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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2241

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Interesting that you say you like Goyf, first time I've heard that in a while. I'm gonna try a Delver/Mandrills/True-Name split when I find the time, that looks promising in the current metagame as you get fast beats, evasion and hard to kill creatures all at the same time.

    In other news, my YouTube playlist playing the Deathrite version is now complete: Click.
    im interested in seeing a list with that split. no goose?

  2. #2242
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I played a stock list with the following changes:

    -4 Goose +2 Mandrills +1 TNN +1 Clique

    Flex slots: 2 Dismember, 1 forked bolt, 1 chain lightning, 2 spell pierce

    Sideboard:
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Harsh Mentor
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Standstill
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Pithing Needle

    I agree that Goose is in a tough spot right now but I didn't play against any DRS decks to really see if my build was good. I tilted toward more removal, there's a decent amount of combo locally but force+daze+stifle+pierce is still a lot in game 1.

    1-2 Show & Tell (I couldn't flip a delver to go with my Mandrills when he was at 3 life with an Emrakul. I stifled the annihilator trigger to go to 1 and get him on crackback, but he had dispel.)
    2-1 D&T (game 1 was a predictable disaster, game 2 I got jitte on clique when he had RIP out vs. my goyf, game 3 i ripped sulfur elemental off the top when i was about to die to several flickerwisps)
    2-0 BR reanimator (game 1 I had force game 2 he mulled to 4 and I had wasteland + stifle)
    2-1 Big Red (game 1 I had force, game 2 he got chalice into chandra, game 3 he drew a lot of lock pieces and no action and Goyf went the distance)

    Didn't get a chance to stick a Mentor, I brought it in for D&T but he never surfaced. Probably could be Lavamancer and just as good. But again, didn't play a lot of fair decks so not sure what to expect yet. I really have trouble deciding on Clique or TNN, I feel like I always want to play at instant speed with this deck but TNN just ends the game if you can stick one.

  3. #2243
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by gotchadanno View Post
    im interested in seeing a list with that split. no goose?
    Still trying to figure it out, not sure where to take that list. Ironically, I did record a league with Mongoose/Mandrills today:

    //Creature
    4 Hooting Mandrills
    4 Nimble Mongoose

    //Instant
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle

    //Land
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    //Sorcery
    2 Chain Lightning
    2 Life from the Loam
    4 Ponder

    //Sideboard
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Null Rod
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
    SB: 2 Invasive Surgery
    SB: 1 Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Forest
    SB: 1 Barbarian Ring
    SB: 2 Gemstone Caverns
    SB: 1 Pyroclasm


    While recording, an interesting scenario came up that I unfortunately failed to identify as interesting, so I'm gonna share it here:



    What's the play?
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  4. #2244
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    That's a toughy, knowing the decklist. If he was Goyf, it's counter it, drop a goyf. At 4/4 the mandrils are too small to survive a double block, meaning that even if he sac'd his goose (why would he?) the best you could do is trade boardstates.

    Him being on 1-land seems good though. You're still stuck until you get another dude but at least he's potentially locked and is lacking whatever card was in his hand. Also, given his board state, he's casting a CDA spell; may let him have it and hope it locks him. (He loses Smallpox, dude, land, card, you lose card, dude land, and the card you lose is the one you would use anyway.)

    The only thing about letting it resolve is that you're stuck taking another hit of 4 life, putting you at 5; meaning if you don't find a second dude before he does, you lose for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  5. #2245

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    Still trying to figure it out, not sure where to take that list. Ironically, I did record a league with Mongoose/Mandrills today:

    //Creature
    4 Hooting Mandrills
    4 Nimble Mongoose

    //Instant
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle

    //Land
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland
    1 Barbarian Ring
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    //Sorcery
    2 Chain Lightning
    2 Life from the Loam
    4 Ponder

    //Sideboard
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Null Rod
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Destructive Revelry
    SB: 2 Invasive Surgery
    SB: 1 Spell Pierce
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 1 Forest
    SB: 1 Barbarian Ring
    SB: 2 Gemstone Caverns
    SB: 1 Pyroclasm


    While recording, an interesting scenario came up that I unfortunately failed to identify as interesting, so I'm gonna share it here:



    What's the play?
    When I first saw this, I would snap play spell snare, but I didn't consider him losing a card in hand and a land.

    After thinking through this more, I would still counter with SpellSnare it as it seems like you want as many creatures as possible. Trading mongoose for Zombie isn't good.

