[Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

[jattra]

Thresholders, could aby of you answer a question for me, pls?
Should I try to run Sylvan Library in this deck?
I haven't seen it in your lists posted here. I would like to understand why.
Thanks.

[tescrin]

Ponders just tend to do the same thing a turn earlier while powering Goose.

That said, people often run it as a 1-of in the Side IIRC.

[Raticate_Tail]

Ponders just tend to do the same thing a turn earlier while powering Goose.

That said, people often run it as a 1-of in the Side IIRC.

Library is more of a threat than a cantrip, not that the distinction is terribly important. You should NEVER consider running Library over something like Ponder. I like playing Library in place of Goyf when there's a lot of Swords decks and combo decks.

[Jonathan Alexander]

We originally started playing Library back in 2012 because we wanted 10 1/2 threats preboard and 6 1/2 removal spells. Library did that much better than Snapcaster Mage on average, but back then there were a lot of Swords to Plowshares around to fuel Library.
Library is really only good when you can draw 2+ extra cards and in the current metagame you can't really do that. It's a liability in Delver mirrors, heavy lifeloss is too dangerous against Storm and paying two mana mainphase is too risky vs. all the fast combo decks. There's also Abrupt Decay, which is kind annoying (Decay comes with Goyf, which grows when they kill Library to make it even worse).

Library is still good against Miracles, Stone/Deathblade, D&T, Show and Tell & Maverick, but Winter Orb is better against all of those anyway while also being great against Loam strategies. Sylvan Library tries to win the long game, Winter Orb shuts it off, which plays much better in this deck.

[jattra]

got it. thx

[apistat_commander]

Sylvan Library is a great card, but like all sideboard slots, it is metagame dependent. I like Library in games where other decks have you beat on card advantage so it ensures a consistent stream of card quality for you. At the very least it is like getting a Top activation each turn, but sometimes you can pay 4/8 life to grab a bolt, 2nd counterspell, etc. to allow you to close out the game in a single turn. I ran a singleton Library maindeck when my meta was infested with Blue Jace decks and it was quite helpful there. Sometimes I would even swap a Goyf out for it in Game 2 so that I could draw extra counters against combo.

That being said, the deck has a variety of tools for fighting slow decks: Winter Orb as mentioned before as well as Sulfuric Vortex. Each card gives you different advantages for different MUs so it comes down to what plays well at your local level.

[tescrin]

Yeah I goofed a bit. I should've mentioned what was implicitly mentioned above: It's CDA unless you can spend the life, and in an environment filled with Delvers and Pushes you don't have the luxury. Glad people found a better answer; I partly answered because I thought he may get no feedback.

[Raticate_Tail]

Anyone playing at vegas? I'd love to hear how everyone is doing/ see some reports after.

[cheerios]

There's a 9-0 Rug delver list

[Raticate_Tail]

There's a 9-0 Rug delver list

I just saw! Looking forward to seeing the list.

[ptahetep]

I just saw! Looking forward to seeing the list.

Here you go:

Creature (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Tarmogoyf
2 True-Name Nemesis
Sorcery (5)
1 Forked Bolt
4 Ponder
Instant (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
Land (18)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
60 Cards
Sideboard (15)
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Flusterstorm
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Rough // Tumble
1 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique

[Deadeye_Mongoose]

I ended up running canadian to 10-5 with this list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 Force of Will
4 daze
4 stifle
4 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 dismember

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rough // Tumble
2 submerge
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ground Seal
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Winter Orb


Rounds were:
4c Loam 1-2
Esper Stoneblade 0-2 I got blown out by supreme verdict
BR reanimator 2-0
Storm 2-0
Burn 0-2 I punted really hard
Sneak & Show 2-0
Sneak and Show 2-0
Grixis Delver 2-1 I was playing against a friend of mine, games 1&3 were weird games which ended up being land-battles until eventually I stuck a threat and won. Game 2 he stuck an early TNN with counterspell backup.
No show 2-0 I later learned this was someone from my area who was playing a Show & Tell deck so I'm kind of disappointed he didn't show up.

Mono-red prison 2-0
Bant Deathblade 1-2
Bant Deathblade 2-1
BUG Delver 1-2
Sneak & Show 2-1 This was the one game I dropped vs combo. He got me with a Blood Moon + Force backup
12-post 2-1 notably I sideboarded as if he was playing infect and ended up with 3 dead SB cards game 2. I should have had more coffee

There was a ton of Sneak and Show, Mono-red, and BR reanimator that day which was a big help to anyone playing delver. I don't remember a single match where there wasn't someone at one of the tables next to me wasn't playing one of those decks. The 4x pierce paid off big even against the fair decks.

