[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[wcm8]

Finished 11-4. Fingers crossed for making cut for top 64. My other loss was to GB grindy elves.

I did not face Miracles a single time, and never actually resolved a Winter Orb the entire tournament.

Had I been placed at the higher tables where all the Miracles players were congregated, they would've been fantastic. But GPs are just so random. Definitely learned my lesson about respecting the DnT matchup though. To be honest, it seemed very beatable in testing, but maybe the online pilots were just way worse.

[LewisCBR]

Definitely learned my lesson about respecting the DnT matchup though. To be honest, it seemed very beatable in testing, but maybe the online pilots were just way worse.

Historically, it is supposed to be one of the harder match-ups for this deck.

[wcm8]

I didn't make the cut to top 64 as my tie-breakers were quite awful; though to be fair, almost everyone who made top 33 thru 64 had 33 points (11-4 records) which is what I got. And had this been a slightly larger event, the pay-out would have extended beyond and I would have made some money.

Alas.

I might write up a bit more in-depth report later, but here is the gist of it:

Went in with 0 byes, which always makes it harder.

Day 1
Rd1: 1-2 vs. UW DnT (blue splash for Geist of St. Traft and Meddling Mage in the board. I lost a VERY close game 3 when he was able to vial in a 2nd geist for exactly lethal dmg; he would've died on the back swing)
Rd2: 2-0 vs. DnT (mono-white version)
Rd3: 0-2 vs. DnT (mono-white version) --- nut draws with t1 Vials both games, infinite SFM + Flickerwisp, etc.
Rd4: 2-0 vs. Burn
Rd5: 2-0 vs. Goblins
Rd6: 0-2 vs. DnT (mono-white) --- nut draws again; can't beat a god hand on their part. Wish I had brought Sulfur Elemental this tournament.
Rd7: 2-1 vs. GB Elves
Rd8: 2-1 vs. UG Infect
Rd9: 2-0 vs. Eldrazi (yes, I got *extremely* lucky)

Day 2
Day 2
Rd10: 2-0 vs. Esper Blade
Rd11: 2-1 vs. RG Lands (also lucky; landed 2 TNN early enough to race him, actually named Pithing Needle on Wasteland so he couldn't Tabernacle me out of the game)
Rd12: 0-2 vs. GB Elves (the grindier version that eschews Natural Order for more midrange cards like Packmaster etc.)
Rd13: 2-0 vs. BGRw Loam (got lucky; had removal for his Dark Confidants and counters for his Lilianas; Mongoose was amazing here)
Rd14: 2-0 vs. BGw Elves (white splash for Pridemage and Teeg in board; this version is easier to beat because as long as you can counter Natural Order it's a lot easier to manage to race them. He did get me down to 1 life in game 2, but I had double bolt and a flipped Delver to take him from 9 to 0)
Rd15: 2-0 vs. Mono-Black Reanimator (Stifle was key here, as was Spell Snare)

End result was 11-4. But taking those losses earlier on Day 1 made it so I was much less likely to place.

I think I would probably make a few minor tweaks to this build of the deck, but overall it ran great. Definitely going to make a few adjustments to specifically address Death and Taxes, and not just because of confirmation bias of me getting paired against it 4 times. The deck was fucking everywhere, and as a legitimately competitive "budget" option and quite a few key-reprints in EMA bringing the price of some its staples down, it's only going to become more popular. It's definitely beatable with some luck, but there needs to be *at least* 1 Sulfur Elemental or similar card in the board in addition to other cards.

I am interested in giving the GP Prague version with Hooting Mandrills a try, and I also want to give the 4c Delver deck that Daniel Signorini was playing a go (once the deck list finally gets published. He missed the cut to top 8 by something like 0.5% or some bullshit like that, was bummed to see him not make the cut).

[sdematt]

I loved running Mandrills back about a year ago, just haven't touched this deck since. But, if I get a chance to play my Alpha Winter Orbs, I'm fucking interested.

Can you post the 4C list when it's up?

