[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[Bed Decks Palyer]

So I was messing around with RUG yesterday and found a really interesting main deck combination.
Core 54 with 2 gitaxian probe, 2 forked bolt, spell snare, counterspell
sideboard 3 pyroblast, 2 submerge, 2 grafdigger's cage, 2 pithing needle, rough, flusterstorm, krosan grip, vendilion clique, artifact mutation, sulfur elemental
I had one game against shardless bug where I had turn one probe and he had 1 misty, 1 underground, deathrite stuff. Played needle on misty pass proceeded to waste underground and just got an easy win. Playing against miracles is also really fun when you get two needles. First was turn 1 on flooded strand and then I had another one turn 3 or something on arid mesa hahaha. I now see the power in needle it's so flexible and is like never dead while also sometimes being back breaking.

I thought about Counterspell as a lategame bomb agaisnt their lategame bombs, but I dislike how it's completely dead in the opening turns, except as a FoW fodder.
I don't remeber the last time I used Needle on fetch, but I may consider this tactic again. Against Miracles I mostly pith Top, but I don't use GP. With Probe I might be more precise with naming.

[Contract Killer]

I thought about Counterspell as a lategame bomb agaisnt their lategame bombs, but I dislike how it's completely dead in the opening turns, except as a FoW fodder.
I don't remeber the last time I used Needle on fetch, but I may consider this tactic again. Against Miracles I mostly pith Top, but I don't use GP. With Probe I might be more precise with naming.

I normal would hit top too, but probe showed island + flooded strand and other stuff (no top). I just went after flooded strand essentially acting like a stifle and found another one in a ponder or brainstorm. At that point he was so far behind on land and where miracles should be I just chose to keep denying mana and name another of the possible 3 fetches he could be running. Counterspell is just something I'm toying with as a one of I've used it before it's never been great, but never horrible. Just gives me flexibility seeing as I can only run two counters if I have 2x probe, 2x forked bolt.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I normal would hit top too, but probe showed island + flooded strand and other stuff (no top). I just went after flooded strand essentially acting like a stifle and found another one in a ponder or brainstorm. At that point he was so far behind on land and where miracles should be I just chose to keep denying mana and name another of the possible 3 fetches he could be running. Counterspell is just something I'm toying with as a one of I've used it before it's never been great, but never horrible. Just gives me flexibility seeing as I can only run two counters if I have 2x probe, 2x forked bolt.

Yes, it was well played, I meant: as I play non-GP builds, I'd go either for a blind Needle naming Top (becasue they play four of it and it's very important card for them), or I'd wait until they play something I may name and then only respond with Needle. (Although this leaves them with at least one activation of the named card, which might be very bad.)

[wcm8]

I think RUG can consider cutting Submerge (or perhaps doing a 2/2 or 3/1 split) with Spite of Mogis. It's capable of killing creatures outside of Bolt range while also having the upside of scrying 1. Granted, it's *not* free, *isn't* an Instant, and it *doesn't* have the potential of 'time walking' the opponent, but it does have the potential to kill Goyfs, Tombstalkers, and other fatties. And a Goyf killed with it *stays* dead.

Against decks that would run dedicated graveyard hate like Rest in Peace, you likely wouldn't be bringing in Submerge anyways. Even so, you could consider bringing it in against UWR Tempo since they typically only run 2 Rest in Peace.

I don't think it's really competing with maindeck Forked Bolt slots, since you want removal like that to kill turn 1 Delvers and DRS. However, you could consider it as a maindeck 1-of (as an alternative to Dismember).

On another topic, I was wondering if anyone has tested running maindeck Pyroblast/REB? I think 1 or 2 of these are a worthwhile consideration given how prevalent Blue is in Legacy.

[sawatarix]

If we look at the tier1 one decks,there is actually just 1 deck wich is not blue: elves.

So what does it mean to us?if the meta shifts into blue pyroblast gets better ,that's obvious.
The question is which of the counterspells is the best one: spell pierce,spell snare or pxroblast (because you can't cut fow or daze for blast,never)

Pierce and snare have still been really good until now to be honest,i really would'nt cut them for blasts.
Getting a ounter for tnn seems good but all the other blue spells can also be snared (dnapcaster,cb) or pierced (almost all blue spells!)
Having less answers to stoneforge mystic and liliana seems really poor


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

[trollking21]

If we look at the tier1 one decks,there is actually just 1 deck wich is not blue: elves.