The only thing I'm super worried about right now with the deck is TNN, especially out of Bant Deathblade. I think I'm gonna try and fit 2 TNN's of my own in the sideboard

[blablub]

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/678079#online

Another 5-0, maybe this deck will be a thing again :)

the 2/2 split solves your TNN problem i guess. Maybe you can play 2 Mandrills in the Slot of the Goyf to fight Pushes and Nemesis as well

[mcbain]

I'm interested for what matchups the pierces are boarded out in.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

[Deadeye_Mongoose]

I'm interested for what matchups the pierces are boarded out in.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

4-color deathblade I bring out most of them because I really only care about their creatures. If they're good they'll board out Jace against me.
Death & taxes I take out all of them.
Some number come out in delver matchups for flusterstorm

Probably some others I'm not thinking of, but honestly the card is jut amazing right now.

[MTB]

Everyday without Canadian content makes my heart bleed so here is my tournament report from Vegas.

My list was:

// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Creature
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Hooting Mandrills
1 True-Name Nemesis

// 26 Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle

// 18 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

// 5 Sorcery
4 Ponder
1 Preordain


// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Creature
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Izzet Staticaster

// 11 Instant
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Red Elemental Blast

// 2 Sorcery
1 Rough // Tumble
1 Life from the Loam


Round 1 & 2

Byes

Won a trial in Frankfurt and 4-0ed a trial the day before (conceded for my opponent in the last round after winning 2-0)


Round 3 Death and Taxes

I lose game 1 to a overwhelming board position after my two Delver decided to stay wizards for 4 turns.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 1 Daze (maybe Force not sure)
- 2 Spellpierce
- 1 Preordain
- 3 Stifle

I opened a pretty removal heavy hand but without a threat. After I cleared every creature he played he manages to stick a mirran which finishes me after failing to find a removal or threat.


Round 4 Sneakshow

He tryes to combo turn 1 lucky me I have the force and beat him down with double delver.

+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast

- 4 Lightning Bolt
- 2 Dismember
- 1 True-Name Nemesis

I start with a delver and a REB for his Show and Tell on turn 2. I hit him while he is cantripping and after two hits with the delver I am able to surgical his S&T so he scoops.


Round 5 Grixis Delver

I beat the shit out of him as my creatures are all better (except for Angler maybe), the disruption too and the manabase also.... really why do people play this shit?

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Stifle
- 2 Spellpierce
- 2 Spell Snare
- 1 Force of Will

I find loam and 4 wastelands :D


Round 6 Burn

I never find a creature.......

+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Submerge
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Rough // Tumble

- 4 Stifle
- 2 Dismember
-1 Wasteland

I got a Goose for the beats and he draws only one mana bolts which bring me down to 3 with him also at 3 and he topdecks....fireblast :(

Round 7 White Drazi

I go first with Delver but without any disruption. My oppenent mulls to 6 and starts with tomb into petal....I started cursing as I feared S&T again but he “only” has little Thalia and passes. We race and I finally win with me at 5 and him at 3.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Rough // Tumble

- 4 Stifle
- 1 Preordain

My opponent mulled to 6 again and plays plains pass. Trop go counters a chalice out of the cavern with a pierce. For the next turns my opponent fails to find a land and just plays 3 walking balistas. The last finally sticks and he finds a City of traitors. So we race Mandrills against Balista....he invests his whole mana each turn in the balista so I figure I am fine with that and I bolt the balista as he tries to put on the fourth counter.


Round 8 Deathblade

I am not sure but the lifetotals tell a story of a zoo-style game from my side and a lot of nothing from his side.

Dont know what I boarded something like

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Submerge
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Spellpierce
- 2 Stifle
- 2 Hooting Mandrills (Swords on Mandrills is tough)
- ???

I get my Delvers sworded but stick a goose which rides me to victory till at him at 10 a nemesis joins on my side so he scoops.


Round 9 Maverick

A really classic of legacy and it feels like 2012 again :D

We race each other and I win a close race thanks to delver and goose.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 2 Submerge
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 4 Stifle
- 2 Spellpierce
- 1 Preordain

He does a lot of noting but suddenly is able to stick a stoneforge into batterskull and suddenly gets marit large (both lands in his hand.....) finally I am 2 damage short as he is able to bounce batterskull in response to my revelry.... my out was that he wont notice.... he did :(

Game 3 I played the classic Combo of goose into Mandrills which finish him after I removed a stoneforge and another random creature with two bolts.


