast with him decaying my cage turn 2 and going off the following turn with me having a hand full of green spells I couldn’t play.

    SB – 2 dismember, 2 goyf, 4 bolt // + 2 flusterstorm, pyroblast, red elemental blast, sylvan library, vendilion clique, grafdigger’s cage, surgical extraction

    G3 OTP I get arguably the best possible hand I could have asked for delver, force, stifle, brainstorm, surgical extraction, daze, fetch. I lead on delver go and he fetches and cantrips turn 1. Turn 2 delver flips and swings in I cantrip finding another land and a goyf and pass. He passes after playing his second land. I played out a goyf swung with delver passed. His turn he played out a hapless researcher passes. I swing in he blocks my goyf and then decays my delver which sets me back followed by him decaying my goyf on his turn as well. Luckily I ripped another goyf off the top. On his turn he plays another researcher to block and passes. I drew sylvan library swing and pass he tries to entomb which I pierce still having my surgical in hand but not wanting him to have another fatty in the bin as a backup for if he goes for it. I put him on baiting out my pierce since it had flipped delver but because of my surgical I actually wanted to pierce the entomb. He goes for it with animate dead I force he misdirects back I surgical and griselbrands go away forever. He then reanimates (at this point he’s at 5) his hapless researcher passes. I swing in for lethal now and he blocks sacks draws. He cantrips and then goyf goes in for the kill.
    We talked about it afterwards and we both seemed to agree the matchup is somewhat roll dependent. Whoever is otp is definitely favored more so for reanimator than rug. If we’re otp then we can interact with their mana more if they’re otp then our countermagic may as well just be force, pierce, snare and daze becomes irrelevant. The other interesting thing apparently his entomb I pierce he just wanted for a shuffle effect for the brainstorm he just played. He still got a shuffle from my surgical, but I had put him on binning Ionna to lock up the board more so than griselbrand would or something like that.

    Semifinals Grixis Control
    G1 OTD Having played this match up a lot I think it’s heavily favored for RUG. Essentially all we need to do is stick one of our green threats and keep their young pyromancer and pyromancer ascension off the table.

    He preordained turn 1 bottomed both pass. I led on goose and passed. I think he pondered or something on his turn I’m pretty sure that’s all that deck does is play 3 cantrips as its first spells lol. My turn I cantrip and pass holding up double pierce, bolt, dismember snare. He probes and therapies away my two pierces and then passes. On my turn I land a goyf and pass. He’s at 12 fetches, gitaxian probes falling to 9 and then therapies again I brainstorm in response putting dismember and bolt on top. His therapy misses and I reveal double force he passes back. I tank for a while looking at my board and thinking what he could possibly have. I waste his underground sea move to combat swing with goose + goyf check for blockers since he had 2 mana up and for all I know he could have snapcaster. No blocks I bolt and fetch to get to threshold with force back up putting his outs to something like force + pyroblast since I could pay for pierce. He didn’t have it and I got there.

    SB – 4 daze, 4 stifle, 1 wasteland // + 2 flusterstorm, pyroblast, red elemental blast, sylvan library, 2 rough, vendilion clique, Krosan Grip
    I think if we’re otd game 2 we should try and take the control role. They don’t have a clock really so we can just sculpt the early turns. Our clocks on the other hand goyf and goose at least they can’t interact with so just find a good time to jam one of them. Keep in mind if they have an active ascension out a goyf can still die with sorcery land in the bin because the copy goes on the stack targets the goyf hits the bin then disappears and goyf is still a 2/3 from sorcery/land and dies. I found that out the hard way at a weekly a while ago.

    G2 OTD This game went pretty much the same as the last. I resolved 2 geese and slowly poked away at his life total while he cantripped trying to find something. I did pyroblast his brainstorm since that was the one thing he played at that point (turn 3 or 4 I think) that I actually cared about. The geese got there eventually and he revealed his hand of volc, bolt, bolt, pyroblast, pyroblast, force, force. He had just been drawing dead the past few turns. Well not dead exactly just nothing that interacted with goose. This match up I think is really easy just so long as you keep ascension off the table and young pyromancer.

