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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #241
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Unless you copied someone's exact sideboard from here, I'd wager that none of us have the exact same fifteen. This makes me feel that a precise sideboarding guide (+x, -y) is basically pointless. Like, I know I should board in Sulfur Elemental against D&T, but I don't have one in my board because I don't actually expect that much D&T. My sideboard changes every tournament I go to, depending on what's doing well. A detailed plan is a good basis, but there may be cards in the example sideboard that some people refuse to play, for whatever reason.

    Certainly the general strategy is to board out some number of Forces and Dazes against non-combo decks, and board out some removal spells and/or Goyfs against the combo decks. Obviously, it's not that black-and-white, but we all know the basics. Hopefully.

    Oh and hopefully everyone has at least two REB variants, two Submerge, and one Ancient Grudge - I feel like those are universal qualifications for any self-respecting Thresh pilot.
    Pizza, beer, and Canadian Thresh.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  2. #242

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Exuberance View Post
    Unless you copied someone's exact sideboard from here, I'd wager that none of us have the exact same fifteen. This makes me feel that a precise sideboarding guide (+x, -y) is basically pointless. Like, I know I should board in Sulfur Elemental against D&T, but I don't have one in my board because I don't actually expect that much D&T. My sideboard changes every tournament I go to, depending on what's doing well. A detailed plan is a good basis, but there may be cards in the example sideboard that some people refuse to play, for whatever reason.

    Certainly the general strategy is to board out some number of Forces and Dazes against non-combo decks, and board out some removal spells and/or Goyfs against the combo decks. Obviously, it's not that black-and-white, but we all know the basics. Hopefully.

    Oh and hopefully everyone has at least two REB variants, two Submerge, and one Ancient Grudge - I feel like those are universal qualifications for any self-respecting Thresh pilot.
    I do think the ancient grudge is becoming a bit loose in recent times. I mainly say that because the two popular decks that we bring grudge in against (Esper stoneblade, UWR Delver), also bring in rest in peace. This halves grudge's value at which point any other artifact hate gains more value with whatever bonuses they bring to the table. Don't get me wrong I love having grudge and my opponent ending up with dead equipment, but lately I always get my hopes ruined by RIP. The other thing is and this may just be me, but UWR in particular seems to always sequence there plays so that they try to stick equipment then if a grudge hits they always have an RIP follow up.

  3. #243
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    That's fair. Okay, so two Submerge, two REB variant, and one Disenchant variant. Or at least Naturalize. The other ten slots are basically whatever you want.
    Pizza, beer, and Canadian Thresh.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  4. #244

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Exuberance View Post
    That's fair. Okay, so two Submerge, two REB variant, and one Disenchant variant. Or at least Naturalize. The other ten slots are basically whatever you want.
    I do think a singleton Rough and Vendilion Clique are fairly standard though. Clique is like one of the best sideboard cards for us to make our already awesome combo match up that much easier. Another thing I've heard is Clique is really good against miracles. Rough is just great against any Maverick, D&T or elves that you run across. As for a "cookie cutter" sideboard I would say something like this is a good set of guidelines:
    11/15
    2 submerge
    2 REB
    1 Vendilion Clique
    2 combo hate in addition to reb/Clique (probably at least one being flusterstorm, because it gets around counterbalance and is a house for combo match ups)
    2 artifact hate
    1 board sweeper type effect (rough, grim, firespout, etc)
    1 graveyard hate
    After that is where stuff tends to differ, but those are like the bare minimum to have something to fit all those requirements.
    Last edited by Contract Killer; 04-26-2014 at 10:29 PM.

  5. #245
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    My next tournament is the SCG Knoxville open - I think I might switch the fourth Goyf for a Clique, not play the (personally) untested Eight Bolt build and instead play some number of Probes, and maybe play one Grudge and one Krosan Grip or Destructive Revelry. Wish I knew what the Tennessee meta was.
    Pizza, beer, and Canadian Thresh.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  6. #246

    [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Knowing the metagame is crucial when building a rug-deck for a specific tournament.