[wcm8]

Dan Signorini's 4c Delver list
(9th place GP Columbus, missing cut to top 8 by 0.5% tie-breakers)

3 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
2 tropical island
2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
4 wasteland
4 Delver of secrets
4 Deathrite shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gurmag Angler
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
4 daze
3 stifle
2 spell pierce
4 lightning bolt
3 abrupt decay

SB:
1 forked bolt
1 flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 ancient grudge
1 diabolic edict
2 golgari charm
2 painful truths
2 surgical extraction
1 vendilion clique
1 true-name nemesis
1 murderous cut

[blablub]

Dan Signorini's 4c Delver list
(9th place GP Columbus, missing cut to top 8 by 0.5% tie-breakers)

3 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
2 tropical island
2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
4 wasteland
4 Delver of secrets
4 Deathrite shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gurmag Angler
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
4 daze
3 stifle
2 spell pierce
4 lightning bolt
3 abrupt decay

SB:
1 forked bolt
1 flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 ancient grudge
1 diabolic edict
2 golgari charm
2 painful truths
2 surgical extraction
1 vendilion clique
1 true-name nemesis
1 murderous cut

Huge Fan of it, i will try it :) but i think this post is better suited for the 4 Color Delver Thread :)

[wcm8]

Huge Fan of it, i will try it :) but i think this post is better suited for the 4 Color Delver Thread :)

Yep, I was just posting it since I mentioned it and sdmatt requested it.

This list obviously hybridizes BUG and RUG into one amazing pile of 75 -- the best of both worlds at the cost of occasionally getting mana-screwed.

Anyways, I see that there was a RUG Delver pilot in the top 32. Perhaps he wil offer a report of his experiences?

Unrelated: I wonder if there will be more grumbling and calls for the banning of SDT, what with half the top 8 consisting of Miracles. But really aside from its power-level, the more annoying aspect is the time consideration. The card definitely drags the tournament process to a halt; basically every single round went to time and 95% of the time, at least one of the players in rounds was playing Top.

I'm not sure if the hypothetical banning would be a gain or a loss for RUG. The matchup is very winnable, though there are those games that are basically impossible to win.

[MoonDark]

Huge Fan of it, i will try it :) but i think this post is better suited for the 4 Color Delver Thread :)

Wow, such an amazing decklist. Anyone knows about the SB strategy? Blood Moons?

Is this decklist being discussed somewhere else?

[Contract Killer]

While one of our Canadian threshold brethren was out making top 8 in Prague I was doing my best in Columbus. Day 1 I finished 8/1 dropping round 8 to lands in 3.
Day 2 I dropped round 11 to dark bant, round 13 to eldrazi and finally round 15 the one that would let me crack top 64 to dredge of all things. I'll write up a proper report when I get back in Seattle. Most importantly I had fun saw old friends and made a lot of new ones.

[Contract Killer]

Yep, I was just posting it since I mentioned it and sdmatt requested it.

This list obviously hybridizes BUG and RUG into one amazing pile of 75 -- the best of both worlds at the cost of occasionally getting mana-screwed.

Anyways, I see that there was a RUG Delver pilot in the top 32. Perhaps he wil offer a report of his experiences?

Unrelated: I wonder if there will be more grumbling and calls for the banning of SDT, what with half the top 8 consisting of Miracles. But really aside from its power-level, the more annoying aspect is the time consideration. The card definitely drags the tournament process to a halt; basically every single round went to time and 95% of the time, at least one of the players in rounds was playing Top.

I'm not sure if the hypothetical banning would be a gain or a loss for RUG. The matchup is very winnable, though there are those games that are basically impossible to win.

All in all I think it would be a loss for rug. Miracles is by no means favorable but very close 50/50 assuming both are competent players. With that being said it's very easy to find incompetent miracle players that still don't know their deck. The problem with it getting banned is it opens the flood gates of elves and jund neither of which are 50/50 by any means. I hate that I'm advocating for a deck that's pushing others out of the format, but it would definitely be a loss for rug in the long run.

