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Thread: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Yesterday I played RUG in our lgs. Fifteen players, four rounds, list as follows:

    //Qty Name
    // Lands
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Wasteland
    3 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    //\\
    // Creatures
    4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf
    //\\
    // Spells
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Forked Bolt
    //\\
    // Sideboard
    2 Rough/Tumble
    3 Submerge
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Artifact Mutation
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Sulfur Elemental


    I thought I won't come, esp. as I lacked one Volcanic Island that I sold. But then I came home and the Volcanics were waiting for me in my mailbox, so I phoned Slosh and we agreed to meet.

    R1, Matěj, bUrg
    Quite not a dude that I really like.
    g1, otp, keep7: I bolted his DRS, but he got three Delvers which my one and only couldn't neither race nor stop.
    sb: Pyroblasts, Subemrges, Rough (he plays both DRS and Bob), out some mix of week cards. I kept SPierce, though, expectingStifle... and I was wrong.
    g2, otp, keep7: I started with fetch, his turn 1 Devler I Blasted after I Wasted his land. I bolted Grim, then I ran Mongoose into Daze. TNN was Pyroed, then two Mongooses won this for me.
    sb: Some Daze/FoW switches.
    g3, otd, keep7: I FBed DRS, then I was hit by Thoughtseize. I misplayed Ponder, which led me to play DElver instead of keeping Stifle mana open. Wti this misplay, he got of the mana lock and overran me with Bob's CA.
    Loss, 0:1.


    R2, cool dude, Patriot
    g1, otd, keep6:I FBed SFM that found Jitte which I Pierced later. Delver flipped of another FB, then my Goyf was FoWed. On my opponents eight life I had Bolt, Bolt, FB, so I won.
    sb: in Ancient Artifact Mutation, Pyroblasts, out some mix of Dazes and crap.
    g2, otd, keep6: I Wasted two Tundras, but then I was stuck on one Trop. I saved one via Stifle+Daze trick when he tried to Waste it. Wit hs till no Volc out I got hit by RiP, but my two Mongooses got there. although one of them exchanged for a Delver. My opponent ended this game with three Bolts and two Swords in hand... aye, I like Mongooses.
    Win, 1:1.


    R3, Slosh, ANT
    This was one of the most unlucky match ever: g1 (otd, keep7) I lost after I played a Delver and got Slosh down to five when he PiFed me out of game. I SBed some anticombo tools plus Roughs, but during our g2, Slosh made 8 gobbos on is nine life to buy some time and then on his four life he ToA me for twenty with a Bolt-support. Nice one.
    Thankfully he was in a hurry, so he conceded to me... (Win, 2:1.)

    ...but did not leave before we played several games on unlimited mana minimaster with the two Theros boosters he won on last Sat.
    My pool was Horizon and Spellheart Chimera amongst the others, with a rare being Hundered-Handed One. The games were fast and funny, the unlimited mana makes for some pretty absurd situation with monstrous creatures. Slosh got some 10/7 dude (or something like that), and many more 4/5s and 6/3s and similar many/much dudes were running amokon both sides of table. Hundred-Handed One gave lots and lots of high fives, but I still lost the minimaster minimatch.


    R4, Tom, UW Miracles.
    When we rode from the lgs later that night, we talked about this mu. "It's pretty bad matchup, isn't it?" asked a friend of mine. "Yes, it is," I agreed. "For which player?" asked a second friend. "For both of them," was my answer.
    g1, otd, keep7: I remember an amazing battle over Stifle, but that's about it. I Dazed a CB, too, and then I simply tapped Mongoose and Goyf and other Goyf until the game was over.
    sb: anticontrol tools in, burn out.
    g2,otd, keep7: Although Tom mulled to five, he still offered quite some resistance. Fortunately I was able to stop Terminus, so my sole Devler got there.


    For my efforts I won some 15 bucks of store credit. (I think I was fourth or third.)

    MVP: Forked Bolt and Mongoose. Also, Stifle rocks.

  2. #42

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    This is an idea I had a few months ago but never pursued. Curious what the thread might think of this:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Trickbind
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Ponder

    8 Fetch
    6 Dual
    4 Waste

    Essentially, -4 Tarmogoyf, -4 Flex spot, +4 Dreadnought, +4 Trickbind.