    It would be a more interesting if the pox enabled you to cast the Mandrills....tougher situation.

  6. #2246
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'd bet this involve drawing into Tabernacle. Leaving your opponent with 1 mana and a choice to be made at his next upkeep to deal with your mandrill.

  7. #2247
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Okay, first off, all my matches with Jonadian have been uploaded to YouTube now: #thedailywars #23-27 — Complete Jonadian Threshold League Playlist

    As for the scenario I posted above, I think I'm going to discuss it in full detail alongside some other scenarios on my blog, but for now let me just say that I think it would have been correct to let Smallpox resolve and discard Spell Snare to it, as bad as that seems at first glance. You're trading the Snare for Smallpox anyway and with the stalled board, it's pretty much like you're trading Mongoose for one of their Zombies as well. You would gladly trade one of your Volcanics for one of their lands and at that point I think 5 life is a reasonable price to pay for their last card in hand. In short, I think Smallpox is an unfavourable trade for the Reanimator player in this instance.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  8. #2248

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So with miracles back in the mix, and the format not looking as deathrite saturated as I had previously predicted, I am interested in sleeving up canadian again. Some things that I have experienced in deckbuilding:

    1) I hate playing more than 6 removal spells main, but obviously deathrite NEEDS to die
    2) I am super interested in having access to rough//tumble atm
    3) I like having access to diverse threats, much like grixis delver
    4) I don't think spell snare is all that important right now. It is not good against one of the premier combo decks of the format, is really poor against the premier delver deck and we don't have cb to worry about anymore.

    Tonight I tried this out:

    MD

    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Wasteland
    4 Stifle
    1 Life from the Loam

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 True Name Nemesis

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Counterspell

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Dismember

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain

    SB

    1 Nimble Mongoose
    1 True Name Nemesis
    1 Tarmogoyf
    3 Rough//Tumble
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Ancient Grudge

    The major change here is the creature mix and the presence of 2 preordains in the maindeck.

    I could never really find a mix of creatures/removal/counterspells I loved so I figured I would just try jamming more cantrips. I was impressed overall with the preordains tonight. The increased ability to find the cards you need makes up for having less individual copies of each card, and also lets us free the goose earlier. It also makes your sideboard a decent amount better if you can manage to keep the preordains in. I built the sideboard in 5 minutes but I am certain I want the 3 copies of rough tumble and the spread of creatures in the side. I ended up doing a lot of tweaking post board, and ended up using every sideboarded creature at least once. Also, there's a lot of reanimator in my meta, so 3 surgicals is likely overkill in general.

    Am I crazy? Has anyone tried anything along these lines recently? Let me know what you all think.

  9. #2249

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey all, checking in with another 3-0 weekly with my preordain list. I played this tonight:

    MD

    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Wasteland
    4 Stifle

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 True Name Nemesis

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Counterspell

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Dismember

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain

    SB

    1 Nimble Mongoose
    1 True Name Nemesis
    1 Tarmogoyf
    3 Rough//Tumble
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Ancient Grudge

    Played against grixis delver (therapy), elves and burn, going 6-0 in games. Preordain (and the mixed bag of creatures in the sideboard) continued to overperform in the list. This week the tension between preordain/ponder+brainstorm and fetchlands came up a little more, but not to a point where it really affected my games greatly. This is my second 3-0 in a row with the list, and although both were just weeklies, the decks were all at least tiered decks.

  10. #2250
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raticate_Tail View Post
    Hey all, checking in with another 3-0 weekly with my preordain list.

    ...

    Played against grixis delver (therapy), elves and burn, going 6-0 in games. Preordain (and the mixed bag of creatures in the sideboard) continued to overperform in the list. This week the tension between preordain/ponder+brainstorm and fetchlands came up a little more, but not to a point where it really affected my games greatly. This is my second 3-0 in a row with the list, and although both were just weeklies, the decks were all at least tiered decks.
    Congrats.
    Can I ask for more details about the burn match?

  11. #2251

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    i would be interested in your Boardingplans especially how you switch your creature suit in the different matchups :) the list look really nice !

  12. #2252

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by jattra View Post
    Congrats.
    Can I ask for more details about the burn match?
    G1 I'm on the play. Hand is 3 lands, 2 goyfs, delver and a daze. Very good hand in the mu. Delver go, let swiftspear resolve, jam a goyf, daze eidolon, jam another goyf. Game is over from there.

