[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[sawatarix]

I'm talking about a little bit differnet rug delver approach by me and Hans Jacob Kuhlmann Goddik who is a experienced RUG Delver player for many years as I am.
When True Name Nemesis came out, he immediately cut tarmofgoyfs for the merfolk to get a better mathup against grindy decks with a lot of removal spells.

Here is our testing list which includes both nimble mongoose and tresure cruise.Don't get me wrong, this list is far from perfect but it works so far.

"Canadian ******** 2014"

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 True Name Nemesis

3 Treasure Cruise
4 Thought Scour
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle

4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt

4 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn


Sb:

3 Pyroblast
3 Rough/Tumble (Plague Wind against UR-Delver)
2 Ancient Grudge (great synergy with thought scour)
1 Life from the Loam(great synergy with thought scour)
3 Spell Pierce (better against miracle, otherwise would be flusterstorm)
2 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Green Sun's Zenith (against decks with a lot of removal spells i board out all delver and bring in zenith to play a 'nimble mongoose-control deck'


It has been pretty good so far but as i said before, not 100% ideal.
Hans jacob also thouht about 1 Mental Note as the 5th Thought Scour instead of the 4th stifle, don't know if we need it.

[keys]

Mongoose + Treasure Cruise is so ham-fisted.

Just play one or the other. Or splash a different color.

[index]

3 Rough//Toumble with 2 Tnn and a most of the time small nimble mongoose ? I would say Electrickery fits way better in the deck.

[sdematt]

I'm going to be trying Rough/Tumbles in the main to see how they work out instead of Cruise. So far, definitely some blow outs. Mandrills is still performing well.

-Matt

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I'm going to be trying Rough/Tumbles in the main to see how they work out instead of Cruise. So far, definitely some blow outs. Mandrills is still performing well.

-Matt

I'm testing a list of 54 RUG, 2 Pierce, Snare, Chain Lightning, Gone and Forked Bolt. While I like CL for the ability to end games (or at least Serra Avengers), I might cut it for Rough. It kills Elves (with our cantrip suite it shouldn't be impossible to find it in time before Elves explode, namely if the other bolts slow the opponent), it's good against DnT and it makes wonders against DRS/Bob/SFM decks. Not to mention that it destroys a line of goblin tokens longer than what Charlie Sheen snorts on average night.

[SORO]

I'm testing a list of 54 RUG, 2 Pierce, Snare, Chain Lightning, Dead and Forked Bolt. While I like CL for the ability to end games (or at least Serra Avengers), I might cut it for Rough. It kills Elves (with our cantrip suite it shouldn't be impossible to find it in time before Elves explode, namely if the other bolts slow the opponent), it's good against DnT and it makes wonders against DRS/Bob/SFM decks. Not to mention that it destroys a line of goblin tokens longer than what Charlie Sheen snorts on average night.

It looks nice, but Gitaxian Probe is great showing the gameplan we have to execute and feeding goose. The unsolvable question RUG players have.

On the other hand, I have put into the sideboard Sylvan Library and the results are excellent. Often, playing it aggressively is brutal against control decks.

[Asthereal]

I see lots of guys here are trying to figure out how to play Cruise in this deck.
Goose doesn't like that very much, so I was looking for replacements for him.

What do you guys think about:
1. Hidden Gibbons
2. Hidden Herd

Herd will usually transform quite fast, since we disrupt their mana, so they will be playing lands all the time.
Gibbons takes longer, but it's the bigger beatstick. Gibbons might be weak against Elves, D&T and MUDish decks though.
I do admit that both are terrible late game topdecks, but we tend to try not go into the late game anyway.
Would these be worth testing?

[Whitefaces]

Funny you mention them, I've just ordered Hidden Gibbons to try out in a number of different tempo builds.

[Goddik]

Hi guys,

Havent played the goose cruise deck much recently, as i found team America to be really good pre-new jersey. With the advent of stoneblade as dtb, this deck might deserve a revisit.

Just to chime in with Sawatarix. The deck is much better than it looks. It crushes miracles, and should have a very good stoneblade matchup, so it should be well positioned. It is a bit awkward though and can suffer from being weak in the early game. I am not sure if this ïs fixable....

Goose and cruise aren't that incompatible, try it out :-)

Thought scour is the best card in the deck, and i am certainly happy with a mental note. I might even want 2. Scour supercharges your mongese and cruises like crazy..

My sideboard is a bit different, here it is for reference

2 envelop
2 flusterstorm
2 rough tumble, 2 electrickery
3 pyro
1 sylvan library
1 krosan grip
2 destructive revelry

Cheers
Hans Jacob

[FoolofaTook]

I see lots of guys here are trying to figure out how to play Cruise in this deck.
Goose doesn't like that very much, so I was looking for replacements for him.

What do you guys think about:
1. Hidden Gibbons
2. Hidden Herd

Herd will usually transform quite fast, since we disrupt their mana, so they will be playing lands all the time.
Gibbons takes longer, but it's the bigger beatstick. Gibbons might be weak against Elves, D&T and MUDish decks though.
I do admit that both are terrible late game topdecks, but we tend to try not go into the late game anyway.
Would these be worth testing?