    Finals Miracles Luckily I have the higher seed so I get to be otp :D
    G1 I got a really fast clock of turn 1 delver into turn 2 goyf followed by holding up countermagic. Turn 4 he finally found a swords for my goyf with him at 3 at this point which I let resolve since my delver was still lethal. He just couldn’t find the other answer to stabilize. I think this is one of the better hands vs miracles but it’s also very frail if they just draw well and get a terminus with countermagic. I definitely like these hands more than goose though were the first few turns you’re afraid of your best threat getting ambushed by a snapcaster lol

    SB – 4 daze, 2 dismember, 1 waste, 1 goyf, 1 bolt // + 2 flusterstorm, pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Sylvan, Krosan Grip, Vendilion Clique, Sulfur Elemental
    I usually board out 1 more wasteland, but he seemed to fetch duals more aggressively than most miracle players I’ve played against.

    G2 I was on a mull to 5 I think and the game was over before it started to be honest. He resolved counter lock turn 4 I think and followed up with a mentor which made short work of my life total.

    G3 I kept a solid hand with snare, pyroblast, goyf, some lands and a cantrip I think. I played out a land ponder and passed. He fetched up island top pass. I was really worried about getting locked out by counter balance so I played another land pass holding up snare pyroblast. He played a land and passed after that I had 1 more land so I planned to pass once more hoping he would jam counterbalance before I would try and play out a goyf. He did luckily and I won the counter war I snared he pyroblasted back and I pyroblasted his counterbalance. I played out goyf on my turn pass. His turn he played out a mentor and passed. I pondered into bolt for his mentor and then passed back. On my EOT he looked at the top 3 and flipped top followed by playing out another mentor and playing his top which I pierced this time around. My next turn I brainstormed and had the hand of force, delver, stifle, pyroblast, goyf, snare and put back stifle and pyroblast planning to play delver out that turn followed by playing goyf out the next turn with force + pyroblast back up and then so long as he didn’t terminus I would draw my stifle. It all worked out he was pretty much hell bent after I pierced his top. He tried to brainstorm on his turn which I pyroblasted. My goyfs and delver started to edict away his board of mentor and his snapcaster. In his darkest hour he did naturally draw the miracle terminus only to meet my stifle. It was definitely a close game.

  7. #1427
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Nice detailed report! I like your sideboarding explanations in particular.

  8. #1428
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    grats contractkiller for an amazing finish for team RUG!
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  9. #1429
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Great sideboarding plan and right way to play the different matchups!
    One of the best post i've seen in the last times!

  10. #1430

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    Round 4 Reanimator 0/2 technically I could have just ID, ID from here, but I knew what he was on it’s not a terrible match up and I wanted the higher seed for top 8. Regardless I was a lock for top 8 at loss then ID.
    G1 OTD He entombs at my end step which I force and he forced back so that resolved. Then the next turn he reanimates while I look stupid holding up a land and spell snare. Not much really happened here this game just sometimes they get you.

    I don't think it is correct to counter their spells to get fatties into the graveyard, but rather the reanimate spells.

  11. #1431

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by echofish View Post
    I don't think it is correct to counter their spells to get fatties into the graveyard, but rather the reanimate spells.
    I don't know.

    At least half of their reanimate spells cost 2, and he had a snare, so there's over a 50% chance that he can still counter it if he loses the first counter-war.

    Also you wouldn't counter careful study? Draw 2 enablers, bin 2 fatties in your hand. Seems like countering would be better than countering their turn 2 reanimate, only for them to have drawn a second reanimate.
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  12. #1432

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by echofish View Post
    I don't think it is correct to counter their spells to get fatties into the graveyard, but rather the reanimate spells.
    Well let me rephrase that "do you think countering entomb is right if they don't have a fatty in the bin already? " It's the most direct way for them to combo off. If entomb fails then they have to careful study and have a fatty in hand or top 2 or worse yet thoughtseize themselves. There's also a good chance if you don't daze entomb they play reanimate turn 2 and daze is dead anyways.

    I'm almost 100% sure this is right unless it's post board. Post board they might have brought in show and tell as plan b and could be baiting a counterspell. Main deck though it turns a two card combo into a three card combo:
    entomb + reanimate vs fatty + discard + reanimate

    Pyroblast I'm still not sure about in this match up. I think it might be better than bolt otd. Otp I think bolts are better than pyroblast if that's what's left to cut.

  13. #1433

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    They usually have more ways of getting cards into the gy. Entomb, Careful Study, Thoughtseize and discard to hand size. Also, if you let the Entomb resolve and counter the reanimate spell, you have virtually 2-for-1-ed them, until they find another reanimate spell. And here in the mean time, you could draw gy hate.

    The exception would ofc be that if you have Daze as countermagic. Then they could play another land and play Reanimate.