    Sided like this: -2 dismember, -1 true name, -2 stifle, -2 wasteland, +1 flusterstorm, +1 sylvan library, +2 rough//tumble, +1 destructive revelry, +1 tarmogoyf, +1 nimble mongoose.

    Wasteland and stifle have their merits individually. Sometimes you get to stifle fetchlands or barb ring, wasteland casts goyf, kills barb ring and gives you p.o.p. insurance. I chose to split them. Dismember and true name are just horrible. As far as rough//tumble is concerned, I usually don't like 2 mana removal in the matchup, but I don't think playing literally just the four bolts is good enough. I also saw multiple grim lavamancers game one.

    G2 I remember keeping a 6 of goyf, preordain, volc, waste, rough//tumble and a brainstorm. The plan here is to find a green source and jam a goyf. From there, if our opponent has a creature heavy hand we easily win, and if he has a burn heavy hand we have to draw well. I remember brainstorming to draw a card off of goblin guide, finding a green source in the process. Goyf was played and rough//tumble swept up a swiftspear and a guide. I end up drawing into another goyf, counterspells and cantrips to find more counterspells. I ended up using wasteland to tap for mana twice this game for the record.

    How easy the matchup is depends on how many goyfs you play. I happened to draw the few that I was playing quite frequently.

  13. #2253

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by blablub View Post
    i would be interested in your Boardingplans especially how you switch your creature suit in the different matchups :) the list look really nice !
    In general I like them in the following matchups:

    Nimble Mongoose: Grixis delver, Death and Taxes, UR delver, Infect, Burn, Jeskai delver, Miracles, Stoneblade, Loam, S&S, Reanimator

    Tarmogoyf: Grixis delver, UR delver, Eldrazi, Burn, Stompy, Storm, Elves

    True Name: Death and Taxes, Eldrazi, Stompy, 3/4 color goodstuff, Stoneblade, Loam, Lands

    If there is a matchup you would be interested in sideboarding for specifically let me know. I'm a little too lazy to do a full
    on sideboarding guide right now. The sideboard is in constant flux anyways.

  14. #2254
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raticate_Tail View Post
    How easy the matchup is depends on how many goyfs you play. I happened to draw the few that I was playing quite frequently.
    Nice, thx.
    I switched from goyfs to monkeys and it is quite an issue against burn. I am often forced to bolt/counter their creatures first three turns to survive until a blocker finally comes down.

  15. #2255

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I wanted to get everyone's take on Andrea Mengucci's Channel Fireball video here:
    https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...ian-threshold/

    He plays a pretty "stock list" or something that saw play in 2010-2012...made some playmistakes and interesting lines, but I was impressed with how well nimble mongoose held up.

    Here's the list:
    Lands
    2 x Flooded Strand
    2 x Polluted Delta
    3 x Tropical Island
    3 x Volcanic Island
    4 x Wasteland
    2 x Misty Rainforest
    2 x Scalding Tarn
    Creatures
    4 x Tarmogoyf
    4 x Nimble Mongoose
    4 x Delver of Secrets // Insectile Aberration
    Spells
    4 x Stifle
    4 x Lightning Bolt
    4 x Force of Will
    2 x Forked Bolt
    4 x Daze
    4 x Brainstorm
    4 x Ponder
    2 x Spell Pierce
    2 x Spell Snare

    Sideboard
    2 x Ancient Grudge
    2 x Grafdigger's Cage
    2 x Dismember
    2 x Red Elemental Blast
    2 x Submerge
    1 x Pyroblast
    1 x Null Rod
    1 x Flusterstorm
    2 x Rough // Tumble


    I still think mongoose is not needed in this post-top Miracles meta...but would love to get other's thoughts on this...especially JONATHAN ALEXANDER

  16. #2256
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    At first I thought you still wanted to have Mongoose, then my impression was that it was worse than Mandrills, then Miracles came back and I wanted to go Jonadian again... What's probably correct is to have access to Mongoose, but likely it shouldn't be main. I think we should look at something similar to what I was playing last year, with the 13 creatures total setup. I really liked being able to switch between threats; you almost never want more than 10 in any matchup anyway. If we play something like 4 Delver 4 Mongoose 3 Mandrills 2 True-Name, we can potentially still play Pyroclasm as well. Not sure if that is the correct configuration, but for each creature, there are matchups where it's pretty bad in and always having the best ones was a big draw to that list.