    Pros for running Goyf:

    +Varies CMC slightly in case of active Counterbalance
    +Consistent beater: you pay 2 mana, you get a 4/5. Done.
    +1:1 in case it is destroyed; ie, minimal card investment

    Cons for running Goyf:

    -Folds to RiP
    -Spell Snare target (marginal, but applicable)
    -Occasionally creates locked board states; ie, goyf vs. goyf, goyf vs. batterskull, goyf vs. TNN

    Pros for running Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    +Double the Stifle effect
    +2-turn clock in a deck that hinges on taking advantage of early game tempo plays; Helps close out the game before the mid-late game is achieved.
    +Tramples over TNN; Negates opposing Batterskulls.
    +RiP proof creature, additional answers to RiP and the like in Trickbind.
    +Additional answers to Terminus

    Cons for Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    -Potentially 2:1 card disadvantage if Dreadnought is destroyed
    -Redundant Stifle effects when Stifle effects are dead.
    -Potentially cluttered hands

    There are more pros and cons for each, but I figured this is enough to get the ball rolling.

    Other variations could be: 2 Dreadnought, 2 Tarmogoyf; 3 Dreadnought, 1 Island; 1 Dreadnought, 3 Tarmogoyf...

    And why this variation of Canadian as opposed to going full Stiflenought? Probably Nimble Mongoose.
    Last edited by carefulmug; 03-28-2014 at 09:55 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by carefulmug View Post
    This is an idea I had a few months ago but never pursued. Curious what the thread might think of this:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Trickbind
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Ponder

    8 Fetch
    6 Dual
    4 Waste
    -2 Trickbind +2 anything else I think? Four Trickbind seems like way too many.

    But I actually like it. Maybe even cut a Dreadnaught too for something.
    Pizza, beer, and Canadian Thresh.
    Quote Originally Posted by TsumiBand View Post
    It also paves the way for one of my favorite tautologous Magic cards -- Cavalry Master! "Other creatures you control with flanking have flanking." OF COURSE THEY DO

  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    In playing w/ the four Dreadnought, the four additional stifle effects are necessary simply because of our aggressive usage of Stifle as dictated by our game plan. With that in mind, I was thinking:

    2 Dreadnought, 2 Tarmogoyf, 2 Trickbind, 2 Gitaxian Probe.

    Or, 1 Dreadnought, 3 Tarmogoyf.

    The G. Probe could be whatever assortment of flex spot cards we typically like, but I believe G.Probe is be best suited for this configuration since it helps get us to three land in the instance that we have Dreadnought + Trickbind in hand, and/or, it allows us to see the opponent's hand so we don't run a Dreadnought into removal.

    With all of these, particularly the 3 Tarmogoyf configuration, additional Goyfs can reside in SB in case of Goblins and the like.

  5. #45

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by carefulmug View Post
    This is an idea I had a few months ago but never pursued. Curious what the thread might think of this:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Trickbind
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Ponder

    8 Fetch
    6 Dual
    4 Waste

    Essentially, -4 Tarmogoyf, -4 Flex spot, +4 Dreadnought, +4 Trickbind.

    Pros for running Goyf:

    +Varies CMC slightly in case of active Counterbalance
    +Consistent beater: you pay 2 mana, you get a 4/5. Done.
    +1:1 in case it is destroyed; ie, minimal card investment

    Cons for running Goyf:

    -Folds to RiP
    -Spell Snare target (marginal, but applicable)
    -Occasionally creates locked board states; ie, goyf vs. goyf, goyf vs. batterskull, goyf vs. TNN

    Pros for running Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    +Double the Stifle effect
    +2-turn clock in a deck that hinges on taking advantage of early game tempo plays; Helps close out the game before the mid-late game is achieved.
    +Tramples over TNN; Negates opposing Batterskulls.
    +RiP proof creature, additional answers to RiP and the like in Trickbind.
    +Additional answers to Terminus

    Cons for Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    -Potentially 2:1 card disadvantage if Dreadnought is destroyed
    -Redundant Stifle effects when Stifle effects are dead.
    -Potentially cluttered hands

    There are more pros and cons for each, but I figured this is enough to get the ball rolling.

    Other variations could be: 2 Dreadnought, 2 Tarmogoyf; 3 Dreadnought, 1 Island; 1 Dreadnought, 3 Tarmogoyf...