So what does it mean to us?if the meta shifts into blue pyroblast gets better ,that's obvious.
The question is which of the counterspells is the best one: spell pierce,spell snare or pxroblast (because you can't cut fow or daze for blast,never)

Pierce and snare have still been really good until now to be honest,i really would'nt cut them for blasts.
Getting a ounter for tnn seems good but all the other blue spells can also be snared (dnapcaster,cb) or pierced (almost all blue spells!)
Having less answers to stoneforge mystic and liliana seems really poor


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

Jund is tier 1 and blast does nothing there.

[poxy14]

stifle-less built took over SCG Detroit, congrats Morgan Mclaughlin!
(tnn's, chain lightnings, probes)

Ben Weinburg also top 8'ed with the stocklist

GO RUG!

[Contract Killer]

stifle-less built took over SCG Detroit, congrats Morgan Mclaughlin!
(tnn's, chain lightnings, probes)

Ben Weinburg also top 8'ed with the stocklist

GO RUG!

I can't help, but think that stifleless delver has an extremely worse miracles match up. I mean sure you get better cards for the times when stifle doesn't do "much", but it has so many back breaking applications (fetches, germ tokens, RIP trigger, miracles, etc). Then again he did take first so I guess it worked for him.

[poxy14]

I can't help, but think that stifleless delver has an extremely worse miracles match up. I mean sure you get better cards for the times when stifle doesn't do "much", but it has so many back breaking applications (fetches, germ tokens, RIP trigger, miracles, etc). Then again he did take first so I guess it worked for him.

definitely worked for him, i was watching bits of the finals (rug vs shardless) coz i was in the office : ), and pondered that if he was holding a stifle any moment during the second game, he could just break liliana.. well, some lists works on a lucky day, but he did very well maneuvering this list..
I, still wouldnt sleeve up this deck without any .........STIFLES. that card is just too good.

[Contract Killer]

definitely worked for him, i was watching bits of the finals (rug vs shardless) coz i was in the office : ), and pondered that if he was holding a stifle any moment during the second game, he could just break liliana.. well, some lists works on a lucky day, but he did very well maneuvering this list..
I, still wouldnt sleeve up this deck without any .........STIFLES. that card is just too good.

Yeah I just can't see running RUG without stifle. There's some virtual advantage if you run 4 tarn, 4 misty and just bluff it having your opponent play around it causing for some upside. On the other hand just having it allows for so much versatility across the board.
On another note I just realized Ben's list did not have any SUBMERGES and only ONE PYROBLAST??? Did he just plan on dodging BUG delver, Maverick and any TNN's? That just seems like such an all in sideboard banking on everything going well with probe/stifle/snare combinations.

[Contract Killer]

Just watched game 2 of Ben's first top8 game against Maverick where he gets his board wiped by zealous persecution So much think tank going on there "what could he have" "you can't reason with a man running into the middle of the street ripping his shirt off like King Kong!" hahaha Both of those games against Thomas were just ripped from Ben's hand. It reminds me of playing against miracles and watching the stabilize at 3 or less and you're just like really

[Tormod]

Heavy misplay by Gerhart cost him game 3.

At 5 life, After a suspended Ancestral vision resolves, gerhart with 3 mana abrupts Morgans Tarmogoyf, and then walks his own Deathrite Shaman into Daze. Leaving both players with an empty board. If he played Drs, then abrupt. It would been a much different game.

[Cambriel]

Any advice on improving our Lands matchup? It seems to have become a more and more prevalent deck over the last couple of months, and I haven't had a lot of success. It's such an attrition based matchup, and game 1 especially leaves us with a pile of dead cards.

[cheerios]

What's your opinion on Dack (new walker from Conspiracy)? Steal Batterskull and the ultimate are pretty good abilities for a 3 mana walker. Is it playable?

Cheers

[thecrav]

What's your opinion on Dack (new walker from Conspiracy)? Steal Batterskull and the ultimate are pretty good abilities for a 3 mana walker. Is it playable?

Cheers

Steal Batterskull is meh. You don't get the token, so unless you've got 5 lands in play, all you're doing is removing that particular thread.

Stealing Jitte or SoFI on the other hand is hilariously good.