The best one drop in Legacy right now is Deathrite Shaman. Twisting into knots to find a replacement for Nimble Mongoose shouldn't be necessary. One more land, an Underground Sea and maybe replace one of the Volcanic Islands with an Underground Sea and the transformation is complete. RUG Canadian is playing 4 Stifle so protecting a 4-color manabase, particularly when one of the colors is only splashed for an activation cost shouldn't be hard.

I get that Nimble Mongoose does something really unique in the theme but once you've decided to replace it that's not really relevant. DRS is the best and it casts for green at 1cc. That's got to be the answer.

[cheerios]

Has anyone tried cutting the delvers with the cruise lists?

Cheers

[Bed Decks Palyer]

The best one drop in Legacy right now is Deathrite Shaman. Twisting into knots to find a replacement for Nimble Mongoose shouldn't be necessary. One more land, an Underground Sea and maybe replace one of the Volcanic Islands with an Underground Sea and the transformation is complete. RUG Canadian is playing 4 Stifle so protecting a 4-color manabase, particularly when one of the colors is only splashed for an activation cost shouldn't be hard.

I get that Nimble Mongoose does something really unique in the theme but once you've decided to replace it that's not really relevant. DRS is the best and it casts for green at 1cc. That's got to be the answer.

This will bring you in completely different direction, I beleive. When you look up the bUrg thread, you'll notice that they abandoned Stifles, added Decays, cut Goyfs to three, etc. It's a different deck and once you add USeas and DRS, there's no reason why to remain in RUG without incorporating powerful cards like Decay.

Has anyone tried cutting the delvers with the cruise lists?

Cheers

Oops, no... Why?

[sawatarix]

Just a stupid question to all Hardcore-RUG Players out there who still play this deck:

How do you ever win against other delver decks with Treasure Cruise. Most of the time these games are either over pretty quickly (because one player has 2-3 delver of secrets or 2+ wastelands or other blowouts) or they are pretty grindy where both players try to establish a board with enough lands and creatures.
Meanwhile a lot of cards will fill our graveyards but our opponent is the only one who can exploit this advantage by casting treasure cruise while we cannot because of nimble mongoose.

I mean, RUG Delver hasn't been at its best after Return of Ravnica was released but now its getting worse.
i really don't want to be the one who can't use treasure cruise.
Daryl Ayers for example showed me his RUG List he piloted at GP New Jersey to a Top100 finish or so with an interesting approach: Instead of Nimble Mongoose he chose Kird Ape alongside treasure cruise and many bolts.Well, afterwards he told me that Kird Ape was good but not awesome and i can just agree.

In my opinion we NEED to find a way to include Treasure Cruise in our deck to have an edge in the format, especially because we are an 1-for-1 deck.
But i'm neither convinced of young pyromancer nor kird ape.
Any Ideas?

[blablub]

i think i will try the list with 3 mungos and 2 TC someone posted above :)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Just a stupid question to all Hardcore-RUG Players out there who still play this deck:

How do you ever win against other delver decks with Treasure Cruise. Most of the time these games are either over pretty quickly (because one player has 2-3 delver of secrets or 2+ wastelands or other blowouts) or they are pretty grindy where both players try to establish a board with enough lands and creatures.
Meanwhile a lot of cards will fill our graveyards but our opponent is the only one who can exploit this advantage by casting treasure cruise while we cannot because of nimble mongoose.

I mean, RUG Delver hasn't been at its best after Return of Ravnica was released but now its getting worse.
i really don't want to be the one who can't use treasure cruise.
Daryl Ayers for example showed me his RUG List he piloted at GP New Jersey to a Top100 finish or so with an interesting approach: Instead of Nimble Mongoose he chose Kird Ape alongside treasure cruise and many bolts.Well, afterwards he told me that Kird Ape was good but not awesome and i can just agree.

In my opinion we NEED to find a way to include Treasure Cruise in our deck to have an edge in the format, especially because we are an 1-for-1 deck.
But i'm neither convinced of young pyromancer nor kird ape.
Any Ideas?

You mix two things together.
First, we defeat UR by the sheer power of our creatures, whereas they got a mere 1/2 and similar stuff. Swiftspear is pretty unintersésting when there's no way how to feed the card. Delver dies to anything as usual and this leaves them with what, Goblin Guide or Grim? It's pretty unlikely for any creature other than Monastery dude to survive. (Depending on RUG build, of course.)
They often don't play Stifles, so there's so much less pressure against our manabase and we are allowed to play our game. Post-board bring Roughs and Pblasts to make their day worse.
I'm not saying it's a positive matchup, but it's not that bad as say Miracles or Pox or w/e.

Speaking of TC and its inclusion... Well, you already listed why NM is the (second) best green creature. If you drop it, you may simply rop the whole green. And NM+TC works bad. I think it's a calculated disadvantage, we don't play TC (which is bad) but we play NM (which is good) and as the two cannot be combined, we decided forwhat matters more in our eyes.
I just won another game where my opponent was left with unusable removal, this time with 2 Swords and 3 Decays. No other creature would finish that game...

[B88]

hi there!!!
i've just finished a tournament. we were 104 people, and i made top8 with the same list that i've won another 45 tournament: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=15237 .
i just change 2burst for 2forked because i thought that i could find many uwr or ur, but in the end nothing!

swiss:
T1- Lands! won 2-0
T2- Team america won 2-1
T3- Miracle lost 0-2 (first game i drew only lands, and game 2 6lands and delver who wouldn't flip for 3turns and then he dopdeck angels when he was on 1life!!!!)
T4- Team america won 2-1
T5- dark maverick won 2-0
T6- ID

top8
a friend of mine with Lands! again! and this time i lost!

anyway the deck was very strong and works well, very happy about it!

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Grats!
I always thought about Burst Lightning, the smaller brother of Urza'sRage. (Kind of...) But at the end I was afraid tha the kicker is one mana too expensive, and FB has the added utility of being a possible 2-for-1 and a Goyf feed. So yeah, it seems better.

What are the opinions/experiences with Gone? I like how it stops DRS and can temporaly remove Goyf/Stalker/KotR, but I dislike that it cannot deal direct dmg to players. I'm considering some burn-heavy list, as there are lots of Delvers/DRS/SFM/Elves in our meta, yet Chain Lightning is a no-no in UR field, FB is too little, Burst L. is unrealiable and D/G cannot hit players/PWs.

[B88]

thaks!
burst was there beacuse i want an istant remuval similar to bolt, but tarfire make also other goyf biger and if you aspected many uwr or ur, forked is the best one, indeed i thought to plain in the maindeck rought/tumble!!!
anyway i've never tryed dead/gone but in a deck like canadian i would not play a remuval that can't hit life!

[edahl]

Has anyone tried cutting the delvers with the cruise lists?

Cheers

Yes! Taking a queue from BBD's midrange list and switching out the white stuff with good green cards gives a pretty polished strong list. Not too sure about the sideboard (which of course suffers under lack of white). Beat UWR midrange and BUG Delver quite comfortably yesterday (2-0). Against UR I think it's pretty good if piloted correctly: I played disgustingly bad with a Jitte in play against PoP, lost 0-2 but both games were very winnable.

Creature (10)
4x Tarmogoyf
2x True-Name Nemesis
4x Young Pyromancer

Instant (18)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Punishing Fire
1x Pyroblast
2x Spell Pierce

Sorcery (12)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Treasure Cruise

Artifact (1)
1x Engineered Explosives

Land (19)
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island

Sideboard (15)
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Krosan Grip
2x Pithing Needle
2x Pyroblast
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Library
2x Umezawa's Jitte

[Bobmans]

Yes! Taking a queue from BBD's midrange list and switching out the white stuff with good green cards gives a pretty polished strong list. Not too sure about the sideboard (which of course suffers under lack of white). Beat UWR midrange and BUG Delver quite comfortably yesterday (2-0). Against UR I think it's pretty good if piloted correctly: I played disgustingly bad with a Jitte in play against PoP, lost 0-2 but both games were very winnable.

Creature (10)
4x Tarmogoyf
2x True-Name Nemesis
4x Young Pyromancer

Instant (18)
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Punishing Fire
1x Pyroblast
2x Spell Pierce

Sorcery (12)
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Ponder
4x Treasure Cruise

Artifact (1)
1x Engineered Explosives

Land (19)
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Tropical Island
4x Volcanic Island

Sideboard (15)
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Blue Elemental Blast
2x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Krosan Grip
2x Pithing Needle
2x Pyroblast
2x Scavenging Ooze
1x Sylvan Library
2x Umezawa's Jitte

I had a similar list pre-khans. The concept is awesome. I think that 4 cruise in a deck with punishing fire is to much. Also i dont know about those probes. On paper you have a total of 16 card draw spells, so drawing into draw spells is kinda crap. In that list i ran Grim lavamancer instead of Pyromancer of course thats doesnt apply now. I can see 4 YP, 3 Goyf, 3 TNN split, but thats personal. You might wanna cut either 4 cruises and probes for say 2 DTT 4 more lands and some more disruption OR just keep 2 cruises instead of DTT. This list is really mana hungry. Also cant really speak about tempo anymore Also i found during testing i wanted 2 pyroclasm and 2 engineered explosives in the 75. This deck is a house versus D&T. My land config was 4 grove, 2 island, 1 mountain, 1 forest, 4 scalding tarn, 2 Wooded, 2 misty, 2 volc, 2 trop and 3 wasteland. Also my meta is different. Less blue, more varied lists.
Anyway i suppose that the list can be like how BBD played it or like the various other lists like whatever.

There is a thread called Next Level Threshold where i think this belongs.