Hi. I just recently started playing RUG and I am experimenting with 4 Gitaxian Probes main instead of 3 flex and 1 Snare. I think it is a great card that fits perfectly in this deck (threshold, info for stifle). Recently I am also thinking Probes can maybe support cutting one land, down to 17.
I am also trying to fit in Pyromancers as they work great with Probes (4 DoS, 4 NM, 2 Pyro, 1 Mandrills). I am not sure if they really fit with the deck strategy so well, but it seems a good replacement to TNN when used with Probes, but costing one mana less.
Today I saw that on online challenge Bradisek is also playing 4 Probes and has some good results (decklist), so I am interesting in what you all think about playing Probes and Pyromancers in RUG Delver.
Nice run, Turboninja. Were you on mandril and probes?
Better luck next time, Rlesko
Slawwc: from playing grixis i agree probe is fantastic. I have also been bothered that we fold to blood moon. Playing red creature(s) might help in that departement.
Heh, it happens. Just wasn't running very hot, and had many "FoW check" match ups.
I think I misplayed game 2 against storm (lost game 1), involving a weird situation where he cracked a fetch that he played on the previous turn, that I probably should not have stifled.
I had flusterstorm, surgical, and stifle in hand (flipped surgical to a delver, so he knew about it). I stifled his fetch to keep him off black (he had an island and misty rainforest in play), but then he played another land, duress me, and empty. With stifle and flusterstorm, I think I should just force him to have 2 discard spells. If I save my spells, he can't win! Good sequencing on his part, though!
That is the one takeaway I had form the tournament.
Otherwise, losing to BR reanimator and moon stompy is boring. :shrug:
Yeah, on Saturday I had 2 mandrills and 2 probes instead of the usual 4 Goyfs. On Sunday, it was 2 mandrills, 1 probe and 1 winter orb. On both occasions, I decided to play 2 Forked Bolts instead of my usual split between FB and Dead // Gone.Originally Posted by JackaBo
I am presently thinking about trying the Chain Lightning version to be slightly more aggressive against my poor matchups (Eldrazi and Grixis Delver), seeing as most of the games I lost left them between 2 and 5 life. It would be main 54, - goyf + 2 mandrills, 4 Chain Lightning 2 Spell Pierce 2 Spell Snare. Maybe a couple Price of Progress in the sideboard.
I really don't like going the TNN way, as Grixis and Stoneblade do it so much better than us. I feel like to play to our strengths, we need to stay a tempo deck.
Hi all! Lately I've been trying to tune my RUG list and was looking for some advice after browsing the sub. The TNN are in question now especially and I am leaning towards slotting in a Seal of Fire main. The maybe odd SB and main surgical are due to my meta overflowing with Lands and KotR decks. Please feel free to offer criticism
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Tarmogoyf
2 TNN
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Forked Bolt
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Ground Seal
2 Pyroblast
1 Winter Orb
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Dismember
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Echoing Truth
1 Flusterstorm
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rough // Tumble
1 Destructive Revelry
Hey there! I certainly recommend more than one Rough//Tumble, the card is just obscene. I also recommend abrade, it's fantastic in the D&T matchup, good against any chalice deck, and can also just be brought in for when I need more spot removal.
If you have a lot of lands in your meta, you could consider running Life from the Loam. Recuring wastelands is really convenient both as lands hate and also just in other matchups.
I guess The Best thing To do is To switch The md surgical with The dismember in your sideboard. The reason is that a singleton grave hate is Not enough To consistently stop loam decks in g1, While another removal spell Can help You against opposing shamans And big fatties (especially gurmag, a true beating for The deck).
Another card i'd also recommend To play against loam decks in your sideboard is submerge, which Can help You against either fast marit lages and unanswered knights /goyfs .
Inviato dal mio SM-A300FU utilizzando Tapatalk
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Predict
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
Sideboard
3 Pyroblast
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Abrade
1 Counterspell
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Barbarian Ring
Top 8ed a small event with this today, most notable addition is the two Predicts in the main deck. I'm getting more and more high on the card, and it brought me a lot of wins throughout the day.
R1: Ruby Storm
G1: I have a quickish clock and counter all his cost-reducers. Eventually, however, he is able to double Grapeshot me beating my single Stifle in hand.
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Dismember
-2 Nimble Mongoose
+1 Counterspell
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 Surgical Extraction
+2 Abrade
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Sylvan Library
G2: I have fast Delver and Drills beats and a boatload of counters (I refil at some stage with a Predict, really putting the nail in the coffin).
G3: Looks like an early match loss when my opponent plays a t1 Defense Grid, but I cantrip around and eventually find an Abrade to blow it up. Delver comes into play along with me being able to cantrip into some action that can beat the rest of his hand, especially after I Wasteland his tomb.