    And why this variation of Canadian as opposed to going full Stiflenought? Probably Nimble Mongoose.
    It's definitely interesting. We're less dependent on graveyard hate, but our threat average cmc went from like one to I don't know three or something. We no long have a consistent two mana threat because half the time it might be a 3 mana threat. On the other hand if you have trickbind and they're playing in the blind dreadnaught could easily be counterproof by them thinking "oh I'll just counter stifle" then bam split second slaps them across the face . We still lose to the common removal that you see that goyf would die to swords (12 life does help though ) abrupt decay and Liliana. It's more vulnerable to hand disruption since it's kind of a two card combo. I might try playing it for fun in a few weeks. Currently I'm trying to decide between an 8 bolt delver plan or some other flex spots for a ptq legacy side event with duals for prizes coming up.

  6. #46

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'm glad people like the idea. Time will tell if it is viable.

    @ Contract Killer:

    The avg threat cost, which w/ Tarmogoyf is 1.33...would, with 4x Dreadnought, increase to 1.5 assuming half the time we cast a Nought it is with a Stifle, and half the time it is with a Trickbind. Which, in the world of Thresh, can be a significant increase, but I'd waver not much more than we see with lists opting out of 1-2 Tarms or Mongeese for copies of TNN. Hence, though, a possible configuration being 3 Dreadnought, 1 Island.

    As far as discard is concerned, you are correct, it could be a problem, as would Abrupt Decay. Against BUG and Jund, perhaps 2 Divert could come in from the board to replace 2 Spell Pierce. I'm actually not worried about Liliana (in theory) due to the increase in Stifle effects.

    You are correct about Trickbind creating for a counterless Dreadnought in precisely the situation you described. It used to happen to me in my favor in t1 matches a few years back.

    As far as what to play for your upcoming tournament, I believe the three best variations we currently have available to us are:

    8x bolt plan: Chain Lightning if in a field of Delver, Forked Bolt if facing down numerous Elves and DnT decks

    Bed Deck's 2x Pierce, 2x Snare, 2x Forked Bolt plan (simple, diverse, and effective against a wide meta)

    Or the 2x Pierce, 3x G. Probe, 1x Fire//Ice plan (Best, I believe, for a long tournament by helping ease mental strain and adding confidence in decision making)

    +++++


    Is Spell Pierce really a flex spot? While it is not integral to the deck, I don't think I've ever seen it cut. I've been thinking the deck really only has 4 flex spots.

  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I'd be really really interested in some further tests with the Dreadnought version.

    Btw, a friend of mine used to play that when pre-TNN Folks were The Big Deck. Instead of bothering with Lavamancer and Rough or w/e, he simply slammed down the turn2 Nought and rode it for the victory. No one, and I', 100% serious, no one ever boarded artifact removal against Thresh, so this was pretty poerful sb tactic.
    Otoh, it was before Abrupt Decay. This card changes a lot. Uncounterable is what really hurts. (Not hat Submerge is any better, but at least you may Force it.) I think that for this plan to work, you either need a Decay-less metagame, or Misdirection somewhere in your 75.

    @ all: If you'll try this, let us know how it went!

  8. #48

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by carefulmug View Post
    I'm glad people like the idea. Time will tell if it is viable.

    @ Contract Killer:

    The avg threat cost, which w/ Tarmogoyf is 1.33...would, with 4x Dreadnought, increase to 1.5 assuming half the time we cast a Nought it is with a Stifle, and half the time it is with a Trickbind. Which, in the world of Thresh, can be a significant increase, but I'd waver not much more than we see with lists opting out of 1-2 Tarms or Mongeese for copies of TNN. Hence, though, a possible configuration being 3 Dreadnought, 1 Island.

    As far as discard is concerned, you are correct, it could be a problem, as would Abrupt Decay. Against BUG and Jund, perhaps 2 Divert could come in from the board to replace 2 Spell Pierce. I'm actually not worried about Liliana (in theory) due to the increase in Stifle effects.

    You are correct about Trickbind creating for a counterless Dreadnought in precisely the situation you described. It used to happen to me in my favor in t1 matches a few years back.

