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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2521

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by rlesko View Post
    With 2 Snare and 2 REB I already have 4 hard counters at the ready for strix / snap. Even stifle can stop snapcaster, usually can then ignore the 2/1 body. And then for TNN I just daze those things, getting to 3 mana against our deck should be difficult. And then also REB / force of will if daze is not an option.
    rlesko, could I see your most recent goyf list just now please? I'm prepping for GP Madrid and considering swapping monkeys for lhurgoyfs. Cheers.

  2. #2522

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post

    @bl4ckwell
    I was typing out a response to this but Ryan has basically summed up what I was going to say.
    I think if I had the choice against UB Reanimator of 3 Snare and 2 Reb or 3 Reb and 2 Snare I would go with the 3 Snare, but there might be a way that you can fit both. (And the Ground Seal, and maybe the Sylvan Library). In any case leaving all REB in the SB and not boarding Bolts out seems like a mistake.

    I appreciate you and @rlesko help. I you're both right about dropping the bolts for REB vs UB reanimate, that was a mistake and oversight. I have boarded them like that before, idk why I didn't think about it yesterday when I typed my novel like post lol. As for ground seal, I usually only really use it against BUG delver variants and Czech pile. In order to basically help keep threshold and goyf big against there DRS assuming I didn't have immediate removal, as well as shut down there snapcasters.

    I am going get some games in this upcoming Saturday, I will reports how its goes. I am also going to experiment with playing 1x preordain and losing 1x spell pierce.

  3. #2523

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Likely will be playing this at GP madrid - decklist a few pages back.

    Debating goyf and Hooting - only because in europe there is a lot of miracles and think it may be more represented than Czech pile.

  4. #2524

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Danzan View Post
    rlesko, could I see your most recent goyf list just now please? I'm prepping for GP Madrid and considering swapping monkeys for lhurgoyfs. Cheers.
    Unfortunately, I have not been playing very much lately. I am going to take my same list

    https://mtgtop8.com/event?e=17345&d=307297&f=LE

    with a grafdigger's cage instead of the sylvan library to SCG Worcester this weekend. I may play something different in the Chain Lightning slot if I'm feeling spicy (Dead // Gone) interests me.

  5. #2525

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Ryan,

    Planning to play the deck again, big love of mine, but I love to play funky stuff from time to time, so I don't keep playing the same thing.

    I follow the maindeck, but I'm not sure about the 2 spots that you fill in with chain lightning and Preordain. (the dismember I'm doubting about, but it's so good against anglers and eldrazi and otherwise a one mana spot removal against other stuff.

    I was planning to play 1 extra spell pierce main instead of the preordain, according to recent lists, but I get the preordain. The only 'fear' I have is that you will board it out most of the times for an extra spell pierce, what are your thoughts on this?

    The chain lightning spot I was planning to fill in with Forked Bolt/Tarfire/Seal of Fire. I had the Forked Bolt first, which should be good against DnT or Elves, but the tarfire or seal can grow your goyf. But since I also wanted to play a Dead // Gone in the side, I might be able to play it main.

    The grafdigger's cage I think is a good call, I'm tempting to play 2/1 cage/surgical, since cage will help me against elfs and reanimator even more, but most elves have a way to destroy the cage.

    Any thoughts on Ground Seal in the side as goyf saver and anti-snap/DRS? Or any sweepers in the board like Rough // Tumble or Sudden Demise?

  6. #2526

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by themtgzealot View Post
    Likely will be playing this at GP madrid - decklist a few pages back.

    Debating goyf and Hooting - only because in europe there is a lot of miracles and think it may be more represented than Czech pile.
    That's one of the reasons I feel like sleeving Goyf and maybe playing 1x Orb in the side. I know the matchup is favourable but shoring it up seems like an idea.

    Question for those with actual experience with these cards: merits/drawbacks of playing seal of fire/tarfire over more flexible removal like dismember/forked bolt are obvious, which do you believe is better positioned?

    Looking to rock this just now:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 Tarmogoyf
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    4 Daze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Stifle
    1 Preordain
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    1 Seal of Fire
    1 Tarfire
    4 Wasteland
    2 Flooded Strand
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island


    1 Winter Orb
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Abrade
    1 Izzet Staticaster
    1 Submerge
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Sylvan Library

    Trying to find room for a cage in the SB, might cut 2nd fluster.

  7. #2527

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Any thoughts about replacing the second Ancient Grudge with an Artifact Mutation? (instead of an abrade)

    Sure, Ancient Grudge is the best stuff there is, and against Chalice the AM doesn't have any extra's, but I'm thinking against DnT, Blade decks, Strix decks, ...