    (During gp strassbourg 2013, i disussed rugdelver with my friend tomoharu saito,we finally thought that 7 bolts and no stifle(!) but 4 pierce and 3 snare would be great to fight the overload of team america/jund decks
    So he did and succeed,at least in the legacy champion shit (2th of 400,lost in the finaly against buddy carsten kötter from berlin)


    - Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

  7. #247

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Exuberance View Post
    My next tournament is the SCG Knoxville open - I think I might switch the fourth Goyf for a Clique, not play the (personally) untested Eight Bolt build and instead play some number of Probes, and maybe play one Grudge and one Krosan Grip or Destructive Revelry. Wish I knew what the Tennessee meta was.
    If it's any consolation I took an 8 bolt build to SCG Seattle and ended up going 5/1 with it before losing to Imperial Painter kicking me out of contention which is just a horrible match up to begin with. It was really good even against stuff like combo or miracles. Goose gets to threshold so much faster like having a turn against miracles or combo going "chain lightning, chain lightning, swing with goose 9 point turn go". You just force them to either have it or die. The other bonus is deathrite, SFM, bob, delver and any other creatures always die on sight now, but most importantly deathrite.

  8. #248

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Yep,i wouldn't leave home without 7-8 bolts


    - Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

  9. #249

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @Purgatory I've been reading the primer about match ups and one thing you should add to the Miracles portion is the interaction with miracle triggers and fetches. For example if they try to terminus with fetch and no white mana up and pass priority then let it resolve because at that point they can't fetch for white mana to actually cast it. It doesn't come up too often, but I've had it happen with a goose that got threshed quickly by bolts. This is also one of the few times that you might want to stifle a fetch since it may as well be stifling the miracle trigger anyways.

  10. #250

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey what do you guys think about searching around for some cards with something along the lines "creatures opponents control can't block" type of a thing? It gets around TNN and we might not even have to worry about goyfs bouncing off each other. Just a thought I found the thread that was started way back when TNN first came out (a little late to the party I know) and they were talking about how he played defense better than offense. Just a thought I doubt it will actually turn up anything relevant.

  11. #251
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Killer View Post
    Hey what do you guys think about searching around for some cards with something along the lines "creatures opponents control can't block" type of a thing? It gets around TNN and we might not even have to worry about goyfs bouncing off each other. Just a thought I found the thread that was started way back when TNN first came out (a little late to the party I know) and they were talking about how he played defense better than offense. Just a thought I doubt it will actually turn up anything relevant.
    I'm afraid that all the "creatures have trouble blocking" cards are pretty expensive. I guess none of them starts below three mana, but I'm not sure, as these are definitely lowest on my priority list. :)
    I'd say that instead of trying to walk around the TNN or Batterskull, it's better to just sidegrade into the eight Bolts and simply overwhelm the opponent before he may stabilize with his more powerful yet more expensive cards. A con: this may not work in an even meta, where there are enogh of the TNN/SFM and other decks; you don't want that many removal against say ANT. Otoh, this might be addressed via sideboard.
    I still think that there could be some way how to exploit the metagame's dependancy on ground forces, I mean, yeah, Delver is a thing, but other than that, all the dudes walk by the feet. But while tinkering with a Jace's Phantasm and/or Phyrexian Dreadnought with Vision Charm might be funny, namely considering how good is the latter card against those pesky "in your upkeep: Top -> Terminus" types of play, but frankly, this seems like a stillborn idea.
    Dreadnought alone has a potential to stomp over any number of TNNs they throw in fron of it, and it eats Skull like no one else; it also gives more uses to (excess) Stifle and makes combo matchup bit more faster. The inherent card dis-A is hurtful, Abrupt Decays all over the lgs also don't help this cause and honestly, it's not like the card is relevant anymore, and even if it would be, then andy XY-Still deck would be much better place for it.
    So much about bedlam.