    As far as what to play for your upcoming tournament, I believe the three best variations we currently have available to us are:

    8x bolt plan: Chain Lightning if in a field of Delver, Forked Bolt if facing down numerous Elves and DnT decks

    Bed Deck's 2x Pierce, 2x Snare, 2x Forked Bolt plan (simple, diverse, and effective against a wide meta)

    Or the 2x Pierce, 3x G. Probe, 1x Fire//Ice plan (Best, I believe, for a long tournament by helping ease mental strain and adding confidence in decision making)

    +++++


    Is Spell Pierce really a flex spot? While it is not integral to the deck, I don't think I've ever seen it cut. I've been thinking the deck really only has 4 flex spots.
    Currently I'm tossing up either the 8 bolt plan or I might try something like 2 forked bolt, 2 spell snare, 2 gitaxian probe. Spell pierce is helpful, but still not necessary. Pierce is a super dead card against decks like D&T, Fish, GWx, etc other heavily creature based decks. If I do run 3 probe it's going to be with 2 other removal probably forked bolt and then 1 other flex spot either pierce or snare. I do think the main deck currently should have 6 removal minimum due to all the deathrites running around lately.

    More on the new rug delver brew abrupt decay isn't really an issue. I mean that because it already kills goyf so the status of abrupt decay proof threats doesn't change. The only difference here is that they are sinking two cards with abrupt decay which is really bad because we don't have any "card advantage". Depending on testing squelch might be better to mitigate the card disadvantage. The only advantage of split second is using it offensively.

    When we use trickbind for dread naught there's three possible lines of play the opponent has.
    Line A: counter dread naught. This is unlikely unless they know you're running trickbind.
    Line B: don't care because they have removal. If this happens then we're down a card.
    Line C: Try to counter what they think is stifle and get slapped in the face by trickbind .

    Most likely they will take Line B or C and since trickbind does affect C it does make it more appealing. If we look at line B though, and they have removal then squelch is better because it cantrips. The only scenario in terms of using trickbind for dread nought that's better is if they try to counter it. This is still only looking at one aspect of trickbind for the combo portion. Trickbind definitely has it's advantages offensively being our own uncounterable 2 mana pain the ass for the opponent (stone rain, time walk on germ tokens, miracles, etc).

    I tried Divert a bit like 4 months ago when the meta was saturated with UWR Delver. It never really did anything amazing for me then again with the new BUG delver builds it hits a lot of cards in there so it might be worth a shot.

  9. #49

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @ Contract Killer

    I can't tell you how excited you got me w/ the Squelch suggestion...

    Until I remembered it can only target activated abilities...

    Otherwise, that would have been far and away the better choice over Trickbind.

  10. #50

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by carefulmug View Post
    @ Contract Killer

    I can't tell you how excited you got me w/ the Squelch suggestion...

    Until I remembered it can only target activated abilities...

    Otherwise, that would have been far and away the better choice over Trickbind.
    ah that sucks. I just suggested it because some of my friends playing modern had invested in it a while ago saying it was modern's stifle for two mana that can trips. How is that in any way shape or form stifle if it only hits activated abilities ??? That's what I get for not RingTFC lol

  11. #51

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer View Post
    I'd be really really interested in some further tests with the Dreadnought version.

    Btw, a friend of mine used to play that when pre-TNN Folks were The Big Deck. Instead of bothering with Lavamancer and Rough or w/e, he simply slammed down the turn2 Nought and rode it for the victory. No one, and I', 100% serious, no one ever boarded artifact removal against Thresh, so this was pretty poerful sb tactic.
    Otoh, it was before Abrupt Decay. This card changes a lot. Uncounterable is what really hurts. (Not hat Submerge is any better, but at least you may Force it.) I think that for this plan to work, you either need a Decay-less metagame, or Misdirection somewhere in your 75.

    @ all: If you'll try this, let us know how it went!
    There's always Divert, that card doesn't see enough MD or SB play IMO considering every serious deck in the format has targets for it except Elves. I just really want to play Divert tho', so I may be a bit biased.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Hey guys,

    The last two weeks i tested a lot with RUG Delver, and i really have to say that my sb is getting always more and more red. The most MVP has been Sulfuric Vortex. I can't tell you how good this card is against all the miracle, dnt, and all the other control/SFM decks. It solves a lot of problems like Jitte, batterskull, sword of light and shadow and all the lifegain. I know it makes their dacay also a little bit better, but hey, its better if it hits the Vortex than a delver or goyf.


    The other thing i would like to say is, GO AND PLAY THOSE PRICE OF PROGRESS.God, this card is sooo good. I mean, 8 dmg and more for 1R ? Okay i'll take it. I know on the first it bites itself with our plan to screw them but if in the early game something goes wrong, like you don't stifled the fetches, wasted them out this card can forget this and bring you back in the game and put them under real pressure.

    Izzet staticaster, is another card i want to bring in for all those dnt, elves goblins. It handles almost everything and has flash+haste+a 0/3 body.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Greetings.
    Last edited by index; 03-30-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  13. #53

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Played in our local tournament, went 4-0-1 and reached 2. place.

