Thanks for the tips! I will try that.
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Got ninth in a sixty-six person tournament in Melbourne Australia, with more traditional Canadian (RUG Delver) wrote a report:
https://thesaltminesite.com/2017/03/...ian-threshold/
List felt very smooth and couldn't be too sad about it, happy to hear how I played poorly/sideboarded weirdly.
Really enjoyed reading that report, thanks!
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
So I will be taking the "Dark Thresh" to a few big tournaments in the near future, and was wondering if anyone is still doing any testing with it. I will provide my list and ask everyone that is still on this build to critique it. I am going into an unexpected Meta and would like to fine tune the build. Thanks and have a great day!!
4 delver
4 mongoose
3 deathrite
1 true name
4 BS
4 ponder
4 force
4 daze
2 spell snare
1 spell pierce
1 counterspell
2 abrupt decay
3 fatal push
2 painful truths
4 stifle
4 strand
4delta
1 mire
2 U sea
2 trop
1 bayou
4 wasteland
Nice report!
Have you ever considered Flame Jab in the Barbarian Ring 'slot?' Still combines with Loam to kill a bunch of stuff / burn face:
Pros:
- Flips delver
- Doesn't care about how many cards are in your graveyard (e.g. to kill something on turn 1)
- Turns all your extra lands into Gut Shots
Cons:
- Sorcery-speed damage only
- Can't kill X/2s unless you commit more cards into it
- Doesn't add R to your mana pool
- Not Colorless
You forgot one of the biggest cons. It gets stopped by prelate and mom.
I admittedly didn't think about Prelate and I guess anything that interacts on the stack (CB, Chalice, etc although you probably wouldn't board FJ in against those decks).- Not Colorless
Just different pros and cons depending on the matchup, if DnT is the main concern then I suppose Ring is probably stronger.
I wouldn't cut Goose vs D&T.
I know some people love Goose vs. D&T, but I've found it lacklustre. Since your mana is crippled it's hard to hit Thresh effectively some of the time, and they don't really utilise removal to beat us - they use creatures blocking the road instead, the majority of which trade with Goose and hence demand you to have removal. RiP is typically boarded in from them too, and largely bricking it (sure, Mandrills and Loam get hit by an early RiP, but late-game ones aren't an issue as a single Loam resolution does enough and if Drills are already on the table RiP does nothing) is great.
I guess my question comes to what to to cut in this matchup then; Pierce, and Counterspell are the first to go, and the only ones up for contention are Stifle and the Force on the draw/Daze on the draw. But Daze is incredible as long as they don't have Vial.
I know lots of people have different plans against D&T, let's hear them out? I've been happy with mine so far.
I want to stress that first and foremost, if you've had success with what you've been doing, its possible you should ignore what I'm about to say. Because play style is very important to side boarding plans and overall deck construction. I think Mandrills is not good vs them because it gets killed by swords to plowshares and rest in peace. I would like all my threats to beat either one of those cards. I agree 100% that spell pierce is out (not enough targets) and counterspell (possibly too demanding to leave up 1UU, possible they have vial, and possible they have cavern).
JonathanAlexander favors cutting stifles and leaving in all free countermagic (https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...oarding-guide/), I've seen others cut forces / dazes but leave stifle. Jon would have to comment himself, but I suspect holding up stifle doesn't synergize well with his "play winter orb & shut down aether vial" sideboard plan for D&T.
And I know mongoose seems pathetic at times, but shroud is just such a powerful mechanic. Killing opponents while they look at their StP, Decay, etc. in their hands is so underrated because most of the times you won't really know it, and it can even feel bad from our perspective to beat down with a 1/1. FWIW the taxes players I have talked to have told me mongoose is more annoying for them than goyf.
Can people share their aluren plans? As food for thought, I had some success bringing in
+1 lavamancer
+1 winter orb (1 main)
+1 TNN (1 main)
+2 ancient grudge
+2 pyroblast
-4 goose
-1 dismember
-2 spell snare (only running 2)
I favored siding out geese over delvers because I favored the evasion over shroud. Also, goyf gets absolutely huge in this match up and the upside of laying down a 6/7 goyf was too good for me to side him out. They just have so much value in the deck that a big goyf is one of the best way to end the game fast. I know I know abrupt decay kills delver and goyf...but with those cards, lavamancer, and the winter orbs, they can't kill everything.