    I think what you first want to figure out is the Grixis Delver matchup; I'm not super sold on boarding out Delver against them, but I haven't really gotten to play the matchup with the Mandrills + Mongoose + Pyroclasm setup; maybe that's worth it.

    I heavily dislike playing against Swords to Plowshares (especially in conjunction with Snapcaster Mage) without Nimble Mongoose in my deck. It may actually be worse than Mandrills vs. D&T, especially if you run Delver anyway.

    I'm also fairly sure you want some number of True-Names somewhere. The card steals an unreasonable number of games vs. midrange decks.

    Mandrills is by far the best creature in combo matchups (it's generally the fastest clock and doesn't get killed which is great, what with Sneak & Show boarding stuff like Grim Lavamancer and Pyroclasm, while Storm also has Pyroclasm and Fatal Push). Mandrills are also great against all the Abrupt Decay decks; making them rely on clunky removal like Liliana, Deluge and Diabolic Edict is great, especially considering they don't run many copies of those generally.

    Delver may very well be the weak link, but it does come with some number of free wins, which is great. It makes matchups like Maverick and D&T much better and Delver + Mandrills is definitely the best combination of creatures vs. combo. I think you need Delver or Winter Orb in your 75 and Delver has more impact because you get to run it maindeck.

    Overall, I like the Jonadian approach, but it's most likely a setup you want to have access to after sideboarding, not something you want as your baseline.

    There's also the option of running Grim Lavamancer, but I think it's too narrow and likely also too cute. I would probably include LoamRing again before running Grim and even that I'm not a huge fan of right now. The main draw of this deck is how efficient and straightforward it is, I don't think you want to mess with that concept.
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  17. #2257
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm posting this in the RUG forum because it is spiritually a RUG deck. If I post it over on the BUG thread they're just going to tell me to cut Stifles and run a pile of bad cards like Hymn to Tourach and Leovold.

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle

    4 Fatal Push
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Dark Confidant

    8 fetches
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland


    I've been trying to find a way to not play Tarmogoyf for some time. Fatal Push is a nice upgrade from Bolt against most creatures, and the minor loss of reach is still present in Deathrite. I have the 4 Geese because they're still the best 1-drop after Delver. Three deathrites because we don't really ever want two. Bob might be too cute, in which case there should just be more spells in that slot. The list does feel a little light on removal; the options in black past Push are lackluster at best.

  18. #2258
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've been playing a bit of Canadian Threshold on MODO of late...

    About 2 weeks before Top was banned, I saw the light and realized that Winter Orb was The Truth against Miracles. A traditional build (4 Delver of Secrets/4 Tarmogoyf/4 Nimble Mongoose/2 Spell Pierce/2 Spell Snare/2 Forked Bolt) with 2 Winter Orb was overwhelmingly favored against CounterTop Miracles.

    Around the same time, I saw the light again and realized that a traditional build with 2 Dismember and 3 Pyroblast in the Sideboard was overwhelming favored against Grixis Delver. People obsess too much about how effective Deathrite Shaman is against Nimble Mongoose. Tempo decks without Nimble Mongoose still want to kill opposing Deathrite Shamans on sight. Opposing Deathrite Shaman are only an issue against Sultai Delver because when we tap out to destroy their turn 1 Deathrite Shaman, they are in a good position to resolve Tarmogoyf on Turn 2 which we don't have removal for, combined with their removal for our Tarmogoyfs. Post-board, once we have 7-8 spot removal spells main deck, we have huge a strategic advantage against Grixis Delver. The only card in their deck that matters is the curmudgeonly Gurmag Angler as a 2-of while we have 4 of the dynamic Nimble Mongoose.

    I was wracking up 4-1's in leagues on the back of wins against Miracles and Grixis when Sensei's Divining Top was, of course, banned. I made some hay in the immediate discord after the banning, but people started playing these decks with a lot of Baleful Strix and Fatal Push. It was then that I started re-evaluating the creature suite. I basically tried all manner of configurations with Delver of Secrets, Nimble Mongoose, Hooting Mandrills and True-Name Nemesis.

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    2 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Hooting Mandrills
    3 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    Regarding the creature suite, the deck basically needs to start with 4 Delver of Secrets and 4 Nimble Mongoose. When Delver is cut, opponents are in a much better position to play around Stifle and Daze. Nimble Mongoose usually dominates the board when opponents are limited to 2-3 mana.