    My list is a bit more unusual, mostly because of budget (posted it in the old Canadian thread before) :
    4 Delver
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    2 Tarmogoyf
    1 Vendilion Clique

    1 Dismember
    1 Forked Bolt
    1 Izzet Charm
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Spell Snare

    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Ponder
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Wasteland
    2 Tropical Island
    4 Wooded Foothills
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Steam Vents
    1 Breeding Pool



    //Sideboard
    SB: 1 Flusterstorm
    SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
    SB: 1 Sulfur Elemental
    SB: 2 Pyroblast
    SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
    SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 1 Destructive Revelry
    SB: 2 Submerge
    SB: 2 Rough
    SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle

    Played against: Sneakshow(2:1), Dark Maverick(0:2),Painter (2:1) and UR Burn (2:1)

    Mostly really nice matchups to play against, Maverick is hard as always, especially with -2 Goyf.

    Highlights: Fun to play (no Nemesis)
    Match against UR Burn (really funny and nice opponent and all 3 Games were really close)
    Another guy telling me that I would play the deck quite good :D

  14. #54

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @ Final Fortune:

    Divert was briefly discussed above; I believe it has the most merit coming in against BUG variants (whether or not on the Dreadnought plan), particularly BUG Delver, due to the high rate of targets (Discard, Counterspells, Abrupt Decay) and their relatively high number of permanents (usually 14 creatures + 2 Liliana ensures something to Divert an AD to).

    @ Index:

    Sulfuric Vortex was played much more last summer when Stoneblade was on top of things. If one's meta is full of Miracles and Batterskulls, it is indeed a fine choice. Price of Progress has also been played by several of the members of this forum to good impact.

    It is interesting: While Green is our most important secondary color maindeck (2/3 of our creatures are green), Red constitutes our SB to a large degree.

    The staticaster is a great idea...and having Flash really helps with regards to it being a 3cmc card.

    @Blitzkreuz

    Well done! A note: I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure tournament results are dictated as (Wins-Losses-Draws) so I believe your record, based on provided information, would be 3-1-0, not 4-0-1. If there was a bye or win you forgot about describing, that would take you to 4-1-0. Of course, if there is a "0" in the draw column, it can be left off.

    Do you have a second Vendilion Clique you could play, instead of the Izzet Charm? I understand the Clique isn't very cheap itself, but I'm trying to think about improving your threat density. Cheaper-than-Goyf options include: Snapcaster Mage, Second Vendilion Clique, True-Name Nemesis, and Grim Lavamancer. The Lavamancer in particular may be good for your field if there is a lot of Dark Maverick and such.

    @Thread:

    On the 8 Bolt version, what would happen if we replaced 1-4 Tarmogoyf with 1-4 Snapcaster Mage? There was a period when I was down to 3 Tarmogoyf and I was playing a singleton Thiago in addition, and being able to replay burn to 2:1 opponents on the block or to End-of-turn Snapcaster, Bolt, then swing for the win was a fairly common play, even on 1 Snapcaster.

    Since the 8 Bolt plan exists to either increase removal or go over Batterskull and True-Names before the game gets away from us, ie: games where Tarmogoyf doesn't pull as much weight, maybe moving to a veritable 9-12 Bolts is the way to go?

  15. #55

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @carefulmug

    I got a bye, too, I just didnt remember the word and hoped that noone would mind / was too lazy to search for the word.

    I actually like playing with only 2 Goyfs, would go up to 3 if I feel like spending money for it, but I like the +1 flexible cardslot I get. Of course that's just my oppinion but it fits my playstyle.

    Of course the 2 shocklands are budget, too, but in fact I mostly never even care. They hurt in about maybe 5 of 100 games. Sure it feels bad too lose then, but then again I safe ~120.

    BTW I even won a snapcaster as price and thought about putting it in. Maybe instead of Clique and moving Clique to the SB for matchups, where I really need creatures

  16. #56

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    @ Blitz

    I used to play with a Steam Vents/Breeding Pool, too, and I agree, it's usually a non-issue, particularly because our lands are typically fetch land and provide us with our duals anyway.

    I also used to play with 11 threats. It is a meta/play call, you're right. In fact, I remember seeing a list a couple years ago that played 2x GSZ and 2x Snapcaster instead any Tarmogoyf.