  12. #252

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    I'm afraid that all the "creatures have trouble blocking" cards are pretty expensive. I guess none of them starts below three mana, but I'm not sure, as these are definitely lowest on my priority list. :)
    I'd say that instead of trying to walk around the TNN or Batterskull, it's better to just sidegrade into the eight Bolts and simply overwhelm the opponent before he may stabilize with his more powerful yet more expensive cards. A con: this may not work in an even meta, where there are enogh of the TNN/SFM and other decks; you don't want that many removal against say ANT. Otoh, this might be addressed via sideboard.
    I still think that there could be some way how to exploit the metagame's dependancy on ground forces, I mean, yeah, Delver is a thing, but other than that, all the dudes walk by the feet. But while tinkering with a Jace's Phantasm and/or Phyrexian Dreadnought with Vision Charm might be funny, namely considering how good is the latter card against those pesky "in your upkeep: Top -> Terminus" types of play, but frankly, this seems like a stillborn idea.
    Dreadnought alone has a potential to stomp over any number of TNNs they throw in fron of it, and it eats Skull like no one else; it also gives more uses to (excess) Stifle and makes combo matchup bit more faster. The inherent card dis-A is hurtful, Abrupt Decays all over the lgs also don't help this cause and honestly, it's not like the card is relevant anymore, and even if it would be, then andy XY-Still deck would be much better place for it.
    So much about bedlam.
    The Phyrexian Dreadnought idea just isn't good enough. I've tried it and you just feel so bad when you two for one yourself after they stp/abrupt decay it. Jace's Phantasm on the other hand actually looks somewhat good, but depends on the graveyard and is only relevant mid - late game. The other issue is it dies to the same things delver does except it dodges bolt. Bolt though isn't the issue it's abrupt decay.
    Now a few promising cards I did find were (in order by best to worst):
    Artful Dodge I personally really like the inherent card advantage here. It allows two goyfs to just alpha strike past batterskull or TNN which actually synergizes really well wit the 8 bolt plan. The sad part is one of goose's best features actually works against us here
    Goblin War Drums Unless an opponent has TNN and Batterskull or TNN and Tarmogoyf out I think this would be really good.
    Awe for the Guilds Outside of Baleful Strix and Shardless Agent I can't really think of many creatures an opponent would want to block with. I mean if an opponent is willing to block with a deathrite we're doing pretty good hahaha.
    Gorilla War Cry Let's be honest how many times do you see an opponent have two big creatures on the field? Not very often and the other nice part here is this cycles on their upkeep so that's a plus.
    Like you said "there could be some way how to exploit the metagame's dependancy on ground forces, I mean, yeah, Delver is a thing, but other than that, all the dudes walk by the feet", so why not try approaching it from that angle? I mean when you think about it assuming they don't have equipment or are winning the race against us (something unlikely) we don't really care about TNN. When I say that I mean we only care about it being a wall blocking/killing geese and/or goyf. If we cut the blocking part out of the TNN equation what else is there that we actually care about?

  13. #253

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Exuberance View Post
    Unless you copied someone's exact sideboard from here, I'd wager that none of us have the exact same fifteen. This makes me feel that a precise sideboarding guide (+x, -y) is basically pointless. Like, I know I should board in Sulfur Elemental against D&T, but I don't have one in my board because I don't actually expect that much D&T. My sideboard changes every tournament I go to, depending on what's doing well. A detailed plan is a good basis, but there may be cards in the example sideboard that some people refuse to play, for whatever reason.

    Certainly the general strategy is to board out some number of Forces and Dazes against non-combo decks, and board out some removal spells and/or Goyfs against the combo decks. Obviously, it's not that black-and-white, but we all know the basics. Hopefully.

    Oh and hopefully everyone has at least two REB variants, two Submerge, and one Ancient Grudge - I feel like those are universal qualifications for any self-respecting Thresh pilot.
    I don't think any card in Canadian Threshold's sideboard is sacred these days. When I t8'd SCG Detroit earlier this month I had 0 Submerge and 1 Pyroblast. I expected few green decks so I cut all the submerge's and played a dismember over the one I thought about playing b/c it was slightly more versatile. After playing Elves to get in t8 and then being paired with Maverick(WTF) in the quarters would I have loved 4 submerge Yes. But it was very hard to find room these days. Before that tournament I used to always have 3-4 Submerge but it felt like green decks have been on the decline. I would have Rough/Tumble be more necessary these days then submerge.