  14. #1434

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by echofish View Post
    They usually have more ways of getting cards into the gy. Entomb, Careful Study, Thoughtseize and discard to hand size. Also, if you let the Entomb resolve and counter the reanimate spell, you have virtually 2-for-1-ed them, until they find another reanimate spell. And here in the mean time, you could draw gy hate.

    The exception would ofc be that if you have Daze as countermagic. Then they could play another land and play Reanimate.
    I don't understand how you count letting entomb resolve and then countering the reanimation spell a two for one. They trade the card entomb to put a creature in the graveyard. If we counter the reanimate spell the creature is still in the graveyard. If we counter entomb then they have to still get a fatty in the bin.

    Yes they do have other ways to get a creature in the bin other than just entomb. That's not the point I was trying to make. The main advantage to entomb is it fetches the fatty and puts it into the bin. To careful study or thoughtseize they still need the fatty in hand to set up their combo. Entomb is the most efficient way for them to get a fatty in the bin where as the others are more clunky requiring to have a fatty in hand in addition to careful study or thoughtseize.

    I'm not saying that entomb is their only way to get a fatty in the bin. It's just if we counter entomb when they don't have a fatty already in there it slows them down a lot. Now they have to cantrip find a fatty, find a way to bin said fatty and have the reanimation spell. It gives us a huge tempo boost by setting their strategy back a lot. It also turns all of their reanimation spells into bricks where as if we let entomb resolve they have 8 live spells. The difference with countering entomb is they have:
    8 live spells (careful study + thoughtseize) if the condition "fatty in hand" is met

    If you make the comparison of reanimator to omnitell you can make this analogy. Entomb is the equivalent of a cantrip that gets omniscience in hand. Once that's complete they just need Show and Tell to go off. I don't see any reason we would let that cantrip resolve so they could make setting their combo up easier.

  15. #1435
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    If you make the comparison of reanimator to omnitell you can make this analogy. Entomb is the equivalent of a cantrip that gets omniscience in hand. Once that's complete they just need Show and Tell to go off. I don't see any reason we would let that cantrip resolve so they could make setting their combo up easier.
    Very nice comparison. I've always told people to go after the Entombs and Careful Studies, but haven't been able to explain it as well as you.
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  16. #1436

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    If you make the comparison of reanimator to omnitell you can make this analogy. Entomb is the equivalent of a cantrip that gets omniscience in hand. Once that's complete they just need Show and Tell to go off. I don't see any reason we would let that cantrip resolve so they could make setting their combo up easier.
    So you counter all the cantrips when you play against Omnitell, instead of saving them for Show and Tell, which they have four of?

    Your comparison goes in favor for my argument. You can't counter every cantrip from Omnitell, as well as it is useless trying to keep Reanimator's graveyard clean at all times.

    Why would you care if they have a creature in the bin? It doesn't do anything. When they Entomb, they are one-for-zeroing themselves.

  17. #1437
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by echofish View Post
    So you counter all the cantrips when you play against Omnitell, instead of saving them for Show and Tell?
    No, because unlike Entomb in this comparison, not all of Omnis cantrips draw a combo piece. You've missed his point completely.
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Imo it's a bit more subtle than this. Main reason to go after the bin-creature plan rather than the reanimation plan is that we can't really let careful study resolve. Because we can't let half the bin-creature plan resolve, it's probably better to focus on hating this one. That's also why the pair of Show and Tell they are now playing is scary, makes their deck less easy to shut down completely.

  19. #1439

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Here's my take since I play Reanimator as well. Reanimator only had 8 cards to bin their creatures and had 9-10 cards to put their creature into play, barring the show and tell plan. Careful study also lets them dig hard for stuff.

    Stopping the Reanimator player from putting stuff in the bin means they'll have to use two cards to go on their reanimation plan.

  20. #1440

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    As a Reanimator player as well: Entomb is the best card in the deck. I will never be unhappy drawing it. It is an absolute must-counter. Careful Study is a bit more loose since it's still card disadvantage but it doesn't guarantee a fatty in the yard -- I'll often use it to bait out counters, and to ditch extra lands in my hand. It's not wrong to counter it, but your decision should be based more on the current gamestate rather than any hard and fast rule.

    But seriously, very rarely should you ever be okay with Entomb resolving.

    Edit: Here's another way of looking at it -- Study and Entomb will always be useful as the game progresses. Even if RIP is out I'll sometimes Entomb away a dead card to increase odds of drawing a Decay or S&T. However, Reanimation spells are outright useless without a target. If you deny the player a target, you make 18% of their deck dead draws.

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