    Personally, even at 12 threats, I find many of the games I lose to be games in which I can't land a threat or keep it in play.

    Nonetheless, how do you feel about Izzet Charm? In what situations does it perform better than a cheaper version of what it already does? How often is the mana cost worth more than having another forked bolt, spell pierce, or a singleton faithless looting?

  17. #57

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    I havent done enough testing for that, but eveytime I drew Izzet Charm, I was always happy. I tried Fire/Ice in that slot too, or another Spell Pierce or Snare, but in the end I always drew Fire if I needed a Counter and a Counter if I needed burn, so all in all, it was ok. The higher mana cost never mattered, but then again I didnt drew it against SneakShow, where it would actually matter.

    But for specific situations:

    Against UR Delver I had 2 Wastes in hand and already 1 in play to use against Price of Progress (He never fetched Volcanics, so I really didnt need them) and had no Brainstorm or shuffle effect, so the looting effect was really nice. In the end I needed to pitch it to force so I couldnt cast it, but nonetheless it would hae been nice to use that mode.

  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    My congratulations to Blitzkreuz, esp. seeing how you played with a kind of a budget deck! Well done!

    I'm considering the Izet Charm. My main concern are those two mana, moreover both of them colored. As much as I love to FB opposing DRS/Delver, it's quite annoying to draw burn against combo or control. I even think that the looter part of charm may be good in specific situations, like when you need to get away the chaff from BS or feed the Mongoose. In a more open metagame (aggro, combo and control equally balanced) it might be better than FB or F//I. While FB is perfect for DRS and DnT/Elves meta, and Fire//Ice shines in Elves/Goyf field, Izzet Charm seems to be very good overall tool. But as I said, my main concern are the two mana symbols in the top right corner, and as my metagame is full of DRS, I'll stay true to the Forked Bolt for now.

    In other news, I finally have the last necessary cards, the Volcanic Islands. They are two, and they are Unlimited, so here's a special song only for them.

  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Maybe I dont have such a problem with the casting cost because I run Izzet Charm in my Tarmo Slot. So I still have the opportunity to go 2 FB as 2 off one mana answers

  20. #60

    Re: [Deck] Canadian Threshold (aka RUG Delver, Tempo Thresh)

    Quote Originally Posted by carefulmug View Post
    This is an idea I had a few months ago but never pursued. Curious what the thread might think of this:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Stifle
    4 Trickbind
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce

    4 Ponder

    8 Fetch
    6 Dual
    4 Waste

    Essentially, -4 Tarmogoyf, -4 Flex spot, +4 Dreadnought, +4 Trickbind.

    Pros for running Goyf:

    +Varies CMC slightly in case of active Counterbalance
    +Consistent beater: you pay 2 mana, you get a 4/5. Done.
    +1:1 in case it is destroyed; ie, minimal card investment

    Cons for running Goyf:

    -Folds to RiP
    -Spell Snare target (marginal, but applicable)
    -Occasionally creates locked board states; ie, goyf vs. goyf, goyf vs. batterskull, goyf vs. TNN

    Pros for running Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    +Double the Stifle effect
    +2-turn clock in a deck that hinges on taking advantage of early game tempo plays; Helps close out the game before the mid-late game is achieved.
    +Tramples over TNN; Negates opposing Batterskulls.
    +RiP proof creature, additional answers to RiP and the like in Trickbind.
    +Additional answers to Terminus

    Cons for Dreadnought//Trickbind:

    -Potentially 2:1 card disadvantage if Dreadnought is destroyed
    -Redundant Stifle effects when Stifle effects are dead.
    -Potentially cluttered hands

    There are more pros and cons for each, but I figured this is enough to get the ball rolling.

    Other variations could be: 2 Dreadnought, 2 Tarmogoyf; 3 Dreadnought, 1 Island; 1 Dreadnought, 3 Tarmogoyf...

    And why this variation of Canadian as opposed to going full Stiflenought? Probably Nimble Mongoose.
    Have you considered: minus some # of Trickbind and plus a # of Vision Charm? It's one mana cheaper. It allows you to save Dreadnought from Abrupt Decay and its own trigger. It fits the tempo plan by changing opponent's land type to some difficult to use color provider for a turn (best done during their upkeep), and fuels Mongoose, putting 5 cards in gy at instant speed. I used to run a BUG version similar to this build and the surprise factor of VC was a lot of fun, especially the stunted time-walk effect of making their mana useless for a turn.

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  1. theMonster