    The maindeck and sideboard with this deck though completely changes with metagames and how your opponents play. At Detroit Stifle underpowerformed while Spell Pierce and Spell Snare overperformed. If my opponents didn't always play around Stifle it would be good but at this point I am getting ready to cut at least 2 if not all 4 of them. My biggest mistake was not having True-Name Nemesis or more Vendillion clique's in my sideboard. Goose/Goyf look real silly trying to fight opposing TNN.

    The list I am likely to play at SCG Cincinnati this weekend is:

    4 delver
    4 goose
    4 goyf

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    2 spell snare
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    4 lighting bolt
    1 Chain Lighting
    3 spell pierce
    4 daze
    4 force of will
    2 Stifle(May become 1 TNN and 4th spell pierce/chain lightning.)
    18 lands(6 duals)

    SB
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Rough//Tumble
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    1 Sulfur Elemental(May become 2)
    2 V. Clique/TNN
    1 Grudge
    1 K. Grip

    Ben Wienburg
    Ben Wienburg

  14. #254

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by firstshot View Post
    I don't think any card in Canadian Threshold's sideboard is sacred these days. When I t8'd SCG Detroit earlier this month I had 0 Submerge and 1 Pyroblast. I expected few green decks so I cut all the submerge's and played a dismember over the one I thought about playing b/c it was slightly more versatile. After playing Elves to get in t8 and then being paired with Maverick(WTF) in the quarters would I have loved 4 submerge Yes. But it was very hard to find room these days. Before that tournament I used to always have 3-4 Submerge but it felt like green decks have been on the decline. I would have Rough/Tumble be more necessary these days then submerge.

    The maindeck and sideboard with this deck though completely changes with metagames and how your opponents play. At Detroit Stifle underpowerformed while Spell Pierce and Spell Snare overperformed. If my opponents didn't always play around Stifle it would be good but at this point I am getting ready to cut at least 2 if not all 4 of them. My biggest mistake was not having True-Name Nemesis or more Vendillion clique's in my sideboard. Goose/Goyf look real silly trying to fight opposing TNN.

    The list I am likely to play at SCG Cincinnati this weekend is:

    4 delver
    4 goose
    4 goyf

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    2 spell snare
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    4 lighting bolt
    1 Chain Lighting
    3 spell pierce
    4 daze
    4 force of will
    2 Stifle(May become 1 TNN and 4th spell pierce/chain lightning.)
    18 lands(6 duals)

    SB
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Rough//Tumble
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    1 Sulfur Elemental(May become 2)
    2 V. Clique/TNN
    1 Grudge
    1 K. Grip

    Ben Wienburg
    hi ben, congrats to your t8. my 2 cents:

    I'd always expect green.decs these days, deahrite is still active and bug is played the most right now - relatively.
    I see your point in running more cliques / tnns for opposing tnns but - wouldn't raising pyroblasts / rebs help in the same way? 1 pyro is really low count imo. but if it works for ya :)

    atm my sb is the most radical: 4 submerge, 4 reb, 2 rough, 2 flusterstorm, 1 or 2 graf, 1 or 2 grudge effects, depends on ...

    i actually run 4 chain and 2 pierce in my flex spots, so yeah the 8 bolt plan. snare is too narrow imo... mostly because my meta is heavy made of creatures - ok i may snare that one stoneforge, tarmo, snap or whatever, but ... i may also bolt them in the ass, which is more fun to me ;)

    greetings, halo

  15. #255

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by firstshot View Post
    I don't think any card in Canadian Threshold's sideboard is sacred these days. When I t8'd SCG Detroit earlier this month I had 0 Submerge and 1 Pyroblast. I expected few green decks so I cut all the submerge's and played a dismember over the one I thought about playing b/c it was slightly more versatile. After playing Elves to get in t8 and then being paired with Maverick(WTF) in the quarters would I have loved 4 submerge Yes. But it was very hard to find room these days. Before that tournament I used to always have 3-4 Submerge but it felt like green decks have been on the decline. I would have Rough/Tumble be more necessary these days then submerge.