    Hooting Mandrills is great against combo, great against Fatal Push and Lightning Bolt, bad against Miracles, and sometimes isn't good with Nimble Mongoose. I think Hooting Mandrills would best be played in a configuration that has extra ways to dump cards in the graveyard, which would probably mean maindeck Life from the Loam, Thought Scour or Gitaxian Probe. The trouble I have is fitting those extra cards when I really don't want cut any of the 2 Spell Snare, 2 Spell Piere and 2 Forked Bolt package.

    I think some amount of True-Name Nemesis in the maindeck is basically a must. It's definitely an improvement over Tarmogoyf against Baleful Strix, Fatal Push and Miracles. Costing 3 mana is obviously an issue sometimes but the ability to pitch it to Force of Will heavily mitigates this drawback and makes the card not too terrible against combo. Another issue is the tension between True-Name Nemesis and Rough/Tumble against Death and Taxes, but there are alternatives to Rough/Tumble.

    The 4 True-Name Nemesis ultimately proved to be my favorite configuration of the above options. My current build:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Forked Bolt

    2 Spell Snare
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    Sideboard:
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    3 Pyroblast
    4 Submerge
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Vendilion Clique

    In this configuration, the plan against Grixis Delver is -2 Spell Snare, -2 Spell Pierce, +3 Pyroblast, +1 Forked Bolt. The win percentage with this build drops a bit against Grixis Delver compared to configuration with access to Tarmogoyf and Dismember. However, it's still pretty east to burn all their small creatures and trump Gurmag Angler with True-Name Nemesis or Force of Will.

    My plan against Elves and Death and Taxes vis-a-vis Rough/Tumble was to max out on Submerge (also great against the hated Sultai Delver) and hope for the best with what I've got against Death and Taxes, which is normally played pretty infrequently.

    In leagues, I seem to be getting more 3-2'd than the 4-1's I was getting pre-Sensei's Divining Top ban. Also, Death and Taxes performed well in the last Legacy Challange. For these reasons I'm wanting to re-evaluate my sideboard and possibly creature configuration further. I'm definitely interested in Delver/Mongoose/Mandrills build with Loam/Scour/Probe. Also, a 4 Delver/3 Mongoose/3 Goyf/2 TNN seems promising as well.

    In any case, I think with the re-emergence of Miracles in the meta and the on-going dominance of Grixis Delver, Nimble Mongoose and Canadian Threshold are reasonably well positioned.

  19. #2259

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey all, stopping back in with another local weekly summary. My list was the following

    Maindeck

    18 Lands

    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Dismember

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    2 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    1 Counterspell

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain

    4 Stifle

    Sideboard
    1 Nimble Mongoose
    1 Tarmogoyf
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Rough//Tumble
    1 Seal of Fire
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Cursed Totem
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Divert
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Ancient Grudge

    So overall changes were -1 Surgical Extraction, -1 Rough//Tumble, -1 Spell Snare, +1 Seal of Fire, +1 Divert, +1 Cursed Totem. The only matchup where I actively wanted to draw multiple Rough//Tumbles was Elves (granted there's a lot of it at my store) so three felt a little heavy. I added seal in as another removal spell that is also reasonable against stuff like Burn, and is much better than the third Rough//Tumble against Grixis. Due to the difficulty I was having with Elves in testing, and the waning of Reanimator at the store I got greedy and played Cursed Totem in place of Surgical number three. Divert was an attempt to add in another card for D&T and Abrupt Becay based good stuff decks.

    I went 3-1 beating Lands and Elves twice, losing to Bug Delver. I think with this setup Elves is very close to a 50-50 MU. I got very lucky versus Lands and fairly unlucky versus Bug Delver. That deck seems really difficult to beat with only 2 True-Names in the deck. Tarmogoyf just does too much work against us. With the ridiculous 20 land Bug lists it's hard to even keep them off of mana. I don't really know what could possibly be done to make that matchup manageable.

    I've still been liking Mongoose a lot, but I'm interested in trying a build with Cryptic Serpent as the fatty of choice over something like Tarmogoyf or Mandrills (which I think has far too much tension with Mongoose). I wish the card were just a little better (slightly reduced cost and swapped power and toughness) and it would be absolutely perfect in the slot, but regardless I would like to try it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malakai View Post
    I'm posting this in the RUG forum because it is spiritually a RUG deck. If I post it over on the BUG thread they're just going to tell me to cut Stifles and run a pile of bad cards like Hymn to Tourach and Leovold.