So 7/2 day 1 so far so good

Day 2 to come :)

Kind regards

Marius

[MTB]

Round 10 Deathblade

I manadenial him into oblivion while beating down with goose & delver.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Hooting Mandrills
- 2 Spell Pierce
- 1 Daze
- 2 Stifle

I keep a greedy hand with one Tropical and find the second just in time as he wastelands me right afterwards. Thanks to his wasteland I am stuck on a volcanic which cant cast the gooses I draw and I die after he sticks a Batterskull.

I mull down to 6 and play Delver turn 1. He drops a land and passes. I dont flip but I draw the second delver which I play and pass. My opponent fetches and plays Meddling mage (O.o) naming Bolt. My Delver flip with a dismember and a cantrip finds me another Delver.....After the game he is boarding back and I see he boarded 2 meddling mage and 2 surgical – any ideas why meddling mage?


Round 11 ANT

I dont know what my opponent is on and keep a threat heavy but disruption light hand... I die after bringing him down to 2 but unable to finish him :(

+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast

- 2 Dismember
- 1 True-Name Nemesis
- 3 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Nimble Mungoose
- 1 Preordain/Trop?

I dont remember much of these games but my notes suggest I beat him down with a Delver in both games.


Round 12 Grixis Delver

We trade resources for eternity until I stick the mandrills and he has a Deathrite and I slowly beat him down while he is gaining life with the shaman.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Stifle
- 2 Spellpierce
- 2 Spell Snare
- 1 Force of Will

The Game starts good for me and I feel already the win as he is down to 1 but finally kills my Delver and follows with Angler in the next turn which kills me while I am unable to find a bolt or critter :(

I beat him down with goose while he is never really in the game and probes twice which makes my clock even faster.


Round 13 BUG Delver

I feel the matchup is pretty even if they dont play more than 1 Tombastalker....my opponent had none but at least 2 Angler instead -.- So I loose in a fast fashion to Angler + shaman.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 2 Submerge
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Spell Pierce
- 2 Stifle

Luckily my opponents only creatures are Delvers in this game which I can kill to get my own Delvers through.

In the last game my opponent produces a steady stream of goyfs and Anglers. I even dismember an Angler and a Goyf but he follows with more goyfs :(


Round 14 ANT (Rodrigo Toggores)

I am a little bit nervous after the pairing but I have a great seven with 2 lands Delver 2 Pierce 1 Force 1 Ponder....I beat him down to 5 before I die O.o

+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 2 Surgical Extraction
+ 1 Spell Pierce
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast

- 2 Dismember
- 1 True-Name Nemesis
- 3 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Nimble Mungoose
- 1 Preordain/Trop?

This time my Hand is pretty bad and I play a Delver t1 but my only disruption is pyroblast and daze....When he is down to 6 he comboes off while I have one card he doesnt know (other 2 are pyroblast and land). He uses Dark petition without cracking his LED and plays tutor afterwards....So I think damn my surgical is pretty useless....but then I notice he discarded tendrills with his LED :D

I just have a Mongoose for beats but a Mandrills joins him pretty fast. He therapys me for force of will and sees Surgical Snare and 2 Dazes (and something not relevant). After he passes the turn I attack (drew another Snare ) and pass. He plays land pass. Now I draw my second surgical so I figured I dont want to get therapied so I surgical in his drawstep....lucky me I hit a second one in his hand. When he is at 7 he asks how much cards are in my grave which where 2 at that moment so he passes and in my turn I played:
Surgical your probes
Daze my surgical
Spellsnare my Daze
Daze my other Daze
Fetch
Attack for 7.... he didnt saw that coming :D


Round 15 Grixis Delver

I loose the first to after he kills my delver which brought him down to 7 but is able to stick an Angler (I hate this card so much)


+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Pyroblast
+ 1 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 2 Stifle
- 2 Spellpierce
- 2 Spell Snare
- 1 Force of Will

He cant remove my Mungooses while I bolt his shaman and red blast his delver.

Delver and Mungoose team up for a quick beathdown while he gets his Delver killed and and Angler dismembered.

So 12/3 overall and place 55 :)

Some thoughts about cardchoices

Preordain:
Before the tournament I discussed my list excessively with a friend (thank you very much Kevin :))and we figured that preordain is the best for this slot as other options were:
Forked Bolt
Creature
Spell Pierce
We figured that if these cards are good they are really good but if not they are horrible. So we decided on preordain as cantrips can never be THAT bad doesnt matter which matchup.