    The maindeck and sideboard with this deck though completely changes with metagames and how your opponents play. At Detroit Stifle underpowerformed while Spell Pierce and Spell Snare overperformed. If my opponents didn't always play around Stifle it would be good but at this point I am getting ready to cut at least 2 if not all 4 of them. My biggest mistake was not having True-Name Nemesis or more Vendillion clique's in my sideboard. Goose/Goyf look real silly trying to fight opposing TNN.
    Cool of you to jump in here and give us your perspective, hard to believe you ran into the one maverick player remaining in the US. As far as sideboard goes, no graveyard hate? (Grafdigger's, Surgical, etc) Hope to dodge these or do you just feel confidant of your gameplan against them? Also with Lavamancer SB, you take out two Mongoose to support those? Might be a dumb question but I've just recently started playing the deck and love getting the perspective/advice of people who have actual tourney experience playing the deck.

    Also, what do you think of the 8-bolt lists running around? My own experience is similar to yours, with Pierce/Snare really overperforming, so I'd hate to be cutting those. I do really like the flexibility Stifle gives us as well (you can really attack some strategies from cool angles with the card, not to mention stifling fetches, etc), so I'm hesitant to cut those MB to support the extra bolts. I've been running 2 Forked Bolt to fill out the flex spots, it's been amazing in the matchups where you need it and an easy cut in those you don't to free up some slots for SB cards. Thanks!

  16. #256

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by firstshot View Post
    I don't think any card in Canadian Threshold's sideboard is sacred these days. When I t8'd SCG Detroit earlier this month I had 0 Submerge and 1 Pyroblast. I expected few green decks so I cut all the submerge's and played a dismember over the one I thought about playing b/c it was slightly more versatile. After playing Elves to get in t8 and then being paired with Maverick(WTF) in the quarters would I have loved 4 submerge Yes. But it was very hard to find room these days. Before that tournament I used to always have 3-4 Submerge but it felt like green decks have been on the decline. I would have Rough/Tumble be more necessary these days then submerge.

    The maindeck and sideboard with this deck though completely changes with metagames and how your opponents play. At Detroit Stifle underpowerformed while Spell Pierce and Spell Snare overperformed. If my opponents didn't always play around Stifle it would be good but at this point I am getting ready to cut at least 2 if not all 4 of them. My biggest mistake was not having True-Name Nemesis or more Vendillion clique's in my sideboard. Goose/Goyf look real silly trying to fight opposing TNN.

    The list I am likely to play at SCG Cincinnati this weekend is:

    4 delver
    4 goose
    4 goyf

    4 ponder
    4 brainstorm
    2 spell snare
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    4 lighting bolt
    1 Chain Lighting
    3 spell pierce
    4 daze
    4 force of will
    2 Stifle(May become 1 TNN and 4th spell pierce/chain lightning.)
    18 lands(6 duals)

    SB
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Rough//Tumble
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    1 Pyroblast
    2 Submerge
    1 Sulfur Elemental(May become 2)
    2 V. Clique/TNN
    1 Grudge
    1 K. Grip

    Ben Wienburg
    Though is stifle even reasonable to cut with miracles being on the rise lately? I mean sure stifle can be dead, but that's the ting about RUG you never know what will be a dead card against certain opponents. I know that sounds oxymoronic, but it's the truth. Every opponent you play will play around different cards based on their hand and the situation. If they think you have spell pierce they'll wait to play out Liliana until turn 4 (assuming the have deathrite). If the opponent takes that line and plays Goyf in the mean time at 3 mana also playing around daze they get ruined by spell snare. Even if you don't have snare here and they go for turn 4 Liliana with edict effect that gets ruined by stifle. Another thing that I would like to point out while stifle can lack luster sometimes if you can't beat an opponent with Plan A deny mana counter bolt etc then do you really think Plan B will be better? Then again stifleless RUG did take first at Detroit so maybe we should look at cutting them, but they're just so good against miracles.