    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Stifle

    4 Fatal Push
    3 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Dark Confidant

    8 fetches
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland


    I've been trying to find a way to not play Tarmogoyf for some time. Fatal Push is a nice upgrade from Bolt against most creatures, and the minor loss of reach is still present in Deathrite. I have the 4 Geese because they're still the best 1-drop after Delver. Three deathrites because we don't really ever want two. Bob might be too cute, in which case there should just be more spells in that slot. The list does feel a little light on removal; the options in black past Push are lackluster at best.
    I feel like this deck wants Dismembers, as it can't hope to beat a single Angler. I think that Bob is super good in a shell like this, but it seems like we'd miss Bolt a lot. Just having Bolt in your deck makes Bob so much better against combo, because that's just even less dead draws available to you.

    @JonLX Try my list. The extra selection available supplements the idea of being able to swap threats on the fly in different matchups. The sideboard is obviously not good in the MTGO meta, but I think that at very least the three creatures and two Rough//Tumbles are pretty much universal.

  20. #2260

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    I've been playing a bit of Canadian Threshold on MODO of late...

    The 4 True-Name Nemesis ultimately proved to be my favorite configuration of the above options. My current build:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 True-Name Nemesis

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Forked Bolt

    2 Spell Snare
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    Sideboard:
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    3 Pyroblast
    4 Submerge
    2 Ancient Grudge
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Vendilion Clique

    In this configuration, the plan against Grixis Delver is -2 Spell Snare, -2 Spell Pierce, +3 Pyroblast, +1 Forked Bolt. The win percentage with this build drops a bit against Grixis Delver compared to configuration with access to Tarmogoyf and Dismember. However, it's still pretty east to burn all their small creatures and trump Gurmag Angler with True-Name Nemesis or Force of Will.

    My plan against Elves and Death and Taxes vis-a-vis Rough/Tumble was to max out on Submerge (also great against the hated Sultai Delver) and hope for the best with what I've got against Death and Taxes, which is normally played pretty infrequently.

    In leagues, I seem to be getting more 3-2'd than the 4-1's I was getting pre-Sensei's Divining Top ban. Also, Death and Taxes performed well in the last Legacy Challange. For these reasons I'm wanting to re-evaluate my sideboard and possibly creature configuration further. I'm definitely interested in Delver/Mongoose/Mandrills build with Loam/Scour/Probe. Also, a 4 Delver/3 Mongoose/3 Goyf/2 TNN seems promising as well.

    In any case, I think with the re-emergence of Miracles in the meta and the on-going dominance of Grixis Delver, Nimble Mongoose and Canadian Threshold are reasonably well positioned.
    Some thoughts on your build:

    1) I think that you want less than 12 creatures in pretty much all builds of Canadian, and especially so when you are playing multiple True-Names. I think that you can very easily get away with one less True-Name, probably two if you would like to.

    2) I don't like what playing so many True-Names makes you have to do to your sideboard. Rough//Tumble is one of the main reasons to play Canadian IMO.

    3) I am usually not a fan of forked bolt in canadian, but I actually like it in your list with so many True-Names. You don't NEED to kill Deathrite immediately like a standard goyf/mandrills list does.

    4) I would almost consider siding a basic Island in your list as a card against grixis. Stifle grixis in particular I could see you having a lot of difficulty with, as you're forced to take the midrange role. This ensures you can't get wasted off of cantrip mana, and is an extra land that you can use to cast True-Name. Given your current configuration I'd actually approach the matchup after board differently (assuming stifle grixis):

    In: 1 Forked Bolt, 1 Spell Pierce, 3 Pyroblast
    Out: 2 Nimble Mongoose, 2 Force of Will, 1 Spell Snare

    I would approach the game with the idea of getting to the midgame and just winning with True-Name. The only card that really ends up mattering is Young Pyromancer, as he is the only card that can single-handedly win the game before you get to that point. This is why I would choose to leave in a single spell snare over something like the third Mongoose. You use Stifle to protect your own lands and Spell Pierce to counter Pyroblasts (on your True-Names) and Stifles from the opponent's side. In the matchup Force is only ever used to counter Angler and True-Names anyways, and with 4 of your own True-Names I just don't think that you need the full 4 in.

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