True-Name Nemesis:
Felt pretty clunky as 3 mana are a lot but I definitly wanted 11 threats and was not sure which would fit best as all alternatives felt worse:
Hooting Mandrills #3 – They really mess up the Thresh for the goose and drawing multiples sucks
Goyf – Feels really awkward at the moment as it dies to so much and gets walled by Angler and Nemesis
Vendillion Clique – The additional disruption is nice but 3 mana for an unimpressive body is a lot.
Snapcaster Mage – Also a 3 Mana thread but with an even worse body than Vendillion

Izzet Staticaster
Another suggestion from a friend was the Staticaster over the second Rough // Tumble as it comboes better with Nemesis. I sadly never played it but it stayed in the board and I have to say I really like the repitable damage source against Elves Taxes and Infect. Sadly Grimm is not playable in my list as I already run Hooting Mandrills and Mungoose :(



Overall the list felt pretty solid the only thing I would love to have is another good answer to Delve threats and Goyfs but the third dismember is not playable I think :( But the Loam was a good tech in this matchups and defnitly helped here.


Hour of Devastation
Could tragic lesson be playable? It offers real CA like painful truths did in the black splashed lists or in the BUG Threshold. Bouncing a Land is not a real drawback when you already have 3 in play if you play it sorcery speed you can even replay the land to cast it for actually 1U or you can brainstorm the land away.

Kind regards

Marus

[Beast]

Hi guys!

Have been reading here for a while now and finally decided to register. Just for a short introduction of myself, I'm playing MtG for almost 2 decades now and started playing Legacy a couple of years ago. I started Legacy by playing Dredge but shortly thereafter switched to more interactive decks like Punishing Jund, D'n'T and tried out some stuff until I got stuck with all kinds of tempo decks which I made a couple of decent results with since then.
I would consider myself a decent player with some experience yet far away from being a pro player but I'm willing to learn and improve and so here I am asking questions like...

Round 3 Death and Taxes

I lose game 1 to a overwhelming board position after my two Delver decided to stay wizards for 4 turns.

+ 1 True-Name Nemesis
+ 1 Izzet Staticaster
+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 1 Destructive Revelry
+ 1 Rough // Tumble
+ 1 Life from the Loam

- 1 Daze (maybe Force not sure)
- 2 Spellpierce
- 1 Preordain
- 3 Stifle

I opened a pretty removal heavy hand but without a threat. After I cleared every creature he played he manages to stick a mirran which finishes me after failing to find a removal or threat.

Why would you side out that many Stifles against D'n'T? I usually don't cut any of them or 1 at best since they rely on a lot of different abilities which makes Stifle pretty versatile here in my opinion. SFM (both abilities), equip or damage triggers of equipments, the Batterskull token, Wasteland, Vial, Wisp and even mother are things I'd love to stifle from time to time. I want them to spend as many resources as possible on things they eventually get stifled while I can make the clock ticking. They do have inevitability in this matchup I think so I want to gain every advantage possible in the early turns and Stifle does a great job here. Also Stifle protects my lands in the post board games which helps me cast a Nemesis.
As mentioned, I like to keep them in and shave more Forces/Dazes and to me it seems to be pretty legit. I have hardly had any losses in tournament play against D'n'T at all when playing Canadian Thresh. ^^

Round 5 Grixis Delver

I beat the shit out of him as my creatures are all better (except for Angler maybe), the disruption too and the manabase also.... really why do people play this shit?

Cause it's better in the black, I guess. Canadian sure is great against most kinds of relevant decks (including Grixis) right now, but when it comes to facing less common decks I'd also pick Grixis over Canadian since it has more active plays and pretty diverse threats which are hard to handle for most opposing decks. I top-8'ed a 200+ player tournament last year playing Grixis having to fight through 3 Eldrazi decks along with Dredge, Infect, Miracles and 2 times the mirror. I don't think that Canadian would have taken me that far especially against Dredge and the Eldrazi players. Grixis did a great job here since YP stalls the board and DRS puts on some pressure.
Also the combo matchup is pretty decent for they cannot afford waiting to go off as late as possible in order to assamble a counter proof hand 'cause you could just tear apart their hand with Therapy. The mirror spells hard times indeed but when it comes to the rest of the field, Grixis's got a point there. :)

[jattra]

Maybe a noob question: how do we fight Knight of the Reliquary.
It tutors for lands and gets quickly big. I find both very annoying.

[Ralf]

Maybe a noob question: how do we fight Knight of the Reliquary.
It tutors for lands and gets quickly big. I find both very annoying.

Usually you race.
Post side submerge (x3 when Maverick was a thing) is usually enough.