    Drooling behind my screen here

    Was thinking to play a Gilded Drake, just for fun, but I guess a Clique is better against a lot more match up's. (Miracles, Storm, Chalice Decks, ...)

  8. #2528

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Artifact Mutation is a cute idea but if you kill Chalice with it you get nothing and most other matchups probably won't be threatened by a couple of 1/1s
    It might be good if you expect to play against Ensnaring Bridge a lot but then the fact it can't be cast under a Blood Moon becomes a relevant drawback (and maybe the flashback is still more important)

    The reasoning for my build is the following:

    - Having answers to 5/5s is important because it significantly increases your win% against Anglers and Eldrazi
    - Dismember is okay but the 4 life is a significant drawback in Delver mirrors and it's not very good against Smasher
    - You already get to play 3-4 Tarmogoyf so it's a convenient solution to your opponent's big creatures that doesn't require you to change your deck much
    - In order to make Tarmogoyf 5/6 reliably I think you need at minimum 2 pieces of off-type removal
    - Seal of Fire and Tarfire are the only things up for consideration (if you really value flexibility then you could play Pyrite Spellbomb but not killing DRS on turn 1 is too big of a drawback imo)
    - Tarfire flips Delver but Seal of Fire is a better removal spell and DRS can't eat it out of the graveyard. You could play a 1/1 split but it's incredibly rare that you will draw both for the double buff and 6/7 is far less important than 5/6 anyway
    - Playing 2 Seal and only 3 Goyf feels like it's not maximizing the payoff of playing 2 Seal of Fire so I would rather play 4 Tarmogoyf than 3
    - With 12 creatures maybe some people feel the deck is too 'clunky', I find the 1 Preordain is excellent to smooth out the draws a little more, extra Spell Pierce or Spell Snare can be underwhelming in multiples and in general in Delver mirrors if one person is cantripping and the other isn't then the player who is fixing their draws tends to come out ahead in my experience. (Also having a 5th sorcery is sometimes nice for Goyf when 4 Ponder are the only others)

    I don't find myself boarding it out. You don't board out the 4th Ponder right? If you could play 5 Ponder would you board that 5th Ponder for Pierce every game? Probably not, you still have other cards that are bad in different matchups that you can cut instead.

    Maybe Ground Seal could go in my Winter Orb slot, I think Seal is a good idea but I don't know that it has a big enough impact and it interacts poorly with Surgical Extraction (edit: Ryan reminded me that I think I just value Loam too much to play this)

  9. #2529

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    Ryan,

    Planning to play the deck again, big love of mine, but I love to play funky stuff from time to time, so I don't keep playing the same thing.

    I follow the maindeck, but I'm not sure about the 2 spots that you fill in with chain lightning and Preordain. (the dismember I'm doubting about, but it's so good against anglers and eldrazi and otherwise a one mana spot removal against other stuff.

    I was planning to play 1 extra spell pierce main instead of the preordain, according to recent lists, but I get the preordain. The only 'fear' I have is that you will board it out most of the times for an extra spell pierce, what are your thoughts on this?

    The chain lightning spot I was planning to fill in with Forked Bolt/Tarfire/Seal of Fire. I had the Forked Bolt first, which should be good against DnT or Elves, but the tarfire or seal can grow your goyf. But since I also wanted to play a Dead // Gone in the side, I might be able to play it main.

    The grafdigger's cage I think is a good call, I'm tempting to play 2/1 cage/surgical, since cage will help me against elfs and reanimator even more, but most elves have a way to destroy the cage.

    Any thoughts on Ground Seal in the side as goyf saver and anti-snap/DRS? Or any sweepers in the board like Rough // Tumble or Sudden Demise?
    Hello!

    Reasons for Chain Lightning is it kills Leo (none of the other options for that spot kill 3 toughness creatures and 2 dismember is too much life to give up I feel). The fact that it is a sorcery is usually not that much of a factor for me - most things are kill on sight anyways (deathrites, moms, stoneforges, etc). Also when you burn your opponent for 3 damage it is usually a 1 turn clock difference (1 hit from delver or goose). 2 damage doesn't change the clock most times I feel. So that is why I like 3 damage burn spell.

    I think 3 spell pierce main deck is too many for game 1. I like the preordain to act as "5th ponder". When you replace the "5th ponder" with a burn spell, or another counter spell, it makes sideboarding hard. Having a card that can stay in your deck for all match ups but easily be substituted if you have a much better card is nice for me.

    Remember, Grafdigger's cage does not have application against Lands / Turbo Depths, and is not functionally another "Force of Will" on the draw against reanimator.

    I did test ground seal and it is great vs CP, but I feel like our deck is already favored against them anyways, and if you want to make a commitment to running ground seal, the sideboard needs to be reworked a bit (Ground Seal is a nonbo with Surgicals and Life from the Loam).

    Hope you find my thoughts helpful

  10. #2530

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    Any thoughts about replacing the second Ancient Grudge with an Artifact Mutation? (instead of an abrade)

    Sure, Ancient Grudge is the best stuff there is, and against Chalice the AM doesn't have any extra's, but I'm thinking against DnT, Blade decks, Strix decks, ...

    Drooling behind my screen here

    Was thinking to play a Gilded Drake, just for fun, but I guess a Clique is better against a lot more match up's. (Miracles, Storm, Chalice Decks, ...)
    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Artifact Mutation is a cute idea but if you kill Chalice with it you get nothing and most other matchups probably won't be threatened by a couple of 1/1s
    It might be good if you expect to play against Ensnaring Bridge a lot but then the fact it can't be cast under a Blood Moon becomes a relevant drawback (and maybe the flashback is still more important)

    The reasoning for my build is the following:

    - Having answers to 5/5s is important because it significantly increases your win% against Anglers and Eldrazi
    - Dismember is okay but the 4 life is a significant drawback in Delver mirrors and it's not very good against Smasher
    - You already get to play 3-4 Tarmogoyf so it's a convenient solution to your opponent's big creatures that doesn't require you to change your deck much
    - In order to make Tarmogoyf 5/6 reliably I think you need at minimum 2 pieces of off-type removal
    - Seal of Fire and Tarfire are the only things up for consideration (if you really value flexibility then you could play Pyrite Spellbomb but not killing DRS on turn 1 is too big of a drawback imo)
    - Tarfire flips Delver but Seal of Fire is a better removal spell and DRS can't eat it out of the graveyard. You could play a 1/1 split but it's incredibly rare that you will draw both for the double buff and 6/7 is far less important than 5/6 anyway
    - Playing 2 Seal and only 3 Goyf feels like it's not maximizing the payoff of playing 2 Seal of Fire so I would rather play 4 Tarmogoyf than 3
    - With 12 creatures maybe some people feel the deck is too 'clunky', I find the 1 Preordain is excellent to smooth out the draws a little more, extra Spell Pierce or Spell Snare can be underwhelming in multiples and in general in Delver mirrors if one person is cantripping and the other isn't then the player who is fixing their draws tends to come out ahead in my experience. (Also having a 5th sorcery is sometimes nice for Goyf when 4 Ponder are the only others)

    I don't find myself boarding it out. You don't board out the 4th Ponder right? If you could play 5 Ponder would you board that 5th Ponder for Pierce every game? Probably not, you still have other cards that are bad in different matchups that you can cut instead.

    Maybe Ground Seal could go in my Winter Orb slot, I think Seal is a good idea but I don't know that it has a big enough impact and it interacts poorly with Surgical Extraction
    I agree with Kombatkiwi on his whole post, except I don't hesitate to board out preordain if I have a high impact sideboard card.

    In regards to Gilded, I find the best idea is to prevent your opponents from ever getting fat creatures into play :)

  11. #2531

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    So I keep the preordain, and the dismember. And as last slot, I will be using the Chain Lighting with a Seal of Fire in the side. With no possible answer against the turbo Depths. (or I need to change one of them by Dead // Gone)

    So do you board the seal in against CP (or even Eldrazi) to make goyf grow? Against CP it's maybe not so necessary and against Eldrazi, it's not so convenient.

    Last question, do you side in the Clique against SnT and Storm? I know it can be very good, but we are already Siding in a lot in these matches.

  12. #2532

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I board like

    CP:
    +2 REB

    -1 Force / Daze
    -1 Preordain ( )

    Eldrazi:
    -4 Nimble Mongoose
    -4 Stifle

    +2 Ancient Grudge
    +2 TNN
    +2 Winter Orb
    +1 Vendilion Clique
    +1 Seal of Fire

    and yes, I bring in clique against all combo decks

  13. #2533

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I love tight sideboard plans.

    I'll work on the rest of my SB plans, and if I'm not sure about something I'll ask.

    Maybe on Sunday on the stream: https://www.twitch.tv/magic_masters_mol
    (on Saturday I will be commenting on the Modern stream)

  14. #2534
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Here is the latest version of my list, two days before SCG Worcester.

    RUG 50 (no goyf) 2 Hooting Mandrills, 2 Gitaxian Probe, 2 Snare, 2 Pierce, 1 Forked Bolt, 1 Dead // Gone

    SB:
    3 Pyroblast
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Rough // Tumble
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Destructive Revelry
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Dismember
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Ground Seal

    What are your latest thoughts on this list?

    I am pondering whether to change the Ground Seal for a Grafdigger's Cage.

    In any case, wish me luck!

  15. #2535

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hi dudes!

    I have a tournament this weekend, and I want to play with this deck. However I have only 3 volcanic and 2 Tropical Island. What is the best way to build the mana base? ( I use just 6 green cards MD, 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills) . Some ideas that I thought to replace the 3º tropical island are:

    1) replace for 1 breeding pool
    2) replace for 1 basic land (island or forest) - I have 4 misty rainforest
    3) replace for 1 taiga
    4) replace for +1 fetchland ( total 9)
    5) Use only 17 lands and put 1 gitaxian probe (virtual 59 cards MD)


    Recalling that from green I only use 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills MD.

    Can anybody help me?

  16. #2536

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by lexluthor View Post
    Hi dudes!

    I have a tournament this weekend, and I want to play with this deck. However I have only 3 volcanic and 2 Tropical Island. What is the best way to build the mana base? ( I use just 6 green cards MD, 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills) . Some ideas that I thought to replace the 3º tropical island are:

    1) replace for 1 breeding pool
    2) replace for 1 basic land (island or forest) - I have 4 misty rainforest
    3) replace for 1 taiga
    4) replace for +1 fetchland ( total 9)
    5) Use only 17 lands and put 1 gitaxian probe (virtual 59 cards MD)


    Recalling that from green I only use 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills MD.

    Can anybody help me?
    All of these ideas are ~okay~ except for playing Taiga or basic Forest (playing non-blue lands is really bad with 1-land cantrip hands, non-island lands also fuck up Daze so 1 Botanical Sanctum isn't great either)
    I think that playing Breeding Pool has the least significant 'fail case' out of the remaining choices
    Next best would be -1 Trop +1 Fetch
    And I think that -Trop +Probe is worse than both of the above, but I haven't really tested this much (or at all, honestly) so maybe it's just mental inertia on my part

    1 basic island is a potentially spicy option but I think it has too much of a meta-call aspect to choose that in general over 1 breeding pool

  17. #2537

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by lexluthor View Post
    Hi dudes!

    I have a tournament this weekend, and I want to play with this deck. However I have only 3 volcanic and 2 Tropical Island. What is the best way to build the mana base? ( I use just 6 green cards MD, 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills) . Some ideas that I thought to replace the 3º tropical island are:

    1) replace for 1 breeding pool
    2) replace for 1 basic land (island or forest) - I have 4 misty rainforest
    3) replace for 1 taiga
    4) replace for +1 fetchland ( total 9)
    5) Use only 17 lands and put 1 gitaxian probe (virtual 59 cards MD)


    Recalling that from green I only use 4 nimble and 2 Hooting Mandrills MD.

    Can anybody help me?

    you should be VERY fine with going +1 fetchland and only playing 2 tropical island. I dont see a big problem there.

  18. #2538

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I would play the breeding pool, but understand you will lose some games due to the interaction between shocklands and daze.

    Get the trop ASAP.

  19. #2539

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Scrubbed out @ Worcester today

    Started off 2-0, beating Big Red and Grixis Delver

    Dropped 3 in a row to Big Red, ANT, and BR Reanimator :shrug:

    Still happy with the deck!

  20. #2540
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I had a great week-end at Worcester, a good start wasted!

    Round 1, John on Aluren, 2-0, 1-0

    Round 2, Brian on UB Reanimator, 2-1, 2-0

    Round 3, Zach on Grixis Delver, 1-2, 2-1

    Round 4, Cory on Turbo Depths (finished 9th), 2-0, 3-1

    Round 5, Kristopher on Lands, 2-0, 4-1

    Round 6, Peter on Eldrazi, 0-2, 4-2

    Round 7, Drake on Grixis Delver (finished 1st), 0-2, 4-3

    Round 8, Odin on Eldrazi, 1-2, 4-4

    Round 9, Ben on Miracles, 0-2, 4-5

    For the Classic, things were looking up, until some more Grixis Delver

    Round 1, Daniel on R/B Prison, 2-0, 1-0

    Round 2, Joseph on Sneak and Show, 2-0, 2-0

    Round 3, Andy on Grixis Delver, 0-2, 2-1

    Round 4, Dylan on Grixis Delver, 0-2, 2-2

    Round 5, James on Elves!, 2-1, 3-2

    Round 6, Andrew on Mono black value, 2-0, 4-2

    Round 7, Chad on R/B Reanimator, 2-1, 5-2

    Round 8, Marc on Turbo Depths, 0-2, 5-3


    So yeah, 4 losses against Grixis Delver, 2 against Eldrazi. I should have played Goyf that week-end!

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