R2: Miracles
G1: Am able to establish Goose early, eventually grow him into a threat, Stifle a Terminus which my opponent Forces, but I have more Mongooses to play and a Force pitching Delver for his Jace. Exactly what you want in game one - a Mongoose heavy hand where you can pace your hand and only be concerned about Terminus and not Plow-Snap-Plow.
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Dismember
-2 Hooting Mandrills
+1 Counterspell
+1 Flusterstorm
+2 True-Name Nemesis
+1 Sylvan Library
+3 Pyroblast
G2: I end up having to over-commit to the board a bit as I draw multiple Delvers to accompany my turn one Delver, rather than letting them be pitch fodder as they usually are. The second one nicely helps trigger a Predict (though the Predict gets Counterspelled - showing how threatening it is!) and I Wasteland my opponent off double white - they can't play a Verdict they'd let sit in their hand. My opponent (a good friend of mine) also screwed up a cantrip that made him miss a second White source once more.
R3: Turbo Depths
I hate this matchup. But somehow I squeak it out.
G1: I get a fast Delver and Mandrills and just counter enough setup spells and have a Wastelandand Stifle ready to go that my opponent can't do enough.
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Dismember
-2 Nimble Mongoose
+2 Abrade
+1 Ancient Grudge
+1 Counterspell
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Sylvan Library
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Life from the Loam
G2: Mulligan to a six with no coloured source, but have Wasteland and Force to keep my opponent at bay for the time being. I end up drawing no coloured source for a few turns and die.
G3: Similar to game one, though a critical turn comes with me Predicting away a Strand I knew about and then drawing a Snare right on time to counter a Sylvan Scrying. Really showed the strength of the card. I end up with Force, Stifle x2 in hand that he cannot beat.
R4: Storm
ID
R5: Elves
ID
Top 8: Infect
G1: I'm able to have enough removal to keep my opponent on his toes. Elfs get killed immediately and Inkmoth finds itself also killed to a Bolt + Daze to counter the Invigorate pumping it. From there the idiots cruise to victory.
+3 Pyroblast
+2 Abrade
+1 Flusterstorm
+1 Life from the Loam
+1 Barbarian Ring
+1 Sylvan Library
-4 Stifle
-2 Spell Snare
-3 Daze
G2: I'm very behind, as my opponent goes turn one Hierarch into turn two Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, defending it from my Bolt with a Flusterstorm. Jace gets to work, ticking up and sabotaging my Delver. Eventually I kill the Hierarch, keeping the Nexus a 1/1, and have a 1/2 Delver to block. I do so, he Become Immenses, I Pierce, he Dazes. So my Delver gets eaten. I go to Wasteland the Nexus but am met with Teferi's Response. Tilt. Eventually I assemble Loam to deal with the Nexus though. An Agent comes down and Jace ticks down to recast BE, taking me to eight. I find a Blast for the Agent though, and eventually assemble Ring Loam with a new Delver cruising through. Jace dies to Ring, then all my opponent's creatures die to Ring. It was beautiful.
Top 4: 4c Delver
G1: This is vs. Steve Stamopoulos, fellow Salt Mine host. He's been on a very scary 4c Delver with DRS, Goyf and Angler, all must-kills. The mana of the deck, however, is very fragile. G1 I was on the play and we had a stand-off for many turns, him with two Delta and me with two Stifles. Eventually my opponent has to make a play lest discard to handsize, and then he gets his lands Stifled into a oblivion. A Predict then gasses me back up and a Delver cruises to victory.
-3 Stifle
-4 Delver of Secrets
+1 Life from the Loam
+2 True-Name Nemesis
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Flusterstorm
G2: My hand is bizarre. Double Bolt, TNN x2 and a Force + 2 lands. So I keep, the plan being to kill t1 DRS, Force Goyf and then double TNN my opponent. Everything goes to plan, though Steve protects his Goyf with a Force. I don't find my third land but do find more removal, enough to kill the Goyf via double removal spell. Steve finds another DRS, but double TNN cruise to victory.
Finals: Turbo Depths
G1: Uneventful, he plays Needle, I Pierce, he has another, names Wasteland and then I can't win.
G2: Mull to five, have Loam + Wasteland + FoW + Blue card! Scry Trop to the Top, we have a chance. He discards my FoW, plays Needle on Wasteland and naturally plays DD. Well, great. GG.
Overall, the list felt so smooth and slick. I love the Predicts and will keep trying them. They feel similar to the Chart a Course in the GP Madrid list that recently Top 8ed. Just a card that can be slotted into a moment in the game to refuel and keep the tempo pushing forward, as well as fuel Thresh. I highly recommend people give them a shot.