[Contract Killer]

Dan Signorini's 4c Delver list
(9th place GP Columbus, missing cut to top 8 by 0.5% tie-breakers)

3 misty rainforest
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
2 tropical island
2 volcanic island
2 underground sea
4 wasteland
4 Delver of secrets
4 Deathrite shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Gurmag Angler
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 force of will
4 daze
3 stifle
2 spell pierce
4 lightning bolt
3 abrupt decay

SB:
1 forked bolt
1 flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
1 ancient grudge
1 diabolic edict
2 golgari charm
2 painful truths
2 surgical extraction
1 vendilion clique
1 true-name nemesis
1 murderous cut

It looks good until I think of the miracles match up. Honestly nimble mongoose singlehandedly well paired with stifle makes that match up good. There's a reason why I don't like other delver decks because they're so cold to miracles main deck or so it seems.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[wcm8]

A fairly huge advantage of his list is that he doesn't just roll over and die to a resolved Counterbalance or Chalice set to 1. (Yes, yes, I have fought and won through these myself with RUG; it's just a heck of a lot easier with abrupt decay).

I think every flavor of delver has its advantages and disadvantages, the best choice seems to come down to the expected metagame. Unless they someday print something that makes one color-variant far and away superior to all the others, there's legitimate justification in running just about every Delver variant.

[NARO]

In what matchups do you want Winter Orb aside from Miracles?

[sdematt]

In what matchups do you want Winter Orb aside from Miracles?

When you want to show off the pimps.

Heard it is also good against Eldrazi when you're nutting their manabase with Wastelands.

[sdematt]

I'd prefer to see a Terminus ban. Just my two cents.

[Ricardio]

I'd prefer to see a Terminus ban. Just my two cents.

Agreed 100%. I'd vote for you.

[Jonathan Alexander]

I'll write my report some time this week. I go below 1 Winter Orb in almost no matchups, pretty much only against decks without lands and in the Delver mirror. I won every game I cast Orb in Prague, although I didn't draw it quite often.

Miracles is an absurdly good matchup for my list and Canadian wouldn't benefit from a ban. Let them have Terminus, I just don't want to play against Supreme Verdict.

[LewisCBR]

That 4c Delver list looks horrible, IMO. Full set of Wastelands, 4 colors, and 3 Stifles, wtf is going on here... thats the greediest list i've ever seen. There are only really 15 lands and you need all 3 of your blue duals to operate effectively. Screw that, i've hammered so many 4c Delver and 4c Stone Forge decks online who think they can just jam the good stuffs.

Not my kind of list. These are the kind of decks that usually get punished at a Grand Prix, as they can probably run OK in a small tournament, but no way (usually) that mana base holds up for 15 rounds. That guy must have had a hell of a hot streak, or somehow dodged all the Wasteland decks.

[wcm8]

That 4c Delver list looks horrible, IMO. Full set of Wastelands, 4 colors, and 3 Stifles, wtf is going on here... thats the greediest list i've ever seen. There are only really 15 lands and you need all 3 of your blue duals to operate effectively. Screw that, i've hammered so many 4c Delver and 4c Stone Forge decks online who think they can just jam the good stuffs.

Not my kind of list. These are the kind of decks that usually get punished at a Grand Prix, as they can probably run OK in a small tournament, but no way (usually) that mana base holds up for 15 rounds. That guy must have had a hell of a hot streak, or somehow dodged all the Wasteland decks.

Dan Signorini is a fairly well known and respected player. He's credited for developing the original Team America deck, and he's made Top 8 in legacy Grand Prixs several times in the past.

I don't disagree that you have to get somewhat lucky to make top 16, but dismissing it outright is missing the strengths of that list and the skill of the player in question. "Dark Thresh" lists have been running 3/3 Tropical/Sea and fetches for years now, and that was without the help of Deathrite Shaman. He's only jamming Red for main-deck Bolts and SB options. I actually don't think the mana base is all that weak. It's actually quite ingeniously designed, the deck is capable of always leaving up at least 1 mana to interact on its opponent's turn yet still deploy 1 mana threats.

[Deadeye_Mongoose]

Sooooo, how about that RUG list with hooting mandrils that got 7th place at Columbus?

4 Delver of Secrets
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Vendilion Clique
1 True-Name Nemesis

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Snare
1 Spell Pierce
1 Forked Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Dismember

3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Submerge
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Sulfur Elemental
2 Price of Progress

Seems like a wierd choice to me since Nimble mongoose is like half the reason I love this deck. Still, the result is pretty fuckin solid.