  17. #257
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Something I've though about yesterday when we looked for a weapon against TNN:

    and

    I know that Mind Bend type of spells suck, but there are some interesting applications. First, Sulfur Elemental may act like a sweeper against another colors, imagine playing the dude eot, than on your turn you bend him to green killing the elves, bend him to red wiping away the goblin tokens and turning himself to 4/1 monster, bend him to blue and get rid TNN while turning your Delver into a 4/1 flyer. For that matter, Whim of Volrath has buyback.
    Moreover, Alter Reality can be used to protect your own Delvers/BS from Pyroblasts and Mind Bend is a funny answer to Choke.

    I know that the idea is silly, but it's still better than Goblin War Drums, which simply cannot be played in a deck with 14 real lands, three of them being green.

    Btw, I still think that the best way to fight TNN is bolting DRS asap, StifleWaste without mercy, then Blast the Nemesis on stack and if all else fails, then there are those additional Lightnings to end the game before TNN becomes a factor. Of all the "can't block" tricks that come to mind, I'd rather use some one-shot effect, because it'll be cheaper, won't remain in play to make our own (potentially important) blocking impossible, and (as a minor pro) it feeds gy for Mongoose. But it still seems like a pretty irrelevant card most of the time, so the first one to top8s a major tourney with a pair of Gorilla War Cry in his sideboard, will be endowed with a bottle of something old and strong, I swear.
    The less obvious tricks with a similar effect are Berserk, which may work like a removal under certain circumstances, while Rancor improves both Delver and Goyf. It doesn't seem that awful, but the mere fact that it can't target Mongoose, is a potential for a 2-for-1 trade and generally sucks, sends it into forgotten realms.
    Last edited by Bed Decks Palyer; 04-29-2014 at 07:16 AM.

  18. #258

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    How is everyone boarding against miracles?

  19. #259

    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm still on the project "Goyfless Rug"
    In my opinion tarmogoyfs time is over now since the last couple of months.

    Together with my team we are pondering different builds,one has beem posted a few pages back here in the thread.
    We just want to have the ultimate Rug Delver List for
    Bazaar of Moxen this weekend


    - Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

  20. #260
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    Re: [DTB] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by trollking21 View Post
    How is everyone boarding against miracles?
    I can't tell how's everyone boarding, but my plan with 54Thresh_2/2/2_FB/SS/SP.dec is this:

    I want to not let the Terminus resolve. And I don't want CB resolve either. I'm not fond of Top as it tremendously helps them, and RiP also isn't thing I want to play against. I don't really care of JTMS and EtA, it simply doesn't matter what it theri wincon, if I was bad palyer and/or unlucky dude to let it resolve.
    I don't want to save my creatures, it's a waste of resources and I won't win the attrition war. I don't wanna look at useless cards, too. Thus some number of Goyfs should rest in peace post-board. There's hardly anything I can do with a Bolt, other than kill the Clique, yet there's that trouble with bolting the Clique that there might be CB that stops the bolt from resolving.
    I can't do anything about Moon. But it's not exactly usual card, and it also isn't the prime strategy against Thresh, so w/e, if it resolves, so be it.
    My plan is to land a creature (two at the very most), flip the Delver asap and deal some dmg before they get rid of it. By this time Mongoose should reach thresh and should have Snare/Stifle for the RiP. That's when they'll try to terminate my board, and hopefully I'll have another counter or Stifle. If they'll got rid of my creatures, I need to reolve another one and try to ride it towards the win. Mongoose is definitely the best one, as it's extremely hard to kill, they got sevral card for it, Termini and Cliques, one is suspectible to counterspells, the other dies to REB.

    So, my boarding is like this:
    +2 Needle against SDT to cripple their filtering and insta-WoG power. (Hon. mention: maybe name Strand if all else fails.)
    +2 Flusterstorm against early Termini and StP.
    +2 REB against... well, their deck?
    +1 Elemental as another creature; one that's independent of gy, hard to counter, famous Jace slayer
    -2 Forked Bolts, they do nothing
    -4 Lightnng Bolts; I'd love to keep them, but I don't see what else should I take out. One Goyf, maybe?
    -1 Wasteland as it does nothing else then feed us with counter-Pierce mana.