I'm still getting a feel for how this match up goes. I've played some weird games where their namesake card resolves but I still win (kind of like weird sneak&show matches where they resolve a sneak attack, but all resources have been depleted in the process, and when they finally find an emrakul you stifle the annihilator trigger and counterswing for lethal). So I'm not sure if there is a viable strategy that entails allowing them to resolve an aluren intentionally and just trying to counter all their creatures...? I doubt it, but I'll kick the tires on pretty much any idea
Can people share their aluren plans? As food for thought, I had some success bringing in
+1 lavamancer
+1 winter orb (1 main)
+1 TNN (1 main)
+2 ancient grudge
+2 pyroblast
-4 goose
-1 dismember
-2 spell snare (only running 2)
I favored siding out geese over delvers because I favored the evasion over shroud. Also, goyf gets absolutely huge in this match up and the upside of laying down a 6/7 goyf was too good for me to side him out. They just have so much value in the deck that a big goyf is one of the best way to end the game fast. I know I know abrupt decay kills delver and goyf...but with those cards, lavamancer, and the winter orbs, they can't kill everything.
I'm still getting a feel for how this match up goes. I've played some weird games where their namesake card resolves but I still win (kind of like weird sneak&show matches where they resolve a sneak attack, but all resources have been depleted in the process, and when they finally find an emrakul you stifle the annihilator trigger and counterswing for lethal). So I'm not sure if there is a viable strategy that entails allowing them to resolve an aluren intentionally and just trying to counter all their creatures...? I doubt it, but I'll kick the tires on pretty much any idea
Hi, I'm a long-time Aluren player and I will try to make some points.
1) It absolutely depends on what kind of Aluren the opponent is playing, because if he/she is playing Recruiter version the Spell Snares are great. They can counter Cavern Harpy when it is on the stack, before it bounces one of the main bouncers during combo (Arctic Merfolk, Quickling or Dream Stalker). It means you have onemana-stopcombo-card. If they are playing BUG Version without Recruiter it is less effective, but still - it can hit Cavern Harpy, Baleful Strix or Glint Nest-Crane. Do not underestimate this card as well as Pyroblasts. I would not side in Ancient Grudge, because it cannot stop the Recruiter Combo - it can help with the BUG version, ok, but I would consider them. Lavamancer and Winter Orb are just fine, but be careful that you need your mana active when fighting against Aluren, your opponent does not ;-)
2) As your creature plan goes, Aluren usually plays (as you mentioned) Abrupt Decays and Baleful Strix, so when I am playing it I don't care about Tarmogoyf. They also have many chump-blockers. I think you should board in all TNN, Aluren is not a fast combo and it doesn't play Wasteland. But I think you are on this plan. The Mongooses are fine, because you reduce their answers basically to Baleful Strix. But you can go either way.
3) First thing how to deal with Aluren is to know how break the combo in the middle (there are not many opportunities). And you do not want a resolved Aluren, if Aluren is on the table your chances to win are pretty much reduced, because the skilled opponent prepare the win-turn and if you tap wrong, you die on spot.
I do not want to be "over-smart", so take my notes as inspiration to thinking more than anything else :-)
I should have specified I was facing the BUG version. The biggest problem is I have more cards I would like to bring in than board out. As you pointed out you can make many chump blockers and I find goyf, delver, and TNN to be better at swinging through them than mongoose.
Its not so much that spell snare is bad, but pyroblast counters everything snare does (glint nest, harpy, strix) and more (leovold, shardless agent, maybe clique), but can also destroy the cards if they are in play. I feel like I need the spell pierces for the Alurens but they are definitely lacking targets otherwise..
Grudge is absolutely essential vs strixes (baleful AND parasitic) + shardless because I will just run out of cards fast if I don't have efficient ways to deal with their value creatures. A nice 2 for 1 answer to combat their 2 for 1.
I understand how to "interrupt" the combo but as you said its almost impossible to do this effectively with an aluren in play.
Thank you for your thoughts, can you explain how most Aluren player would sideboard against stifle delver variants?
Yes, against BUG version you have better options I must say, even Ancient Grudge does things - good things. But do not forget that single Grudge will never break the combo with Cavern Harpy and Parasitic Strix, if your opponent has it, you cannot stop it by killing either of creatures with single spell. That is what I meant by my point.
If I was playing against Stifle-Delver with Recruiter version, I would side in Carpet of Flowers which is essential strategy against you for obvious reasons. Then I would use discard spells because I want you to get rid of specific spells. And last, I must have answer to your fast Delver so Decay must be in (2-3 is enough). With BUG version I need Flusterstorms (or other cheap counterspells) and Carpet as well. The strategy is still the same, be fast (Carpet), have answer to a fast thread (mainly Delver, others are slow) and be prepared for a counter/burn war during your "big turn" using discard or counterspells.
I must say that Stifle version is one of the best Delver variants against Aluren - it is fast, it attacks your mana and it has multiple ways to disrupt my combo (including Stifle).
My strategy does not involve trying to stop the combo turn, as I will not have enough cards or mana to do such a thing. So I understand grudge doesn't do that. Its purpose is clearing the way so I can kill you before you resolve an Aluren, and cannot continually bounce shardless / strix for value with harpy.
Sounds like carpet of flowers is a big part of your plan. I don't have a clean way to answer that card, so that is an interesting thought going forward.
Hey guys, I just finished up a 5-0 with Canadian Thresh online and thought I would write up a brief tournament report. This is my first report so I am open to feedback.
Starting with some background, I have been playing magic since 2004 and have always enjoyed agressive tempo decks, but didn't really get into legacy until last April. I started off playing Burn, before moving into UR Delver, and finally Grixis delver because it was the "best" delver deck. However, I have been unhappy playing it for the last year as Deathrite Shaman just really does not fit my play style. The deck never felt like tempo to me with the therapies and shaman, and although I have been enjoying LewisCBR's stifle list, I still felt like it was lacking something...
I have always liked big, dumb, green creatures, burning people out, destroying lands, and every aspect of the color blue. So I figured I would give Canadian a chance. My first league with the deck I was 3-1, before clicking through my attack step in my final match and punting the game away. I was a little tilted, but I figured 3-2 was still fine for a deck I had never played before, and so with a little salt, I decided to boot up my second ever league with Canadian Thresh.
I don't own Goyfs online, so I went with the following list:
18 Lands:
1 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
12 Creatures:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Hooting Mandrils
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Grim Lavamancer
30 Other:
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Chain Lightning
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember
Sideboard:
2 Submerge
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
2 Winter Orb
2 Rough//Tumble
1 Fluster Storm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Price of Progress
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
A few thoughts on the decklist:
1) The Hooting Mandrils were exceptional all day, felt like they won me more games than any other card in the deck.
2) I was very unhappy with Grim Lavamancer, it felt like it was too slow and was doing the opposite of what the rest of the deck wanted to do.
3) I didn't love True-Name either, I just felt like I didn't want to be tapping out with this deck ever after turn 2, let alone even have three lands on the field at the same time. In the future I would like to play 2 goyfs over the True-Name and Lavamancer, maybe delegating both of them to the sideboard.
4) I see why people play multiple Dismembers, I haven't been on the other end of too many Gurmag Anglers but that card is hard to deal with.
5) The price in the sideboard was too cute. It is one of my favorite magic cards but I think I will be cutting it for an extra dismember moving forward.
Finally to the actual games, I will keep it brief because I feel like I have already written a ton and I am doing this mostly from memory.
Match 1: W(2-0) vs burraun on Grixis Delver
This is actually the opponent I clicked through my attack step the match before and lost, so I was happy I got to start off my league playing him.
My opponent seemed a little new to the deck, they kept therapying away my counterspells and playing into stifle/daze/spell pierce even with perfect info from probes.
Both games just ended with me stopping them from doing anything and beating down with Mandrils or Delvers.
Match 2: W (2-0) vs. m0ller on 4c Control
m0ller is a great player and a super nice guy. We both grind legacy leagues quite a bit so we chat quite a bit during the game.
Normally he is on miracles, and game 1 I don't think he shows me anything that hints otherwise as I completely stifle him out of the game and win with 5 attacks from a Hooting Mandrils.
So you can imagine my surprise when game 2 he leads off with turn 1 Underground Sea, Deathrite Shaman!
Thankfully I left in 1 bolt for the miracles matchup, and despite drawing both my Winter Orb and Null Rod, I am able to just keep him off 4c controls' clunky mana with wastelands and stifles and beat down with a Hooting Mandrils.
Match 3: W (2-1) vs JPA93 on Sneak & Show
Game 1 not knowing what my opponent is on I keep a slow hand with a brainstorm, a bolt, a mandrils, and 4 lands.
I end up drawing a daze but this is not enough to stop my opponent from powering through a Show and Telled Emrakul for the win.
Game 2 my hand is not great, but I remember it had a few cantrips and a delver. I figure my opponent will play around daze and spell pierce long enough for me to cantrip into pyroblast/flusterstorm/force and beat down with the delver.
My opponent ends up resolving a show and tell for Emrakul but they are at 5 so I attack with a Delver and 1/1 goose. When he blocks the delver I bolt his face to reach threshold and the goose hits for the rest of the damage.
Game 3: My hand was phenomenal with tons of counter magic, a fast clock, and a pithing needle for Sneak Attack.
This is my favorite matchup as Delver, and I usually find it very difficult to lose games two and three once you know what your opponent is on, I just feel like we attack them from every axis they don't want to be attacked on.
Match 4:W (2-0) vs FTI3 on BUG Delver
I'm pretty sure my opponent was on a delver variant of some sort. I don't remember much about these games except for the fact that I wastelanded him off a color both games and killed his deathrites while my creatures made quick work of his life total.
Match 5: W (2-1) vs Jidden on ANT
Game 1 I lose the die roll and my opponent t1 therapies away my force of will, I leave mana untapped to bluff a spell pierce off the top but my opponent disregards this and kills me on their second turn.
Game 2 I have a pretty bad hand, but luckily my opponent keeps a hand with discard and fast mana but doesn't draw into any business at all and I am able to beat down with a mandrils for lethal.
Game 3: This was definitely the most intense game of the night for me. My hand is great but lacks a fast clock. I have a fetch land, a daze, a stifle, a true name, a force of will, a surgical, and a spell snare. I decided to keep and hope to draw into either a cantrip or a delver, and am rewarded when my opponent turn 1 duresses away the snare and i draw a delver off the top which I then deploy.
Turn 2 my opponent cantrips I believe, I then flip the delver and start getting in for some damage.
I think on their turn 4 my opponent tries to Infernal Tutor (non hellbent) so I force it with 1 mana up. My opponent then flusterstorms the force, I stifle the storm trigger, daze the lone remaining copy, and then surgically extract the infernal tutor. They were working with perfect info from a probe I believe, but maybe thought I wouldn't want to waste my entire hand on a non-hellbent infernal tutor. It was the right call as they were holding a a ritual, a therapy, and a tendrils.
My opponent is not able to rebuild before the delver and a mongoose that decided to join the party beat him down.
Overall I am very happy with the deck, I am going to make a few changes but I think I may have found my new deck in legacy. Thanks for reading! Feel free to ask any questions on sideboarding, card choices, etc.
Why didn't you just daze the Tutor rather than daze/stifling the Flusterstorm? Same end result but you get to keep your Stifle, right?
Hmmm... You are right. Unless I am just misremembering the sequencing there that was a mistake on my part. Thank you for pointing that out.
Hello,
yesterday I was playing Canadian Threshold in my LGS, the only Delver I am willing to play :-) here is my list, inspired by Sean Brown (https://thesaltminesite.com/2017/03/...dian-threshold)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Life from the Loam
1 Forked Bolt
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Counterspell
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Dismember
4 Scalding Tarn
SB: 2 True-Name Nemesis
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Winter Orb
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 1 Submerge
SB: 1 Barbarian Ring
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
I went 3:1 with following games:
1) Miracles (2:1)
2) UR Delver (2:1)
3) Death and Taxis (0:2)
4) Miracles (2:0)
The deck was perfect. Hooting Mandrills and Nimble Mongoose were never in a collision. I always chose my path to win, pick one of the creatures and tried to finish the game. Each of them has its special value and with the Life from the Loam it was not so hard to fill the GY. By the way, Loam and Barbarian ring was cool :-) unfortunately I was expecting Reanimator, that are strongly present in our LGS, but never met one. The only change I am doing is replacing Grafdigger's Cage by Rough // Thumble to improve my DnT matchup. This is my key goal in few next days, to improve this very bad matchup.
I felt very comfortable when playing against Miracles (Winter Orb, Sulfuric Vortex, True-Name Nemesis, Pyroblast) which makes me want to play this deck even more. I am not sure if I did it right, but I sided out all my Delvers and Mandrills to make all their Swords to Plowshares useless. Maybe it was wrong, but I felt it was ok.
Wish you all nice day :-)
Glad the deck felt as smooth as butter as it has been for me, and glad my list served you well :) I wouldn't recommend Rough // Tumble to deal with the D&T problem. If anything an extra spot removal spell would be better - something along the lines of Forked Bolt/Electrickery/Sudden Shock/Fire//Ice or even an extra Ring.
Typically vs. Miracles indeed you should side out as many of your Plowable threats. I typically end up with a few Delvers left in, which either end up as Force food or can occasionally steal some games when you fully mana screw the opponent.
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