Last edited by ChemicalBurns; 03-13-2018 at 01:28 AM.
I’ve honestly really enjoyed having the surgical MB. It definitely blindsides people and combo decks are sometimes denied a game 1 that they go into expecting to win. Submerge is definitely a card that often takes the place of the Echoing Truth in the SB but I was trying Truth as more a catch all to hit decks that go wide as well
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Rough // Tumble has definitely been shining more for me than in the past and I would agree that going up to two isn’t a bad call. Abrade was fantastic when D&T was running rampant and taking it out was a definite meta call but the ability to hit chalice never occurred to me. Loam used to be in as well but against Lands I already had such efficient hate and against decks where my wastelands were already good it felt like a win more. Maybe it’s time to try it out again
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice finish! Your 75 are really neat. In R3 you sideboard in two loams. Is this a typo? The other thing about your SB I’m curious about are Counterspell, Sylvan Library, and Barbarian Ring. Overall how did you feel about them? Ring seems spicy but I’m curious about how often you can line it up and hit it with loam. Haven't commited to Library myself because it seems like it's off tempo.
Last edited by Morzakin; 03-12-2018 at 03:20 PM.
Predict has always felt a bit clunky to me with a curve as low as ours. Granted, I am very interested in it. And with counterbalance making a resurgence, it could be poised to have an impact...
Yes, typo! Only one Loam.
Counterspell is a skeleton key card. It is useful in combo matchups as a somewhat clunky but servicable piece of countermagic, but also comes in against grindy matchups as a blanket answer to stop non-Blue threats that cannot be Pyroblasted. Decks like Miracles (they will play Mentor, Gideon, etc that can be problematic, and they can often develop their mana past our soft countermagic) and Loam (Knight in particular) and Pile (Lilianas) all get covered by the Counterspell. I've been very, very happy with it over the second Flusterstorm. I will almost never bring it in when matchups are mana-tight, however.
Sylvan Library has always been very good to me, especially when running Predict. I will bring it in against all grindy matchups (usually I will immediately draw two additional cards since we are the aggro deck and do not care about our life) and also against combo - often you will counter their early "go-off" but will need a way to refill your hand for the next wave (especially relevant vs. ANT, a deck with Past in Flames). There is usually a window where Library can let you do this. And yeah, with Predict it's basically insane.
Barbarian Ring is basically an additional removal spell ala how people play a Forked Bolt/Seal of Fire in the sideboard. However, it truly shines against D&T. It helps you develop your mana and can kill active Mother of Runes - really relieves the pressure of "Turn One Mom, go". And then, if you have Loam going, eventually you will hit Ring and it will act as an inevitability engine against many many decks, as I achieved against Infect and I have achieved in the past vs. Grixis and even Czech Pile. It's very powerful at little cost.
I always thought it would be clunky too - but it's the instant-speed nature of it that makes it so good in RUG. Of all the Delver decks we are the most reactive due to our core of Stifle/Snare/Pierce and no Probes so we are almost always holding up one or two mana. Being able to fill in those turns with a Predict is very, very powerful and really pulls you ahead. It can be very clunky in matchups where your mana is under attack though (Delver mirrors, D&T), but unlike other grind cards used previously (Loam, Library, etc.) Predict always has the option of being Force of Will food, which in my mind is very relevant. Do note that we have 12 ways to flip it with Delver! A sequence I have actually done is t1 hold up Stifle (usually I would play Delver, but because Predict I did otherwise), Stifle opp. fetch, t2 play Delver, t3 check with Delver and upkeep Predict, hit third land drop and still have ability to hold up mana, counter stuff and have a refilled hand. YMMV, but I've been surprised at how effective it's been. Oh, and it feeds Thresh effectively too!
Soo, finally got some legacy games in after not playing for a couple of months, My LGS was supposed to have a 8 man legacy, but only 5 people showered up, so we just ended playing each other casually.
My set up was :
Main (60)
Creatures (11)
4x delver
4x nimble moongoose
3x tarmogoyf
Spells (31)
4x brainstorm
4x ponder
1x preordain
4x force of will
4x daze
4x stifle
2x spell pierce
2x spell snare
4x lightning bolt
1x dismember
1x tarfire
Land (18)
3x volcanic island
3x tropical island
4x wasteland
4x polluted delta
4x flooded strand
Sideboard (15)
2x REB
1x counterspell
2x flusterstorm
1x spell pierce
1x grafdiggers cage
2x surgical extraction
2x ancient grudge
1x sylvan library
1x dismember
1x dead/gone
1x TNN
Really interested in adding 2x winter orb to SB for eldrazi/stompy decks and control in general.