    Arguments may be raised that esp. otd one may shove Dazes.
    Pros of not having Daze: you may keep the Bolts in to have extra grilling power to end the game sooner or to get rid of Clique. Also, Daze is not that good against a deck full of basics that will simply drop, drop, drop lands until Daze becomes completely useless. And, lategame Bolt is better than lategame Daze like 85 % of time.
    Cons of not having Daze: it's obvious, isn't it? Daze may act like hardcounter in opening stages, which is extremely necessary when you need to save the creatures for one more turn to deal those last few points of dmg. It keeps them of playing turn2 CB, it helps force through critical spells and of course, if they play conservativley and sit on fetches, you may trick them into Stifle. Moreover Daze might feed FoW and this might be crucial when they need to resolve their necessary stuff be it CB or Termini. Also, Daze is super-duper in conjunction with Flusterstorm, just play it first, ok? :)

    Other small notes:
    As I wrote, I simply don't care of their wincons, meaning "it doesn't matter how exactly they win" not "I look aside when they cast their bomb". If the game went so far as to resolved EtA, it's lost (unless you have a Bolt up your sleeve or overwhelming board pressence, but the latter means you Surgicaled their Termini or wot?), and there's very little you may do about it. The only exception is Jace which needs to be dealt with asap, under certain circumstances you might/need to wait one more turn (like if they tap out for him, BS and you got a Needle, Needle hand, or kept the Sulemental just fro this situation, etc.), but mostly simply Pierce/REB him without delay.

    Somehow one may argue that Termini is their another wincon as it stops us dead, prolongs the game, etc., all in their favor. So basically in postboard gamesI'm trying to catch:
    - SDT. That's what Daze might be good for when otp, you don't wanna Force the pot, but you need to do something about it. Mostly I rely on my cantrips to give me Needle, but Pierce ain't bad too.
    - Terminus. We got several spells for it and never forget that you may BS in resp., find the Flusterstorm and play, thus forcing them to have more open
    - CB. Fortunately there's nothing less than REB, Pierce, Snare and FoW you got here (you cannot reasonably expect them to run into Daze), but I guess you see the cheap power of those four.
    - Jace. This one helps them tremendously, luckily it's the most expensive spell they got, and it folds to REB, Pierce, Needle and Sulele, so I'm not too afraid of him.
    - Clique, as it's pretty much one third of their anti-Mongoose removal, moreover one that can kill Delver and Karakas-lock us. Again, this dies to REB, might be bolted if you keep some and is too expensive for Daze
    - Blood Moon. There's not much we can do about it except for FoW which hurts or Pierce, yet they'll be playing Moon in mid-late game, and that's where Pierce does little.
    - Rest in Peace. Very annoying card, and one that might be a part of their winning combo. Makes Goyfs completely dead cards (kinda reason to shove at least one), otoh, it does nothing against Delver (our main attacker in early turns) and while it cripples Mongoose, it still bites, though slowly. You got Pierce, Snare, Stifle (but yeah, they may play it soon enough to make the Mongoose 1/1) and FoW, of course. With Stifle (and untouched Goyf) you may still end the game pretty fast, esp. if you've been lucky to Pierce SDT and Blast Jace.

    That's my plan, I hope I'm not missing anything. So far I'm... well, I don't even know, as I don't make any statistics, moreover I don't play against UW that often. I won some, I lost some.



    edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by sawatarix View Post
    I'm still on the project "Goyfless Rug"
    In my opinion tarmogoyfs time is over now since the last couple of months.

    Together with my team we are pondering different builds,one has beem posted a few pages back here in the thread.
    We just want to have the ultimate Rug Delver List for
    Bazaar of Moxen this weekend


    - Team RUG-STAR Berlin -
    Then I'm looking orward to the BoM report!

    Goyf is still good. It's reliable beater and it deals fast damage. Yep, the Goyfs-stares are annoying, and the fact that it!s a two-drop makes the card far more clunky that we wanted to, but it's still good. Imho if you're going to play Goyfless RUG (I don't even know what exactly is that, I guess a 2/2 TNN/VCq split), then you may just as well play straight UR with all of its positives, be it better manabase, save PoP, etc.

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