Dack's ultimate + maindeck pyroblast? PLEASE BE A THING. PLEASE.

[cheerios]

Steal Batterskull is meh. You don't get the token, so unless you've got 5 lands in play, all you're doing is removing that particular thread.

Stealing Jitte or SoFI on the other hand is hilariously good.

Dack's ultimate + maindeck pyroblast? PLEASE BE A THING. PLEASE.

Just curious, what happens to the token if you steal the Batterskull?

I Lol'ed at that Dack-Pyroblast interaction. The walker will probably be the new rage and could probably cost an arm and a leg.

If Rug's gonna play it, which cards are gonna be swapped for Dack? MD is tight as it is and I'm seeing Dack as a super enhanced version of Sylvan Library. I'm thinking of swapping the grudges for this guy but that won't solve Chalices.

Cheers for some legacy love

[kavaki]

Just curious, what happens to the token if you steal the Batterskull?

The opponent keeps the token, still equipped with the skull. While you still control said 'skull, it still remains equipped.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Any advice on improving our Lands matchup? It seems to have become a more and more prevalent deck over the last couple of months, and I haven't had a lot of success. It's such an attrition based matchup, and game 1 especially leaves us with a pile of dead cards.

You need to be fast, deal the dmg soon enough before they stabilize. Pith the Maze sothat your targetable dudes may go through. Crypt is good against Loam, so is Extraction. Keep countering anything hurtful, esp. Loam, it may buy you enough turns, but also counter Crop Rot. Keep Waste for Glacial Chasm.
It's horrible matchup, no surprise, Lands are build to win it. But it's doable, I won some matches. You're playing a deck with best cantrip power, so you should be able to find what you need soon enough.

[Contract Killer]

Any advice on improving our Lands matchup? It seems to have become a more and more prevalent deck over the last couple of months, and I haven't had a lot of success. It's such an attrition based matchup, and game 1 especially leaves us with a pile of dead cards.

You need to be fast, deal the dmg soon enough before they stabilize. Pith the Maze sothat your targetable dudes may go through. Crypt is good against Loam, so is Extraction. Keep countering anything hurtful, esp. Loam, it may buy you enough turns, but also counter Crop Rot. Keep Waste for Glacial Chasm.
It's horrible matchup, no surprise, Lands are build to win it. But it's doable, I won some matches. You're playing a deck with best cantrip power, so you should be able to find what you need soon enough.

For Lands my best experience has been with dropping delver and geese as fast as possible while daze/forcing their early spells like exploration and loam. Your best bet is to try and force them to go on the defensive so they don't waste you out of the game early on. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm pretty sure if you're running Price in the sideboard this match up becomes a cakewalk seeing as it's like a 10dmg burn spell here.

What's your opinion on Dack (new walker from Conspiracy)? Steal Batterskull and the ultimate are pretty good abilities for a 3 mana walker. Is it playable?

Cheers

I definitely think this could be a thing for us. The +1 seems like a win more type of a thing since tapping 3 for a loot effect is really bad and it's only at 4 loyalty so it dies to most decks with threats out. Since I have nothing better to do artifacts that are silly to steal:
SoXY
Jitte
Aether vial essentially a stone rain type effect for us
Bye bye pesky ensnaring bridge :D
Baleful Strix
Batterskull
Thopter Foundry assuming they don't have the combo going it forces them to sac it so that's worth while

We actually don't even care if SoXY or jitte are equipped because if we control it they can swing and we get to decide how to use the triggers (not 100% sure on this anyone want to chime in?). At least from what I can tell SoFI will work in our favor, SoFF still hurts us a bit with discard, but we get to untap our lands so that's something, SoWP is a wash. The batterskull situation isn't good, but what's been your guy's experience with that to begin with? For me my opponent almost always seems to get jitte, SoFI or other stuff because if we have bolt or stifle batterskull is very dead regardless of the deck they're playing. If they do get it at the very lest Dack is a two turn answer for it because we steal it then bounce it to their hand.
His ultimate seems really funny if you're running fork bolt in the main not that it's likely, but still it's silly.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Dack is awful. I'd play Jace Beleren before him.

@ Lands: Yes, PoP is a card that may win you this matchup, just be careful of Crop:Clasm in response to Price. Either keep some hard counter (they may play around Daze with no troubles) or even better: active Waste.