I find that this mainboard is pretty well set up against a lot of decks game 1. I am loving the preordain. The tarfire as my 6th removal I found to be great, it killed most things I needed it to kill(delvers, DRS, MOR, Thalia) and many times got goyf to 5/6. I also liked that its instant speed.
I really didn't take notes, so im going by memory, so some matchups wont have that many details.
The decks I played against were
Eldrazi aggro with chalices
UB Reanimator
BUG Delver variant (Hymns and anglers)
DnT
I played the Eldrazi guy 2x because I felt it was a good learning match up. I went 1-3 first round, 2-3 second round.
Both games I lost game 1. They were close, but got out raced.
My SB for this matchup was:
+2 ancient grudge
+1 spell pierce
+1 counterspell
+2 surgical extraction
+1 dismember
-2 spell snare
-4 nimble mongoose
-1 stifle
I thought it would be important to have stifles against ratchet bombs and opposing wastelands.
So basic plan was prevent chalice, clock them with flipped delvers, and wasteland, then surgical extract their Eye of Ugin and Cavern/temples.
Preordain as an 9th cantrip really helped get me the cards I needed.
Counterspell won me 2 games from late game reality smashers, after already using both my dismembers in those games. Definitely a very challenging matchup.
I will detail the other matchups later.
This matchup alone makes me understand running winter orbs.
I would not bring in surgical extraction against eldrazi - this seems really wrong to me. There are not a lot of high upside cards to hit from them, and they don't use their graveyard at all
Also, cutting spell snare seems pretty wrong - it has many targets, ratchet bomb, chalice on 1, eldrazi mimic, and umezawa's jitte
you should bring in the true name nemesis as well.
the spell pierces are ok, but i would not want 3 of them vs eldrazi. they are not very good on the draw, and eldrazi has many creature heavy draws that create virtual disadvantage for cards like spell pierce.
i would also bring in the sylvan library - you can't pay life vs them but its a way to repeatedly improve your draw step if your cantrips are shut off via chalice
You have 11 creatures in your deck...
You are going to board out 4 mongeeses in this fast matchup? Who's going to chump for you to keep your life high.
Why are you boarding in Spell pierces for? They have so much extra mana. They don't even play spells except maybe to get you for chalice for 1. YOu need stifle on their rachet bomb.
I agree that Goose is mediocre; but so is Stifle - there is barely any value to get from it. Get into the habit of boarding it out completely against non-fetch decks, because it's way too high variance there. I would SB:
+1 Dismember
+1 Dead // Gone
+1 True-Name Nemesis
+2 Ancient Grudge
+1 Sylvan Library
+1 Spell Pierce
+1 Counterspell
-4 Stifle
-4 Nimble Mongoose
I'm still not sure if I understand or agree with taking out threats down to 8 of them against Eldrazi. I recognize that Mongoose is the worst of our threats against them, but at a certain point you just need to work with what you have. Delver gets ballistaed and we only have so many goyfs, so I don't really want to be relying on the single TNN we board in to deal with them. A draw with goose and wastelands is oftentimes going to be enough, we have better things to take out in my opinion like spell pierce. Speaking of which, why would you board out stifle and board in spell pierce. Against Chalice Pierce is better, sure, but against ratchet bomb you can afford to find stifle a turn later and don't need to be holding up mana to protect against it which is a huge plus.
You are probably right. The reason I took the mongooses out, was that my main concern was preventing chalice on 1, even though I do have grudges after game 1. I thought that the surgical extractions were a good idea, because it helped stop their mana ramping, and made it so I could actually counter their creatures (By extracting cavern of souls). I did win games by having a counterspell for a late game smasher and/or endbringer. It was most likely due to inexperience playing eldrazi, but it is a real pain to play them between their seemingly endless mana, large creatures and chalice. The games I won were all from double flipped delver with 5/6 goyfs to block, and a lot of removal/ bolts to the face.
I do agree should have boarded in TNN.
So Just to continue,
DnT, I find this a really good matchuo for this deck, and me personally since I play against DnT a lot at both LGS I play at, as well as close friend playing this deck.
I went 3-1, lost game 1, was close though. I not a huge fan of TNN in this matchup because sometimes 3 mana against DnT can problematic, but it worked out these games.
My SB was
+2 ancient grudge
+1 sylvan library
+1 counterspell
+1 dead/gone
+1 TNN
-4 FoW
-2 DoS
Sylvan and stifle shined post SB in all games. Library kept my hand full with removal for MoR. Stifle on RiP etb trigger was huge, as well as opposing wastelands. Goyfs got big and did work, as did the mongooses. I got TNN casted in one game. My only issue I ran into was Sanctum prelate on 1, but dismember did the trick.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote