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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #2781

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Anyone trying the new horizon lands? I replaced one volc with the UR one, also running one wren and six in the main, otherwise pretty stock. the horizon lands hurt daze but help against choke, saved me in a game. and getting to recycle it with WnS was good to in the grindy matches.

  2. #2782
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Just out of curiosity; why is no one talking about Crashing Footfalls?

    For those who don't know:

    Sorcery
    Suspend 4 - G
    Put 2 4/4 Green Trampling rhino tokens into play.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I've thought about it. It costs 1, flips delver and is a win con in itself. It only starts attacking on turn 6 though, if you played it turn 1. It's probably bad.

  4. #2784
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Right, but I've been running RUG with the standard creature suit for awhile now and I've had many games where either I had a great disruption hand with no creatures, or 1 goose with no threshold, or a modest disruption hand with a couple creatures that get delt with. I'm thinking RUG wants the game to get to turn 8 and 9 which if you suspend Crashing Footfalls turn 2 or 3 you get a solid bomb after you've wastlanded, stifled, and dazed your opponent down. It seems like this could be back breaking with a fairly empty board. It also goes bigger and tramples over TNN.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Colonel View Post
    Right, but I've been running RUG with the standard creature suit for awhile now and I've had many games where either I had a great disruption hand with no creatures, or 1 goose with no threshold, or a modest disruption hand with a couple creatures that get delt with. I'm thinking RUG wants the game to get to turn 8 and 9 which if you suspend Crashing Footfalls turn 2 or 3 you get a solid bomb after you've wastlanded, stifled, and dazed your opponent down. It seems like this could be back breaking with a fairly empty board. It also goes bigger and tramples over TNN.
    Yeah.
    And sometimes you would draw it T4, 5 or 6...

    Test will prevail but my feeling is "not good enough".

  6. #2786

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I was quite enthusiastic about the possibility of the Rhino card
    - If you suspend it, it goldfishes as fast as a Delver that flips immediately
    - You get 2 bodies for 1 card which is good vs spot removal like strix and plow
    - Is a sorcery so it flips your delver
    - Costs only 1 (unlike e.g. Goyf or TNN) but doesn't get countered by chalice on 1

    Of course topdecking it late in the game it is potentially much worse

    I think one thing that has made me less enthusiastic about this card over the course of the MH spoiler season and the short period after its release was the immediate adoption and impact of Wrenn and Six. There have been a few people having quite a lot of success online with lists like this:

    18 Lands (standard manabase)
    4 Delver
    4 Goose
    2 Tarmo
    2 TNN

    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force
    4 Daze
    4 Bolt
    2 Wrenn and Six
    2 Pierce

    One player was on 3 Stifle, 2 Snare, 1 Chain Lightning
    another was 4 Stifle, 1 Snare, 1 Forked Bolt

    In this kind of list I think that having the immediate creature of Tarmo or TNN (rather than one with suspend) is a significant upgrade because you can deploy it onto the battlefield ASAP to protect your Wrenn and Six.
    The fact that W6 provides card advantage in the form of extra lands also helps you to cast the more expensive threats (potentially with open mana behind) so the cheap 1 mana of Crashing Footfalls is a less-relevant upside, and the 2-body factor is also less important when one of the replacement threats is TNN which dodges spotremoval anyway.

  7. #2787

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Just starting to test with the deck, we have a 1k coming up this coming Saturday I plan on playing with Canadian Threshold. My build is fairly stock with one Wren and Six and a UR horizon land in the main. I managed a 2-0 in testing versus Miracles today between draft rounds. I'll try the rhino card and see how it pans out.

  8. #2788
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 Wrenn and Six

    4 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle

    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    1 Ghost Quarter
    4 Wasteland

    2 Chain Lightning
    4 Ponder

    //Sideboard
    4 Winter Orb
    2 Cindervines
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Force of Negation
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Surgical Extraction
    Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com

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  9. #2789

    [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander View Post
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 Wrenn and Six

    4 Brainstorm
    1 Counterspell
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Stifle

    4 Flooded Strand
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    1 Ghost Quarter
    4 Wasteland

    2 Chain Lightning
    4 Ponder

    //Sideboard
    4 Winter Orb
    2 Cindervines
    1 Ancient Grudge
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Force of Negation
    3 Pyroblast
    1 Surgical Extraction
    How has this been testing? 8 threats sound crazy but you’re the master of threat-light delver. 4 winter orb sound crazy as well, but it is indeed a very powerful card. You wouldnt swap one for null rod as it also chokes artifact mana and vials? My biggest issue is only own 2 BB old art Orbs.

  10. #2790
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'd be putting the Cindervines main over Cspell and Stifle #4. This deck's worst matchups [particularly mainboard] have always been Vial, Hymn/SCM/Kcomm/Strix, CB, Chalice, and ANT. Cindervines helps vs all these things.

  11. #2791

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I have been playing test games all weekend, mostly into Death and Taxes, Turbo Depths, Miracles, Grixis Control and UR Delver. I met up with Dan Miller, one of the best Legacy players I know, and he helped me out with some finer tuning and testing. Lots of Modern Horizon stuff going into testing, we have a local 1K going on this coming saturday that ill be playing this in.

    Land (19)

    1x Fiery Islet
    3x Flooded Strand
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Island
    3x Misty Rainforest
    1x Polluted Delta
    2x Tropical Island
    2x Volcanic Island
    4x Wasteland
    1x Waterlogged Grove

    Creature (10)

    4x Delver of Secrets Flip
    4x Nimble Mongoose
    2x Pteramander

    Instant (23)

    4x Brainstorm
    3x Daze
    2x Force of Negation
    4x Force of Will
    4x Lightning Bolt
    1x Spell Pierce
    4x Stifle
    1x Vapor Snag

    Sorcery (6)

    1x Crashing Footfalls
    1x Forked Bolt
    4x Ponder

    Planeswalker (2)

    2x Wrenn and Six

    Sideboard (15)

    1x Ancient Grudge
    2x Cindervines
    1x Echoing Truth
    1x Flusterstorm
    1x Ghost Quarter
    1x Life from the Loam
    2x Pyroblast
    1x Rough
    3x Surgical Extraction
    1x Sylvan Library
    1x Winter Orb

    Crashing Footfalls can and will most likely be a third Wrenn and Six, as it was the least amusing addition to the deck. I have really been enjoying Wrenn and Six, especially in combination with Ghost Quarter and the new Horizon Lands, netting me a great deal of card draw to help close out games. The sideboard is more local meta oriented but I like it regardless. I have a short work week this week so Ill be grinding more games in preparation for Saturday.

  12. #2792
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I jammed some leagues over the weekend with a list around here:

    4 Wasteland
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    3 True-Name Nemesis

    3 Wren and Six

    4 Lightning Bolt
    1 Dismember

    3 Stifle
    3 Spell Pierce
    1 Spell Snare
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will

    Wren and Six is definitely quite good. It certainly has a much larger impact on the board compared to most other two drops. With regard to some of the above posted lists that aren't running True-Name Nemesis, that doesn't seem correct to me. The ability to cast True-Name Nemesis off extra lands from Wren and Six is part of what make the new planeswalker great, IMO. I don't know what hoops I want to jump through to run lands in the maindeck that draw cards; the traditional 18 land manabase is a major strength of this deck. Lonely Sandbar in the sideboard seems like it could be sweet though. Otherwise I'm not really sure what I want in the sideboard, Legacy seems pretty wide open right now.
    Shameless plug for my legacy MODO recordings. It's mostly tempo.

  13. #2793
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Well I played some more leagues over the pass couple days. I cut a spell snare from the main for another spell pierce and basically ran this sideboard:

    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Abrade
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Blazing Volley
    2 Lonely Sandbar

    Lonely Sandbar was a great success when I could board it in. In one game I was playing against Enchantress. I countered some early Enchantress spells but eventually he resolved an Enchantress's Presence. Fortunately, I had assembled the Wren and Six and Lonely Sandbar combination. Thanks to the extra card advantage, I managed to hang on by Forcing some spells and Stifling draw triggers until I could ultimate Wren and Six. From there, I retraced Force of Will like 10 times on his key spells to win the game. RUG isn't really supposed to have good sources of card advantage, I definitely think Lonely Sandbar is sweet sideboard option for grindy match ups.

    What I'm seeing though is that the league metagame is evolving such that it is dominated by Delver decks. Mainly UR Delver, followed by Canadian Threshold and then Grixis Delver. UR Delver definitely has some major upside in playing basic lands and Dreadhorde Arcanist can obviously run away with the game on an empty board, which none of our threats really do. Besides Delver decks, there is a pretty good Death and Taxes presence. I feel like Maverick used to be the Mother of Runes deck before Modern Horizons but the Aether Vials, Sanctum Prelates and now Phyrexian Revoker on Wren and Six are strong in this Delver heavy metagame.

    I think Canadian Threshold is pretty 50/50 against UR Delver and Death and Taxes but is pretty effective against the remainder of the meta. So the key is going to be to figure out a way to optimize our match ups against those two decks. Spell Snare seems very good with all kinds of powerful 2 drops in the meta. Not sure what else can be done to improve those match-ups, my sideboard definitely still stinks though and I'm probably going to have to settle for a bunch of 1-of's.
    Shameless plug for my legacy MODO recordings. It's mostly tempo.

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    Well I played some more leagues over the pass couple days. I cut a spell snare from the main for another spell pierce and basically ran this sideboard:

    3 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Abrade
    2 Spell Snare
    2 Blazing Volley
    2 Lonely Sandbar

    Lonely Sandbar was a great success when I could board it in. In one game I was playing against Enchantress. I countered some early Enchantress spells but eventually he resolved an Enchantress's Presence. Fortunately, I had assembled the Wren and Six and Lonely Sandbar combination. Thanks to the extra card advantage, I managed to hang on by Forcing some spells and Stifling draw triggers until I could ultimate Wren and Six. From there, I retraced Force of Will like 10 times on his key spells to win the game. RUG isn't really supposed to have good sources of card advantage, I definitely think Lonely Sandbar is sweet sideboard option for grindy match ups.

    What I'm seeing though is that the league metagame is evolving such that it is dominated by Delver decks. Mainly UR Delver, followed by Canadian Threshold and then Grixis Delver. UR Delver definitely has some major upside in playing basic lands and Dreadhorde Arcanist can obviously run away with the game on an empty board, which none of our threats really do. Besides Delver decks, there is a pretty good Death and Taxes presence. I feel like Maverick used to be the Mother of Runes deck before Modern Horizons but the Aether Vials, Sanctum Prelates and now Phyrexian Revoker on Wren and Six are strong in this Delver heavy metagame.

    I think Canadian Threshold is pretty 50/50 against UR Delver and Death and Taxes but is pretty effective against the remainder of the meta. So the key is going to be to figure out a way to optimize our match ups against those two decks. Spell Snare seems very good with all kinds of powerful 2 drops in the meta. Not sure what else can be done to improve those match-ups, my sideboard definitely still stinks though and I'm probably going to have to settle for a bunch of 1-of's.
    You should try to play the following creature lists:

    4 Hexdrinker
    4 Delver
    4 Tarmo

    With 2 or 3 Wren in your 60.

  15. #2795
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    You should try to play the following creature lists:

    4 Hexdrinker
    4 Delver
    4 Tarmo

    With 2 or 3 Wren in your 60.
    Is Hexdrinker really that much better than Mongoose? 1 mana is vastly less to pay for Shroud than 4, even if you can break it up over a couple turns. I mean, you do eventually get a 4/4, but you open yourself to also possibly to get blown out, spending 3 mana into a removal spell.
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Is Hexdrinker really that much better than Mongoose? 1 mana is vastly less to pay for Shroud than 4, even if you can break it up over a couple turns. I mean, you do eventually get a 4/4, but you open yourself to also possibly to get blown out, spending 3 mana into a removal spell.
    You do.
    It requires to spend only 1 mana/turn and leave 1 mana opened in the beginning but when you get Wren recurring fetchlands it is very nice.

    In the mid and endgame if your opponent is hellbent. It is superior to goose.

    Not to mention that spot ritual removals are very rare in legacy so that once 4/4, you have a lot of odds to turn him mini progenitus.

    Finally 2/1 is better to pressure combo decks than a 1/1 without saying that 75 % of the time it will be a 4/4 before mongoose is a 3/3.

    Just saying...

    Test will always prevail but we might be impressed.
    And with a 3 pierce config, it might be a real contender

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by BKclassic View Post
    I think Canadian Threshold is pretty 50/50 against UR Delver and Death and Taxes but is pretty effective against the remainder of the meta. So the key is going to be to figure out a way to optimize our match ups against those two decks. Spell Snare seems very good with all kinds of powerful 2 drops in the meta. Not sure what else can be done to improve those match-ups, my sideboard definitely still stinks though and I'm probably going to have to settle for a bunch of 1-of's.
    UR can be difficult if it resolves tnn or pyro and create an army. That is their strength. If you want to increase chances to win, then you must run goyfs. UR simply have only bounce as answers and tnn, that is all. Also goyf is all star for a long time in mirror matches. People tests various things, but goyf remains best choice here.

    DNT indeed is very hard to beat, but it can be beaten with strong sideboard. They need vial and equipment things to win. Other strongest card is prelate. So in this math up we need to focus on this 2 things. I found very helpful null rod and izzet staticaster. It is impotent to know that no other mass removal is as good as staticaster. What is so incredible about it? It can appear in eot and do some serious work. It can beat mom on its own. It can provide trades 2 for 0 or even better. Even if they have plow on it, they trades 2 to 1. The card is good also in elves and maverick math ups. When i saw meta full of decks of that kind i run 2 staticasters to max effect.

  18. #2798
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    You do.
    It requires to spend only 1 mana/turn and leave 1 mana opened in the beginning but when you get Wren recurring fetchlands it is very nice.

    In the mid and endgame if your opponent is hellbent. It is superior to goose.

    Not to mention that spot ritual removals are very rare in legacy so that once 4/4, you have a lot of odds to turn him mini progenitus.

    Finally 2/1 is better to pressure combo decks than a 1/1 without saying that 75 % of the time it will be a 4/4 before mongoose is a 3/3.

    Just saying...

    Test will always prevail but we might be impressed.
    And with a 3 pierce config, it might be a real contender
    Those are some fair points. As you say, testing will be needed. However, what you point out, about late game and opponents hand being possibly empty, makes me wonder if Hexdrinker would be better in the old tap-out Hymn/Liliana BUG Delver decks we used to run, rather than here, where you are looking to keep mana up for Stifle and the like.
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  19. #2799
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Those are some fair points. As you say, testing will be needed. However, what you point out, about late game and opponents hand being possibly empty, makes me wonder if Hexdrinker would be better in the old tap-out Hymn/Liliana BUG Delver decks we used to run, rather than here, where you are looking to keep mana up for Stifle and the like.
    This is a possibility as it may better shine in a BUG shell than a RUG one but the initial idea was to get some synergy with Wren.

    Wren does allow us to operate on more than 2/3 lands as most of the time we'll be recurring fetchlands/wasteland:
    1) If you are recurring wasteland you should already be in a winning position.
    2) If you are recurring fetchlands, you are "thinning" a bit your library while being in a position where you could cast more expensive spells (possibly FOWs or creatures). Some will prefer playing TNNs (which was an obvious choice) and some may try to test something else (Hexdrinker was only a suggestion).
    3) Or you are stacking lands in hand to make more value with your BS ...

    Goose doesn't synergize well with Wren, IMHO.

    As far as testing goes (on my side), the snake is really "nice" but I still miss data to draw any meaningful conclusion.

    Ralf

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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    People also said Goyf didn’t synergize with DRS. The #1 card holding Goose down was Strix, Wa6 is able to solve this problem multiple times over on a single card which also generates value into what is likely a game-winning emblem.

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